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inside man
45 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2002 : 19:42:58
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If any of you guys and gals have never had an oppurtunity to work inside, what was the experiance like?
I have worked several "inside" assignments at different carriers and it is pretty much the same story wherever I go. The independent adjusters work product is horrible for the most part.
Are the adjusters not trained properly? Are they overworked? Do they not care?
It seems for the most part that they just are not experianced.
The bottom line is that they are costing the carriers money -both in the claims payout column and the claims expense column.
The problems are too numerous to mention but include:
-Adjuster does not write his own estimate or runs his estimate off of a contractors sheet and makes it a little higher and says "Pay the contractor's estimate because it is lower than the adjusters"
-Adjuster does not monitor the progress of repairs and 6 months have gone by, the house is still not repaired and the insured is still in a hotel running up the ALE
-Adjuster doesn't get on the roof and takes pictures from the ground and tells the carrier there is no damage and then a bill comes in for a roof repair 2 months later from the contractor. Better yet the adjuster writes a $2000.00 repair estimate for a tile roof from 50 yards away - didn't even get a roofer to help him make the inspection.
Granted some of these problems are partly the fault of the carrier because the inside adjuster doesn't monitor the file activity either so now we have two adjusters that are not doing their jobs.
It's easy to see why the carriers share a general distain for the independent adjuster. It's just plain frustrating folks!
I will tell you though that when a good file does come in, it is very refreshing. I just wish there were more of them.
It seems to me that the big players in the independent world are hiring young adjusters, providing them with a minimal amount of training and then turning them loose on $100,000 fire loses. This says to me that they don't want to hire more experianced adjusters because they cost to much.
Or are they not available anymore???
Maybe some of you can share your inside experiances and have some thoughts on what the problems are. |
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Russ
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 19:57:12
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| I don't know who you work for or how good an Adjuster you are!! I have worked for a lot of the major Adjusting firms and the kind of work you describe does'nt fly!!! Most of the CAT supervisors I have worked for would not tolerate that quality of a product. Tell your Employer to hire a quality Adjusting firm. Look on this site for the Sponsors of this site and you have the "Cream of the Crop" of Adjusting firms!!Merry Christmas to all and a Prosperous New Year to come!! |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 20:13:52
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| Inside Man, your question, or statement, smells a little like BAIT! |
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inside man
45 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 21:10:44
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Russ-
I am not working on storm claims. I am working on daily claims. I would agree with you that for the most part the independent CAT adjuster does do a better job then most daily independent adjusters files that I have had the unfortunate task of "fixing".
Russ, I don't think it is my place to suggest that my employer use any particular vendor.
What sort of guarantee is there that just by choosing a sponsor of this site that quality work will automatically follow? I know there are good vendors that sponsor this site and I have worked for them. But to make such a broad assumption is probaly much the reason that these carriers have ended up with such poor work product. They assumed that they would get good work out of a company with brand recognition and thats simply not the case. On a positive note I can honestly say that I have seen much better and more consistent work out of the so called "Mom & Pop" shops that have 1-10 offices or so and cover 1 or 2 states.
I am sure this is not going to be a popular thread and I have started to post this topic on several occassions and then deleted it because I was afraid it was going to stir up some bad feelings.
Well I still hope some insight will be provided here.
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 22:07:55
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| True statement about the Mom and Pop operations....usually get a better product more cosistently from the smaller shops....just like in motorcycle or auto custom shops.......something about pride in workmanship...product...... |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 00:05:25
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Hey 'Inside', I have to stand up with you in full support of your comments. I have worked numerous times inside a carrier on contract both on an assist basis and a cat center since I became an independent contractor. It was clearly a shock to see what a lot of people put their name to from the field, and total confusion how those files would get through their own vendor supervisors TWO times before they got to me. 'Care less' garbage, both in content and presentation; coverage errors without any inkling of asking any one, simple math errors - on and on. Far, far too much of it, spanning numerous carriers and numerous vendors. Carrier management would rant and rave because I didn't / couldn't authorize the requested payment, and it only got worse when they themselves studied the files in disbelief. Re-inspection programs are another wild eye opener, which exposes the 'operating' techniques of the handling adjusters and by association their vendor.
It is not Russ, Linda and the many others like them specifically that are doing this; but we all carry the same paint spray from the spills of others that don't care and / or don't know. |
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TomToll
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 07:38:16
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Clayton, I agree with your analysis of "don't care/don't know how". I have been in this business, as of January 7, 43 years. Yes, that makes me an old coot. The first prerequisite in adjusting is to learn the meaning of the function and then the ability to carry that function out. The second prerequisite is attitude and internal disposition. Their seem to be too many anomolies in this trade, at this time. Is it related to gender or generation, no, it is related to our current attitudes about who we are and what we really stand for. Our educational system is in a state of demise and will not change until proper parenting occurs. If I did not bring home A's and B's, my parents placed a pattern on my butt. They also encouraged me and explained to me why education is so important, unlike parenting of today.
Same holds true in this profession. Training is insufficient and not required. The vendors are our parents and for the most part, they are failing. The turn em and burn em philosophy will be the final demise of this business. I realize that the vendors and carriers want an Albert Einstein job done on a low budget. For 23 years I investigated aviation losses, both hull and liability. The companies did not hire the company, they hired the ability of the investigator. I had no problem getting work, because I have always tried to take pride in what I do and have always tried to be the best at what I do by educating myself. I see little of that today. I do see bars filled with smoke and adjusters bitching that they are getting taken advantage of. Why are they not trying to research and study to make themselves a better product and person. The human mind is an intricate piece of equipment, much like the PC's we use today. Trash in, trash out, good in, good out. The world today hears nothing but negative commentary in the news media, so why should we be positive. We should be positive because we each are unique in this world, not to be dominated by any other entity other than ourselves. We should strive to be the best at what we do and the work will follow.
Another factor in this business in FEAR. Fear is our worst enemy. We fear if we are uneducated and don't understand what we are doing. We fear we are not going to make enough money to survive in this business. We take low pay storms out of fear that, if we don't work, then someone else will. What is the answer to all these problems, the individual. Only by forced or voluntary education will we become sufficient to become who we should be. We all should take pride in who we are and what we represent.
My two cents worth. |
Tom Toll |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 09:42:57
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I hate to do this, but I have to chime in a little bit. First of all, I have NEVER paid from a contractor's estimate on a storm without first doing my own comparative estimate and it is placed in the file--not the trash can! No one can ever doubt where or why I paid from the contractor's estimate.
I had a difficult time with the Integra-Claim survey reporting too many claims paid from contractor's estimates. Did anyone check the actual files to see if there was a comparative prepared by the adjuster. Those points are not made in their report. So much for surveys without enough information. All that survey proved to me is "not enough information." But the ultimate headline of the report seems to have foot high font that adjusters are just plain lazy. I would hope that is not the "true" result of that survey. But based on that survey, they will try to determine more "mandatory" information blocks to make up for it. Sad.
It is imperative that we educate ourselves and like everything else in life, that education must be maintained. Maintenance is a constant companion in our lives, personal and professional. Yep, Billy got his license but if he doesn't maintain that education, he has a very small target to put on his dart board while he is waiting for the phone to ring for the next storm.
What applied last year may not apply this year. Coverage decisions are made in large by the driving force of the latest court opinion.
I realize that a great many of the carriers feel the only good file is the one in the file cabinet marked "CLOSED". Too bad they don't stay there and are placed in the "reopen" stack. The fact that some vendors love this second stack for fiscal reasons is obvious, however, these should be kept to a minimum--not the norm if for no other reason than a matter of pride of product. How many times have you heard someone say, "I don't care, it's going to re-open anyway--let someone else worry about it." I, as many of you, do care. I put my name on that file and it directly reflects on me as an adjuster and as a person.
Even though we all know that numbers are the driving force on most storms, we need to complete our files leaving no doubt in anyone's mind exactly what we did and perhaps most important, why we did it. If an attorney puts you or someone else in the "hot seat" years from the date you closed that claim, you or someone else should be able to explain what and why.
This all boils down to pride in product and trust me, we are that product and again, we do have direct control over the product.
Adjusters have the best "Go To" place in the world to seek information--CADO! There are hundreds of years of exerience to draw from. None of us can be an "expert" in every field but we can share our expertise with others and draw from the same well when we need assistance. No one will laugh, no one will call you ignorant or stupid, however, you will be if you don't have the good sense you were born with to just simply ask! If some one of our community doesn't have your answer, I'll bet they know someone who does!
Take pride in your product and it will take care of you.
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Edited by - Linda on 12/18/2002 09:52:10 |
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Darryl
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 10:26:16
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My two cents. Unfortunately I feel there may be some truth in some of the detrimental comments made about independents used in inside staff positions. I think some of it comes from the feeling that if an adjuster is a good catastrophe adjuster he is a good adjuster on daily business. This is just a generalization so don't hold my feet to the fire (too much anyway) but cat work is more specialized and often even a good cat adjuster has not been exposed to the myriad of loss eccentricities of daily claims handling. Coming from a background of being a multi-line adjuster and having been exposed to numerous different types of claims I can see where a cat adjuster could develope tunnel vision and make it more difficult to handle daily claims. This being said there are normal handling techniques that apply to all claims and that if followed will allow any adjuster who takes pride in his work to be able to handle the normal claims service office case load.
Darryl |
Edited by - Darryl on 12/19/2002 10:27:31 |
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inside man
45 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 12:57:37
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| (message deleted by poster) |
Edited by - inside man on 12/19/2002 13:13:48 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 13:30:29
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In view of Darryl's comments, followed by those of the 'inside' (which I read, but he has since withdrawn); I guess I better clarify my earlier comment.
My comments were meant to be more focused on what I had seen - from working inside - of 'cat type' work, than IA day to day claims work.
I don't agree with Darryl's comment that, ".... 'cat work' is more specialized ....". Unless I didn't understand that comment, 'cat work' is far from specialized comparatively to Darryl's comment of the ".... loss eccentricities of daily claims handling." Looking at all of Darryl's comments, I don't think he meant to say 'cat work' is more specialized? If I am wrong in my interpretation of that, there appears to be quite a contradiction is his comments.
So many elements of a proper investigation and adjustment are absent from the 'inspect and estimate' process of today's 'cat adjuster' versus the issues faced by someone doing a proper job on a typical day to day claim for a peril other than resulting from one associated with weather. |
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Darryl
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 14:53:08
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By specialized I was trying to be kind but it would be more accurate to say that it only focuses on a particular type of claim and a fairly repetitive set of circumstances and therefore not all good cat adjusters are good inside adjusters.
Darryl |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 18:48:49
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ALSO, the nature of the beast for CAT adjusters precludes their "hanging around" waiting for a burnout to close. CAT adjusters are more tuned to handling a large amount of claims that the carriers want closed ASAP to curtail their losses. It is much more enjoyable inspecting, advising, and then closing a storm claim than handling a daily for a water heater problem or "dented" kitchen counter top. I have done both, I will take CAT work every time. Getting to go to exotic foreign countries, like Florida, or Canada, is also an enviable part of the CAT experience. I would say most CAT adjusters shun inside work.
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inside man
45 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 19:14:05
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A CAT adjuster should take an assignment or two working inside. It gives you a different perspective on your "regular" job working cat claims. It simply will make you a better adjuster just like any new experiances or work assignments you take on outside the norm.
When you do go back "outside" you will produce a better and easier to read file for the "inside" adjuster that will be looking at your file. You will know what he/she is looking for and not looking for in a file.
Don't just limit yourself to working cats and "shun" an inside assignment that might come along when there is no outside cat work available. Plus there's no paperwork to do at night.
Just think...all of this and a paycheck too!!! |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 19:50:11
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Hey 'inside', that is a home run!
I agree fully with your perspective of what can be garnered from exposure to the inside.
Of course, I'm quite prejudiced, having been weaned and raised in a carrier network for a lot of years.
Aside from that, it does open up and increase those 'options' I've been talking about that the independent contractor must avail themselves to - remember the rant - diversity, increased uselfulness, greater value.
There is so much more to see and do without 'blinkers' on. gather the right tools and get at it. |
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Where Have All The Good Adjusters Gone?
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