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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2004 : 16:01:58
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| Anyone one going to Eberls' conference in March 2004 in Las Vegas? Is Eberl the only agency to charge adjusters to attend their conference? or is this fairly standard? I've been CAT adjusting for 5 1/2 yrs, almost of which has thru Wardlaw (worked for another agency during Isabel). If Eberl gets 1,000 IA's to attend and they book rooms at Treasure Island via Eberls' website, Eberl will make a profit of $325,000. They will have no cost for their conference; the meeting rooms will be provided by the hotel for free for booking "X" number of rooms. Wardlaw doesn't charge, Allcats isn't charging. I am very interested to learn if charging adjusters is the industry standard. I look forward to seeing replys to this inquiry. |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 16:25:21
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| Worley charges, Glock charges and Pacesetter charges |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 16:30:47
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| How much do these agencies charge? I've heard of Pacesetter (didn't Pacesetter just sign a deal w/ Farmers?), but not Worley or Glock. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 16:54:20
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| Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Alan, don't you realize that country club dues and green fees are expensive in the preferred Rocky mountain resorts? How else can they be afforded? |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 17:12:44
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| Little work and lot's of managers, someone must pay for those dodge 1 ton hemi's. Bush charges, but are they even arround this year? |
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KLS
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 18:51:01
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Eberls puts on a very good, well planned convention, I was with them in San Antonio last year. The courses were well taught, interesting and useful. Although I have never worked for them, several close friends do on a regular basis without complaints.
Conferences are costly and I don't mind the small fees associated with them to learn, recertify and let the vendor get to know me. However I will note that I usually don't stay in the high priced hotels if I can find something nearby cheaper.
I sincerely doubt any seminar is a money maker for any vendor and these national conferences aren't intended to be. What other way can a vendor provide quality instruction and certification opportunities to a large group of their people? Sure can't do it at the storm site.
If you're not interested in growing, networking and making yourself all you can be for this job with a positive attitude, you will soon find yourself without work of any kind or worse -- only finding work for a third rate vendor who won't pay you. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 20:10:45
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| KLS, You went to Eberls' conference last year and didn't work for them! What's up with that? I would consider a small fee to be under $50. But then again why should IA's be a seperate profit center for an agency? Don't the agencies make enough w/ their split of the fee? I do like to stay up to date, but there's something wrong w/ paying an agency to attend their conference. I don't mind paying for CE (Allcats is charging for CE and for CEA classes). Maybe I'm just cheap. Pray for Hail!! |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 00:16:44
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I feel I have to throw my 2 cents in on this one. If you don't want to spend the money to go--don't but before you yell too loudly you need to consider the many, many hours it takes to coordinate a conference and the cost is astronomical.
Some of the vendors have "invitation only" for their adjusters and they still pay.
There are many costs you haven't considered involved in presenting a conference and I am only going to list a few.
1. A break of juice, coffee, and roll can cost an average of $10-$15 per person. Lunches can be in the $17.50 and up range. Dinners are typically $25.00 per person and up--way up.
2. The meeting rooms are NOT free. Many facilities will only allow audio visual if rented from "their approved" companies. A simple presentation can easily be $500 and up just for the rental.
3. There are rooms, meals and transportation for the support staff.
4. "Presenters" are not free. Most all have airfare, rooms and meals in addition to a fee for the presentation and many times the handouts. NFIP doesn't provide flood manuals but you can download over 200 pages from their website.
5. It takes man hours and expertise to get courses approved for CE credits and sometimes that is an uphill battle.
6. IF and sometimes that is a big IF all the projected rooms are booked then the facilities will usually comp one or two rooms at the most. The vendors make nothing--zip--zero from the actual rooms that are booked.
7. Ever checked with Xactware and signed up for one of their company seminars? You will pay something close to twice what the Eberl's conference fees are. Check it out for yourself--don't take my word for it.
8. Check with Haag Engineering's seminars--again you will pay more than the conference.
9. Earthquake experience is not easily obtained--I don't know how to start one! But I do want to learn all I can from the California Earthquake Authority! It is almost certain there will be another--when is the only unknown. Any knowledge of handling these complex claims is valuable to each of us who truly care. Knowledge is our only tool and knowing how to properly apply it is our only commodity.
I have attended more than one of their conferences and I have never worked for Eberl's so don't take this as an advertisement for them. I have realized CE credits and further education for which I am grateful I had a one place to go to get it without traveling all over the country. You can never learn too much.
There is absolutely NO profit in presenting a conference. If the actual costs were charged it would be much more than the conference fee charged and your hand would tremble when you wrote the check.
If you don't believe me, then you can ask any number of other people who have been involved in a conference and then look at the red ink that is ALWAYS present at the end.
A conference is for the good of the adjuster. It provides a central point to obtain many CE credits and last but not least the opportunity to network with other adjusters. The vendors can get you on their list without spending money. In the end, well trained, knowledgable adjusters make more money and some trickles back to the vendors.
If you have means of obtaining all you seek without spending more than $50 then more power to you. I somehow doubt you will be able to obtain the level of education from these that most adjusters seek.
I applaud Eberl's and all other vendors for undertaking the hard work necessary to present their conference.
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 00:46:58
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One of us pretty naive. Call your local Holiday Inn, tell them you can guarantee 500 rooms for 5 nights and ask what they will provide you. I don't expect lunch and/or dinner at a conference unless it included in the price - then it's not a conference, it's seminar which I would expect to pay for. I realize what is necessary to put on a conference, I have done it so I also know what the costs are. The point is that any agency must have a healthy roster of adjusters to meet the demands of their customers (the insurance cos.), therefore it behooves them to court us. I guess it is appropiate that Eberls conference is in Las Vegas because paying for the possibility that they may call you to work is a "come" bet at best.
I now find it interesting that some agencies do charge while others don't. So far all agencies are small to medium size. Do the big boys like Lindsey Cunningham and Crawford charge for their conferences? Anyone know? |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 08:20:28
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Alan, I noticed an interesting element in your posts, that being your constant referral to the claims vendors as "agencies".
While their incorporation papers would likely have reference to their being a company for the procurement and handling of insurance claims through the use of independent adjusters, certain business models could be synonomous with an "agency".
It is with no criticism that I have in the past defined the role of the cat vendor, as that of a Project Management company; handling the temporary needs of a carrier following a cat. As that type of project management is heavily dependent on manpower, the "agency" concept surfaces and becomes an important component of their business plan.
If you have an additional view regarding the vendors as "agencies", I'd be interested in hearing it.
However, there is one thing that I can respectfully tell you, and that is that Linda who posted previously, is not naive by any definition. Relative to the issue, she has considerable conference / convention planning and costing experience; and I do believe that from her experiences in those processes; that her eyes have been opened wide to the realities of those processes.
Going back to your opening post, whether it be a claims vendor or a widget design vendor, there is no validity to the financial model you presented.
Without any reference to yourself, if any of these events, in any small way, contribute to creating "adjusters"; then they are of great value to the participants and the industry at large. The claims industry has allowed itself to grow a new level of participant, below what would be referred to as an "adjuster". The evolution of the "claims handler" or "appraiser" to be assigned claims with defined handling parameters that are void of any 'cause' or 'coverage' involvement, is "our" fault, the fault of those in the industry that sought the wrong solution to deal with a growing workforce that was improperly and / or inadequately trained to act as an "adjuster".
Events, such as is the topic of this thread, can only help to be a small part to make people aware of what an "adjuster" is and what an "adjuster" does. |
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Cecil
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 08:20:48
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| If you check the bulletin section, you'll notice several companies cancelled their annual meetings. Mainly, if you can't break even by getting enough interest, it's a lot of work for the organizers who end up trying to figure out how to pay for it all. I think the CADO people could help clear part of this up since they have had a conference or two. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 11:43:09
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Yes, CADO has held two (2) conferences/seminars/gatherings whichever you choose. These were in 2000, in Biloxi, MS and then in 2002 in Mobile, AL.
Each of these events was hosted by CADO and at the insistence of the headman, and over the protests of those involved in the production, the cost to the adjuster/attendee was kept at the lowest price imaginable.
CADO 2000 brought in an earthquake expert from California, a Business Interruption Expert from South Carolina, and had scheduled an appraisal guru from Texas, (whom, due to health issues did not attend, but forwarded a copy of his presentation,) which we copied and dispensed, at no cost. We also had many, many breakout sessions, on roofing, digital photography, tools of the trade, to mention a few
The accommodations selected, were the result of inspection of seven (7) different facilities by two volunteers, to assure the guests that they would be comfortable.
The vendors, IA firms and software firms, Insurance Agents, Hardware supplier’s etc. were afforded great facilities and the how was a success, with the amount of exhibitors who chose to attend.
Linda was there and is very familiar with the costs associated with food, AV costs to mention some.
The event even included a moonlight dinner sail on a ship as the culmination.
If anyone, can tell you what the REAL cost was, after the minimal contribution of the attendees and exhibitors it will be the head man. NO ONE was ever privy to the costs that CADO incurred.
Some of us attempted to assist in the costs, as we knew that it ran way over the income, but he would not consider this and did it his way.
IMHO, this initial event, in which, only those in attendance can vouch for the knowledge and insight gained from the experience, cost CADO into the 5-figure area.
The efforts put forth by the worker bees, in time and expense; pale in comparison to this mans love of his fellow adjusters, and his desire to maintain CADO.
THANK YOU, from all that were there.
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 11:48:50
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| All, Linda is one of the "CADO people" Cecil refers to. Note that the CADO conference/seminar has been canceled. |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 12:15:07
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Back to the ORIGINAL topic. Adjusters have expenses to. Automobiles, Auto Insurance, License costs and maintenance costs, E&O Insurance costs, computers, software, adjusting hardware, food, lodging, and the list goes on and on...... Does the vendor participate in any of this????
Why is the adjuster expected to help "pick up the tab" for some of the vendors expenses? The entire business seminar/meeting/rah-rah show is a BUSINESS EXPENSE for the vendor.
If the vendor needs better adjusters, let them do their HOMEWORK and find them. If you need to go to a vendor seminar to feel qualified to adjust, I respectfully suggest that you seek other types of employment.
As Adjusters, and independent businessmen, you are responsible for maintaining your own education level and proficiency in the adjusting arena. You should be selling this to the vendors, not relying on them to teach you how to do your job. These people are not vendors or employment agencies, they are CLAIMS BROKERS. They exist because many adjusters have no idea in the world how to obtain a claim from a carrier and this ignorance has created this market "niche" for a few.
In my 40+ years of business I have also put on a few of these meetings and I can tell you Alan is right. It is possible to hold these meetings for little or no financial outlay by using the facilities offered free by many hotels. DO NOT attempt to equate the CADO convention with the adjuster forums initiated by many of the vendors. That is like comparing apples and oranges.
Wake up! Quit paying to put your name on a list so someone can take 40 - 50% of your income. Get educated, get certifications, get proactive.
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Steve H
Switzerland
30 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 23:20:16
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I am thinking that this is a fair market question. Experienced people who have had a great year may go to Las Vegas for a business/pleasure trip and newbies who want to rub elbows and learn a few tricks may go. It's really an individual business decision.
We talk about about wanting to be seen as professionals and not lumped in with the fly-by-nights and we are going to have to spend some money in the slow season to do that. But I do appreciate the vendors who put on a low cost session and am more likely to attend their seminars than the high dollar ones. |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 01:03:45
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| JohnD, that is exactly why we need an association of sorts for adjuster rating. The vendors do not know the qualifications of adjusters, they take their words for it and I have seen some rotten adjusters, to put it mildly.[8] |
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Eberls Conference - Paying to Go?
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