| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Catmannn
42 Posts |
 Posted - 01/25/2003 : 23:02:02
|
Road Warriors,
I have had a nightmare. I have seen the future and it is ugly.
I see that the carriers can and will demand anything from the storm venders, and the venders willl comply.
I feel that the carriers are now going to start requesting, from the storm venders, inspections of all the claims assigned to an adjuster within a two week period. If the storm grows it will be the storm vender's job to assign more adjusters to the site. This would get the assigned cat adjuster somewhere inbetween 50-60 claims on his cats. Thus, the cat adjuster would be in and out in couple of two or three weeks. Looks good on the outside from the carriers point of view and from the venders point of view, but sucks from the cat adjusters point of view. I see no way that an independent adjuster can make a living doing two week storms.
Do you?
Houtz
|
|
|
CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2003 : 23:55:14
|
Catmannn - is this something that you have experienced or did it actually come to you in a dream?
No doubt carriers want to close down cats as quickly as possible. I have noticed that the number of reps brought in at the beginning of a cat has increased from past cats. I think they are wanting to get on top of the numbers very quickly and take control of the cat rather than the cat controlling the operation. If that is going to be the trend, with this type of response to these events, some folks, staffers and IA, may not be there as long as they use to be under the same circumstances.
I believe carriers still will have to treat vendors and their IAs fairly. They cant get into the practice of asking IAs to work their cats and know it won't be economically feasible for them going into it. Some carriers expect alot and hopefully they'll make it worth the expense to everyone involved. |
 |
|
|
Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 09:06:34
|
Catdaddy, When I was a staff adjuster my view of the industry tended to be somewhat myopic, that is to say, this horse wore blinders. Once the jump to the independent life was made, the blinders came off and, Whoa!, what a view it was.
In fact, some carriers have pulled this stunt for some time now, Safeco comes to mind, and I think American Family, also. This overstaffing a storm short feeds no one except the adjuster. It is but one of the deadly cancers growing on our industry.
I hope your pals resigning to chase the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow have laid in a large reserve fund to finance their living and setup expenses. Storm trooping is a very different world than it was in the glory days. For the sake of you and your family, I hope you can thrive in the Big Red machine. |
|
|
|
CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 09:43:31
|
Ghost - sometimes I wonder what they're saying and thinking behind those closed doors in the "big office". I will keep the faith though. My wife and I are in it together. Sometimes I think we have them right where we want them and sometimes if feels like the other way around.
I will say this in relation to cat ops, "We" sell service. Its not a secret that sometimes were are not the cheapest so we have to be exceptional in another area...and that's customer service for us. Other companies may cut people to say money at the sacrifice of service to their folks. I will say you will NEVER see that with "The Machine". The operatons will be staffed according to needs but the steamlining in our case can only go so far because service will always be first priority and ya gotta have warm bodies to do that. |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 10:33:47
|
Some interesting comments in this thread. Whether it was a 'vison' or a vision, it is and will increasingly become reality. This is not new to CADO viewers, signals and talk of this occurred 8 and 9 months ago.
There are four players in this recipe.
There is the carrier at one end and the insured at the other end, creating the line that forms the contract and brings the promise of service.
True and factual statements are made, ".... carriers want to close down cats as quickly as possible .... we sell service ....". Obviously the carriers want and try to reach each insured with a claim ASAP, while in turn in our service oriented society, consumers are more and more demanding service 'today'.
Regardless of anyone's vested interest as a cat adjuster, I can not picture a valid argument being advanced by a cat adjuster in opposition to a carrier wanting to deal with their claims as quickly as possible; even if that means the logical decision to insist on vendors providing more adjusters - to lower the assignment count to each.
The third player is the vendor, and nothing has changed there. They will do whatever they are told, and respond accordingly to the carriers mandate. The economics are the same for them, 35% or 40% of the fees on 2000 claims is the same whether 25 adjusters have 80 files, or 40 adjusters have 50 files, or 50 adjusters have 40 files. A little more babysitting and admin work, but the gross is the same.
Then there is 'you' the cat adjuster. To be surprised of the revelations in this thread, means only that you have had ear muffs and blinkers on for the past two years. I don't share Ghost's feelings on it but, it is a 'stunt' that is here to stay, it is a 'cancer' that will cause cat adjusting as you know it to die. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 11:33:41
|
You can look at this in a couple of different ways guys. In a year when there is only one or two big hail storms this may hurt the individual adjuster, because those one or two storms will only be 50 claims each. What it does do, however, is spread the work around to more adjusters. I can tell you as someone who took the leap of faith and entered this business 4.5 years ago that would have been really nice back then. My first two years I worked a grand total of 2 storms and did lots of temp work in the mean time to keep the lights on and the dogs fed. As a newbie, I would much rather have seen 100 adjusters working 50 files rather than 50 working 100. At least I would have had twice the chance of working.
Now lets consider it is an active year and there is a good hail or wind storm somewhere in the country every 2 or 3 weeks from early March through mid July, followed by 3 land falling hurricanes throughout the fall. If they over staff every storm you'll end up working 8 storms with 50 or 60 claims each. You make just as much as you would working 4 storms with 100 claims and you get to see 4 places you wouldn't have otherwise visited. Given a choice, I'd rather work in 8 different places and make the same amount of money than work in just 4 places. But then again, I love to head the call of the road. This is just my oppinion, polyanna as it may be. |
|
|
|
william s cook
53 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 11:40:53
|
Let me suggest to some that they consider becoming migrant farm workers in the off-season to make up for the off season of being migrant claim workers. Both professions are dependant on the weather and the whims of the immediate needs of the employer. One major difference is that the Farm Workers are now organized and trying to establish a say so in their value or worth to the employer, also they are often furnished a hovel to live in while on assignment. The free market will eventually sort out the value of what it is worth to go to work and satisfy the employers needs and what employers are willing to pay to have migrant workers show up.
William S Cook
Public Adjuster/Migrant Worker
|
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 12:55:02
|
Kile, I like your analogy noted in your 2nd paragraph. However - and not wanting to be argumentative - I don't understand your inference, ".... if 'they' over staff every storm ....", it suggests the carriers actions are wrong; as opposed to "if they properly staffed every storm".
Whether you or any adjuster has 50 or 60 claims, or 100, a handful of each quantity will be the 'last' to be dealt with on each adjuster's journey to bring those files to a close. Simple math and logic suggests that the 'handful' in the adjuster with 100 files will be 'last' to a much greater degree than the adjuster with 40 or 50 files.
This service issue, as has been discussed on CADO more than once, is being addressed by carriers through their creation of other service distribution streams - like the claims cat call centers, and the mandate of less assignments per adjuster.
Maybe the 500 or so new 'members' to this site in the last 5 or 6 months, saw the future better than most, or at least recognized the 'wave' coming. However, it is unfortunate that the result of throwing new and warm bodies at the problem by vendors, to decrease individual claims counts, will cause carriers to strengthen their resolve to grasp that key ingredient of the claims process even tighter - control; which will fasten the fundamental traditional system's demise.
It is sad, and a poor reflection on this industry niche, that the migrant farm worker have stood tall and ahead of the migrant adjuster, and have had their plight addressed much more supportively than the lowly adjuster. |
|
|
|
ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 13:37:42
|
This is the United States and we citizens drive the business world. There is a basic need to get "perfection" for dollars spent. This need spills into insurance. Every state has a Fair Claims practice act. In Arkansas the Act dictates the time line for claims handling. The company doesn't bring in enough adjusters, the insureds don't get contacted within the state imposed time constraints, the insureds complain to the insurance commissioner, the commissioners office audits the carrier and levis a fine and the manager gets criticism and maybe fired. The vendor loses the contract. The adjusters name goes onto the carriers list.
It's not going to go away, folks. |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 14:57:26
|
| Clayton, I wasn't saying it was right or wrong. When I said "over staff" I meant as opposed to the way it's been done in the past. I'm sure if it were feasible they would like to asign a different adjuster to all 5000 claims and have the storm over with in a day, but economics wouldn't allow that. Carriers have to strike a balance between getting things done quickly and keeping a happy and economicaly stable pool of adjusters willing to drop their daily lives and travel across country at the drop of a hat. From a management standpoint, it makes sense to get all the claims handled as soon as possible, but you also have to keep in mind that claims come in for months after a hail storm, so nothing but the smallest storm will ever be handled in 2 weeks. |
|
|
|
CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 15:15:37
|
| Okay, understood & agreed. |
|
|
|
LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 15:24:13
|
Kile: Good luck doubling the number of assignments you are going to get each year, I hope it works out that way but, I sincerely doubt that is going to happen. I have been doing this a long time and have never had 8 assignments in a year. Who knows, maybe the carriers will feel sorry for us all going broke and dole out more assignments to the vendors. Especially after their claims were all screwed up because of the inexperienced "warm bodies" who showed up to handle their claims so quickly.
I see it as a trade-off of quality vs. quantity of personnel assigned to any given cat. When the pendulum swings too far one way, it will eventually come back the other way. In the meantime, enjoy your many two week trips across the country. |
Larry Wright |
|
|
|
KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 18:16:46
|
Larry,
I don't believe it will work out that way either. I was just pointing out how it could be done without negatively impacting our bottom line. In the slow years, spreading the work thin will not help much, but I'd rather have 10 0f my friends make 40K rather than have 5 make 80K and 5 make nothing.
The bottom line is there are only x amount of claims a year and the more adjusters you have working those same claims, the smaller the average income is. I wasn't talking about staffing storms with warm bodies. I was just saying that if they over staff with quality adjusters then the claims would be handled quicker and instead of having 100 adjusters working 4 storms each at 2 months a pop you'd have 100 adjusters working 8 storms at 1 month a pop. But mother nature would probably not be kind enough to sprad it around that evenly. Keep in mind, this is all hypothetical, perfect world stuff. |
|
|
|
CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 18:40:34
|
Ok guys...dont paint yourself into a big "what if" corner. How many times have you gone to a cat and stayed just two weeks? Surely not that many, if any.
Historically, the claims will be there. Kile's first post might outline the way it works. I have certainly never heard of any type of "mandate" dictating claim count per rep. All of you know most of time its the luck of the draw what type of territory you get when you get to a site. The factors are endless. Some may have to do with the carrier. Some may have to do with the experience of the adjuster. But most have to do with the temp employee from Kelly Girls entering zip codes and rep IDs into a computer that mean nothing to them except a way to pay their car note by next Friday. They have no idea who we are or where the hardest hit areas are. It can be just that simple. Scary huh?
Bigger initial responses to cats. More adjusters means more of all of us. Carriers have not increased their number of staff field cat reps. Do you think all these adjusters showing up at cat sites are all staff? The cat site I left Dec 20, 2002 had fourteen IAs and three staffers. No sign of any mandates in Ohio.
As Clayton said, cat call centers have come online in the past years and are here to stay. But, they can only handle certain types of non-complex losses. The big billing is still going to the field. They did knock some of the gravy off the top but there's money to be made.
LarryW - You see "it" as a trade-off of quality vs. quantity of personal assigned? What is "it" and who exactly are the "inexperienced warm bodies" you refer to? Just curious.
|
|
|
|
Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 19:49:24
|
Again, Catdaddy...you are acustomed to the ways of Big Red. There are different realities with the other carriers. Cat Call Centers, like yours in Florida, do indeed siphon off many claims that belong in the field to provide the proper service the Insureds deserve.
|
|
|
|
CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 20:23:16
|
Claims handled in the Big Red Call Center are audited just like the claims in the field that you handle. They operate with a very high level of accuracy and customer satisfacion. I am not naive either. I know and have seen some claims "I" thought should have been handled in the field and I have seen some mistakes made also. But I see the same mistakes in files of field reps everyday. Does proper service mean it should have been sent to the field so someone could get "the billing" for handling the file and that person possibly making the same mistake? No it does not. Alot of call center claims are handled completely based on information provided by the policyholder to the claim rep. When they're asked how big is a room, how old is your carpet, how much of your wood privacy fence is damaged, how much time did you spend completing temp repairs, I doubt they would shortchange themselves. Customer service at is finest.
Our customers dictate our actions, not our adjusters. Every insured has a right to a field inspection. All they have to do is ask. They decide what service is proper for them. We just give them some options.
I am sorry I am not more informed about how other carriers do business. I am sure each varies greatly. I think I could do worse. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
VISON
Forum Locked
