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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2004 : 12:29:43
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| Demigod, I wish you would just tell them that you decline the job. When you give a dishonest person an outrageously high estimate and they have 2 others that are reasonable and much lower you have just played right into their hand. Now they stick the 2 lower estimates in their back pocket and call their adjuster fuming because he is trying to cheat them and they use your inflated estimate as evidence of that. You really end up doing more harm than good and make a bad name for yourself amongst adjusters when you do that. If you get a reputation in town for writing outrageously high estimates adjusters won't even give you a call. They will just ask the insureds to get more estimates from other contractors and they will stear other insureds away from you before you even get a chance to give them a bid. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 12:33:49
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This friendly banter between adjusters and contractors would not be taking place twenty five years ago. No and it's not because of the internet. It was the outcropping of visionary claim managers of very large Homeowner carriers who initiated a standard on roof claims. The simple practice of requiring thier adjusters to draw a roof diagram with measurements, detailed scopes with unit prices, and leaving a copy with the policyholder. Now this practice is adopted industry wide and allows willing local, and traveling contractors to perform first class repairs for the insurance proceeds plus the deductible amount.
This system will break down today if we as insurance representatives can not find credentialed contractors to perform the work in a first class manner on our scopes and price list for simple roof claims. The three participants must work in harmony on more complex losses. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 14:07:25
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Kile,
Unfortunalty I'm not allways able to tell some one I decline thier job. If they are not interested in letting us to the work for proceeds then they get our estimate. This sound cold but I'm not taking any skin of my back and fielding calls from the BBB as to why I refused to give some one an estimate to make your life a little easier. People are crazy and they think we must give them an estimate, Im not there to argue with them about it, I just inflate it and move on, it's never backfired on me to my knowlage.
But becuase you mention that it could possibly cause you headaches I'll consider more thoughfully the next time just for you kile. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 14:23:49
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| It was just a suggestion from the other side of the fence. Take from it what you will. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 14:45:35
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| Demigod: Why can't you tell people that you are not interested in their job? The BBB would probably respect that. You don't need to tell the BBB why, just that the job didn't fit your company's guidelines. If the BBB presses for a reason, tell them. If the BBB can't accept that a businessman doesn't want to do business with someone who appears to be cheating the insurance company, then that local franchise of the BBB needs to reported to the national organization. You are under no obligation to provide anything to a prospective customer unless you want their business. Acting in the above manner may not win you much love among the cheats of the world, but you will get our respect. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 14:59:25
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Alan,
It's not that simple but mind you it rarely occures that I feel that I need to do it. But here's what has happened in the past to one of my co-works as well as me. We decided not to give an estimate and the home owner goes on this neighborhood vendeta to bad mouth us that we don't give estimates bla bla bla. The thing snowballs through and the orginal story is all blown out of porportion by the time it's a week old. So we just leave the estimate higher and go about our business. Oh ever try damage control on the ass hole home owener the feels it's nessesary to call the local news station becuase he's basically an ass, and feels cuase he's the consumer he's entitled to whatever he askes for.
As for the BBB, any complaint is reported wheather your a member or not. Everything cost's money one way or the other, so don't give an estimate and take chances that they say nothing and if they do you suffer in sales or spend tons of money on legal letters and fee's that get you nothing in return. the list goes on. I make then happy they get thier estimate, and that's just what it is an estimate. It means nothing. |
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kmil579
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 11:30:54
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| I agree with Kile. I am a contractor and I would not give an estimate to a homeowner who has come out and said he wants to make a profit on the job. I had done this one time when I was younger and my conscience ate me up. I keep to the practice of giving an estimate for my work no matter what the outside variables or influences are. I try to be as honest as possible. I wont even look at a homeowners insurance sheet until after I have given an estimate for my work. More often than not I am lower than what the insurance company has paid and if the homeowners gets to keep a few hundred dollars then that is on him. I cant stand however when an insurance company thinks I can tear off, haul away, and replace shingles on a roof for $80 a square. That is just not possible unless the materials are stolen or my employees not paid or short cuts are taken(I wont do any of these). I think both adjusters and contractors have bad apples within their ranks and have been given a bad name because of the actions of few. |
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Kevin Kramer
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 08:18:02
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Makes alot of sense kmil, not only from the way you run your business but also the piece about bad apples. I have known plenty of adjusters who will actually encourage their policyholders to not show their ins. co. est. to the repair company (some of whom with the best of intentions). What are these adjusters saying about their work product by writing an estimate that can't be shared with other industry professionals? I suppose they are trying to assist the policyholder's abillity to make some extra $ on claim, somthing that was never promised in the policy. Adjusters who know what they are doing give the industry a better reputation by writing sound estimates (those that represent the very best chance for total first contact settlement on what is owed) and encourage an "above the table" atmosphere. I insist on it because Cat offices are filled with field adjusters who don't and end up spending most of their time knareled down with reconcilliation problems.
PS - I was never trained to stereotype policy holders are "crooks and liars", much like I would never stereotype someone who goes by olderthendirt as an "Old Salt". My last entry only appears that way when taken out of context. Was merely pointing out how easy it can be to develop a negative attitude that contridicts an adjusters abillity to act as a customer svs agent. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 08:24:33
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kmil,
Your business model is differant then the one I work under. We do not do estimates. And we only leave an an estimate on RARE occasion with that particular home that I already described in a previous post. We are looking for clients that want to do business our way, not thier way.
You and others on this forum will probably take issue with that last statement but oh well. There is nothing illegal or immoral about doing business the way you choose as long as your not breaking the law. Obviously.
Another thing that comes to mind about that particular home owner scenario, is that in many cases that's the one that wants you to do the double invoice scam. Thanks but no thanks, we do the work for what the insurance pays or what we can negotiate as reasonable from the insurance based on the work were doing, not a penny more not a penny less. And yes they all pay the deductable. |
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kmil579
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 10:30:44
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| I almost always look at an insurance sheet after my estimate has been given. If a customer does not want to show me it then I dont really care. My only use to look at it is to assist the homeowner in making sure that the adjuster didnt miss anything or calculate anything wrong.(We all make mistakes) I could really care less what the homeowner is getting payed for the damage as long as it covers what I am charging. I do not price gouge or think that I deserve every last penny that the insurance co. is paying and then some like other companies do. I primarily do roofing and you wont hear me complain about O&I. Demigod, you run your business whatever way you want. I am not saying that my way is the only way, it is just the way I choose to do business. It allows me to service the largest volume of customers while not getting bogged down with arguing and negotiating with adjusters over prices. I have set prices and if the insurance co pays it then fine. If not and the homeowners wants me to talk with insurance co then I will but most adjusters are honest. I am not looking to get rich off a few homes. I am looking to make a living and I do very well with volume. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 12:04:09
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kmil,
I don't know how long you have been posting on forum boards, but it's very easy to read between the lines in your post's. Don't be a hypocrite by saying I can run my business any way I choose, like you don't care one way or the other like you did just a few minutes previous to your last post above and then turn around and attack me and my company through veiled comments.
Please respond to post's here in a constructive manner with good positive input or please don't bother replying at all. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 16:38:12
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I have no problem with an insured showing my estimate to a contractor. The reason that I advise them not to initially is because it's easy to duplicate a mistake when you are working towards a figure. I've done it before. When measuring a roof after looking at the contractor's estimate I did the math in my head as I went along and when I got the same figure the roofer got I just went ahead and used it. If I had measured the roof on my own I would have noticed that the long house with 2 gables on the front actually had 2 different sized gables that were significantly diferent. Because of a large tree near the large one and no tree near the small one they looked the same size. When the roofer went to do the roof he ran out of shingles and had to order 4 more bundles. If I had just measured the roof on my own I may not have made that mistake.
When I reinspect a roof to remeasure I leave the original drawing in the truck and make my own and measure it. Then I calculate it and then I compare the two. It's the easiest way to find mistakes without letting the previous mistake influence you. If I made a measuring mistake and the roofer catches I'm glad to own up to it. It's just in everyone's best interest to take your own measurements and write your own estimate. It protects everyone involved. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 17:26:09
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Kile,
I find that almost ALL insurance estimates are correct when it comes to measurements. But of course we always do our own measurements and basically audit the claim for accuracy and scope of repairs. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 17:28:53
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| I was just using measurements as an example. The same can happen with scope of damages. If you are handed an estimate that is already written and simply check it for accuracy, you may overlook other damage that the first estimator missed. It can happen both ways from the insurance side or the contractor side. It's just better to get two fresh sets of eyes on it than to get 1 fresh set and one biased set. |
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Question, I hope someone can answer
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