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Archive through August 28, 1999John15 8-28-99  6:45 pm
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Glen Garoutte
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 5:57 pm:   

I couldn't agree more with Mr. Bensons statement. It is just reality in this business that there is going to be between 5 or 10% of your money held. I finished up with Carolina Claims in October and recieved every bit of my holdback, so you guys can put them at the top of your list. As Mr. Benson said read your contract and if you can't live with it, then move aside so that the next man or woman can. Hope everyone had a great holiday, but it is time to get back to making a living.
Dick Benson
Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 10:42 am:   

Santa, holdbacks are a part of this business. If you have been working in this industry for a time you should know that fact. If not then welcome to the real world!

The purpose of a holdback has previously been explained, I prefer not to re-define what a holdback is but, would rather enlighten you to the fact that, in this industry holdbacks are a matter of business. Read the contracts that you sign. Ask questions prior to accepting an assignment, prepare yourself. If the proposal from a vender or carrier is not to your liking then simply reject the opportunity giving someone else the opportunity.

I have not worked for Crawford, GAB, or some of the others mentioned so I will not render an opinion, I have worked for NCA who was mentioned in another post. I can only say I had no problems with this vender, if they call again I will again accept the assignment because they were Professional vender.
David Bennett
Posted on Friday, January 07, 2000 - 12:55 am:   

Too hot a discussion to get involved with, but here I go. As has been stated, holdbacks are used to compensate those adjusters who have to clean up messes left by others. The company cannot bill carriers for these fixes. I have done clean up, some war stories: First adjuster never measured the rooms, just guessed on dimensions, never climbed the roof had a roofer climb and photograph, accepted insured's photos and estimates and then submitted his own report. Could go on but I think you get the point.

Another factor is the local manager of the firm you are working for and his perception of you as an individual and your professionalism.

A lot goes into decisions as to whether honest mistakes which lead to billable supplements, or careless errors or an adjuster trying to wing it when he is over his head and fails to ask for assistance or guidance. We all run into situations we are not familiar with and the worst thing you can do is not open up and seek assistance or advice.

Any way, have never had a problem and in fact have had the luxury of not having a holdback so far.

If one has a problem with the way their holdback has been handled, then suggest you have a face to face sit down to discuss the situation. Also, would recommend that holdbacks be discussed up front prior to working and then make sure you have a copy of the guidelines in writing for your records.

Hope everyone has a prosperous and happy new year.
Russ Lott
Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2000 - 8:51 pm:   

Santa, I am working now not sitting at home wondering how to pay for Christmas, what are you doing? I take pride in who I work for and the job that I do, failing to realize your holdback may be a sympton of your work product.
Don Elkinton
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 6:55 pm:   

Maybe Santa needs to experience the grace found at the feet of the baby Jesus.
Jim Flynt
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 6:49 am:   

Now you know why "Santa" only comes once a year, while Steve, Russ, Don and I stay busy on assignments pretty much all year 'round!
Steve Ebner
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 1:11 am:   

Can't help it, "Santa". What am I supposed to do-- Lie and say I haven't been paid my holdback when I have? What would be the point?
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 12:09 am:   

No Hope!
Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 12:07 am:   

Excuse me! Kiss that As! or what ever. Man! What a group of one way "IDIOTS"
Don Elkinton
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2000 - 9:02 pm:   

While on the subject. I have good reports for Foster & Associates (SC & NC)Mathias-Wimberley (Fla.)& NCA. Most other companies I work for never hold back.
Russ Lott
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2000 - 6:47 pm:   

To WiseinFl,
I too have to speak out at the BS you are pushing. I have not been cheated out of any monies owed me by GAB. I do not know of the suits and will not comment on them. While your Bashing of GAB is your right in this country, you should use your real name. Lindsey Morden has not cheated me of monies owed either. Oh by the way United Storm Adjusters also pays their adjusters, on a timely basis also. Your contempt for GAB is a personal one, or you would use your real name.
Jim Flynt
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2000 - 5:52 am:   

If Steve Ebner is going to "go the extra mile" and give "kudos" to the companies which pay on a timely basis then let me do the same.

I have also worked for Crawford and had no problem receiving my pay on a timely basis.

Further, no one out there provides a more accurate accounting to the adjuster for monies earned than does Mike Worley and Darryl Martin at The Worley Companies. They always got it right right down to the penny.

I am also grateful to Lindsey Morden (now Lindsey Cunningham) for paying me on a weekly basis and with excellent accounting on a regular basis. This kudo is limited to their US operations and does not hold true for their Canadian operations, which quite obviously operate on a different "system" in how they treat adjusters.

Thanks to all of the companies out there who treat their adjusters with the same consideration that they would want to be treated. There are many of more of you than are recognized, and you make working for a vendor a pleasure.

May we all remember to tell the good news about vendors as well as post the complaints about the few bad apples. In the end, nice guys really do finish first.
Steve Ebner
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2000 - 9:31 pm:   

To WiseinFl

Generally, I stay out of this type of discussion, but..... My experience with GAB Robins is very good. I am neither unethical nor inexperienced. The catadjusters and local adjusters I have worked alongside while on assignment for GAB have been neither unethical nor inexperienced. My holdback has never been paid to me later than the 60 days GAB says it will be paid in. I will not speak to the lawsuits (by the way it's not spelled "lawsuites") you refer to. I quite simply know nothing about them. If they are ongoing lawsuits it is unlikely that anyone involved appreciates you telling your version of the case before the suits are either settled or tried. I have many questions about your little anecdotes, but not enough interest in your tirade to ask them. In fact, GAB has even paid me for my portion of files I have turned back at the end of a cat assignment because I was unable to complete them. They have paid me for my part sometimes even when I expressed that I was not expecting payment because I had been unable to see the file through to completion. By the way, as long as I have entered this fray, I have had no holdback denied me from Crawford and Company or NCA either. Woe to the company that tries to keep my holdback without sufficient reason because I can show that very good companies have consistently paid me all that I was owed.
Jim Flynt
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2000 - 5:40 pm:   

Hey "WiseinFl" why don't you use your real name instead of a nom de plume? Is there maybe a reason why you can't tell us your real name?
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2000 - 5:02 pm:   

Jim, that is the biggest crock I have ever heard. Glad to hear you have had no problems getting your holdback but unfortunately you are in the vast minority. If what you are espousing were correct, how come then the RICO suites??????????????????? These guys arenít fooling around fellow and the reason is that GAB is an unethical company. Try looking up the suite records in the Florida FDC yourself as this is where 2 of them are and the third I know of is in Illinois and there are probably more.

I work for several large companies here during the off season and let me tell you that the word is out. Most of us in the position of assigning out to independants would not give GAB a file involving a damaged birdhouse because their adjuster will screw it up. The company I am currently working for caught one of their General Adjusters being wined and dined at a hunting lodge upstate this year by a local contractor. Just about any time of the week I see GAB adjusters being treated to expensive lunches at local restaurants here in the Miami area and I can assure you their part of the tab is no less than $35.00 including many drinks.

Just before the winter storms here we assigned a large apartment complex to GAB for claimed roof damage resulting from hail in Kansas and their top General Adjuster said there was $200,050 in hail damage to it and recommended a roofer. We had the roof reinspected by Crawford and there was no damage. We then had it reinspected by one of the most liberal roofers in town and he could find no damage. You tell me fellow, just how experienced was this General adjuster, or more importantly who was paying the General adjuster off?

And then there was the storm last November where the GAB adjusters with all of their experience were paying here in Florida water claims 20 miles from any body of water saying it was from the storm tidal surge when in reality it was nothing but gutter water. I am still hearing stories like this at our association meetings from other companies. A real good company GAB, not!

Wake up Jim, get real!
Jim Flynt
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2000 - 12:23 pm:   

In defense of GAB, I have worked with them many many times, and I have never had a problem receiving either my paycheck or holdback. The accounting that they provide along with the paychecks and holdbacks is as good as I have ever seen, and I have seen how many other companies do it both right and wrong.

Further, GAB generally will not deploy an adjuster without a minimum of 3 year's experience, although like any other company, they have some damn fine adjusters, some good adjusters, and some not so good (but still learning) adjusters.

As has been mentioned in other posts on this page, sometimes a writer complaining of a "holdback problem", fails to look at his own work product submitted. Having worked "clean up" more times than I would like to remember, no company has a monopoly on either good nor bad adjusters.

The key to improving one's abilities lies in education and other steps aimed at self improvement. I generally find that those engaged in such a course, never really have much to complain about; including finding assignments, receiving their pay and holdbacks, and staying about as busy as they would want.
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2000 - 11:24 am:   

There are many companies who for various reasons will play games with commission checks. Of the major companies, GAB Robins is by far the worst. They usually hire people with little or no experience and get away with screwing them on the holdbacks because they know that they are not going to complain if they want more work.

There are currently 3 class action suites going on against this company and 2 are asking the Federal District Court for permission to pursue this company under the RICO statutes. If you let them get away with screwing you then you have assisted them in continuing their games.

I would have to agree that Piolt is one of the better companies in this regard, especially after they got sued for the LA earthquake mess. It appears that Curtis finally learned what his father (Walter) who started that company learned the hard way.
Jimmy Meredith
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2000 - 7:39 pm:   

I have also worked many storms for Pilot and they have always paid me Promptly, every cent that I had coming.
Over a year ago I worked with a different company that held 10% for 1 year but, I did get it.I doubt if I will ever work for them again.
Tom Weems
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 1999 - 8:29 pm:   

I agree with you completely. Some of the trash that I have seen turned in for payment makes me wonder where some of these guys come from. While there are people out there that will play games with the adjuster's holdback, Pilot is not among them. Most of the time the same people that make you wait for payment until the company pays them, are the same people that play games with the holdback. Hey guys, if you want your money and no problems, ask questions before you say yes. That's why they call us indepentents.......
Jack Wilson
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 1999 - 12:24 pm:   

A couple of references have been made to Pilot failing to pay "holdback" that was due. I have worked many storms for Pilot and they have never failed to pay me the holdback that was due. Further, I have never had a "charge back". In one particular case, Pilot paid me in full when the insurance company disputed the payments they had agreed to. More of you should work "clean-up" and you will clearly see why some adjusters should have their "holdback" retained. Some guys come to a storm and breeze through leaving the files half worked knowing the clean-up crew will straighten them out. Well, if you do that you should expect to loose your 10%. Most of these poor adjusters are protected now since clean-up crews now work on a day rate and there are fewer charge backs.
Chuck Deaton
Posted on Friday, December 24, 1999 - 7:13 pm:   

Is there someway to take a poll regarding payment or non payment of holdback? I see this issue discussed here, but I have never experienced it and have never met anyone who has. Over the last several years I have worked for several different vendors. While I have never worked for Pilot or Colonial I have friends who do and I have never heard them complain about being paid.
wake up people
Posted on Friday, December 24, 1999 - 4:29 pm:   

most the guys this happens to our floaters. They are not first in or first out. It would have to be serious funds to justify a law suit. These companies will not only file apeal after apeal. They will file a counter suit to prove a point. Get your pocket book ready and prey that you are right. And for those of you naming companies in you post I hope you are not using your real name. It is very easy to get what we call black balled from this industry. If you have not figured it out yet the diffrent I a's know each other. be carfull. some of what you say could be considered slander. You do not want that monkey on your back. I know all the companies monitor this page.

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