| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
 Posted - 11/22/2003 : 14:24:16
|
This thread is for the discussion of roofs and safety.
Speaking of roofs, my driving around the south and central Texas area finds that the developers are building houses in the new subdivisions with roofs that are not meant to be climbed. Steep, cut-up, mostly two stories. The old days of the accessible 4/12 ranch style house roof have been gone since the mid-1980's.
Increasingly, I am of the opinion that a preferred way to investigate these roofs are with a truck mounted crane and lift bucket. Our safety is now, more than ever, being compromised by inherently dangerous roof designs.
I believe that a revolution in a safe work environment for our industry is due. I anticipate that OSHA will be taking an active interest in the work practices of the insurance industry and their vendors with regard to this topic. And, for one, I consider it a time overdue.
|
|
|
ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 17:52:50
|
| Two minutes for safety, that's my motto. |
 |
|
|
GRoos
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 20:29:31
|
| What I remeber is being on CAT Duty in Dallas for the Hail Storm in 4/03, and doing those two story, 12/12, and cut up roofs. I felt like a tight rope circus preformer. Thank God for Cougar Paws!!! Of course all of my clients want roof diagrams. I remeber sitting on the ridge cap of one of those roofs for over 2 hours. I had a bandana because I did not want to drench my diagram. There is no way a carrier can pay me for that assignment. Besides being scared to death, it is almost impossible to do more than 2-3 claims per day. All of the adjusters were going to the appraisal district website to look at the risk as to budget their time accordingly. There was a time when I was a staff adjuster that I could do 18-20 claims a day (including paperwork). To add insult to injury, it is almost impossible to recreate the roof on Integriclaim. One of the carriers I worked for only paid $300 on any claim in excess of 10k. CAT Rates, got to love them... |
Edited by - GRoos on 11/22/2003 20:31:29 |
|
|
|
jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 05:40:08
|
GRoos,
I can only assume that you climbed 12/12 roofs with more safety equipment than a pair of Cougar Paws.........If you did not, then please let me send you a Dollar for a lottery ticket to be purchased on my behalf......Please return the lottery ticket prior to your next adventures in roof climbing..... |
|
|
|
ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 12:03:32
|
My hat is off to anyone that "could do 18-20 claims a day (including paperwork)".
In fact when you schedule a class or just On the Job Training I will pay to be a student. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 13:49:55
|
| That is pretty good. I have a hard time working as a 2 man team and getting 12 done in a day and that means paperwork until 11 everynight. If you can do 20 by yourself that would be impressive. |
|
|
|
Steve_One
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 18:56:21
|
How about getting the insurers to make it a requirement for the insured to get diagrams, pictures, etc as part of their (the insured) proof of claim under the terms of the policy for them to prove thier claim.
It seems we're spending a lot of time and potential liability to help the insured prove their own claim, has anyone read the policy? It seems the burden is still and always on the insured to prove the claim, not us!
Maybe if we focus on what we're not going to do, instead of trusting what we're told to do, we ALL might be stronger!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 20:57:24
|
Very good point, Steve One. Actually, the growing trend is to reverse the concept of consumerism and the adage that the 'Customer is always right'. Here in Texas, this reverse-consumerism has already manifested itself in the Homeowners insurance world in the form of Allstate and Liberty Mutual wanting the Insureds to prove their house is worthy of having an insurance policy by obtaining a Certificate of Insurability thru the Texas Dept. of Insurance's, Texas Voluntary Inspection Program. Also, Farmers is requiring their own proprietary form called the Property Inspection Survey on Risks that are over 30 years old or if they want mold coverage. Both of these programs require the Insured to pay the inspection fee.
The irony is that, just like in claims where the customer has to prove their loss, now the customer has to prove they are worthy of being customers. And, it is a lot safer not having to try and climb those two story cut up monsters, also. |
|
|
|
william s cook
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:09:37
|
Once again my training conflicts with the learned posters participating in this forum. It appears that adjusters are of the opinion that the insured must prove his loss to an adjuster or insurance company. I opine that once the insured files a sworn proof of loss along with his available supporting documentation, for anything or for any amount any burden of proof then shifts to the insurers to accept the proof and pay the claim or reject the proof of loss with documentation to substantiate the rejection in part or in total. Perhaps I have overlooked some first party policy language that spells out the duty to prove a loss rests with the insured. This subject is off topic for safety issues and should be moved to a new heading if the burden of proof subject rises to further discussion.
William S Cook
Public Adjuster |
Edited by - william s cook on 11/24/2003 08:10:59 |
|
|
|
Steve_One
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:50:19
|
Mr. Cook,
I support your comments regarding the insurer either accepting or rejecting the insureds proof of loss. However, the proof of loss with supporting documents are on point with regards to an adjuster being unsafe while attempting to exercise their rights to verify the good faith submission of the insureds proof of loss in order to make the determination as to weather to accept or reject, or request additional information from the insured in an effort to find every way possible to honor their claim.
The mere submission of an ex parte document (proof of loss) does not terminate the insureds responsibility to "prove" their claim/loss. If the insurer, in an effort to better serve the insured, can modify some of the means to safely and accurately find ways to approve the insureds claim, without the continued exercise of putting adjusters in harms way, I feel it certainly belongs on this post.
|
|
|
|
trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:50:27
|
| I concur with Messers Cook and Steve One. My take is Texas will never revert back to "A Texas form" and the present insured perils are straight foward enough for AN EXPERIENCED ADJUSTER to conclude with a single inspection, with explanation. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:52:49
|
| Of course the burden of proof lies with the insured. You can't prove a negative so if there is no covered loss that can't be proved. Only an actual covered loss has proof that it exists. Follow the money, no one ever tried to prove that they owed ME money. The one recieveing the money is the one who always has to prove that he is owed it. |
|
|
|
ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:19:33
|
| Ghost, as you are the acting "Hall Monitor", please create a new thread. Proof of Loss, as a subject, is a deep subject and cries out for a new thread. |
|
|
|
danguyer
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:25:32
|
It is very important to use the proper equipment on steep roofs. Don't be a hero!! It's not worth it. I would suggest to contact the carrier and advise that a roof is too steep to gain access in order to obtain a good diagram and photos and proper equipment is needed to inspect the roof. Put the ball in the carrier's court. They will advise you if they want to pay for an equipment charge to inspect the damage. Make arrangements to inspect steep roofs at the end of the storm. Ask the insured if they have a steep roof before going out to inspect it. I would suggest to inspect the accessible roofs first which maximizes your productivity.
Another issue I have run into in northern Minnesota is snow and ice on roofs. I have received hail claims in Nov. and Dec. from overflow claims and have had to diary files until April 1. We received 11" of snow yesterday and this snow is here to stay. It will be impossible for any adjuster to inspect a roof up here until at least mid March because you can't get good photos. I have seen dumb adjusters try to inspect those roofs and have fallen. I was one those people.
SAFETY FIRST!!!! |
Dan Guyer |
|
|
|
Darryl
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 11:26:35
|
Safety is always paramount, don't let complacency creep in. As always my short safety info & quiz is available upon request.
darrylm@worleyco.com |
Edited by - Darryl on 11/24/2003 11:27:39 |
|
|
|
bradobannion
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 14:40:07
|
Does anyone have a good lead on where to purchase saftey gear? Harness, ropes, lanyards, d-stops, things of this nature?
Eventually, I'll be able to head back out and I won't let this happen again. |
Brad O'Bannion
512-787-3363 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Safety and roofs
Forum Locked
