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Roof_Dr_Sr
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2004 : 19:56:26
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Hay Mystery Cat... One more thing I forgot to mention.. Your 33% profit sounds real good. 10% goes to the estimator, 10% goes to the material and labor and the other 10% is profit. That would be ok except for a few more things... What about all the rain days we don't get to work. What about days when there isn't any business and we still have to pay our employees? We are not like most roofing contractors who get their labor from under a bridge as someone suggested, our men are trained professionals who do excellent work. They show up for work on a regular basis, have their own transportation and make an excellent wage. Where does all this money come from?
Again, thanks for your imput [8D] |
Roof Dr.Sr. |
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 20:09:25
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A final remark and then I am through trying to argue a dead issue.
In a free-market society, the MARKETPLACE determines the value/cost, not some 'big company'. If someone, anyone, can do a job more effeciently for a lower cost, they will always have market niche. Why? Because for a large number of people, that is the ONLY determinate factor. In the roofing industry if you want to force higher prices (and supposedly a higher quality) on the American public, then close the US borders, mandate a stringent set of standards with no allowable deviation and guarantee ALL of your workers total health care.
Ms. Gray,
I have looked back through my HAAG manual to try to find their actual definition of 'bruising'. A bruise is more accurately defined as a 'fracture'. HAAG's wording - (typical engineer-ese) Fractures in shingles initiate in regions of maximum tensile strain at bottom sides of shingles and propagate toward the top side. (page COMP-29)
In layman's terms it is a crack in the asphalt core of the shingle and will start on the bottom side of the shingle and work it's way up.
Hope this helps! |
Kevin Hromas |
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gloverb
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 21:08:33
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Kile,
Understand, I rarely do roof work as a contractor. As an approved contractor I write roof estimetes for free for the carriers. I only write damages that I see. I can't assume that there is damage. I cannot include replacing drip edge or flashing unless I find damage on these items. These items should be add-ons, supplements for the contractor if he finds damage once the shingles are removed.
What is not considered is that the contractor has added expenses, labor & materials, also.
How many "catastrophe" roofing companies are there? There were roofing companies from Minnesota working the Dallas, TX storm last year. The catastrophe roofers beat the adjusters to the site. They send out 4 or 5 estimators adjusters; they hire a roofing crew at the site for the cheapest price possible; & I'll betcha a dollar to donuts that none of these companies carry even the basic insurance.
The established roofing contractor has a hard time competing with these guys because his overhead is so much higher. I wish that all roofing contractors had to be licensed & insured. I reiterate, as long as carriers have the attitude that "We can get it done for this amount" all we will ever get is the lowest common denominator to do our roofs.
You cannot pay labor $8.00 an hour an expect professional work, & with the pricing, that is all that reputable contractors can afford & still make a profit.
From an adjusters standpoint, I will pay what the carriers allow. From a contractor's standpoint I cannot make a profit doing insurance roofing work if I do it the way it should be done. There is no money in it!
Most of the good roofing contractors make their money doing new construction. This way they do not have to deal with insurance pricing.
Don't take my word for it! If you have time just check the costs: material, labor, insurance, ss, unemployment, etc. & then come back & tell me I am wrong. There is simply not enough money in roofing work to attract the good contractors. Until this happens just keep expecting the same fly-by-nights that we have been getting.
I am really not arguing this issue. I truly believe that the pricing for roofing is too low to attract many good roofing contractors.
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 22:02:50
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Thanks Kevin for the explanation. Not what I thought "bruise" would be. I'm thinking more along the lines of a skin bruise where there is no break in the skin. Now I understand the need to lift some of the shingles to look at the underside.
Thanks again. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 22:22:02
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| Karen, It's pretty simple. Does the impact mark have a depresion? Is it softer than the rest of the shingle. Press it with your finger if you feel it give more than the rest of the shingle you have a bruise. If you want to go further, take a putty knife and carefully pry the shingle up from the bottom. Work the knife along the entire bottom of the shingle before trying to lift it, otherwise you will tear the shingle. Once you have it lifted see if you can feel the bruise from the back side as well. Be sure to press the shingle back down when you are done. You will probably want to put some roofing cement under it, but if the sun is out and the temps are in the 70's it should reseal all by itself. |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 11:58:04
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| OK move my post in getting started over here. My point is "they" carrier/vendor/temp agency/tpa does not know or does not trust the person who they sent out to inspect the roof. It seems "they" feel/belive, "thier" filter system will catch the flaws that occur when you send this type adjuster out in the field. "They" will not get" big hits" because most states do not have punitive measures or short time frames (Texas accepted) and "they" are correct. And the supply of roof climbers is inexhastable. |
Edited by - trader on 03/05/2004 12:01:27 |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 14:05:39
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Roof Doctor:
Glad to see you. I worked with one of your sons buddies, this summer. We attended the NTRCA luncheon at Pappasito's y'all were there also.
I also framed Cheddars Restaraunts and worked with you guys there.
Accutech is a solid legitimate company!
These guys know everything though Roof Doctor Senior.
Later |
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Roof_Dr_Sr
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 05:36:44
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Thanks for the flowers Brooks! I would like to make one correction. It is my son Bryan Keeton that is the owner of Accutech and has made our company outstanding with honesty and knowledge. He decided a long time ago he wasn't going to be just another dead beat roofing contractor who was always trying to get the money and run. In fact, one time while I was working a storm in Kentucky, things were really excellent. Sales were booming, profits were high and I was doing great. I called Bryan back in Texas where I know things were very slow and ask him to come sell for me in Kentucky. I Guaranteed him at least $100,000 in the next 6 month if he would just come up and do nothing but sell. His answer was,
"Dad I would love to come up and make the money cause God knows I need it right now, but I have a responsibility to the clients I have here who have warranties with Accutech".
What a son! It's that kind of attitude that makes an adjuster want to refer our company to a client. They know he will be there if anything goes wrong in the future. Watch for our radio show which may be coming out very soon. It will be "All About Roofing" and will take questions on roofing your home, products and services, along with insurance questions about claims. It's going to be great and will be heard by hundreds of thousands all over the US!
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 07:59:24
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| Would you please take this self serving palaver over to the roofers web site? This is not only off topic, it is out of a different book. |
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Roof_Dr_Sr
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 07:02:14
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That’s good Ghostbuster, especially coming from someone who uses a ficticious name and claims to live in the Bermuda Triangle. The purpose of me being here is to have both sides of an issue represented. I don't know what book your referring to but the one we use is the one furnished by the "National Roofing Association", not the one furnished by an insurance company called "The many ways to save money when adjusting a hail claim".
As Anna DeLong once stated, "I thought it was the job of an adjuster to help a policyholder in times of need, not see how much money I could save the Insurance Company". What's wrong with that attitude Ghostbuster? Why not have better employees who are trained to put a roof on properly? Doesn't that save the insurance company time and money in the long run?
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Roof Dr.Sr. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 11:01:12
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| Roof Dr. Sr., you need understand that if you are as honest as you say you are, then you are a very rare bird indeed. Adjusters are constantly battling roofers statements to homeowners that the roof should be paid for by the insurance company because it has damage and needs replacement. The problem usually lies in the fact that the damage and the need to replace the entire roof are two separate issues - one covered, one not. BUT, since the ROOFER said ... |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 11:43:40
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| And, the National Roofing Association website is where you should be sharing these items of interest to others of your ilk. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 18:41:43
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Alan, since you mention the battles we as adjuster sometimes have to fight with roofers, let me share a few tidbits from a real live claim up here in Connecticut which I am now handling.
Risk has had interior ice dam water infiltration damage in the rear kitchen.
Risk is located in Old Greenwich (the "Beverly Hills of the East Coast"). Roof is 7/12 with 18" red cedar shingles, and in my opinion, there is no damage whatsoever to the roof system or cedar shingles.
Now let me share what the Insured's roofer writes in his proposal to the Insured and insurer. These are the exact quotes:
Due to the most extensive ice damming since 1934, thousands of roofs were irreversibly damaged beyond repair.
Fortunately, yours can be repaired. Instead of a new $45,000.00 roof, your repairs are only $15,000.00.
The roofer goes on to mention that this terrific bargain for 9 squares of Number 1 18" red cedar shingles is only $15,000.00.
His price of course includes the 72" GAF "weatherwatch" ice dam protection system, which of course the insured does not have now.
And, his price includes 36" ice and water valley barriers which the insured also doesn't have now.
And, his price also includes copper chimney, vent and valley flashings, which again, the insured does not have.
Now has anyone ever seen or heard of felt or cedar shake shingles failing or being damaged due to freezing temperatures? (There was no significant build up of ice on the wood shingles by the way).
Now what's wrong with this picture? |
Edited by - JimF on 03/22/2004 18:48:03 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 19:59:28
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| Sounds like a typical roofer to me, Jim. |
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Janice Toll
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 20:03:46
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| What's wrong with this picture is - Roofer needs money! |
Janice R. Martin-Toll |
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Topic |
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Is granule loss considered hail damage?
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