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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 10/12/2003 : 23:01:56
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I'm working in a small town that hasn't seen a hail storm in 30 years, until May 4th of this year. I was on a roof recently with a roofer because the homeowner wanted his roofer there when I inspected. He showed me blisters, scuff marks and stress cracks and granles in the gutters and curled shingles and called it all hail damage. I know this may sound typical to most of you but the funny part is there was real hail damage that he didn't even point out. I paid for the roof because we owed for it, but this roofer was staring hail damage straight in the face and he couldn't even see it. As I kept saying no, that's not hail damage I was waiting for him to point out what I could see without having to look very hard and was obvious to me. He was pointing out what he thought was hail damage because he has been a roofer in this town for 20 years and has never seen hail damage. Even though he has 15yrs more experience than I do on roofs, he has no hail experience. I've seen thousands of hail damaged roofs in the last 5 years, he hasn't seen any in the last 20.
I just thought this was a story you guys would get a kick out of. |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 21:38:47
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Cat, what will really happen, is the roofer will tell the homeowner, that the adjuster doesn't know hail damage when they see it. We will call for a re-inspect, and 9 times out of 10 we will get the insured a new roof.
I have another question have you ever heard of a tile roof cracking because of expansion. This is on a straight gable, with 2 valleys on the dwelling. Its a 4 & 12 pitch, so there are no nails. Wouldn't the tiles on the edge expand also, allowing all the shingles in the field room to expand?
State Farm adjuster said there engineers have proven this theory of expansion cracks. Oncec again called for a re-inspect and the homeowner recieved a new roof.
Later
BLT |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 22:14:43
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| Well, Brooks. I think I can prove your theory wrong. How do you get a new roof 9 times out of 10. Who do you think is doing the reinspections? In case you are wondering it is me, or any of a number of experienced adjusters who are working cleanup just like I am. I have reinspected several roofs over the past few months and I guarantee you that I have not paid for anywhere near 9 out of 10. I bet the number is more like 3 of 10. I have 3 tomorrow that I have already reinspected without the roofer and there is no damage and I'm going to meet the roofer out there tomorrow so he can show me what he calls damage. I'll let you know how many of those I end up paying for. |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 08:14:08
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BLT, under what situation were these 9 out of 10 roofs paid for? Granule loss? I don't think so.
The "theory of expansion cracks"? Expand from what also? The only theory I know about expansion cracks is they are NOT COVERED as they are associated with normal wear or manufacturers defects. Case by case basis.
Let Professor Anderson and I know when you are ready for the advanced classes. For now, you'd better leave the training wheels on.
CD
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 09:37:13
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| BLT, I noticed you totally ignored my previous point. Why is granule loss considered damage when hail causes it, but not considered damage when rain or the installing roofer causes it? How fine of a line are you drawing here? |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 13:19:06
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BLT I would be interested in hearing more about tile expansion. I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area. If tile is going to expand, it sure would here in the 120 deg summer temps with some reaching the high roof temps of 160 degrees. Never seen this tile expansion out here is this something that only texas roofers can recognize?
John Durham |
John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 14:40:40
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Ok replys to all
1. Cat - Yes granule loss caused by hail . Doesnt bruise shingle, but knocks off massive amounts of granules, where you can see the asphalt on most of the roof. Training wheels have been off quite some time, but I am always willing to learn. Especially from someone who knows everything.
2. Kile - Because hail does lots more damage than wind, rain, but probably not installation. I don't think y'all get it. This was like shooting the roof with Puff (C 1-30 with gatling guns mounted)
3. John - You did not read my question. Texas roofers do not recognize tile damage due to heat expansion. That was what an adjuster told me. Now I know adjusters have seen it all & done it all, but this guy is crazy. The tile has room to expand in every direction. It's not like it is set up in forms, with no place to expand.
Look forward to more
BLT |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 19:32:49
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BLT, I am not going to say NEVER have I paid for a roof that had severe granule loss. I remember the one, 7 years ago. Denver. It was not the only reason we bought it, just a contributing factor. It was old and they also came off to the mat when you walked on it. We have all been on those types of roofs; you sweep the impact mark with your finger and all the granules come off, down to the paper. Maybe one of those.
If you are going to tell the insured they need a new roof everytime you find granules in the gutters, you are wrong.
And concerning your comment to Kile in your last post, there is no such thing as a little damage. It is damaged or it is not. You can't say a little bit of granule loss is normal wear and alot of normal wear constitutes damage. I guess you want to see it whatever way gets you a job or a paycheck, right?
And the tile expansion thing, what in the h-e double l are you talking about? Are you saying expansion cracks in tile roofing is a covered loss
under a homeowners policy? Wouldn't that be like a thermal crack in a composite shingle and NOT COVERED? Read Johnny Durham's post. I worked a hail storm in Tempe last year. It is Africa hot out there and they ain't crack'n.
You're making your posts from a rehab facility are you?
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 21:42:34
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Greetings Cat:
Y'all have me coming to this site everytime I am home. What the deal is on the tile expansion, is that State Farm said the damage was caused by expansion. There is no way, we had some baseball hail. Not he-double L. This is a Monier Lifetile roof. You cannot get these tiles anywhere that would match existing roof. (Like kind and quality). To find this tile you have to go through salvage yards. Like I said earlier, our main business is small commercial jobs. (fast food type size.)We searched all of our resources and could not find the tile anywhere close.
The reason we are working hail damage is that a large portion of commercial work is now in Iraq. 2 weeks ago we sent 4 million sheets of plywood there. ( source Construction news Daily) Now decking in Texas has gone from $11.00 to $20.00.
Now back to my subject, the tile was damaged by hail, and State Farm says it is expansion.
When I get my Texas liscence you should let me come work for you.
I have personally been on a black 30 year, that was 140 degrees when we laid a thermometer on it.
I will say that I have learned an awful lot since discovering this site. I don't completely agree with HAAG, but it is a learning thing.
Look forward to your reply
Brooks |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 22:42:21
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Now you're getting into it Brooks. I try to tell these guys a little revolution is good every now and then. You're coming to the site everytime you come home and everyone else is coming to see what you, I, and Mr. Anderson are yapping about. Its the circle of life!
Ok. I see what you are trying to say about the tiles now. So Big Red had Haag look at the tiles and they said expansion, not hail damage? Haag can be funny like that. I'd have to examine these suspect tiles to give you my opinion but those Haag guys are pretty thorough.
Also, most insurance carriers do not pay to match. They will allow only to replace the broken tiles so quit lick'n your chops on that whole roof replacement cost and your hunk of the O&P. Better luck next time.
You call me when you get that Texas licence. I did not realize you were not old enough drive yet. It does explain alot of your ideas though!
See you next round,
CD
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Edited by - CatDaddy on 10/14/2003 23:02:26 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 22:44:57
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| Not to get political but the reason the cost of plywood went up has alot more to do with the wet spring and summer and the fires out west. There was simply less timber available so the price went up. The DOD only purchased $50 million in plywood, hardly a blip in a $2 billion industry and certainly not enough to make the price double. USA today had the story a few weeks ago, just before the hurricane hit. |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 23:01:48
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Greetings Confrees:
Yep' I got a lot to learn,but to my grave I will insist excessive granule loss is legit.
I cannot tell you how much I like all this. Now instead of competition, I would like y'all to become unmired from tradition.
Is there a webssite for HAAG. I could not find in Google search.
Also I looked up y'alls credintials, and I think I can throw a horseshoe that big. Thats tossing a bunch of S around though.
BLT
Thanks
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 23:23:23
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Tell ya what Brook. When you go, we will bury you in granules. How's that sound to you. It would seem only fitting.
You wouldnt believe how many people think that is REALLY me throwing the toilet seats in that photo. Its not. It is actually my good friend Jim Flynnt. We buried him not too long ago after a long bout with terminal stupidity. But rumor has it he has cheated death once again and when the moon is full, his alter-ego comes to feed!
www.haagengineering.com. The operators are waiting for your call!
You stick around Brooks and we'll all learn something. Just dont take the cheap shots too seriously and you'll do fine. Heck, maybe you'll be lucky enough to say something so stupid that the great Ghostbuster will chime in on ya and roast your tailfeathers and entire nether region. I can remember the first time it happened to me. Stang like all get out!
And by the way, you're wrong about that whole granule/tile expansion thing.
CD
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 23:34:58
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Cat:
Thank you for that website.
Man y'all keep laying in to me and I will continue to learn more. You folks got to be tired of learning, and that will make me more valuable.
By the way, our O&P is only 24% we have to cover our general liability.
Thanks again
BLT |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 23:40:39
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Mr Aanderson & Mr. Cat:
The HAAG website is incredible. I went to SWT, and when I built rollercoasters i saw 2 cranes collapse. While I was looking over my shoulder running away.
Those claims they show off are the ones I would really like to work. I have worked extensive heights with coasters & cell towers. I know there must be some place for me.
Until then, I will fight the good fight for granule loss.
Your Student
BLT |
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Hail Damage Visibility
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