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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2003 : 10:38:17
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| So, Jennifer, are you saying that adjusters are management and should not be paid overtime? |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 10:52:09
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I am not saying adjusters are "management."
I am not saying adjusters should not be paid overtime.
The mantra of the independent adjuster is "Know before you go." If an adjuster is hired as an hourly employee, then they work more than the agreed upon hours, they should earn overtime. If an adjuster was hired on with a salary, then they should do what it takes to get the job done. If the adjuster is not satisfied with the salary and the expected hours, then move on. Find another job. If enough people are dissatisfied and leave, then, because we have a market economy, the company will change. And if they refuse, they won't survive.
Jennifer |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 11:23:20
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Davey, I have to say that my observations are personal ones, but seldom do I have work product submitted to me that is what I asked for and is professionally done. I can name a company that the entire Dallas property claims division failed audit.
If you read the advertisements from vendors, posted on this board, you will find an advertisement for a school that was not spell checked.
Clayton, yes "many" and "most" are both more than 1/2.
Menial tasks without close supervision and review. That is why authority levels in any insurance company are very low. $20,000 is usual for first line supervisors. Many adjusters drive pickups that cost more.
Professionals complete complex tasks, without supervision, utilizing job specific resources and report in an orderly manner. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 11:30:51
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An explanation, I am not bashing this industry, just participating and observing and making a cry for professionalism. We are not going to make what we are worth if we are not professional.
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 11:37:11
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Awww, now isn't this nice? We're all locking horns again. Sniff...It's tender moments like these that mean so much...
Anyways, it occurred to me this morning while in the tub with rubber ducky that my use of the 'U' word was ill chosen. Further reflection, given the historic sentiments of many here present, that a more appropriate term should have been used. I wish to correct that faux pas and substitute the word, Confederacy.
That's right! Save your Dixie cups, the south shall rise again! How 'bout this, the Confederacy of Professional Adjusters, or CPA? (Naww, the accountants have that one.) Or, Adjusters Professional Confederacy, or APC? (Nope, that's the GI term for aspirin.) Well then, Professional Adjusters Confederacy, or PAC? (Gettin' kinda political there, don't ya think?)
This is getting tough, how 'bout some help out there, folks? |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 12:00:16
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Chuck, I realize that you are not "bashing" the industry with any intended malice; and I welcome your candid comments and observations.
However, from your "desk" (leaving the topic title), how do you see professionalism being attained on an industry basis?
In simple terms, could you prioritize the suggested possible "solutions"; defined professional standards in place and monitored, standardized skill measurement testing to establish competency levels, weeding out of unprofessionals, professionals only banding together to network with each other, other (please specify)?
Could I conclude from your comments that the acquiring of work (assignments or desk gig) is not directly related to having acquired professional work product reliability?
Is it who you know, or what you hear that is available, of more value to attain work; than the ability to provide a professional work product?
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 12:16:45
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| Chuck, thank you, you said professionally what I can only wish I could have said. Ghost, a union will never fly, thank heavens. BUT, do I smell an idea in all this rambling and writing. We do need Insurance Professionals, and they should be drawn from those whose education, experience and knowledge puts them in the top 5 or 10 percent of the industry. This could include cat adjusters and regular independents, and ?? company people??? Now if we could just find an organization whose members had the skills to write the guidelines, maybe with some work this could happen in a few years. |
Edited by - olderthendirt on 07/30/2003 12:17:49 |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 12:42:08
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Mark, what kind of "guidelines"?
Would a possible start be to acquire a wide variety of those verbose carrier claims job descriptions and competency requirements for the various "levels" of adjusters, or from national IA vendors who would have the same; and gleam from those the technical aspects and competency benchmarks that may be appropriate? |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 12:54:22
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| Ask anyone who took big red,s test and passed all phases, regardless of how many times the test had to be taken. I would then give you a passing grade as a competent catastrophe adjuster. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 13:05:13
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| Trader testing will never be enough, many have passed tests with ease but cannot adjuster worth a darn. And those tests are company specific. They without experince would merit you the title "Newbe in training". Clayton, they are far better technical minds then mine on this site (look in the mirror). But that might be a starting point. Maybe a small group of the CADO people could come up with some suggested guideline then go to the other national groups and explore the idea. This would not be an over night thing, but perhaps it is a goal to work towards. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 13:48:11
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| I had over 30 years co & IA (local) when I passed basic on the 3rd try. I made 100% , because I remembred all the questions, but I worked total losses on the beach in Bay St. Louis as a company adjuster in 69 that had a 30 foot tidal wave, wind and reported tornado,s, had to stick build the building and contents buy investigation, seperate the flood from the wind, pay the wind, subtract the flood, sub total every page, ran a tape, renegotiate several times and agree with the lawyers in New Orleans. BUT big red,s test is still good at weeding out. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 14:50:47
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Yeah, yeah, I know that the 'U' word is a dead duck, particularly for the independents. The only place it has merit is in the company ranks where the dues can be deducted from the paychecks and a controls be in place for dealing with management. But a big BUT is still out here for a PROFESSIONAL TRADE ASSOCIATION.
OKAY, so maybe the choice of words still needs some work and the acronym will need some editing, the fact remains that given the depth of knowledge required to perform our job function along with the true worth of our craft, the need for our organizing into a cohesive group still stands. Why we do not have such an organization in the first place is open to conjecture and I am not in the mood to bring up the various conspiracy factors or space alien abduction therories, right now.
Suffice it to note, all of the elements are in place except for the spark to ignite the flame of creation. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 15:27:26
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As much as anything else professionalism is an attitude. As in every walk of life some are professional and others are not. The problem with adjusting is that it is such a broad boulevard, knowledge wise and skill wise, and as we move forward the boulevard of required knowledge and skill gets wider and the traffic faster. Some of my posts are available on this board, as I have wrestled with the current gig and the posts deal with issues that not previously encountered.
To use an ancient cliché, birds of a feather flock together and provides a partial answer to how acquiring work works. There is a group known to me that I know can either do the work or they are capable of getting up to speed quickly. I know that they have or will buy the needed equipment. They can do a cost benefit analysis and are not hung up on specifics such as overtime or per diem. I’ve named first names on this board in the past. They are skilled, intellegent idea people. They recommend me and I recommend them. Unfortunately the pool of professionals is small and where large jobs are concerned the unqualified get in. They also get identified and get cut early. Generally in an emergency situation there is no time to determine who can and who can’t ahead of time. And while there is time to teach, the teaching is job specific and the basics of organization, letter writing, life management and computers are taken for granted.
To directly answer your question, as far as I am concerned as a pure independent, being a professional producing a professional product is the most important thing. It is the professionalism and knowledge and the ability to get along with people that keeps me working.
I think that a test similar to the SAT and ACT would assist in identifying the professionals. However, the vendors know who the professionals are and while a cousin can climb and measure a roof and may be hired because they are cousins, professionals are hired when a professional is needed. 30 years of experience can’t be taught in any period but 30 years.
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NoelHardy
ca
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 16:47:11
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| I think that this discussion could go on and on. It does come down to the fact that as 'professionals' we are called on to be able to act without supervision, and to negotiate and settle with a wide variety of individuals, which includes insureds, lawyers and company people. Investigations can be very complex even on Cat claims, if we are doing our job. I agree that we need and "ORGANIZATION" to work for us and with us, made up of us. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 17:00:05
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Hey Noel, a fellow beaver buck, from the western La La pond; welcome to CADO.
I agree with everything you say, except, we are not classed, pegged, notched, treated or paid as "professionals".
Can you give us your ideas or vision on how an "organization" can work for us and with us?
Don't mind me, I'm purposely trying to gently prode people that share the concept to get past the "motherhood" statements, and get some concrete ideas on the table. |
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Overtime for adjusters?
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