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NA
USA
114 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2002 : 19:57:45
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2002 : 21:16:30
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I'm responding here mostly so I can see these specific thoughts of mine in print - I didn't think I would see this curve in the road again.
I suggest our marketplace has changed, I don't want to flog an old mare, but the "death" has started in cat adjusting as you knew it. We have seem on this web site a number of ads for so called Cat Centers and others simply called what they are - claims call centers; starting up to join others already in motion. Several of the CADO members have bitterly commented on these ads and the thought of a person decifering a conversation with an insured that would result in Jim Lakes phrase that I've cottoned to "cause, coverage, cost - being determined.
The truth in my opinion is that a lot of that is possible. The "possible" part of it is customer satisfaction and quick resolution. There is no secret that there is claims leakage from "telephone adjusted claims", but in the carrier's big scheme of things (a.k.a. profit) the return justifies the means.
In my days of telephone adjusting, a prerequisite in the training process many years ago, you learned to deal with first party small claims and were coached on how to recognize the "snowballs" and those that had any street smarts went on to the wonderful life on the road that in time lead them back to the desk to examine large or complex files then onto supervision and management.
In my home marketplace - the capitalist capital of Canada, best city to work in and third best to live in other than my beloved Calgary followed by Vancouver - Toronto, their is a "buyers" market for professional insurance positions. As I have stated previously, the carriers have swung to wanting senior and experienced people to deal with the more complex losses; as opposed to the mid and late 90's when the university grad was soup de jour. It seems a line has been drawn in the sand, separating the small (small ranging in some minds from $2500 to $7500) from "other" losses, and when those above the small threshold are considered the perpetual Ivory Tower has swung to wanting depth and experience and those that have worked through previous insurance cycles. The university grads are now being taken at entry level claims positions, fast tracked for their AIC equivalancy - and then the cycle goes on.
So, blah, blah, I've polished up my resume, and I'm out to grab onto where I left in 1987 at a carrier; hopefully on the side of the desk with drawers. I'd love to get into a training / supervisory situation with a bunch of keeners. As long as people want to work in claims, and they are not there just because it is a job - I love working with them to get their cream to rise above the milk and help them feel good about their contribution, skills and efforts.
I dread the day whether tomorrow or nest month that I get a call from one of the very few vendors that I have established a rapport with and have to stutter and say no thanks to a standby call. It has been an interesting journey since 1987 as an independant contractor. I thought I was pretty knowledgeable back then, but that 15 year circle has taught me a lot; the basic of which is that there is just so much more to learn and experience. But, I'll always have this site to follow closely, learn from, and when the itch comes over me to say something to try then and keep my boot from nearing my chin. In the meantime I've kept reasonably busy with various risk management projects and some local claims work; but I want to be busy and "involved" and immerse myself into something that challenges and test me as an ongoing opportunity, and as I see it now the best chance of that is at a carrier again. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 10:05:48
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Yesterday, I got mad. I mean REALLY angry. Perhaps all of the aspiring adjusters out there, including Newt, to pay heed to this post. It will not be a pretty sight.
I recieved a call out of the blue from a vendor offering a temp job in Austin doing mold claims for the princely sum of $22.50/hour. These are mostly litigated files or soon will be. I, of course, firmly declined the deal as I do not wish to be subsequently named to a suit in the years to come, not to mention, the paltry pay. A conversation then ensued on the subject of why they thought the carriers were so cheap. The response was his clients have told him they will be cutting all fee bills by 20% in the next two months because they have done poorly in the stock market.
At that point I blew up. This is common thievery. Is it your fault the yutzos at the carriers didn't move fast enough to move the portfolio out of the declining stocks? Are we responsible and should deduct 20% off our mortgage and grocery bills to pay for the carriers lost profits? It's not just a matter of not hiring the independant or laying off their own staff, they want us to work more for less and then cut our honest billings!
Now, I don't know about you, but when I get stiffed on a invoice, I take it personal. I do not mess with lawyers, I visit that person face to face. If it comes down to blunt objects, so be it. The Mafia and other organized crime groups thru out history have proved the worth of these tactics regardless of the law. Let's get this out in the open right now. I take it personal.
That said, the carriers are stiffing the vendor and the individual adjusters as has been pointed out by others. I ask the vendor, "Why do you put up with it?" They whine, "What can we do? We are helpless." How gutless and cowardly can you be? Evidently, more than I can stand to associate with the likes of you.
So... me, Clayton, Jim Flynt, and Cecilia all have our heart attacks together and we stumble into the same emergency room in masse and announce we will be cutting the doctors and hospitals fee by 20%. Will we survive or should we have already dug our graves and got an old water heater box to hold our carcasses?
I told you this would not be a pretty posting. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 13:46:35
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One consulation Ghost Buster, them good ole boys gonna get what they pay for. First off ,the
carriers, Like Farmers are paying seventy bucks an hour. It doesn't take a sharp pencil to figure you were being stiffed as you say.
Seems like the carriers are still making money according to the ins. Journal with exception of a few who don't seem to be involved in the mold frenzy. The stocks are down all over, not just
Insurance. So, it boils down to stiffing the very people who can keep them out of more costly litigation.
I don't profess to know mold adjusting,however I do know the prevention, treatment and documentation of it so that it don't come back to haunt you. If I was an adjuster there are more hazards than I care to deal with because , you guys and gals have no controls over the final out come. Reinfestation could cause you a nightmare, and if it happened once it can happen again if
measures are not taken for the prevention. I would bet there more remediation suits in the future, because of the preventive measures that are not being done.
My hunch tells me Edouardo is going to make land fall around Lake Charles or Beaumont and it will be a tropical storm may even reach cain force. I am waiting for Josephine. There is going to be a cain...
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 14:14:54
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Some more of that phone conversation infuriated me when I learned that the carriers calling for temps did not want anyone wanting to be paid more than $19.00/hour. They would prefer someone in the $15.00 range.
What do you call bend over and spread 'em?
I hate to be crude, but this is what our industry really thinks of us. Just because we lack storm work, the carriers see no problem with grinding us down and then insulting us by playing the carrot on the stick game.
Fresh meat to this industry are offended when I don't welcome them with encouragement to this game, but there are many nasty twists and turns in this minefield you folks don't realize are there. At this time, I would recommend no one try and get into this field. In fact, for many of us, our part time, off season jobs are the only thing keeping our houses from being foreclosed. Boys and Girls, it's that serious. The nice ladies at Pilot get dozens of calls each day from desparate people begging for work. More than a few of those calls are from veteran adjusters calling to remove themselves from the roster as they have found permanent jobs, not insurance related.
Come the next real storm, and there will be one eventually, that will be the time to make the jump. But, right now, you might want to keep your day job sacking groceries or being a bouncer at the local nudie bar. |
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Russ
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 16:19:16
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| I think we all should get A.J. to take the Bar Exam in California, Then hire us as Consultants on any dwelling that has the potential to cause someone harm. Think of the possibilities. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 17:41:58
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| We don't have to go all the way out to CA for this. South Carolina and Alabama already have similar case law on the books. However, it is often overlooked by both the adjusters and the lawyers. Russ, rest assured I look forward to making several of you experts famous in the years to come. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2002 : 21:39:42
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Another storm fizzles. Its so dry here my catfish are going to have swimming lessons if we do get any rain. Montgomery has had the hottest days of the year this past week ,its setting the stage for a blow.
The high altitude front moved down just in time to break up eduardo, so he may be dead. Maybe the timing of the lows comming off the African coast will have the right conditions here, heat.
Looks like more water for The Texas coast. |
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Cecelia
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2002 : 09:51:14
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I agree with Russ. Get Alan Jackson out to CA. The mold fee bills are already being cut when they are over the "average". What is the average? Guess what boys and girls!!!! I have it in writing. It doesn't make any sense to me, but I'll bet Alan Jackson could have a field day.
Yes, Newt, I'm sure the good ole boys are going to get what they pay for, but when the adjusters themselves are named in the suit and their E & O has to get involved (and is, of course, subsequently cancelled - try getting E & O if you've presented a claim to your previous carrier) then who ends up screwed in the end? The carriers will pay the suits and move on while the IA ends up in the soup kitchen line.
Hey Alan. I'm for hire. Just be sure my fees are paid and paid in full. An honest day's work for an honest day's wages and I expect to be paid. Due to the fact that many adjusters working mold claims are not able to say they are being treated fairly, you should have an overabundance of expert help. But you'd better get to us before we are out of the industry entirely. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2002 : 11:43:48
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| A bit of topic but interesting because many of us will be dreaming of mold if nothing happens soon. But fay is looking dangerous this morning. (I cannot believe that the storm floater satilite pictures are still of the reminents of Ed). Also watcher the Bahama's likely something out of there by Monday with the Carolina's as a travel destination. And also three bombs coming of Africa, well one is already i the water and they will have potential. Weather happens and we'll be there to do our job. I just wonder how many of us are still there (or tied into mold contracts.) |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2002 : 20:57:27
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My knees are angled bi-polar as I choose to vent my frustration and chigrine ( I know that is not spelt correctly, but I leave it like that on purpose). Have the ghosts of Mayberry descended and mingle among us within various forums as we speak? I'll accept I'm fair game, but, I'll repeat something I said months ago in an unrelated forum - "we are all judged by the actions of each other". I realize that there is little, if anything, anyone can do or choose to do, to raise the professional "image" of the "whole"; other than be concerned for their own livelihood which has been amply demonstrated here in forums gone by concerning such topics as "association" or "formal group". I admit, I am formally seeking employment outside the realm of an Independant Contractor; and quite looking forward to it. However people, please recognize why your "trade" is declining in favor, over micro managed carrier super centers that are eating away at significant portions of what used to be your bread and butter.
What I have seem in these forums in the last few weeks, is more than sufficient proof for me that the new wave coming behind you, is having a direct impact on your declining illusion of professionalism, and will result further in the erosion of claims considered for handling among this general "pack".
The likes of what we have seen here lately, however enthusiastic and noble, will never make the field (YOU certainly want to hope not) this year. But by next year they will be prime targets for the micro managed call centers, and they will feel the $35.00 per hour is wonderful. Save an arrow, I worked a call center this year for a while (the result of which I openly reported on). I did it for a purpose, as it was an element that I had not previously exposed myself to and there was nothing better at hand at the time. I have the luxury that your $35.00 per hour represents to me about $56.00 per hour at my home bank. It was a good experience overall, and if the ads you have seen haven't sunk in - it is the "thing" of the future. Looking now from your outside to your inside, I suggest you have to do something to raise the median level of the group professionalism. I know Mr. Flynt has tried and tried to bring "classes" to these forums with marginal success at best, through no lack of effort on his part. I know some of you will say that you have been busy or busy enough this year, but a lot of you can not say that. I know of a number of these super centers that are geared up now to "deal" with the majority of claims arising from a moderate blow over the land. Collectively, you have to recognize that the gravy is gone and that the bread and butter is leaving the table, and recognize that as a group in general - you are the author of your own misfortune in this regard. Someone, or an assertive small group must take the challenge and do what is required to elevate your perceived stature as a group, and do whatever is required to once again prove your value added purpose. |
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GLB
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2002 : 20:45:02
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Ghostbuster
I agree the ladies that work for Pilot are very nice people, but I thought the veteran adjusters left several years ago. |
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JSVenning
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2002 : 15:12:51
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| To respond to the starting post: I'm taking CE classes, ordered the AICPUC handbook, and started the ball rolling on CGI. (Thanks Jim, for "How to Become a Pro"), because I think when the smoke settles, they'll still need someone who knows to look at stuff. "Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong..." |
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RJ
32 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2002 : 22:17:42
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What If No Hurricane Hits This Season
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