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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2002 : 23:13:42
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| RJ, I am humbled by the detail of your explanation. Can I suggest something? Could you / would you start a new thread, take your latest post to that new thread - and tell us more? I for one have read a fair bit about mold claims, but I haven't worked any; and hence my knowledge of actual mold might as well be limited to my enjoyment of blue cheese. I would really like to hear more about how you apply the principals you talk about and real life mold claim handling. Please and thank you. Anyone else want to twist his arm? |
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Todd_Summers
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 11:14:36
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| RJ, you are right on the money. Mold needs water to flourish. Therefore it will in most cases only be growing on the water damaged material. When that material is removed, so will the mold be removed. However, how do you answer the insureds next question, which is, " What should be done to prevent the mold spores from becoming airborne?". The answer is that certain precautionary measures, outlined by the New York City Health Department Guidelines should be taken by the contractor, including for Level 1 and 2 scenarios (less than 30 sq ft of mold), lightly misting affected area with a 10% bleach solution prior to demolition to minimize particles becoming airborne. For Level 3's and 4's it would be prudent to do a full scale remediation with OSHA gear, space suits, decontamination chambers, containment barriers, dehumidifiers and air scrubbers. Is any of this covered ? Only if the mold is covered. If all that is covered is water damage then the insured will be out of pocket for any remediation, even though it may be necessary to properly perform the repairs. What if the contractor takes no precautions and simply removes the water damaged materials and then the house and HVAC system are contaminated by airborne spores ? Then it would be on the contractor, unless ... Would the adjuster be liable if he told the insured that "by removing the water damaged material, we will be removing the mold" and didn't explain the above precautionary measures that may or may not be necessary? hmmm... |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 11:28:39
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Todd:
You hit the nail on the head.It is one thing to take out moldy items and throw them in a dumpster. It is another to do it the NYC or EPA way. I wanted everyone to spot that one issue. Now, do you take a NW or send a ROR. What are your options? |
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Todd_Summers
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 11:37:30
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I agree with Clayton. I don't think a waiver or ROR is necessary because you are paying for the covered portion of the loss and mold is an excluded peril. I may be wrong.
Further scenario...What if the contractor offered to perform the remediation at an additional charge and the insured refused? Wouldn't that be failure to mitigate? I'll bet there will be a lot of that after a big hurricane, simply because the insured won't want to pay, or can't pay the exorbitant remediation costs. |
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RJ
32 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 16:11:05
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Todd:
Your Question?
“What if the contractor takes no precautions and simply removes the water damaged materials and then the house and HVAC system are contaminated by airborne spores ?”
The scenario addressed by Alan describes a gut situation. With that much water all that is basically left after removal of the water damaged materials is the structure. Once all of the debris is removed an allowance can be made to pressure wash & disinfect the structure under the covered portion of insured’s loss. By the way in all probability the duck work would have been water damaged and would have to be replaced. As far as the HVAC equipment unit goes at the very least it would have to be serviced, cleaned & disinfected if not replaced.
I will say it again once everything is addressed properly in this water loss mold becomes a mute point, air borne spores or not.
If Alan would have created a different scenario of limited damage of questionable cause and origin then the mold issue would come into play and the adjuster’s approach would be different.
A must to remember is that each and every claim must stand on it’s own merits. Therefore, the adjuster must approach each and every claim with an open mind and have the mental flexibility to adapt his approach accordingly. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 18:00:59
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I hate to be such a nag...but I learned it from my wife.
All you veteran geezers out there that are not completely Alzheimered out will recall that after Andrew, the carriers swore up and down they would never again pay the kind of invoices we layed on their heads. Kiddies, that is what is happening to the mold boys. With mold, the daily rate is actually lower than the earthquake, but it just keeps going on, day by day. They look at the printout and cringe at the money paid and convienently forget that we have saved their rosy cheeks for the past year.
Should Izzy hit the good ol 'US of A, they positively do not want a repeat of Andrew, in terms of our invoices. They have started it with the Crawford deal and see a precedent set. They will push and bully the vendors for a daily rate. They will rant and rave and threaten. They will push cheapness like there is no tomorrow. Your needs mean NOTHING! Your financial straits are not their concern.
One of the disadvantages of being the scout for the wagon train is trying to convince the settlers bringing up the rear that there really are savages waiting in ambush around the next hill. But, since they don't see them yet, they won't believe you, (Gee it's such a nice day, why don't we stop for a picnic.) Well, my rifle is out of the scabbard and my horse is fresh and rested, I'm ready. The time for circling the wagon train and getting organized is now. It's agonna get ugly around here real fast.
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 18:06:56
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Everything in the southern United States is contaminated with mold of one kind or another. The question is whether the contamination inside is greater than that outside, or from one part of the risk to another and whether or not it can be shown that you, as the claim rep, are responsible for that contamination. Responsibility, often as not, will be determined by the dept of your pockets.
Keep subrogation in mind. If an entity other than yourself caused the situation then it will be advantageous to be able to prove or disprove any contentions. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 18:31:10
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Just say no to drugs.
Just say NO TO DAILY RATES.
Like everyone else, I have received those standby calls. I tell them up front, NO DAILY RATES. During Floyd, I made four times what one of my buddies did. He thought the daily rate was okay until he saw what I was making. Know before you go and say no to daily rates.
Ghost: I'm circling my wagons and my buddies. You know everyone wants to go. It might be a good idea to wait a few days on this one. When the cubbard runs bare of experienced adjusters, then maybe they will get their checkbooks out and pay for experience. How many of us left who can remember Hugo and Andrew? You have to pay for experience. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 19:04:13
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I have a "vision" of how the next fair size to larger storm will play out in the southern USA. What we have seen from "9/13 news" and other developments in our industry, have reminded me of different situations from the past.
We can be sure that all carriers exposed to a significant degree in any part of the south, are busily trying to figure out how to avoid the "expense" of mold (not the claim of mold); when the claims will arise from a sudden storm event of some magnitiude.
The details of how it might be done are not clear to me yet, but I do think you will see vendors passing on directives at the storm meetings from the carriers - in what to say, and what to document relative to mold.
I envision a sort of two wave approach to the next major storm. First, as you would be used to prior to say this year. However, I think they will limit adjusters from allowing mold to be part of their estimates - in some way.
I'm certainly not comfortable with the intracies of mold claims, but as RJ explains, if the damaged property from a covered peril (i.e. water) is removed you have basically taken out the mold damage. But where that is not the case, the issue is not clear and as time goes by on these claims the situation will worsen.
I see the second phase, of these claims being dealt as a second wave relative to remaining mold issues and likely the carriers will try and segregate this from the thrust of the "normal" job.
I'm going around in a bit of a circle, but I see the carriers directly dealing - either inhouse or through alternate resources - with "secondary" claim issues relative to the mold.
I agree with Ghost, they will not allow fees to escalate way past historical averages, due to the mold frenzy; they will find a way to take this out of the normal loop. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 19:21:01
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I failed to mention one thing. The CDC Center for Diease Control released a study back in August. Basicly they finaly linked mold to making people sick. That was the one thing missing. Scientific proof and or corelation between mold and illness.
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 21:34:56
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| P.S. To all vendors and or carriers. I came up with a way to beat mold. A way to keep it tied up for at least five to seven years. Highest consulting rates in the country. How much interest can you make in this time frame? How much of it will go away in that time? |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2002 : 09:04:50
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| I agree with Ghost and Clayton--they will find a way to exclude the remediation of mold from our service bill but we still will have to estimate the damages from the covered loss and if the big wind blows, will still make for hefty estimates. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2002 : 00:14:27
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We all subscribe to the adage (or we all should) "Know Before You Go".
BUT, do we all ask the proper questions of those that call upon us?
Got one of these the other day, and responded to the inquiry with the following:
1) Which are the carriers your firm represents?
2) What is the fee schedule for each carrier?
3) What is the fee schedule split, (40/60- 35/65- 30-70- 25-75)?
4) What, if any, part of the milage and photos do you take?
5) How many files are guaranteed?
6) Is there any holdback/retainage, and if so, how much?
7) When do you pay? (Weekly, bi-weekly, monthly)?
8) Please give me some references of adjusters that can be contacted to verify your offer.
Please fax or email the information for consideration.
Guess what, never heard another word. Surprised? Im not.
The REAL IA firms will share information and they know that you know what to ask and are willing to supply the answers. "CAVEAT EMPTOR"
Good Luck out there, you may just need it if you do not KBYG. |
Edited by - katadj on 09/24/2002 00:16:27 |
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Non-Waivers and ROR's
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