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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2003 : 16:36:50
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The truth will emerge,after the dust settles, call it disinformation rumors or what ever.
If the adjusters are having trouble with the software, that is not disinformation, its real.
The money paid for these programs deserve support from the dealers. If they are going to make it so complicated at the whim of every carrier, then Tom has indorsed this program in vain. A rock bound version for each carrier would be difficult for any adjuster.
The conflict of this situation comes to the surface when our provider goes to the carrier, our employer and sells a program that we have to pay for, therefore to work we have no option but pay the price and there is no competition.
Xactimate is a fair program at an unfair price, the reason was lack of competition. They have most of the large carriers sewed up. Now MSB is going the same route, courting the carriers at their other customers expense. If we were an insignificant market, I could understand. I doubt the carriers are paying the same for each adjuster that we pay.
This borders on unfair trade practice, since we have no choice in the matter. If the carriers provided the software I could better understand the actions of the software vendors and this relationship with the carriers to get prices up and fees down. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 20:49:22
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Folks with the posts like you have been making on this subject is one of the things that makes CADO the best.
Just because one software vendor is getting the most of the attention does not mean this is a single estimating software vendor issue. From Clayton’s post quoting one of the MSB developers (who is both a great guy and great developer), it is clear this is a great selling point we software vendors can now make since the carriers can receive the loss back in live electronic format. That is the major reason we at Hawkins Research Inc pioneered the XML based Open Standard protocol for the industry.
Not all software developers develop estimating software for the same reasons but one common thread is to MAKE MONEY. The same can be said for CAT adjusters or any other business based on free enterprise.
For some estimating software vendors the estimating software package is their pride and joy and their only means of eating. Other estimating software packages are perhaps looked at more as a necessary evil by their developer/reseller only as a means to move their databases since the use of “pricing books” is being replaced by electronic “pricing books” included in the estimating software packages.
Selling your estimating software mainly to CAT adjusters can cost one his company and more can be proven with a clear example. I am sorry but CAT adjusters are not on the radar screen of most developers following the events that lead to the demise of the hottest name at that time in the adjusting software industry and who was putting fear into all other software vendors.
In the spring of 2001 our company was forced to look at facts that brought about some major consolidation to our industry and we made the decision to focus on the carrier market that was not using estimating software or current estimating software until we could get both cash flow and debt issues in our favor. Our staff and investors are very pleased with the results, which the change in focus has brought to our company by the close of 2002.
Personally I believe a company that forgets those who were there for them from the get-go will in time fail. We are still heavy in the IA market and a portion of that being CAT but our growing base and size of carriers we service provides us financial stability. In fact just this past week we have discussed having parallel estimating versions so we can continue to offer the flexibility the growing IA base of our users require yet be able to meet the more specific product demands coming from our fast growing base of carriers.
Yes, sometimes the suites in the towers make the software decisions but we find the IA’s are still the driving forces in the decision making process even if it is somewhat indirect. Our largest account was the result of selling PowerClaim to a one man office who later sold out and took a staff adjuster’s position with a mid size carrier that was just starting to look at estimating software for all their staff adjusters. Because of the strong endorsement from this new hire the carrier evaluated our software package and purchased it. Flipping off a small account can be costly but it is still taught in some circles and rightfully so. I have seen us close a 50-adjuster carrier account in less time/cost than some single-copy sales but still our best input for improving PowerClaim comes from the IA’s that pull cash out of their own pockets to purchase. Most estimating software is sold by word of mouth even at the carrier level is another reason it is smart in our view to make it easy for independent adjusters to do business with us.
Tom, MSB has never started to leaning towards the big companies because that is the only market they have ever been interested in from what I can learn and see. Again every estimating software package has its own focus. As Jennifer pointed out she had used AccuPro, which was Marshall and Swift’s property estimating software but it was never really sold into the IA market it seems. Boeckh like DDS got it start in the CAT world and initially had a strong following in the IA market. For some reason there did not seem to be an interest by the former owners of AccuPro or Boeckh to keep it current and on the market so now the former DDS engine is used to market the price databases it seems. I have not seen SwiftEstimator so I am not aware of what software engine drives it or what market segment it is geared for specifically.
Tom, Scott said they are willing to work with “individual companies” if they require the ability to add items to the MSB Cost Database but he did not state if this would be the case for “individual adjusters”. The major point some were raising was not only the ability to add new items but to be able to “edit” prices in the shipping database and save those changes on a permanent bases.
MSB is a new animal in the estimating software industry in several aspects in my view. This makes it harder to determine its long-term interest in the estimating software industry. The big unknown in my mind has to do with their ownership. At one time Boston Ventures website spoke of how they invested in companies that could be expected to bring a several fold return by holding and working with a company for several years. Well that is a given with all venture capital investments. It is also a given that venture capital firms typically sell losing investments and winning investments on a prescribed time line and invest that capital into new investments with more future potential. How many more years will Boston Ventures remain interested in investing in MSB?
Another unknown is what happens when three adjusting software packages merge into one. Why were the AccuPro and Boeckh estimating systems permitted to become outdated code wise if they were profitable or if the former owners were interested in the estimating software industry? Why did the DDS investors want to sell if they saw a strong potential for the company? Both Simsol and Xactimate are from the same era as Boeckh and Marshall & Swift yet they are still on the market today in an aggressive way and with current 32-bit estimating systems of their former DOS packages.
In my view there are many more issues to consider when purchasing estimating software than how interested its owners are interested in your own financial welfare but it does have to rank quite high I would think.
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 20:54:29
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| Is it just my fetid imagination, or does it feel like the hobbles are being clamped onto our hooves? I kinda thought the antebellum plantations were now just tourist traps, I didn't know that we would be the new field hands. (Tha's right, Boss. Izza toting thet barge. Tha's right, Boss. Izza lifting thet bale. An, Boss, after the noon dinner, Izza be drivin Miss Daisy.) |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 21:31:34
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Now Ghost, you listen here buster. You gotta sit down and realize that we is a minority. Look up into that big blue sky, on out your back door. If you can stay awake long enough to count just 10,000 stars, mark that as just a small start to how we are outnumbered by carrier claims troops.
Who has the buying power? Who can be sold to, that they need analyzing? Therefore, who is wearing the hobbles?
When you lower yourself down tonight to do your blessings, aside from a good word for me, you be sure to ask the Important One to give guidance to the carriers as they venture down the dark path of Analytics Trail, led without light by high tech wannabes who were weaned from a diet of only estimating system milk; and give thanks that you are still able to drive and nourish yourself as a mere field hand.
Gale, a very nice and informative commentary, thank you. |
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TomToll
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2003 : 23:49:21
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Having had the same concerns, I talked to Scott again and found out that the 6.0 Ver. will allow you to keep the Craftsman database or install the Boeckh database. If the Boeckh database is installed, no changes to the database can be made, if my understanding is correct. I will choose the Craftsmen database so I can continue to make changes in the database and add to it, as many have done.
What comments do you have now, Mr Doom and Mr Gloom and Mr Sales Opportunity.
I did not make this post earlier, as I wanted to see what type of commentary would be made. My guess was correct and the names were correct.
Have a good day. |
Tom Toll |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 06:33:10
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For some, Denial is still a river in Egypt.
Does anyone find it interesting that the MS/B coach doesn't have 'time' to post directly to CADO and answer the questions posed by the many many Players and users of MS/B software?
Then turns around and banters back and forth, in a whispering kind of way, with the MS/B cheerleading squad and then sends the chief cheerleader out, all fired up, onto the football field here as the new MS/B quarterback. Reminds me of a few high schools we used to play that didn't have much of a football team.
Mr.Doom?
Mr.Gloom?
Mr.Sales Opportunity?
Now there's a new positive school cheer. Rah Rah Sis Boom.......
Ghostbuster run put on the Mascot's uniform and Clayton please strike up the marching band.....
(playing "Hail To The Chief" of course).
'Give me an M'
'Give me a S'
'Give me a B'
What have you got?
Rah Rah Sis Boom Yeah!
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Edited by - JimF on 01/07/2003 07:09:00 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 07:28:15
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I'm trying, Jim. But, their thong is to small and the pasties won't stick...
What do we do now? |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 07:44:35
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I think that is where the expression 'getting your knickers in a knot' comes from Ghost. Highly uncomfortable I hear.......
Maybe they have room for you (as well as a uniform your size) on the Xactimate or PowerClaim cheering squads? Better check........
Just remember Ghost: when you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance baffle 'em with your bulls***! |
Edited by - JimF on 01/07/2003 08:16:40 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 08:31:09
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Ghost, turn the floss around, they fit better that way and use a little petroleum jelly to give your stick ons support.
Wooow, guess who is in the band? Its Deloris, yes it is! She's my pizza girl - remember, and she volunteers with her old HS band.
The only problem is, she asked who we all are. Said she heard some grumbling from the Cheerleader chaperone about us. I said point him out, who is he? She pointed to someone past the 50 yard line, and said that's him there with blinkers and earmuffs on, he never takes them off. I asked why, she said she wasn't real sure, but thought it had something to do with only seeing what he wanted to see, and only hearing what he wanted to hear.
Now she pressed again on who we were. I was nervous now, there was no anchovies between us and here we were on the playing field. I suggested the good looking fella to my right who was in some pain from all the walking was Mr. Sales - we called him that because he had vision and always looked for opportunity. I then said the fella to my left with the cap on with all his pins of accreditation proudly showing on it was likely Mr. Gloom - we call him that because he also has vision and continually professed the folly of not properly educating ourselves for the changing environment. Still avoiding myself, I pointed to the phantom I could see near the sidelines, and said can you see the voice of reality over there? She stared for a moment, so I took the opportunity to press closer and whisper - picture your conscious talking to you, that did it; she pointed to a shadow wearing a tight uniform and said that must be him, then she giggled and said he not wearing skivvies, must have a thong on. Then she touched my arm, ever so lightly and asked again what my game name was. I said some call me Mr. Doom, she flinched, but I extended my arm again so she could grab it for support. I said some call me that because I can look down field and see the play developing and its not a pretty picture.
However, as I softly grabbed her hand to walk her off the field, I said they call the four of us "DGS" - Damn Good Sh**! |
Edited by - CCarr on 01/07/2003 08:34:20 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 08:43:27
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Clayton; some might say: the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I can't think of a better group of 'Adjusting Fellows' to hang with, than you, my prophetic, Apocalyptic brothers!
And when they shall die, cut them out into little stars and paste them in the sky, and all the world shall fall in love with night, and no one will worship the garish sun (Shakespeare) |
Edited by - JimF on 01/07/2003 08:59:26 |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 10:20:26
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| The literary abilities of some of our esteemed colleagues are simply astounding! |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 12:33:41
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| Are we being overrun by the enemy or our own troops retreating from the front? If the four horsemen ever give up the struggle we can all put on pasties, thongs and dance to the fat lady's song. Is that 'Her Royal Obesity' warming up now? Naw, thats Clayton, with a rendition of a train song,'The Newfie Bullet'. |
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TomToll
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 13:34:46
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| Platitudes accomplish nothing. Who blames the companies or their reps for not responding to remarks made on CADO. Who wants to be blasphemed for publishing remarks that explain direction or helpful commentary for all. I have always tried to be a positive person and fortunatley tags, Icons, labels and platitudes roll off my back. In regards to IC, we are seeing very helpful changes that far outweigh the data base (problem?) The changes speed up the ability to process the estimate and make global changes. If the vendors and companies want prices to be fixed, that is their prerogative. I have noticed that their bank and their names are on our paychecks. There will never be a perfect estimating system, it is not possible. We are dealing with many different personalities and needs, so it ain't gonna happen. Use what you are comfortable with or with what the vendors or companies want. Be sure you know your program and all its abilities and benefits before going to a catastrophe or branch assist. Would you attempt to fly an airplane without experience? That, again, is their prerogative. And by the way, I don't look good in a cheerleader outfit, my legs are too long and hairy. |
Tom Toll |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 16:24:54
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Well it's been a few days since I had to go looking in my dictionary.
Platitude = a trite or hackneyed remark. Not too close to what I thought it was, and I always thought a 'hackney' was a horse
Blaspheme = talk or write irreverently about sacred things. I thought I better check 'irreverent', and that is not reverent, not respectful.
Anyway, I didn't think the 'talk' was unrespectful towards the mighty vendor corporation, that you so strongly defend Tom. Their focus has changed to the needs and whims of the carriers, that's understandable and a fact of life in the business world.
Their manner of announcing that via a signal emitting from our software is just a small bit of fodder why we are insignificant peons in that picture.
Tom, I am sure Janice has told you many times about the beauty she sees in you. You may have modestly scoffed at that praise as the years unfold, but she has likely then told you beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am sure there are communities where others would gaze approvingly at you in a pleated skirt with lovely long legs - they are one of the trademarks of a quality cheerleader.
You express a quality that we must all try and carry through life, our ability to let 'things' roll off our backs. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 23:04:54
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Guys it is pretty tough times for most everyone. If we knew all of the troubled thoughts behind every set of eyes we meet we would be blown away before we even got to work each day. We are all where we are today because of the same reason. The reason is because of the choices we have made to this moment.
The big surprise to most of us would be how many individuals and companies are hanging over the edge of the cliff holding on to a poorly rooted bush. Some will be rescued and others will drop to their deaths so to speak but a few by pure grit will pull themselves to safety.
Hoping against hope is sometimes all one can do. Wishing that tomorrow will be like a happy day from the past may not do us much good. In line with some of the positive thoughts Tom as posted on CADO in the past we will find that tomorrow will most likely to bring that which we expect it will bring.
Reading the headlines like one in USA Today, “How Wall Street Has Spread Its Misery Around - Bear market has tapped out state budgets, cleaned out consumers and choked of business funding” right before you fall asleep at night is not a smart thing to do in my view. Every depression always has a positive side to it in the way of new products and services that get introduced. Today the seeds of many new corporations are being planted and watered by those that believe in a brighter future.
Unlike in some parts of the world we in North America know that in a few short years must of what troubles us today will have sorted itself out one way or another. Acting instead of reacting is about the only way out of anything short of a wet paper bag.
Products and services come and go but life keeps marching on unless we just quit. Not quitting is a form of success in my book. There are a lot of words piling up on CADO but it is only acting on them that brings any hope that tomorrow will be better than yesterday yet the only thing that counts is what we do in the present, not tomorrow because it never comes.
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Edited by - Gale on 01/07/2003 23:08:25 |
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Integra Estimating Software
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