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givemeroofs
9 Posts |
 Posted - 04/20/2004 : 22:15:06
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In regards to a test square....
I don't want to over-simplify the argument but....
A roof either has hail damage or does not. As many of you have seen, you can often spot hail damage as you are getting off the ladder.
In my opinion, test squares are used by rookie adjusters who were trained by large carriers.
If I see no damage and the roofer wants to have a test square, I will give them the chalk with the following rules...
1. Do not rub the shingles with your hands.
2. The "hit" needs to be larger than a pin head.
3. Don't try to pass off nail stains as hail.
I find that more often than not, the roofer will say no hail.
Quite frequently, I meet with roofers who have never seen the roof before and have no idea what to look for. Many of them are recruited salesmen from local colleges looking to make a quick dollar. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 22:23:20
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givemeroofs,
I only do test squares if requested to upon a re-inspection. And I never presume to find the hail damage for the adjuster. I keep my mouth shut and only open it if it appears he/she is not finding damage that's obviously there. Of course as I stated in other post's I don't work fringe areas so I rarely have dissagreements with adjusters.
About your last comment, true dat! I think they hire these people and tell them to just sign um up if they breath. Then act like you know what your doing when you meet the adjuster, God I hate that crap! I'm like you guys, I want to see some damage! Hence I did not sell to many jobs last year becuase many roofs just didn't have the type of damage I'm looking for! = ( Siding was another story though! = ) |
Edited by - DEMIGOD on 04/20/2004 22:26:36 |
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Czar
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 22:24:46
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Demigod:
The house was in southeast Columbus near Bexley.
GMR:
I would agree with your thoughts of a test square, but I have found in a few circumstances that it does work when you are looking at repairing shingles only to satisfy the homeowner, as many carrier seem to do. |
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givemeroofs
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 10:03:51
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If it will calm the homeowner down, sure. But I try not to make it standard practice.
Just like the previous post, I have arrived to find a roofer waiting with a test square with "hits" on it. He will then proceed to tell me, "here is your test square, how many hits do you need?" He will often have the roof already diagramed for me. Nice if it's really damaged, but we all know how that goes. If I can, I will have the roofer agree on no hail damage while on the roof, then meet with the insured and tell them in front of the roofer that neither one of us could find damage. That way if the roofer wants to stay, the insured knows the truth.
Also just a quick vent....
Met with this "roofer" last week in Houston. Kid about 22 or 23. Drives a BMW. Tried to climb the roof wearing slick sole dress shoes. I could not help but think it was some kind of joke. Anyway, he had no clue about anything. Told me he gets paid $75.00 per appt with an adjuster, nothing from the roof. |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 10:50:09
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| If a hail hit causes "bruising" of shingles and that bruising causes granular loss, it seems reasonable to "rub" the spots which appear shadowy immediately after a hail event. If the granules come off much easier on those spots (as opposed to the other non-shadowy areas), isn't it an indication of possible hail damage. Or should one just no claim the roof, wait for a spell of hot weather and a few rain events and then plan a reinspection? |
Larry Wright |
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Todd Summers
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:14:27
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| I've got to be able to see it, touch it, feel it and photograph it or it ain't there...now if 6 months of sun, rain, wind etc. (NOT finger-rubbing) causes it to be able to be seen, touched, felt and photographed then it IS there. |
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danguyer
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:36:15
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I agree with you Larry. Hail hits can show up after a storm when granules are loosened in the bruised area. It is better to find damage on your first inspection than to have a file reopen for a reinspection. We all know if a large number of your files reopen for reinspection you may as well find another profession. I've been stuck with doing many reinspections and didn't get paid much for doing them. Needless to say, those adjusters won't be called for the next storm.
The key for any inspection is to take good photos. It is a good idea to chalk in many cases the damaged areas to show a hit pattern.
I also agree with givemeroofs. If you can meet with the roofer and both agree on the scope you're all set to close the file. This also works when there is no damage.
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Dan Guyer |
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LMLinson
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 13:08:08
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| It is not uncommon to have a minimum file requirement for photos of a test square for each slope. To say that only "Rookies" use test sqares is incorrect. It depends on the carrier and/or the Team Manager. I do not like the shingle salesmen marking the roof before I get to the loss. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 14:29:33
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| Back in the day of real adjusting, the adjusters eye was all that was needed to pay for a hail claim. I agree, test squares was invented for rookies. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 16:25:17
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| So who started the "Test Square"? Some engineering geek with a pocket protector? :P |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 16:52:44
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It was the same big red carrier that started drawing roof diagrams with measurements. It,s a good practice on questionable roof claims, get's a lot of them paid. If your eye tells you when you get of the ladder, then your camera will pick it up, and so will your file supervisor, and I dont do a test.
Stop crying 4 slopes only takes 480 seconds.
This should be in the new thread. How can I get out of work, and still make big bucks each day. |
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givemeroofs
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 17:46:56
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Actually the new thread should be called "What roofers try to pass off as hail damage"
My carrier does not require test squares or a minimum requirement for replacement. They actually trust the adjuster as a professional. Like I said before, the roof either has hail damage or does not. Just for fun, here is a pic of some wind damage from the 4/10 storms in Houston.
Image Insert:
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 18:09:15
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| The roofer I met with yesterday would try to convince you that hail knocked that tree over. Apparently in this guys world everything is caused by hail. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 04/21/2004 18:27:25 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 18:11:10
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| Hey, anyone from OKC, NOAA is reporting 3" hail there today. Can anyone confirm or give an idea of how widespread? |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 18:12:07
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Whose idea of fun is that?
Jennifer |
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Topic |
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Re-Opening a can of worms
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