| Author |
Message |
John
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 1999 - 6:45 pm: | |
I know I may be setting myself up as a "Vendor Punching Bag" but as a sponsor of this site
here goes...
A company holds back money from an adjuster to fix mistakes the adjuster makes while
adjusting a claim. If the problem WAS the adjuster's fault and another adjuster is hired to fix
it, the holdback is used to pay the second adjuster. The vendor company is not required to
give the first adjuster the "first right of refusal" to handle the re-adjustment. Claim issues
come up at the storm site and to satisfy the client, vendors must use "clean-up crews" to fix
both "first adjuster" errors and valid supplemental claims. Many adjusters feel that a phone
call can solve any problem but many times an on-site reinspection by another adjuster not
only solves the problem but generates an "attaboy" letter to the carrier from the insured. This
keeps the vendor employed by the carrier and many more adjusters employed by the vendor
(ie. we all make a living).
If the problem was NOT the first adjuster's fault. The vendor company should bill the client for
the supplemental claim and not penalize the first adjuster for claim-related items that were
not under his/her control at the time of the orginal adjustment. In this case, if the vendor is
not paid by the carrier, or if the vendor decides not to bill the carrier for political reasons, the
first adjuster still should get his/her retainage and the vendor should "eat the supplement".
IN ANY EVENT - if a vendor EVER keeps an adjuster's holdback on any file, the adjuster
should receive a valid reason WHY!!! If the adjuster disagrees with the reason, hopefully
something can be worked out.
When it comes to holdback, honesty with the adjuster is ALWAYS the best policy (even if
it's hard to swallow).
Many years ago I worked for a large cat adjusting firm (that is still in business today) and I
was told when I hired on that I should "forget the holdback $$$ because I would never see it".
Sure enough, they held back 10% of $25,000.00 and I never saw it (and got no reason why).
That never set well with me and to this day I want our adjusters to know why we do what we
do with their holdback dollars (if anything except pay them in full when due). In the event we
don't pay an adjuster in full, the adjuster may not like what we have to say, but we tell
him/her anyway....and we are honest with about the situation. As an independant contractor,
you are entitled to a full disclosure of the circumstances surrounding your loss of retainage.
Don't be afraid to ask questions - we need you as much as you need us!!! |
Karen Murphy
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 1999 - 7:44 am: | |
I, too have been cheated out of my holdback by Pilot. Worse yet, I have been cheated out of direct pay by Bankers in Florida for supplemental work on Hurricane Georges, after sending several invoices for the $800 they owe me. Also, cheated by FWUA on supplemental billing; first they said the supplementals would be T & E; now (almost 6 months later) they are only paying me what the schedule would have paid, if at all. This is through Colonial Claims, who ought to be pursuing the money to begin with. I have been told that I am basically "SOL". What am I paying 40-50% for on the commissions? Surely, if there were problems on the files, anybody could contact me and the insureds wouldn't have gotten their checks........ 4 months after i left the storm, billing is owed on 8 files, between charter and colonial. this is a disgraceful situation, to say the least. |
burned
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 1999 - 10:26 am: | |
Who doesnt pay the holdback? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:30 am: | |
Need some practical advice on how to force an adjusting company to pay holdback on commissions. In the organizational meeting we were told 6 months (which is too long). 9 Months have elapsed and after 6 requests I feel I need to take some action. This appears to be a systematic policy with this company and they have taken the position that the money belongs to them. I have never experienced this type of out and out fraud. Their reasoning (so I am told from a former employee)is: the adjuster will not push hard for his money, for fear of losing future work opportunities. Since I have already crossed this company off my list, this is not an issue. We are talking thousands of dollars in this case, not hundreds. Also, what about interest?
Any ideas? |
RDHood
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:30 am: | |
Your first and best approach will be to implement the 'Berne Agreement" conditions of "intellectual property". If you take the time to peruse the archive section of this CADO page you will find several articles concerning this. There is a international law, to which the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, is signatory. This agreement protects any product that is produced from one's mind, such as photographs, estimates, reports etc. Make sure you have a copy of all of your work as backup, even if you do not , you are still protected. Certain companies do not believe that anyone will persue this, they are mistaken , as I know of one adjuster that used this and had his $$ in a matter of DAYS. This is a FEDERAL law, not state, and you can have the company in a FEDERAL court in 10 days. They will pay or suffer severe consequences according to my information. Best of luck in your quest. |
John Johnson
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:32 am: | |
It appears that your only recourse is to file a lawsuit against the offending company. Depending upon the amount of money due you will dictate in which state court you will file suit. In many states the amount in dispute determines the jurisdiction and venue. For example: Here in North Carolina, if the disputed amount is $5,000 or less you can file in "small claims court", but if in excess of $5,000 you must file in District Court - filing in our District Court is far more complicated and requires a fair knowledge of contract and procedural law. It is not likely that any state's Department of Insurance would involve itself in a contractual dispute. It is just as unlikely that an insurance company who hired the vendor you worked for would involve itself in a contractual dispute.
Practically speaking, you may not have much of a remedy unless you file suit, obtain a judgment, and then execute on that judgment. Might be hard to do if the vendor lives in a state other than yours. Why not identify the vendor to other adjusters? |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:34 am: | |
I have only had this happen once or twice, and like you, I crossed the culprit company off my list for future assignments.
What worked for me was a letter from my attorney advising that we would file a lawsuit and a copy of this letter was sent to the Insurance Commissioner's Office in that particular state where I had worked as well as sending a copy to the major carrier. This copies were noted on the demand letter sent by my attorney. Within 24 hours of the adjusting firm receiving my attorney's letter, I received a call from the adjusting firm saying that my holdback was on the way to me(100%) and that this adjusting firm would not call me for work in the future. But as I noted to start with, this was not an issue as I would not work for them again.
I also advised them that I would make other adjusters aware of their attitude toward paying adjusters and believe that in the long run, we are all better served to identify these companies and by our word of mouth advertising of their practices give them the rope to hang themselves.
Try this first before you file a lawsuit. And, I think if you are willing to put their name up here on the board, they will want to pay you to avoid the embarassment of having other adjusters afraid of working with them in the future.
Let's all work together to put these crooks out of business. There are too many honest companies out there for any of us to be treated like you have been treated.
Good Luck. |
John Smoak
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:36 am: | |
Maybe you could help use all . Drop the name of the company so that it does not happen to one of use. |
Tom
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:38 am: | |
The nice thing about this forum is that you can post the offending companys name for all of us to see. Maybe you can keep one of the other adjusters from having a similar problem.
There are additional steps you can take. You should inform the Department of Insurance, the insurance company and the vender. You should also refer to the following link: http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/bytopic/intprop/circ1.html You have copyright to the material that you submit, and they fail to recognize that at their peril. You can collect damages from ANY party that benefits from the infringement of your copyright, including the adjusting company, the insurance company and even the insured. All of the parties that benefit from the infringement have liability and such liability is not limited to the amount of the service invoice.
This is a very serious step, however if adjusters were more aware of the rights that we have, fewer of the companies would be attempting act in that manner. I suggest you read the material, and acquaint the offending company with the realities of what steps you can take. Also don't forget the mechanic lein. A phone call to the carrier also works wonders.
If you in fact, did a bad job on the files, then you should take your lumps. If they are just stealing your money, go get them. Good luck. If you need any further information, email me and I will be glad to help. |
Chuck Hoffman
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:40 am: | |
Thank you for your post, Tom. I am familiar with the copyright provisions available from the source you posted. All would benefit from the examination of the document fron the LOC. I must state that this is a last resort type option, but if your convictions are set this can give you something that I value more than pecuniary results, that is satisfaction. |
Ben There
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:41 am: | |
You might want to contact the carriers via mail with a cc to the adjusting firm and advise them that if you are not compensated in full that you will file a lien on each insured house that you adjusted claims. That will put pressure on the adjusting firm. If the threat does not work, do it! |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:43 am: | |
Since you were contracted to do your job by the insurance carrier or adjusting firm, you have no legal right whatsoever to file a mechanics lien against an insured property owner.
Check with any attorney. A mechanic's lien (or lien of any other nature) can only be filed for services contracted by the property owner.
If, however, you file suit against an adjusting firm or carrier, if you are successful in court, you may obtain a judgment which can be served for process against the assets or properties of the adjusting firm or carrier, assuming there is no jurisdictional problem created by venue.
Check with an attorney before suggesting an action which has no legal merit or basis. You just cannot do what this writer suggests. |
Ted Woods
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 1999 - 5:43 pm: | |
Jim,
In Canada, we can place a lein on the building that we have worked on. The work was completed for the benefit of the structure, essentially we provided a service to the building. If the insurer or the adj. co. doesn't pay for the service then the equity in the building does. The equity being the residual amount after the mortgage holders and foreclosure expenses are paid. The insured can have the funds frozen in court, but this rarely happens.
There is a time limit of 45 days for placing the lein on the building that you provided the service on. If more than one lein is on the structure, the funds are paid out pro-rata.
Ted Woods C.E.T., A.I.I.C. |
evensteven
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 1999 - 6:01 pm: | |
I have had that happen many times with Crawford, GAB and others. You may never get your money but you can get even. If like many of us you work during the off season as a temporary in the casualty field for some of the major companies, you can refuse to give those companies who screwed you any assignments. I would dare say that I have cost two of these major independents money in the thousands of dollars this year by intentionally not assigning to them not to mention future loss of revenue because their incompetence were pointed out to the insurance companies. Granted it may not put money in your bank but it sure satisfies the ego. |
byte me
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 1999 - 10:09 pm: | |
Well, another man of principals.....good for you guy. If the short sighted individuals that act that way knew how much it costs them every year, perhaps they would think twice.....Revenge is a dish best eaten cold. Hey, adjusters always get satisfaction one way or another.....
The best thing to do is just say no, when they call with their butt on the line. Good adjusters can always get work when there is something going on. |
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