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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2003 : 07:31:27
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| Cat man do, over a period of 20 years t&g decking has a propensity to seperate causing these gaps. When it was installed in the "new construction" phase it was undoubtely a nice tight fit so non nailable issues would not apply at that time. But maybe i forgot to mention the roof currantly has two layers, lord knows how many nail holes the decking has in it. Would that also be a consideration? |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 13:23:19
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!!! NAIL HOLES!!! Of all the coniving and desparate grasps at straws I've ever heard, that one takes the cake.
But in all fairness, I do heartily admire your imaginative inspirations to milk the turnip. |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 17:56:46
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In my 43 years as an adjuster, I have yet to see shrinkage in 4, 6, or 8" tongue and groove. It may have been bowed when installed, but natural shrinkage? If it were installed properly it would not pull apart.
Nail hole counting, I know you submitted that for a teaser, right.
Tom Weems hit it on the head. That is a Company consideration as to whether they will pay for a nailable surface and much of that depends on why it is not a nailable surface. Work the file properly, submit the nailable question to your supervisor, wait for the answer, and wrap the file up while working on others. If a written directive is received written by the Companies on nailable surfaces, you have no choice in the matter. Contractors need to stick with their business and let us manage ours. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2003 : 18:27:18
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Has any one taken the time to do the math in regards to exactly how many nail holes would be in the decking after three roofs were intalled on it? At some point it's not gonna hold a nail!!! Be smug if you like and condesending but these are things to take into consideration. And as to the decking, maybe i'm wrong, maybe it does not expand and contract, so it's impervious and everything else is not? Forgive me but wood is not immune.
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2003 : 21:18:12
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How many layers does it have??? You have written both of the following statements:
"But maybe i forgot to mention the roof currantly has two layers"
"how many nail holes would be in the decking after three roofs were intalled on it?"
Which is it?
The following questions need to be answered in order to answer your question as best as I can:
What type of material was covering the roof initially?
All all layers the same material type? If not, what are they?
Other than the spacing of the decking are there any other issues regarding the servicablity of the decking?
What does the building code require?
What has the insurance company agreed to pay for on the roof so far?
Does the insured have coverage for upgrades required by building code? (Usually an "additional protection" simply called "building code coverage".)
You will only get what you want if you share all of the information. Also, posting photos of the situation is also helpful to all of us.
We can ALL take the high road here by asking the right questions.
Jennifer
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2003 : 09:30:26
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I was just making a point, two layers or three, is thousands of holes in the decking. The roof has to layers of ashpalt roofing. Thier are no other known issues with the decking, not clear on any building code requirements at this time, checking into that one. So far the insurance has agreed to remove the existing roofs and replace with new asphalt.
there are on average 27 three tab shingles per bundle. That makes for 81 shingles per square, with 4 nails per shingle you'd have 324 nail holes per layer per square. A 25 square roof with two layers would have about 8,100 nail holes and a 3 layer roof would have about 16,200 nail holes in the decking. That's alot of holes!!!!!
How much actaul square feet does that take out of the decking surface? haven't done the math on that one yet, and also you have to consider the space needed for the new 8,100 holes that the new roof will make if you roof over the existing decking.
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2003 : 09:47:52
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Poor Pobresito...
Would 'ums fell all better if the bad ol' insurance company just went ahead and paid you direct to scrape the lot and start over?
You're starting to remind me a whole heck of a lot of a friend of mine I call the 'Whinelator'. |
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goose
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2003 : 10:07:52
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Okay. Since there are no storms and I have finished trimming my toenails... A roofing nailhole is less than 1'16"; I just measured one.
After scribbling what looks like the equations that Russel Crowe did in the movie, "A Simple Mind"' the chances of hitting exactly another hole , after the 3 layers have been removed, is less than 1 in 30. Or more than 1 in 7 shingles. I will take those odds. I am laughing again. at least. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2003 : 10:40:50
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| How many nail holes per square foot? It can not be that many. This is almost funny. |
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Todd_Summers
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2003 : 10:10:53
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DemiGod, I see that you have pledged under a new thread entitled "High-Minded" not to post any further because you have come to the conclusion that high minded adjusters respond condescendingly and rudely. That is unfortunate. One of the purposes of this site is to share experiences, learned knowledge and opinions. It is good, however that you will continue to monitor the posts of others, hopefully in the interest of learning something new.
Allow me to take the high road on this thread, as Jennifer has suggested that we all do, by submitting the following. Most building codes allow for 2 to 3 layers of composition roofing per roof. I can assure you that a multitude of engineers have , if not studied this allowance, have at least briefly considered it. It really should only take a brief consideration, because the 2 main purposes of "decking" as used in construction is 1} to provide a nailable surface for the finished surface and 2} to reinforce the rigidity of the structure. 4x8 sheets of plywood provide amazing results with respect to #2. It is possible that one could fire a machine gun into a roof deck for 8 hours a day for a whole week and as long as none of the holes intersected, the structural integrity provided by the plywood would not be affected (although you might have to actually look for a place to set your nail, ha). But you can see why some others felt that your nail hole theory was "almost" laughable.
I know that in your example it is not plywood decking, but "shrunken" T&G. I suspect that it is actually spaced 1 X4's or 1X6's.Although it is possible to reroof over this type of decking, the correct method would be to install sheathing. Now see above as to who will owe for it. It all depends on location, case law, policy, endorsements and management interpretation of all of the above, but mostly to the adjuster, management direction.
At any rate, the weight of the numerous layers come into play (3 layers) way before nail holes ever would (20 + layers). |
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Nailable Surface
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