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NA
USA
114 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2002 : 02:08:22
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Removed Why?
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Straw
13 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 03:09:07
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| Jim, I have often wanted to be a salvor, but never had the info (Guts)to do it. Over the weekend I will dig out my AIC books and review. However, I don't remember alot about the rules of salvage except that someone makes some good money by blowing smoke @#$% to VP at the HO. I have found that the carriers I work for really don't care about salvage except for a nominal fee to justify intent. I will looking forward to this forum because I know nothing about this topic, I am the " would you like to keep the salvage, let,s make a deal " type adjuster. |
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NA
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2002 : 06:40:57
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Posted By Jim Flynt
As most of you know, Chuck Deaton has put together and publishes a wonderful learning module entitled Cat 101, which he will send out to anyone requesting his most up to date copy, which Chuck updates from time to time.
Because information within a learning module can change over a period of time due to new court rulings and new policy changes, it is, as Chuck has recognized, vitaly important to continue to revise and update these learning modules so as not to be dessiminating incorrect information.
Accordingly, I have decided to experiment with the Salvage ~ Salvors learning module and it will be available to anyone requesting a copy by emailing me at CADOAIC@aol.com
Other learning modules now under development will be made available to subscribers as well by request at CADOAIC@aol.com |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2002 : 09:43:18
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Hi Jim,
Since Dumb ol' Roofers like me seldom have salvageable items on a garden variety roof loss, I'll ask my two simple questions now. You can either answer during your class or whenever it is convenient.
I run across salvage only when there are tiles, slates or aluminum shingles. With slates in our area not being as popular as in Eastern and Northern areas, most of the salvage agreements we make as contractors involve a bargain that goes something like "You come get them and we'll give them to you to save the disposal fees." Seldom does any money change hands but saving a landfill fee can be several hundred dollars depending on the size of the job.
With tiles, there is often a similar agreement unless the tile is a sought after tile such as one of the older Ludowicci's that are in demand for historic reasons. I used to keep a lot of salvaged rigid asbestos but determined that mowing around the stacks, cataloging the stuff and the potential for imagined healthrisks for the non-friable material was not worth the hassle to me.
Now aluminum has a definite market value which can fluctuate. However we do sometimes find that with larger jobs, the trouble to use two separate disposal vehicles or containers and to pay more labor to separate and then compress the aluminum shingles by stepping on them in the trash vehicle can yield a profit of $200 or $300 dollars versus the cost of tearing off after the extra labor, trips to the scrap metal yard and double vehicle expense is subtracted. It only figures out to be profitable on jobs of say 40 squares or more. I have always shown these values on our bills to insureds and those bills are usually also faxed to the insurer for RCC payments. In the past, we have used a mileage factor and since labor is paid by the piece in Texas on residential roofing, we actually have some crews who know they can "hold us up" or raise the ante just a little for going to the trouble of separating everything and neatly stacking and covering the load.
I have had homeowners tell me to leave the aluminum on site for them but in most cases, it never occurs to them. When they want it left, I tell them that we must charge for the tear off and separation of the material and that it will appear on our papewrwork that approximately "X" number of pounds was left for the homeowner to take to the scrap yard. Most then, have us do the recycling and show it on the paperwork. We don't run across these jobs more than six to eight times a year but are we handling them "by the book" or should some other method be used? By the way, most adjusters are surprised when we show the salvage on our bills and say that other companies tell them the extra labor and expense to separate and haul the different loads is a "wash".
My other salvage item user was the claims manager of a small insurer. He wanted all of the lead vents we took off his claims saved instead of dumped. He was an avid reloader and also made fishing weights with the old beat up salvaged plumbing jacks. I once got a box of reloaded wadcutter target practice .38 shells as a thank you for dropping off the lead at his house once a month. After about 8 or 9 years, he tired of reloading and as his kids got older he lacked the time for it any more. |
Lon |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2002 : 22:01:26
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| Lon, I don't know where you are located, but the lead you salvage can be sold to commercial reloaders. There are commercial reloaders who clean up firing ranges and reload for the range. They buy lead. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2002 : 22:50:37
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How come no one ever mentioned COPPER. Like the vallies, chimney flashing, pipe boots, gutters and leaders, and the other worthwhile salvageable materials.
Granted, most times the cost of cleaning or disposing of coated materials is not worth while, there are instances when the amount of salvage on a commercial project is abundant.
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2002 : 19:11:01
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I don't pretend to understand the stance of the carriers on this subject. On one storm there was a designated salvor, however, he only took marine salvage. Not even $4,000 generators with less than 24 hours on them were worth his time. The insured's are happy to buy back what they know the carrier cannot dispose of. It took me a while to understand they wanted you to address the salvage in the file but certainly didn't want you to bring it into their office. Another instance on the same storm was copper guttering. They wouldn't spend the extra to purchase patinated gutters for the one elevation of damage but would replace all of it and then left the salvage for the gutter company to "haul off". There just doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it.
What I have learned about salvage is DON'T TOUCH IT. Tag it if instructed to do so and leave it sitting where it is, include a copy of the tag in the file and address it in the log notes. I may stand to be corrected but I do not feel it is the responsibility of the Independent Adjuster to take possession of the salvage. If the carrier wants it, then they need to provide you with a designated salvor and a means to contact the salvage company. |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2002 : 01:11:09
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Katadj,
From a practical standpoint, unless we're talking a huge apartment project or commercial loss, their isn't enough volume on any one roof of copper materials to take to the salvage yard each time. Tear off prices don't pay enough to handle the stuff twice (separating it and taking the small amounts to the yard or warehouse and saving them until there is enough to make a trip to the scrap metal dealer.)
A normal house might have 40 pounds of steel valleys. Copper is out there but usually in much fewer instances will you find copper unless they are old slate roofs or real clay tiles. Still, volume is the issue when you may have less than 50 pounds of copper flashings on any given roof. The price we are paid at the scrap metal yard for an entire aluminum roof, while 1/2 the weight of copper, is still in the $400 to $800 range (1000 to 2000 pounds) and we have double vehicle expense with some things going to a landfill and others going to the scrap metal yard. We also incur the separation labor and compacting problem I mentioned in the earlier post. At 50 pounds of copper on one roof, the incentive to recycle just isn't there.
A little known fact is that there is an asphalt shingle recycling plant in the Metroplex but their prices are 20% HIGHER to GIVE them the shingles than a landfill charges for you to give THEM the shingles.
Interestingly, there are a few large recycling machines in a few cities that take cedar shingles even with nails in them and then make them into cedar mulch. However, if they are 75 miles away from a job their FREE dump (you have to separate out felt and metal edging and valleys) could cost you more than the $250 landfill fee if you pay gas at 4-5 miles per gallon on big dump trucks, wear and tear and the laborers' time to drive there.
I am very much in favor of recycling and use many recycled roofing products. I especially like the Eco-Shake which was once featured on PBS and is also Class 4 impact resistant and can carry a Class A fire rating with some installation methods depending on the deck and felt used. They are made in Wagoner, OK and their web site is http://www.ecoshake.com
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Salvage
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