| Author |
Message |
Murphy (Murphy)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2000 - 2:23 pm: | |
SF is the only company I have heard of doing this sort of thing (go figure). Are there other companies out there with the same "blow-it-out-of-proportion" ways regarding this sexual harassment?
The bottom line is this: simply DON'T WORK FOR THEM. As always, they want us to be submissive dogs; and do not think for yourself. Can we at least look at their feet without having to worry????? Probably not..Is that what they want? Probably so...
Besides, the women really ought to get with the program; any line of business remotely related to construction is full of men. Be realistic about what things you could hear, (within reason, of course) and grow another layer of skin. Once again, some females have blown this whole subject out of proportion and are causing grief. Could this be one reason women have been kept at bay within the industry all these years? If so, the guys were right all along in doing so.
I am blonde, female, and been in the business alot of years. Believe me, I have heard it all. The women who scream "wolf" as in the example listed in this thread just make it harder for us females that don't. Thanks alot to you. There is an old phrase: "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"....whether you are independent OR staff. Simple....
remember; I said "within reason"..... |
Tomj (Tomj)
| | Posted on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 11:29 pm: | |
The best advise has alread been posted, you are there to do a job as an independant contractor, stop at the office, drop off the files, review as necessary, and move along. The companies have their teams and the indep cat people are a tool used to get the job done, it is not a social call. |
CADO Staff
| | Posted on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 10:22 pm: | |
Reprinted here from The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website for the education and enlightenment of our readers.
Facts About Sexual Harassment
Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Definition of sexual harassment by EEOC:
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.
Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:
· The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex.
· The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
· The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.
· Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim.
· The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.
It is helpful for the victim to directly inform the harasser that the conduct is unwelcome and must stop. The victim should use any employer complaint mechanism or grievance system available.
When investigating allegations of sexual harassment, EEOC looks at the whole record: the circumstances, such as the nature of the sexual advances, and the context in which the alleged incidents occurred. A determination on the allegations is made from the facts on a case-by-case basis.
Prevention is the best tool to eliminate sexual harassment in the workplace. Employers are encouraged to take steps necessary to prevent sexual harassment from occurring. They should clearly communicate to employees that sexual harassment will not be tolerated. They can do so by establishing an effective complaint or grievance process and taking immediate and appropriate action when an employee complains. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 10:04 pm: | |
Whoa!, Hoss...
Let's turn this around for a second. As I recall from my college Logic course, If A=B, and B=C, then why can't us hairy legged guys collect big bucks for being Shexually His-sassed? Doesn't the shreiking harpie nagging from the office clerical when you come into the office reeking from tromping thru a sewage backup loss count for something? And, how about the dirty and hurtful looks we get from them, when we wander in late in the morning from working an appointment first prior to arriving at the office. We have delicate and sensitive feelings, too. Lord knows how that kind of herd abuse can cause permanent and severe mental trauma!
So what do you say, shall we start the bidding at a cool $500,000.00 to start? Do I hear any bids for $600,000.00? Just remember the adage, What's good for the goose, is good for the gander... |
BigMoney
| | Posted on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 8:17 pm: | |
Yes there is big money in this for women that are actually harassed or less than honest.
Check this out http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/07/28/harassmentfiring.ap/index.html
|
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 6:34 pm: | |
Removed by poster. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 6:31 pm: | |
I must confess, back some 80 years ago, my grandpa was a piano player at a bordello in southern Oklahoma. But after he met and courted grandma, she made him give it up for the farm. Many years and grandkids later, out on the front porch, he would start to tell stories from the good ol' days and grandma would rush out and tell us brats to never you mind about that old mans stories and you go get a respectful job like a street car conductor or something in the Insurance industry.
Now after some twenty-five years, I sometimes stop and ponder. Did I take the right advice after all? These are the things that dreams and nightmares are made of. |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 1:49 pm: | |
Removed by poster. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2000 - 10:36 am: | |
Soooo...the Great Sexual Revolution has quagmired into trench warfare. I had read some months ago that a trend was developing where men are withholding sex from women. This, of course, skewers the gizzards of the editors and writers over at Cosmopolitan magazine whose every issue goads her to have better sex.
Maybe this can be our financial salvation. Let's get into the dirty book and video store business! A lot more money can be made without all the chronic crap from the shrieking harpies in the Insurance trades.
And from a work safety angle, I'd rather fall off a ladder onto a pile of inflatable party dolls than onto a decorative rock and concrete patio any day! |
Barbi Todd
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2000 - 10:57 pm: | |
Just like most other things that get out of hand - the laws behind sexual harrassment started out as a good idea. If an employee is doing their job and obeying the rules to the best of their ability, then nobody has the right to make them feel uncomfortable or inadequate about their appearence, sex, race or religion in the workplace. That's the bottom line.
I'm a female, a cat adjuster and a deputy sheriff. I've specialized in sexual assault and domestic violence for over 13 years. And even with all the horror stories of those whose intentions were grossly misunderstood or those that have been falsely accused - it would be a real shame if the only thing these laws accomplished was making people afraid to talk to eachother in the work place. And sadly, it looks like that is what it's coming to...
As many who have posted here said, the best defense is to "cover your butt" and don't put yourself in situations that could be misunderstood. As the old saying goes - Just one "oh nutz" can wipe out all of your "atta boys".
But education on the subject is a must! Know what is considered right and what is considered wrong.
And know what your legal responsibilities are.
If foul language is prohibited then just don't do it. If there is a dress code, abide by it. But know in advance what is expected of you. If someone starts complaining about off-color jokes in mixed company then save it till after work.
And I wish I could tell you that a false accusation will never happen to you if you do all these things, but I can't. All I can say, from experience in handeling complaints like this, is that if someone is lying it will surface in time.
Not much consolation huh?
But it's out there, it's real, it is a concern and you have to deal with it. Just stay professional, do your best, and that's all anyone can ask... Good luck out there! |
9 to 5
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 11:17 am: | |
The reality is that Cat Adjusters don't realize what has been going on in the office 9 to 5 M-F.
A joke is sexual harassment according to most office policy. I have a friend that was fired for laughing. His co worker make a joke and said "That’s woman’s work. She filed a sexual harassment suit . They fired ,three guys .the one that said it and two guys that laughed. My buddy being one of them. After two months of ass kissing he got his job back by making a verbal and written apology. So its a different world out there and there is only one thing to do. Don't make yourself a Target.
Clinton is the only one that can get away this sort of stuff.
It is in part a power trip by the Feminists and Homosexual activists to promote their agenda.
I am not saying that Sexual Harassment is a good thing. In the old days when Man was his own master any guy that sexually harassed a woman got a good punch in the nose by another man. Respect for woman, children, the elderly, and each other was much more prevalent. |
Cecil Kraft
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 11:14 am: | |
I agree with the Pogo quote.
The "Sexual Harassment" training is good and should be a wake up call for us all. As the different messages show, we need to be careful out there as one can be ruined without having been guilty of any wrong behavior.
Sooner or later all the co's will have this. Brace your selves. |
Russ (Russ)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 8:38 pm: | |
CATSAT your remarks don't fit this touchy feely I am out for myself, and you better watch for me world. It's nice to hear that there are still some common sense people out there. Everybody should go get a Barney hat and sing the Barney song when they enter the CAT office and see how the company's like it. If we are going to be reduced to a cartoon then let's have some fun along the way. |
CatSAT
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 11:15 am: | |
This really sucks in life. We have been scuntinized to the point where none of us know how to treat the other sex! Women are filed on for sexual harrassment as fast as the men. Russ, I know exactly how you feel when you say you were scared of talking to women. I had a few guys on a team once, who were scared of me, then once they warmed up and knew I could pull a punch line as well as they could, I earned their respect and none of them ever tried a thing-sexually! If you can not as a victim of it, stand up for yourself, man or woman...then you are in the wrong line of work. I believe I am big enough to kindly say "No" to advances or sexual harrassment...there is nothing wrong with jokes, stories, etc. and while we are on this subject...who the heck has the energy after being on 12 roofs in a day to worry about *#&^ around? Really, we have work to do...friends to make....respect to earn amongst each sex. I personally have seen some women come on pretty strong to men, which makes it bad for those of us who just want to do our job! |
Chuck Deaton
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 7:31 am: | |
We have met the enemy and he is us!
Pogo |
daBear
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 5:55 pm: | |
Oh please. I just had a phone call from a large vendor about attending a sexual harrasment seminar. Now I know why. Sigh......
I have been busy every time State Farm has called me for the last few years. Sometimes it's better to be busy than to be available. Good adjusters can always have something to do. If they make things impossible for independents, they just won't have any. That might not be a bad thing...
Thanks guys for telling us. Know before you goooooooo......... |
Linda (Linda)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 7:00 pm: | |
Tom, thanks for saying it BEST.
If we can no longer care about our fellow man or woman as a human being and not as an object of the opposite sex, then we all need to check out.
When our world gets to the point that we can no longer be pleasant and cordial with others, regardless of who their employer is, we need to sit back and take assessment of our world; the world we have created.
We have created that world by "letting the other guy worry about it". We, yes, you and I, allowed the laws of our land to become so distorted and disproportioned that we now wonder how it happened. Every time I read a newspaper or watch the news I still am amazed and I thought I couldn't be shocked.
I know that we are all doing the hurricane dance and will probably not be home with our loved ones in November, but we also probably won't be home to vote.
Yep, it's that time again, and once again, we, as Americans, are afforded the privilege of standing up and being counted. I, for one, (that's all you get, just one) will vote absentee just in case. It is a privilege but if we want a say in the direction our world is going, then it also is a duty we should not shirk. I hope you exercise your right.
If I see you, I will exchange pleasantries with you and may shake your hand; I was raised that way. I'm not harassing you, I am just trying to be your fellow man. |
Tom Toll
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 12:48 pm: | |
We, as a society, are allowing false accusations, frivolous lawsuits, and slander/libel, to exist. Until we get off our hinneys and do something about this cancer on our everyday lives, we must face the consequences every day. Drivers tool down the road with cell phones glued to their ears, totally unaware of their driving. Computers are causing more stress than the WWII soldier witnessed. Programs that crash for no reason, other than a lazy programmers input. The first amendment is wonderful, but it must possess some reasoning and common sense.
What protection do we have on for sexual harassment accusations. NONE. We will live with that fear until some reason is applied. We allow unfounded and unproveable comments to terminate a human because we do not want problems with lawsuits. Juries are giving ridiculous judgements every day, because the big boy has deep pockets. How do we stop this sociological disparity. We stand up and be counted. Will that happen, NO!! Most do not have the grit to stand up for what is sociologically and morally right. Is there sexual harrassment. YEP. Always has been and probably always will be. This is from male to female and female to male. It has no boundries. How do we stop it, DON'T DO IT. We, as the intelligent human species have lost all sense of reason and common sense and decency. This is the world of the fast paced, I care for no one but myself philoposphy. Lets start by caring for yourself, (not selfish) and after we learn how to care for and love ourselves, then and only then can we care about others. Put in some extra effort to help your friends and let them know that you do care for them. I am 60 years old and just recently counted the TRUE friends that I have amassed over that period of time, friends that I know would come to my aid if necessary and they know that I would reciprocate. I have 14 true friends. Most have only three. What is wrong with this picture folks. Think about it. Please. |
Russ Doe
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 6:21 am: | |
Removed by Moderator as duplication. |
Russ Doe
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 6:24 am: | |
Being a retired Naval Officer,I went through the sexual harrassment Training for five years.I was afraid to talk to a female because of the repercusions it could cause me.I have been in situations on early appointments where the mrs insured is not dressed(fully).I politely tell them I will inspect the exterior and give her time to get dressed.The society we live in today is prone to believe any accusation of a man sexually harrassing a woman.The term sexual harrassment has too many meanings to too many people.Eye contact is NOT sexual harrassment.Getting sexual favors because of your position IS.Take charge of an inspection, NEVER let yourself be put in a position thats Questionable.If a file goes bad,they will use any means to discredit you!I know adjusters who carry
voice activated tape recorders.It may be a good tool to use to record what actually was said.I hear its very good pratice when a P.A.and his contractor do an inspection with and you have no witnesses to what was stated.I have always found that,Just doing a good job is enough.Getting friendly with the carriers staff people is not a good thing.Let your supervisors deal with the staff!!!Remember even an accusation can ruin your career! Dont let youself be put in that position! Have a great day!!Be safe. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 10:05 pm: | |
How 'bout this,
1) No eye contact with any State Farm employee.
2) Speak only to them in hushed tones, barely above a whisper.
3) Avoid all possible conversation and contact with them.
4) Always Sir or Ma'am them, just like in the Army. (With the femininas, this will really un-nerve them. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is more of an insult to younger women these days than having a equal age or older MAN call them Ma'am! It gets under their skin and infers that they are old and no longer attractive as women. They are in effect, castrated of their femininity. I enjoy this tactic more than any other, for they cannot object to being treated so 'respectfully', all the while, having their egos ripped out.)
5) Drop off files in the morning and pick up messages in the afternoon to satisfy their requirements but say nothing to anyone. While there, drop your gaze to the floor to avoid eye contact with anyone. For morning or afternoon greetings, make it a practice to use as few hushed words as possible, and leave immediately.
6) Parking lot conversations with fellow troopers should be as far away from the company kids cars as possible, to again, avoid contact with them.
7) At orientation meetings, segregate yourself from the company kids. Sit as far away from them as you can.
8) Never stay at the same hotel/motel/apartment the kids do.
9) Avoid bringing your wife/helper into the office.
10) Have your vendors site supervisor ride along with you and the company RT in order to provide a witness for you while out in the field. |
Rj (Rj)
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 3:21 pm: | |
In 95 when we arrived to Dallas/Fort Worth hail storm we were informed by State Farm management at their orientation meeting that they fired the entire staff cat team. Then they offered a contractual position to all of these people to supervise the Independent Catastrophe Adjusters. They stated that they expected a lot of friction & wanted us (Independent Catastrophe Adjusters) to be aware of the situation.
Well needless to say this brilliant move on the part of State Farm did in fact create a rather poor work environment at best and it has gone down hill ever since then.
From my own experiences I know that they (the fired staff & possible management) wanted Independent Catastrophe Adjusters to be deaf, dumb, submissive & stupid. It appears now that they have added blind to this list.
The only advise I could offer you (from my own experiences) if you are considering working for certain carriers as an Independent Catastrophe Adjuster is if you can act dumb, love a brown nose, be totally stupid & submissive and love every minute of it, then, go to work for them. If not then don't, it's as simple as that. Play the game according to the cat staff guide lines as the behavior rules are made up or don't. This is your employment criteria not your knowledge, experience or abilities.
As for being Black Balled (Black Listed) from working for a certain carrier or vendor, don't worry about it. Be smart and begin your own list of vendors & carriers that you refuse to work for. Good adjusters do not need to worry about the few bad apples in the barrel. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated by a supervisor that tells you that unless you do exactly what he tells you to do you will never work in this industry again. I can tell you from experience that the number of carriers &/or vendors that will treat you like this are very few & far in between. Good Independent Catastrophe Adjusters don't & shouldn't have to put up with this kind of treatment. We are professionals and as such should be treated with the same kind of respect that is expected from us.
Now they are trying to take one of the best tools away in telling if a person is lying. That is by observing body language, by taking away all eye contact & saying it is sexual harassment. A possible solution to this is to file a sexual harassment complaint against every female that evens begins to look at a man. Same standard right. Before long this ridiculous behavior will put the carrier out of business as no one will be left to get any work done. Every one will be fired.
The theory is if no one is suppose to look at any one else then, I guess, the dress code doesn't matter anymore. If you can not look, you can not see, because according to police there is nothing to look at. If there is nothing to look at then it doesn't matter, if it doesn't matter, then why wear anything at all since no one can see. Because if you do look you will be fired. This whole policy doesn't make any sense does it. When management losses all common sense then policies are developed that take things to the extreme. From your post CYA it appears that the carrier Cat Staff or management has finally reached that level of absurdity in developing behavior policies or could these just be the absurd policies of the Cat Staff that was fired then rehired under contract?
Anyway, don't be discouraged by this bad experience. View it as a learning experience and move on. In time you will realize you were made a better person by it. Before you accept your next assignment you now hopefully realize the meaning of a well know phrase created by JF "Know Before You Go" |
Stormadjuster (Stormadjuster)
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 1:55 pm: | |
In all seriousness, I think Dave is correct. Most of these problems can be avoided by common sense. Just last week I had a loss where an insured could not keep an appointment. She had asked if I could inspect the loss alone with her 16-year-old daughter. I really wanted to complete this loss but decided to reschedule with the insured. I simply told her that I felt she should be present when I make my inspection. Who knows what could have happened if I was there and the daughter later made allegations of improper conduct on my part. In the past I have also been exposed to situations where there were large sums of money or jewelry in the open, when I did my inspection I asked that the insured not leave the room. I simple refuse to be drawn into situations that would place me, or my principle in a compromising setting.
I understand that allegations of unfounded sexual harassment charges occur each day. Unfortunately, we live in times where situations as these are rapidly increasing. As I see it is risk management in it’s purest form, how we choose to control these risks will ultimately determine our success in this business. The first objective in risk management is to know your risk, I believe the earlier post by CYA clearly states this. The next step to recognize the risk and minimize your exposure. As stated earlier avoidance of these situations and taking the necessary steps to protect you as the claims professional is key. |
BeentheredonethathavetheTshirt
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 1:31 pm: | |
Next time you are anywhere near a State Farm Cat Center, open your eyes and take a look around. The only reason half of the managers and supervisors are where they are is because of quota systems. Were it not for their skin color or gender, many would be lucky to be hired as grocery store bagboys. It is certainly not due to intelligence or competence that they are now working for SF.
Also while you are doing that, keep your ears open as well. You will hear them telling off color and dirty jokes among themselves, but that is ok. They are staff.
Bottom line is we are making more money than they are, and they know it.
Bottom line is we work harder than they do, and they know that too. They resent it because it makes them look bad.
Bottom line is they (staff, managers, supervisors, SF adjusters) don't like us. They would prefer that we not even be around. Don't ever forget that.
And as far as State Farm goes, I say "screw em." I don't think that comment rises to the level of sexual harassment. After all, it's ok for them to "screw us" with working conditions, pay, and their condescending "overseer" attitudes.
Where I grew up, if you are going to dish it out, you better be able to take it. |
Victim of Circumstance
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 12:14 pm: | |
I was charged with sexual harassment and let go. I did a small claim for a SWF and two weeks down the road was accused of sexual harassment, files turned and told to go home. At home I received a call and was told there was a mix up. QC came behind me and made the phone calls to set up a appointment and the SWF thought it was me ignored the calls and had called head office. No apology, no compensation, the damage was already done to my reputation. Just had to chalk it up to living in today’s society. By the way Storm trooper don’t complain, make a joke or exaggeration of their sexual harassment policy you will then become a instant target. I like your idea of the sunglasses though. Has anyone else ever been accused of sexual harassment falsely I would like to hear your story. Once charged with it no one will believe your not guilty you will have as much rights as a Jew in Nazi Germany, believe me! |
Dave (Dave)
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 11:28 am: | |
One simple answer:
"Refuse to work in an environment that places you, your fame or fortune and reputation in jeopardy."
Many have done so in the past for other reasons, and more will continue to do so when this becomes more well known.
Thanks for sharing this with all of us, new and older alike. |
Stormadjuster (Stormadjuster)
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 10:20 am: | |
Dark sunglasses, straightjacket, a mouthful of peanut butter and of course castration “Yikes”. Man it’s really getting scary out there. |
CYA
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 12:22 am: | |
Sexual Harassment
State Farm will be watching this year for any type of sexual harassment. The word has taken on new meaning now in its definition. Warnings do not make eye to eye contact or eye to body contact with any female that is working for State Farm. Try not to make it look obvious that you’re not looking at them either ( you don’t want to insult them either). If the State Farm watchers feel your being a sexual harasser by looking at there body parts you will be let go by the thousand ways State Farm has in getting rid of Cat Adjusters they don’t want. You may never realize that it was for sexual harassment. It’s a New World out there and State Farm is implementing a higher level of what the sexual harassment criteria is. Making direct eye to eye contact with one of their female employees denotes sexual and romantic interest while looking at the breast or genitalia is direct sexual harassment. If you’re a black man be extra cautious while talking to a black female as in your culture the lingo is more earthy and can be interpreted more readily as sexual harassment. Others are watching and from what I understand there will be cameras set up for monitoring. The best thing to do is talk to Male State Farm employees and be polite but distant to the females.
Your job your reputation and your lively hood is on the line, you don’t want to get black listed or end up with civil or criminal proceedings against you. Try to explain that one to your wife and kids if you do end up being charged. If you think that it will never happen to you cause you’re a nice guy and every one likes you your in for a rude awaking. When your out in the field where there are plenty of honey traps or woman that would just love a out of court settlement from an insurance company for 30 or 40 thousand just an all they have to do is falsely accuse you of sexual harassment. As if you don’t have enough to worry about going to a cat be careful and consider this one. Where there is big money the truth becomes very cheap.
If any one has any suggestions on how to avoid it out in the field please respond . |
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