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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
 Posted - 04/14/2004 : 12:42:28
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| OK, thanks to all the generous help last month. I am getting a new roof. Now, here's the rub. The insurance doesn't want to cover paying for new drip edge and valleys because technically they weren't damaged. Can the old roof be removed and replaced without damaging the drip edge and valleys? Granted, they may not have been damaged but neither were the nails. I can't remove a roof and reuse my nails but the cost of the nails is in the roof price. Can someone give me a general statement on this issue. The drip edge does not appear damaged but the roofer says it has to be replaced because it will be damaged while removing the roof. Who do I believe, my roofer or the already proven unscrupulous adjuster? Catch 22. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 13:27:13
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. OK:
Bottom line is this. The carrier is responsible for the DIRECT PHYSICAL LOSS, and if in fact, the drip edge or metal valley was not damaged, they do not owe it.
The roofer, if being careful, can remove the roofing materials without damaging the metal work. It may take an hour or two longer, but it can be done.
Check the roofer’s price for the replacement work, and if acceptable, it may be to your advantage. If unacceptable, choose to keep the older materials.
You can also always solicit another roofing price. ( Best option)
Glad you were successful in getting the roof. That has to be a huge Plus for you. IMHO, it may be prudent to accept what you have and NOT push any farther.
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Ron McGuire
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 14:14:18
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| And get a different Insurance Company. |
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 14:18:39
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| I've gotten four estimates and have decided on this contractor. But you may be correct, in that I'll just have to tell him to be careful and not damage the drip edge. But it really is splitting hairs. If the carrier is only liable for direct costs, then why pay for all the shingles? Why not just pay for the ones damaged? Because you can't replace just the individual shingles that were damaged. My nails weren't damaged. All of them will be damaged in the removal process. How much different is it from anything else that is damaged in the removal and replacement process. |
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Todd Summers
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 14:38:01
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I most cases the drip edge, valley metal and vent flashings can left alone. But be aware that if you have plumbing vent flashings that use a neoprene seal, they should be replaced along with the new shingles. The neoprene deteriorates from extended exposure to the elements. Some contractors charge extra for these and some don't. Most reroofing projects are, in fact, performed without disturbing the drip edge or valley metal. Some contractors try to "sell" these as an add-on to increase their profit margin on a job, but the insurance carrier does not owe for this unless it has direct physical damage from the hail. There are scenarios, however that the carrier might pay for it, one for example, is if there are multiple layers and the drip edge was installed over the bottom layers. I have seen dozens of different installation techniques all across the country, some correct and some incorrect. If your drip edge or starter course was installed in a manner which would make trying to save it impractical, then the carrier may pay for it, if it is necessary to get the job done. I'd go ahead and ask, all he can do say is no, and then tell you why.
Dave, although I undertand what you are saying, what's he gonna do? Start stalking her? Or put a nasty little note in the file that leads to cancellation? I don't think so. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 14:58:58
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| Many of the Texas Roofers will replace everthing on the roof; except chimney flashing, and turbo or turtle vents. I can,t recall the drip edge question in years. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 15:04:33
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| I believe 30" ice sheild is better in valleys than metal; any disagree? |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 15:28:12
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Ice & water shield in the valley is appropriate, and normally installed when you have the conditions of Ice and Snow.
In Louisiana, there is a very limited amount of this and Im not sure if they normally use the product in that area. (Perhaps Kile can enlighten us).
Ice & water shield is also becoming a code requirement in many areas of the country, so the policyholders with L&O coverage will benefit for the product.
In the far north, they require it six (6) ft up the eaves in some locations.
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 15:42:39
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Ms. Gray,
In response to your question above regarding just replacing the individual 'damaged' shingles, that is a common and quite acceptable method of repair. It is strictly a cost-analysis approach in which test squares will be marked on each slope and a count made of the number of shingles damaged in that 10' by 10' area. That count will then be extrapolated over the number of squares on the entire slope for the projected number of individual shingles to be replaced. Naturally the cost of each individual shingle being replaced is quite high to allow for the labor involved. Most carriers have a established point at which the cost to repair is weighed against the cost to replace and the decision is reached on which way to go. From my personal experience that # was at 6-8 hits per square. More than that and I replaced the entire roof.
As to the valley issue, did you have open or closed valleys and is the roof composition or wood? Those questions could have had an impact on the damages sustained and decision not to replace.
You are a classic example of the adage that an educated consumer (in ANY avenue!) is in the best position to be protected. Way to go! |
Kevin Hromas |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 15:43:41
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In fact snow and ice guard may be REQUIRED depending on the area where the insured lives. If required, it should be installed three (3') in from load bearing exterior walls. I have always included drip edge and plumbing jacks on roof replacements, as these are items that almost always cannot be removed without damage. In addition, if the turtle vents or turbines were dented it would be in the interest of the insurance company to replace them as they are an indicator of hail damage for future inspections.
I advise you to tell, not ask your roofer that these items MUST be replaced and handled within the scope of the insurance settlement. If they cannot or will not, get a few more roofing companies to come out and give you their price to do this work.
As for the valleys, you can go with a closed (California) valley or stay with the metal valley. If the roof is being replaced, the valley should also be replaced.
Sounds like you are still dealing with an inexperienced adjuster ...... sorry about that ..... hope any insurance company personnel reading this can understand "retention rates". If you have been paying your premiums (pretium periculi) in good faith, then the claim should be settled in the same manner.
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 17:33:44
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Our friend lives in extreme southern Louisiana. If you asked a roofer there to use ice shield he'd look at you like you were from the moon. I haven't ever seen it used and I don't even know where a roofer in southern Louisiana would get it. He'd probably have to special order it.
The whole valley and drip edge thing really sounds nit-picky to me. I've always been told to replace it whenever paying for an entire roof. |
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 17:57:55
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Kile, nit-picking from my standpoint or the insurance carrier? If the ins. adjuster refuses, I'm going to tell the roofer to do the job w/o replacing the drip edge and valleys and see if he balks. If the price the roofer quoted was including all the peripherals, then he should just take the amount the ins. is giving per square if I don't want it. And he has already acknowledged that the per square figure is right on what he would charge. If he says you can't do the job w/o replacing it, then there are two other vendors willing to. Competition is a wonderful thing.
BTW, ice shields????? Ice is what we put in our ice tea. [8D]
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 18:27:56
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| I think it is nit-picking on the part of the adjuster. I've replaced lots of roofs and I've always included tearing everything down to the bare wood and starting from scratch. I know not all roofers do it that way but I always pay to do it right. |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 18:30:40
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Tukernotis .... Make sure that you are getting the same weight (grade) of shingles back on new roof as are being removed from old roof. Also, if you are in Louisiana, you may want to consider a shingle with mildew retarder if your old shingles did not have same. Kile can probably advise you on this as he is a native Son. In most areas of the US the roofers will completely tear off and replace the ENTIRE roof, including all penetrations, for the per square insurance settlement.
You can go to Home Depot and get the shingle costs in your area for the type of shingle you have on your home. If uncertain, take a sample with you. Some of the other things the insurance company should be paying for are dumpster or dump fees and permits (if required), steep charges and/or two story charges if either apply to your dwelling.
And last, but not least, do not feel like you are nit picking. You have paid for the insurance service. they should not be nit picking, that is what Kile was saying.
PS: Enjoy your ice tea. |
John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 18:47:15
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| I want better shingles than what they have at the local HD. Settled on Elk archetectural shingles which are actually a little better than what we have. 30# paper too. I chose Elk over GAF just because of the extra wind load guarantee. Don't know if it's any better than GAF but it was all the same price. Don't like OC at all. Everything here is mildew resistant. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 22:54:07
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Correct me if I am wrong, but the only state which requires ice and water shield by code is Minnesota.
I await those who can enlighten me to more recent changes in state building codes in other states requiring ice guards. |
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Roof being replaced, other charges.
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