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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
 Posted - 01/08/2004 : 11:59:54
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Ben, as Milt and Janice have explained, there is a wide range and scope of fee schedules. Some vendors / carriers have nonspecific schedules to encompass cat work from any peril, while seemingly as many other vendors / carriers have separate and specific fee schedules for identified perils.
"Survey Says" - First, looking at gross loss from $5000 and down, without exception, where vendors / carriers have a peril specific fee schedule; the "highest fees" are for hurricane and tornado losses (even segmented further by some, with the highest price points for the highest category hurricane or tornado), with the "wind" and "hail" peril specific fee schedules the generally the lowest.
This "trend" slowly blends those ends of the scale, as the gross loss increases beyond the $5K point.
The result of that transition, by the time you get to the $50K gross loss point, is that most of the fee schedules that are not peril specific, are now occupying the top 50% of all schedules in the survey at that gross loss point; and the bottom 50% is a combined mixture of peril specific fee schedules.
Aside from "T&E", at the $100K gross loss price point, the noted blend at the $50K mark is still the general picture.
While posting to this thread, which seems to have a renewed interest this week, I ask those who are asking for a copy of the survey to review my November 5th post, particularily; ".... for those that want a copy of the survey, fax or email me a fee schedule that is not on the list, or one with a more current date that is on the list ....". If you review the thread, in the absence of having the survey posted to the thread, that is fair to the 13 people whose efforts provided the fodder to make a survey in the first place. However, I have received more schedules since November, and another spurt this week; including interest from another vendor who wants to make sure his company is competitively represented.
If I can get another 10 or so fee schedules, in addition to what I have received since November 5th, I'll do a re-work and revision at the end of this quarter. If sending by fax, the number is in this thread.
Wouldn't it be interesting if we could somehow relate credible "fee splits" to the schedules? It is easy to see from the survey, that there are some schedules at defined gross loss price points, that are more beneficial financially at 60% than other schedules at 65% etc.
In fact to illustrate this point, there are many instances throughout the $500 to $5000 gross loss price points, where a good handful of fee schedules in the survey, pay more at a 60% split of the fee than 100% of the total fee for a handful of fee schedules at the lower end of that price point comparison.
That depth of difference exists through all gross loss price points, until the $80K level, wherein you would only have to get 90% of the total fee from the lower schedules to equal 60% or so of the split from the higher fee schedules in the survey.
Difficult to imagine people walking the halls of their motel, with fee schedules in hand, working at opposite ends of the noted scale; as indicated above.
Then, if we could create an accurate picture of the "frills" - photos (price per, paid at 'fee split', paid at 100%, etc), mileage details and allowances, insurance provided, or not, and costs; and other identifiable elements of cost that some vendors participate in and others do not. |
Edited by - CCarr on 01/08/2004 13:03:10 |
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Russ
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 12:26:17
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| My philosofy is to trust the vendors I choose to work for to negotiate fee schedules, not only to keep me in work but to keep them afloat. I work for some Small vendors and understand that this is a business and they have to survive if I'm going to survive. The Vendor still makes a % of the fee bill so its in their best interest to keep the fee bills current. The fee schedules are getting smaller and the file requirements are getting more and more. There is still money to be made at the fee schedules of today. My opinion only! |
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Steve H
Switzerland
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 22:25:31
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The cat management families have become millionaires many times over and there are some individual adjusters who have done quite well over the years. But the nation is in a state of consternation over decreasing returns. I doubt whether the profit margin is what it used to be for the vendors, either, since they have higher tech and management expenses now. Labor was abused, then unionized, then outsourced to southern states with right-to-work laws and now to third world countries and nations with no human rights protection.
We are not alone in our pursuit of payment that is in line with that of better days. Companies seek to compete with others that wave the flag, but are not swayed by flag waving themselves. They all cross themselves in the name of 9-11 and then move to China. As wages decrease and opportunities evaporate for professionals like programers and engineers, newbies line up by the thousands to compete for our positions. Lack of experience on their part is compensated by increased management control to assure a quality product. Then we line up to buy Chinese products st Walmart because it's good for us in the short term.
At the end of the day, the deal each of us makes or accepts is up to us, individually. At this time, the offer is still superior to the $40-$50000/yr, 60 hr/wk staff job, in a good year. But only because that staff work week is for 50 wks/yr. At the same time (now), most major insurance carriers are outsourcing what they can to India. The eight ball is gaining on us.
As the public is boiled like a frog into accepting technological solutions in lieu of personal customer service, our position becomes more tenuous. They are educated to accept automated call menus, which prepare them for more impersonal methods and next will come only an electronic link.
An $8/hr ladder climber appears at the door with a flatscreen monitor on his chest and a camera on his hat and an antenna sticking out of his ... ear. Apu's image is on the screen, but he is 12000 miles away. "Good day, Mr Simpson. Ralph here will inspect your roof. I will email an estimate to you and make a direct deposit into your account. If you have any questions, you may call me from 8-5 New Delhi time."
I feel like it may help to avoid feeling like the lone ranger and join our countrymen in getting creative before events force us to do so. I do not have a plan, other than to learn how to drive a truck and take a conversational Spanish class, which will probably not be sufficient. As much as I hate this alarmist vibe, the last Levi plant in America did move out of the country yesterday. What's next? Harley Davidson? I see our fee schedules as just a piece of this mosaic. |
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catmanager
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2004 : 18:17:11
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I have been out of pocket for awhile now, but thought I must add that Mr. Clayton Carr has put together one of the most thorough and comprehensive fee schedule comparisons probably ever done....
I agree with keeping this information close to the vest, as this site is notorious for a lot of readers but a little low on participation. Somehow we must all realize that only if you participate are you part of the solution...
If Clayton agrees to do this again next year, I suggest everyone participate so they can earn a copy of the results...I'd bet everyone that thought they were working for a good schedule would be surprised......
It is amazing to me that some of you allow your profession to drag in the dirt by working some of the schedules you do....WOW, what an eye opener!!! |
Edited by - catmanager on 01/12/2004 18:20:11 |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 09:10:36
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Further to my post of January 8th, more fee schedules have come in to be part of the next survey and comparison.
Please review the fee schedules you have and compare them and their date to the list on a previous page of this thread. If you have a schedule that is not on that list, or that is newer than the date shown on that list; send it in confidence to be included in the revised survey and comparison.
As stated previously, if I get enough participation to warrant a revised survey, I'll do it prior to the end of this quarter; so hopefully it may be of some value in your decision making process come April 1st.
The 1st survey and comparison was comprised of 46 different fee schedules.
Only "you" can cause a revised survey and comparison to be of 90 or 100 different fee schedules.
Fax or email data is in this thread. If you have a 'copy of a copy' that will be hard to read, please mail it; and email for my address.
As before, only 'hard copy' on carrier a/o vendor letterhead or 'branded' paper will be considered.
If you plan to contribute, please do it soon.
All those who have contributed and all those that do contribute, will receive a copy of the survey and comparison. |
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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 17:07:40
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I'm sure glad you're the one doing this.
After a couple of hours of comparing data and formatting the proper spread sheet, I woulda probably just thrown all that stuff in the trash and gone back to work.
Patience.
Just gimme some patience. |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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rorunner_77
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 08:11:56
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| I am a newbie, I applaud this effort and look forward to seeing its completion. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 09:01:28
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Thank you Lynn, and best wishes if your quest is to become an "adjuster".
However, seeing the completion of the survey - if it can't find a place in CADO - is dependent on sending a fee schedule (as per previous posts) for inclusion into the survey.
It would suit me fine, if everyone who wanted a copy, received a copy. But, it is 'enough' for me by the time I've completed the survey, and sent a copy to each contributor. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 08:49:45
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Further to my 2/13 post, I have not received many schedules for inclusion in any possible revision.
Again, it is as simple as only "you" can cause a revised survey and comparison to be of 90 or 100 different fee schedules.
There has been some schedules talked about in the last few days that should be sent, one comes to mind is the 2004 Am Fam schedule.
If enough schedules are sent in the next few days to make a revision credible, I'll start the processes as time permits.
Contact info to send schedules is found in the body of this thread. |
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sbeau4014
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 09:24:33
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| Clayton, do you have a TX wind pool schedule? If not, let me know. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 11:00:00
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Hi Steve, thanks for the query.
I do have the three page TWIA "Adjuster Fee Schedule", I believe it is the 2003 version, but it is undated.
This "schedule" is a good example of how 'one schedule' will provide six different fee schedules in the survey, because of the S1,2,3 and those each split between residential and commercial. |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 13:06:42
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Steve Hochstatter said on Jan, 9, 2004 at 22:25 hours the following.......
An $8/hr ladder climber appears at the door with a flatscreen monitor on his chest and a camera on his hat and an antenna sticking out of his ... ear. Apu's image is on the screen, but he is 12000 miles away. "Good day, Mr Simpson. Ralph here will inspect your roof. I will email an estimate to you and make a direct deposit into your account. If you have any questions, you may call me from 8-5 New Delhi time."
If you will take a look at page 9 of the "Granule Loss" thread of the roofing forum, you will see that this scenario has just transpired. An insured placed photos of the roof on this thread and in effect received an "adjustment". Although this example does not follow the "New Delhi scenario" it does cause us to reflect on the true consequences of our new digital age. Maybe companies will only send out "digital photo robots" to take 50 - 100 photos and someone will sit in the (home) office and make the decision. If we can chase terrorists with UAV's being flown in Afganistan by someone in Florida, you know this is possible. Gee....... wonder what they would pay the "photo robot?"
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Wes
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 16:40:40
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| You can purchase a remote control helicopter with a camera attached at your local hobby shop for a few hundred dollars. Your State Farm office could launch it off the agency roof, fly it over to your home using GPS and inspect your roof and in a matter of minutes you could recieve your estimate and check electronicaly. Apu could do the same thing using a global wireless network. |
Edited by - Wes on 02/29/2004 16:46:58 |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 21:04:27
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| I can see it now, scores of mini helecopters flying back and forth, trying to dodge each other. Occasionally two colliding and going down in flames, hiting homes. Mean while the true cat adjusters are out with 22's carefully shooting them out of the sky. Then we can all do impact by aircraft claims. There is always hope. |
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Fee Schedule comparisons
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