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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 02/29/2004 : 22:04:11
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| I'd rather use my Remington 1100 loaded with #8 shot. I think it would be much more effective and pose far less danger if you missed. |
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tiw30
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 23:05:41
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| I don't understand. The comparison would have to also include what the file requirements for each company would be, and how organized is the operation? Not to mention that the same fee schedule for the same company could be better or worse depending on the type of storm or the damaged that was caused. This of course, meaning a component fee schedule and not daily or hourly work. I understand that some schedules are better than others on paper, but alot of it depends on how good the independent adjuster is. Even on a not so great fee schedule, an efficient adjuster can make money. However, I am still interested in seeing what the schedule is for companies other than SF, USA, and FMRS. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 23:28:08
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Remote technology to photograph roofs will be a while arriving but the wages paid humans will continue to decline. This weekend I was reading an article that said since 2001 average wages in US fell from $44K to $35K but I do not remember if that was just in the tech field or not. As labor continues to make higher and higher wages at some point the old saying, "What goes up must come down" comes into play.
Several have called me crazy, especially some of my competition for cutting the price of adjusting software by as much as 60% for no apparent reason. Outsourcing cut the price of the PC’s by 90% over the past 20 years and even a Kentucky Hillbilly could figure out in time it would happen in the software industry as well, especially in a niche that was already over priced relative to other segments.
Just last week a large company stated they were outsourcing 15,000 software development jobs. When you look at the number of software development related jobs going to India, Eastern Europe, etc each year for the last several years it should serve as a wake-up to all players in the industry. In fact I think it was Romania perhaps where Ez-Bid was converted to a Windows program for like $20K if I remember correctly what Sid Morrison told me at a tradeshow a few years ago. Globalization has been a catch phrase for a many years but the reality of it is just sinking in for many of us. 15,000 developers being dumped into a smaller job market is not going to raise the average salary very much. :(
When a $20 per hour job leaves and is replaced with a $10 or less job it means that person’s homeowner’s insurance has just effectively doubled. Now they shop price more than ever. The sad part is some $40 jobs are being replaced with $10 jobs. The 50-year-old factory worker making $30 - $40 per hour with no more than a high school degree may be lucky to find new employment for $10 per hour after his job is outsourced.
What if you are a CAT adjuster that is doing better than just feeding yourself and one day it was over for good for some reason? How much could you make per hour after looking hard for six months?
While that are a few CAT adjusters bragging about making amounts many times of my salary but I do know most all that stay busy make more than I do. In time I can expect to make more but at least I do not have to be concerned about outsourcing like others in the technology industry. Clients respect you more if they see you are not drawing more blood than required to keep you a healthy vendor. There is a fine balance between earning enough or too much. Equilibrium must be maintained when riding a bicycle or you will be in a big hurt. Equilibrium must maintained in wages or you will be in a big hurt.
When we were in the computer hardware business we learned it was hard to adjust to very low margins after experiencing very high margins. Since it was clear after research that in the future the average price of adjusting software was going to be closer to $500 than $1500 a year we took our 60% income cut upfront knowing full well we could fail because of it.
My thinking was I had rather fail now than to once again get addicted to high selling prices to only once again see a 60 percent decrease in the price of what I was selling. Now that we have beat the odds and have learned to feed ourselves selling our software for about 40 cents on the dollar we can get excited about our future. We also find being on the hungry side enhances our desire to see our users as our bosses instead of the other why around. :)
RV’s post about vendor profits raised a question in my mind. Could not a vendor come along that was willing to take a few million less in profits each year, say by the amount of 20% of total income and pass 10% of that forward to the adjusters and pass the other 10% indirectly to the carriers in the form of lower charges for services rendered?
Deflation is a real thing and not a bad one either. It just calls for a different mind set to enjoy. Many IA’s I know working for more aggressive firms claim to be making $75K+ and sleeping at home most of the time. What if they decided to take $10K annual cut in pay that was fully past on to the carrier through lower fees being charged by the vendor that employees them. In turn the carrier passed the savings on to the insured. It would be like a little pay raise back to the adjuster that took the $10K pay cut and to a lot of other homeowners.
We have deflated the price of adjusting software but it will take years for the full effect of our efforts to be enjoyed by all carriers. It has not been easy but I felt it was better than being outsourced. By the way outsourcing can be your job being giving to your next-door neighbor because she was willing and able to more for less.
There are several carriers using adjusting software that for years were paying the lowest of 2 or 3 estimates from contractors with no easy way to justify even the lowest estimate. Perhaps even more important to carriers is dollars saved by using technology is the ability to develop consistency in adjusting approaches and do data mining. We see most all software vendors are promoting this fact.
What we have done in the adjusting software industry can be done by a CAT vendor I am sure and as far as I know there is one or many doing it today. Until we are forced to think long term and that we might be hurting our future by what we are demanding in the now, we tend to keep expecting tomorrow to be like yesterday except better. While it was painful to see computer prices drop by 60% plus our percentage of margin dropping at the same time when we were in the computer hardware industry it completely changed my way of looking at business.
Someone is always trying to do better job of what you are doing and for less money. You can either be that someone or let another person be that someone. The choice is yours. In business you either break what is not broken or someone else will do it for you and take your business. The Titanic was a business that was short lived because the CEO did not understand its not what you can see that you have to watch but it is what you can’t see that you have to watch because that is what can sink your business over night.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 07:37:15
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Whoa, whoa, gentlemen, please!
John, your interesting post on page 3, has nothing to do with this thread; your post is best related to the "Change on the Horizon" thread or the "Granular Loss" thread. And, Gale's interesting reply should join it in whatever of those threads.
Related to John's post, those by Wes, Mark, and Kile can tag along; as those posts have nothing to do with this thread.
Tom (tiw30), if Roy will do some shuffling, so we can keep this thread focused on its title, I'll give you some thoughts in response to your questions; and I'm sure others will.
By the way, welcome to CADO Tom; it is great to see an adjuster join our clubhouse and sometimes playground. |
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Admin
547 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 09:13:09
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| In order to keep the topic on focus consider continuing the topic discussion by adding additional comments related to the topic. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 10:10:15
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Admin, I am confused by your response, other than it does appear that you are not going to remove / relocate the off topic posts.
Do you now condone off topic posts, with the hope that they will whitewash themselves back to topic focus? Seems tiw30 tried it your new way, without success.
I don't wish to proceed in the manner you have suggested. |
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Admin
547 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 11:37:38
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Here is the deal. As I have stated in the past it is not an easy task to move forum posts. Moving a topic is a one step operation. The only way to move posts is by using cut and paste, of course this does not require moderator or admin status. There will be times that we may not be able to move posts in a timely matter so my suggestion is that in those times the author or visitors interested in the original topic should make additional post related to the topic to try and get it back on topic. This reduces the amount of work required by the moderators and aids in getting the topic back on track quicker. We will move off topic posts as time allows.
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Roy Cupps -
CatAdjuster.org :: Contact\Feedback :: Adjuster Roster :: Current Forum |
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Admin
547 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 11:54:51
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In this case the off topic line is a little gray to me. For example, two posts you report as being off topic reference other posts in this thread that are considered on topic. Moving these posts without moving the referenced posts may cause confusion in the other thread.
Also, if the authors of the off topic posts agree that their posts are off topic then they can help by editing, deleting the content or reposting their posts in a new thread. |
Roy Cupps -
CatAdjuster.org :: Contact\Feedback :: Adjuster Roster :: Current Forum |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 12:19:44
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Just some observations.
The tread is nearly 6 months old and history indicates 60 days is max you can expect a thread to kind of stay on the subject. Just as in any human conversation the subjects tend to “evolve” with time.
The tread is a Vendor Feedback subject but is under General Discussion (a non specific, catch all category).
Editing a thread makes in become nonsense often we know as Roy stated.
When adjusters start talking about shooting remote helicopters with rifles and shotguns to create more claims you know the interest is approaching zero.
That is not to say the tread is not important because it is. Maybe the results should just be compiled in put in a static forum (closed, etc) and just updated by Clayton from time to time.
Old treads will just go south after awhile and should be accepted as a fact of life (yes I watch “Babe” again with the kids) and not something that should try to be controlled because then the entire thread is blown because it becomes a discussion of full control, no control or the “gray” area control thing and perhaps all three are equally bad.
Just my thoughts. I vote we all try to stay on subject but when a tread heads south we just let it go because the subject will reappear the next spring in most cases. :)
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:50:33
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| Tom White’s post from Sunday made a very good point about apple and oranges of Fee Schedule. While I know I was one that helped get this very important tread off track that Clayton has worked very hard to make meaningful, I do think several CAT adjusters must have experiences when they make little money with good schedules and when they many great money with poor schedules that each could share that would be helpful on this tread about Fee Schedules. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 11:54:21
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Well it's Friday again, and not wanting to subject myself to the same wrathful and ignorant abuse as last Friday; I'll make this brief.
A revised survey will be completed as time permits. An additional 58 specific fee schedules will be added to the survey and comparison; bringing the total of different fee schedules included in the survey to 104.
When the revised survey is completed, estimated to be no sooner than late April or early May, it will be sent to those who contributed for the revision or to the original survey. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 20:54:08
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Clayton,
THANK YOU, for all the time and effort expended, on behalf of all participants, in this project. It is doubtful that many can appreciate what you will accomplish, and one can only await the final results with bated breath.
Our CADO caveat of “Know Before You Go” may well be reinvigorated.
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 14:56:06
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It has been a long trail to complete this project, much longer than was imagined as it only now seems to be of benefit to the 26 contributors to the project. As I stated before, I had hoped that this would be a project for CADO, and a possible resource tool for every adjuster that wished to access it.
The revised survey containing 104 different fee schedules is complete, and is a 534KB Word document. It belongs in a public forum for all to consider that wish to review it. Not one of the 104 different fee schedules contained any statement or warning to the effect of, "do not copy", "do not
distribute", "Private", "confidential", or anything akin to that; not one. Therefore, as the survey is just a compilation of the available data, categorized and summarized so as to be an easier comparative read; why can it not be a document for all to access within CADO?
The Table of Contents sets out the format and body of the report as follows:
Identifying the fee schedules used (page 3)
Explanations of abbreviations used (page 5)
Explanation of "Gross fee computed per $100 of Gross Loss" (page 6)
Explanation of "Fee schedule comparative summary" sheets (page 7)
Fee schedule comparative summary at specific price points (page 8)
Charts illustrating comparative summary at specific price points (page 93)
"Top 25" - averaged within various price point ranges (page 95)
Overall ranking of fee schedules - by average median score (page 105)
Survey Addendums:
Day Rate Summary (page 109)
Time & Expense Summary (page 110)
Mileage Allowances Summary (page 113)
Photograph Allowances Summary (page 115)
Telephone Allowance Summary (page 117)
2 Storey & Steep Allowances Summary (page 118)
Vendor Retained Administrative Surcharge Summary (page 119)
Anyway, while the community may ponder the question raised, I'm completing my last bit of data review and re-checking, and preparing my concluding thoughts on the collected data.
Hopefully, within the next day or so, it will be decided whether this is released for CADO access, or only 26 times to the contributors. |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 20:43:36
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| Clayton, I am in high hopes that you will release the informaton you have so fervently gathered for the entire family of CADO. I suggest the information be posted in the registered area only. Bear in mind that if all CADO registered members had sent you schedule information, you would have to send out thousands of private e-mails, (very difficult, time consuming task). It is in the best interest of all concerned that the results be posted for all to garner and digest. Thank you for your effort in assisting all concerned.[:P] |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2004 : 21:14:20
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Tom, perhaps you misunderstood the question I raised, concerning access. I too, am in high hopes that the data can be accessed by all who wish to within CADO. It is a large waste of my time to do this for only 26 other people. I'm fine and agree with having it in the 'registered area', or I'm fine with arduously complying with my agreement to the contributors.
It is in the best interest for all to chew on this survey, that wish to. However, I am at the same Y in the road, as I was upon completion of the original survey. I had no / have no idea how to "get" the report physically into a CADO forum. Because of that, and because of the content, I made ovations in this thread last time for it to be allowed to be put into CADO and if so, how to do it; and I did not receive a positive response from Admin.
It is clear to me, from past communication received from CADO Admin, that this survey was not welcome within the CADO medium, when it was offered the first time. |
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Fee Schedule comparisons
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