| Author |
Message |
Trent Massey
| | Posted on Saturday, September 18, 1999 - 2:14 pm: | |
The certification for Farmers lasted less than one day. It consisted of the Farmer's National Catastrophe Center ( NCC ) coming to the vendor who sponsored the course and putting the cert. class on. Four hours of reviewing material and about 2 hours for the test. It was easy. It took about one month to get my grade/certificate. The vendors that Farmers use per the NCC is Wardlaw, Eberls, Pilot, and NCA. Wardlaw is in Waco, Texas but the other addresses can be found on this website. Good Luck! |
Lucy
| | Posted on Saturday, September 18, 1999 - 12:38 pm: | |
Does Farmers have a certification that is similar to State Farm? I am new to the business, I have State Farm certification but did not realize that you needed one for Farmers also. Can someone please tell me what companies sponsor the Farmers certification and when the exams are offered? Thank you. |
Trent Massey
| | Posted on Saturday, September 18, 1999 - 2:52 am: | |
This is my first time to post here, and it concerns a carrier. I don't mind mentioning a carrier when done in a positive manner, but otherwise I might refrain. First, to let you know my background, I was a staffer with State Farm for 7 years before leaving and starting a reconstruction company which I maintained for 5 years. I closed my construction to pursue a wild dream of going to law school. I did that for one semester and realized that another 2.5 years of missing time with my wife and family was not worth it, not to mention the amount of time lost while building a career. I returned to adjusting as an independent and have done so for 1.5 years now.
After getting back into this business as an independent, I did like everyone else and got my certifications. I have worked one Farmer's Insurance storm since getting certified, and I scored a 97 on my checkout with team leader. Per the team leader, it was one of the highest she had ever given. My vendor told me most don't score out of the 70's. So I am thinking right away that this will be one more door that my efforts have opened up. So far the jury is still out. I have mentioned my score to other Farmer's vendors and it usually falls on deaf ears. My experience with Farmers was excellent, and I look forward to going back to another storm with them. Fortunately, I remain busy with other vendors working for other carriers so the situation doesn't bother me so much. However, I would hope Farmers could do more to request certain adjusters based upon their previous performance. Maybe they do already, and I just don't know it. The vendor that sent me to work Farmers still calls me regularly, so that isn't the problem. I would be interested if anyone has had a similar experience, or perhaps a Farmers' manager from the NCC could email me with advice on the situation.
I would like to add something to the comments I have seen shared by others. I think if you ask 10 policholders about their claim experience with any company, you might get a variety of responses representing good and poor. Sometimes the differences can be caused by the adjuster alone. A good adjuster can make a bad insurer look better, and a bad adjuster can make a good insurer look terrible. This idea I think holds true for team leaders and independent cat. firms. I have been lucky with the exception of one storm to have worked with some good team leaders and cat. firms, and I feel for those who have not. |
Leonard Boys
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 1999 - 9:59 pm: | |
Don, I just read you're post concerning your experience with Farmers NCC in Shawnee Mission. I too was a part of the "dungeon" team for approximately three and One half months. Like you, I was told I would be working a day rate. I was working through Eberl's Claim Service. They were not getting paid any more than any of the other vendors. Upon arrival, I was surprised to learn that Farmers was going to pay on a per file closed basis. I voiced my concerns to the Eberl management. They indicated to me that they would guarantee their original commitment of a daily rate and they followed through with that promise. The last I knew, they were still trying to collect from Farmers. I am sorry you had such a bad experience. There are, however some companies that have some integrity and honor their commitments to their employees. |
Don
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 1999 - 11:04 am: | |
In my last statement on this matter, I would like to reiterate the purpose of the original post. What can we learn? And how can we be better adjusters? I learned much valuable experience from my time at the NCC. I believe I stated that. I know I am a better adjuster because of this assignment. As I stated, I appreciated the patience on the Farmers Managerial Staff. I think too many IA have the "us versus them" mentality. Believe it or not we all need each other.
Now that the certification issues discuused under this heading are lumped together, it has opened up an entirely different can of worms. Certifications are a valuable asset to the companies and the IA. We really do need to educate our own industry. We are only as strong as our weakest links.
Unfortunately writing in this forum allows for attitudes to be judged simply by the written word.
And that written word is interpeted by the reader.
I have learned a valuable lesson. Observe and reserve comment.
Let's us this board to encourage and build up our industry. And remember print is forever. |
Chuck Hoffman
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:56 pm: | |
Mr. Deaton: It's my understanding Farmers has purchased Zurich, but will operate as a seperate unit. This merger also provides Farmers with a market base here in the Northeast, we are seeing media advertisement to support this action. You are correct, Farmers does require certification. This doesn't mean they won't use personnel without it. I know in OKC when the panic button was in the on position there was talk of calling in non-certs to handle claims, whether this actually manifested would be speculative on my part. |
DICK BENSON
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:52 pm: | |
For 29 years I have lived by the following words, "INTEGRITY PAYS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHEAT TO WIN!" After reading your comment it's refreshing to know others have the same ideals. Yes, money is very important, but other issues are equally important. EXCELLENT POST |
Anon
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:12 pm: | |
Chuck you are right the files may have been handled by CERTIFIED adjusters.
But as everyone knows, being CERTIFIED BY A COMPANY (SF, USAA, FARMER'S, FWUA, NFIP) is a real JOKE.
There is absolutely no correlation between CERTIFICATION and ABILITY/KNOWLEDGE. |
Tom
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:11 pm: | |
Dick, Could I impose on you to email me some info on the commercial est school. I have also been around a long time but with the everchanging and innovative construction methods espically on commercial structures its hard to keep current. Thanks |
DICK BENSON
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:09 pm: | |
I would agree that certification is notwhat it always seems, but credentials are a necessity in todays business world. After 29 years in this business I recently returned to school to become certified as a commercial estimator, not because I couldn't write commercial loss's but for the certification and the LEARNING EXPERIANCE, and current practices and proccedures. Did I learn somethings? Yes I did. "OLD DOGS CAN LEARN NEW TRICKS"! |
Stormy
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:07 pm: | |
i have the farmers certification and the learning experience was worth it. even though i have been arround a little while, i gained from the course. wether i ever work for farmers again is another question. I drove a long ways to OKC for less the 15 (no claim) files, my lead wanted less then i turned in (I have pride in my work product) and newby's were trying to do total losses. if this is how farmers runs there cats. well , i'd have to think long and hard before i leave home. I cnnot aford to lose money on a job more then once a year. I only hope someine from framers will see these postings, or better yet someone from zurich. If we have the skills to do a good job, we will find work without the farmers of this world, and they and their insureds will be the losers. |
John G. Hooker
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:06 pm: | |
Certification is a very good ideal for the insurance companies. They need to make sure that the people handling claims have some kind of experience. I took my certification test for farmers and met a really nice fellow . He was a fishing guide.......Surelly there should be some kind of guidlines on hireing adjusters. I worked several storms and met very nice adjsuters that never seen a claim in their life, they came from all different backgrounds none of which was construction, insurance restoration, something besides fishing guides...that of which aggrevates me highly. I know everyone needs a shot but they should have some type of background.... that fits the catastrophe adjusting buisness. |
Chuck Hoffman
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:03 pm: | |
You are correct in your observation that certification is not an accurate indicator of ability. However, it is not a joke, to the contrary it provides insight into the specific policy nuance and handling requirements expected by the provider. At the very least it may instill a "cookie" which might be of value to the adjuster handling files for that carrier in a non-typical situation. I hope you do not allow your disdain for certification to be a detriment to yourself or someone you may influence. No learning experience is a waste of time. Good luck |
Tom
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:02 pm: | |
It does get irratating hearing "once I pass this so and so said that they would put me right to work, I'll make all kinds of money, it'll be a lot better than delivering flowers or the job before that delivering lumber" |
Don Elkinton
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:58 pm: | |
RR, I would agree that certifications are an excellent way to increase ones knowledge. But as some have alluded to, people with zero experience and no industry knowledge attend these meetings, take the tests (that are not geared for accuiring knowledge, but passing the exam). I took my Farmers Certification @ Eberl seminar in Denver and observed the sons of a few adjusters who knew absolutley nothing and still became certified. I think this is where the humor lies, sadly. Food for thought and apprectiate yours. |
RR
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:55 pm: | |
I FEEL THAT BEING CERTIFIED IS BY NO MEANS A JOKE.
I FEEL THAT THE CERTIFICATION TESTS HELPED ME AND I'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR 15 YEARS. I ALSO KNOW THAT THE LARGER COMPANIES ARE REQUIRING IT.
TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR PROFESSION AND BE WILLING TO LEARN MORE.
MY OPINION IS THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ARGUING ABOUT OR REJECTING TO TAKE THE CERTIFICATION TESTS ARE PROBABLY THOSE WHO HAVE FAILED THE TESTS OR JUST NOT SUITED FOR ADJUSTING |
Anon
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:55 pm: | |
Chuck you are right the files may have been handled by CERTIFIED adjusters.
But as everyone knows, being CERTIFIED BY A COMPANY (SF, USAA, FARMER'S, FWUA, NFIP) is a real JOKE.
There is absolutely no correlation between CERTIFICATION and ABILITY/KNOWLEDGE. |
Charles J. Hoffman (Charles)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:54 pm: | |
Thanks for the clarification. |
Don Elkinton
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:34 pm: | |
Chuck, thanks for your response. Not wanting to mislead anyone who may consider this assignment. All closed files are now paid at the rate of $ 50.00. Adjusters portion $34.00. Realistic closure. 10 files a day. 70 assigned a week. 7 days a week you can keep up. 70 X $34.00 + $ 2,380.00 less expenses.
Chuck hearing good things about you. Looking forward to meeting you and perhaps working together down the road. |
Stormy
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:52 pm: | |
zurich owns farmers zurich owns sears does or did sears own allstate does zurich own allstate who's on first whats on second i don't knnow whether to be confused or scared but what the heck, where a cat i need work |
R
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:30 pm: | |
AMEN |
Don Elkinton
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 8:56 am: | |
Sorry, if there are typos, etc... in the first post. Little hands sent my post prior to finishing.
4. Pride in product. Whether you are aduster or examiner. 5. Learning something from every assignment. This to me was worth the assignment. I appreciate the opportunity from NCA, the patience from Farmers managerial staff and especially my partners in the dungeon.
In summary: Will I ever work at the NCC again? To hard to tell this close to finishing assignment. Am I a better adjuster from the experience? Absolutely. Will I recommend it to anyone else? Two came on board only to be sent home with no expense money or anything after 3-4 days, still reeling from that and feel bad. So, I am allowing this factual statement be my position.
Recommendations: On Every file. Address every situation conceiveable to man in your activity notes. Do so until someone in authority questions you and tells you exactly what they are looking for. Imagine you are the examiner or re-inspector reviewing your file. Contact, contact, contact 24 hour contact a must! Don't ever compromise doint the right thing for the sake of closing a file. Fear of not getting anymore files or simply to boost your revenue. Ask pertinent questions. Too many adjusters "know it all" and really don't.
Well that's the short story of my NCC eperience. The most important issues are not the carrier or the adjusting firm, but what can we learn from others experiences. |
Din Elkinton
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:49 pm: | |
What is really interesting about the Zurich connection is that Zurich also owns Sears. Sears repair facilities are suppose to work with Farmers adjusters on pricing. Can you beieve that? I believe OKC adjusters were cetrtifed, but many at the NCC are not! |
Chuck Hoffman
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:42 pm: | |
Thanks Don, the sentiment is mutual. I am sure our paths will cross in the near future and I look forward the occasion. Best regards. |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 5:47 pm: | |
A quick online check with the A.M. Best Insurance Service confirmed that Zurich Financial Services OWNS Farmer's Insurance Group and operates it as a subsidiary. Zurich is one of the largest insurance companies in the world and Farmer's is not. |
Chuck Hoffman
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 9:03 am: | |
Mr. Elkinton: Thank you for your post. I did the math and my calculations indicate you signed on for under $20.00 per file. I was able to review some adjuster files while in OKC when meeting with my lead, and I must admit I was astonished by the poor product, some being nearly unintelligible with absolute disregard for professionalism. I am surprised you were able to conclude files at all, and I am even more surprised that the files you worked were reviewed and signed off by a Farmers adjuster, acting as a lead, without requiring a rework. Again, thank you for your candidness in regards to your experience with NCA and Farmers. |
dave kreifeldt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:22 pm: | |
Thanks for the nice note. It is interesting how companies will mislead, not relate all information etc when hiring. I worked for farmers thru another independent in MN appraising cars. Rate was twenty dollars a car on a drive in basis, approximately 20 a day. Upon arrival, we found we had to greet the insured, inspect the car, write the estimate, which was fine. That is what we are paid to do. We then found we had to settle the claim, fill out claim forms, fill out pill payment request, fill out a bill etc. What they expected for twenty bux was not what a reasonable person was willing to do. Espically when they combine appraisal and adjusting functions. We even had to figure used hoods (they probably were not available. hail falls on scrap yards too.) Anyhow, while i respect your integrity, i must wonder if you are not treated with honesty, what then, do you owe????? By the way, i am again retired for health reasons. dk |
Joe W. Rasco
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:29 pm: | |
Don:
I am sorry you were in such a situation. This is just something we all should think about when a situation such as this happens to us.
I agree one should never leave a storm until he or she has finished or worked down to two or three dog files that will not close soon. However, as an independent catastrophe adjuster, I don't think anyone can fault one for leaving a storm when an agreement has been changed in the middle of the stream so to speak, or the situation has been misrepresented. The only word or integrity affected is the other parties. Of course, when one finds this is the situation, one should decide to leave or stay and do just that then or get things straight.
The situation you were in was misrepresentation but as you have stated, it was not you doing the misrepresenting. The problem with staying in a situation like this one, is that if enough do this, the companies and the firms will see they can get someone for less than a livable rate and this is pretty much what has happened over the past 25 years since I first started trooping. Besides, you probably don't want to work for this firm again if they do not relay all the facts to you up front.
If we are to do this job, we need to be well compensated for selling our lives like we do. Money isn't everything, but we need to protect ourselves and our profession. Remember that we have retirement to face someday. If everyone would straighten out a situation such as this or walk when the work has been misrepresented to us, I believe those hiring us would be discussing problems honestly before we agree to travel to a storm.
Many of us do not feel that we can ask questions about assignments when we are called. Frankly, I respect the adjuster that ask the proper questions before he or she excepts the assignment. I have been on both ends. |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 9:01 am: | |
Don,
Thanks for an incredibly valuable and insightful message which all of us should read and heed.
Being from a state approximately 2 days drive from Kansas, I found myself wondering what I would do if arrived on an assignment (with a 4 day drive round trip required) only to find out that I was only going to make $600.00 per week at the end. That would not even cover the living expenses for most of us while there and if we factored in our drive time days, our per diem income would be even lower than for someone like yourself who lives near the assignment.
Thanks again for sharing Don. You have given us several thought provoking questions that each will have to answer for their self. |
R.D. Hood
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 6:31 pm: | |
Don, Having been with you in spirit while you were in the "dungeon", and having our occasional chats, I must pause to give thanks to you, for sharing what must have been an extremely difficult task. BUT, knowing you and others that were, and are still there, I can only congratulate you and the ones that stayed for proving to all that their is integrity, perserverence, dedication and commitment alive and well, in our world. Im proud to be your friend and associate. Thanks, from all of us that really care. |
Don Elkinton
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 1999 - 7:09 am: | |
After much thought and consideration, I am providing this posting for informational purposes only. The only disclaimer I provide is that I took this assignment (as with all I take) voluntarily. Many items in this post appear to be relevant to discussions of late in this forum.
In mid-June of this year I accepted an assignment from the NCA Group to work at the National Catastrophe Center in Shawnee Mission, Kansas (15 minutes from home). This assignment was to pay $ 400.00 a day, 6 days a week or $ 2,400.00 a week. Not storm wages, but a decent wage to stay home and prepare for oldest daughters wedding. Upon arrival and first day of training discovered that $ 400.00 a day was tied directly to 14 PROBLEM files a day. We were to be paid on "assigned" files. It didn't take long to calculate that there would come a point where I would be required to stay additional time "gratis" to finish assigned files. It is imporatant to note that I couls have left but chose to stay. (Integrity my word, etc....). Side note: As I teach my children, we are not motivated to respond to lifes situations based upon fear of reprisal (getting caught) or what the other fella does, but what is right. So, do the math $400.00 a day divided by 14 files X 68% = approx. $ 35.00 a file. These were some really messed up files! Everybodies opinion and anger was vented towards the IA (independent adjuster). I saw the problems through a different set of eyes. How did these files get past the examiner? Yes, with proper training, adjusters need to be held accountable for incomplete files. I could see I was in for a tough assignment!
After about a week, I began to have a good working relationship with the other adjusters in the "dungeon" our workplace. Soon discovered they were paid $ 480.00 5 days a week still $ 2,400.00 weekly. An oversight I suppose. Also found out they were running about 60-100 files behind. Most cold close 8-10 files a day, but at 14 a day, they were working 7 days (getting paid for 5) just to catch up. It was only towards the end of my stay did I find out the other vendor was receiving payment for 7 days a week (paying their people that) while they only received files 5 days a week!. While the work production was the same payment was approx. 40% more. Important note: I agreed to work for $ 2,400.00 a week, so while not thrilled, I did not believe I had any recourse but to fulfil my assignment. We need to have schedules, percentages and payment dates solidified prior to acceptance of assignment. ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS.
On July 1st, our "contract" changed. We were no longer going to be paid a daily rate (based upon assigned files) but on "closed files". Flat rate billing of $ 50.00 or $ 34.00 a file. Really a better way of paying but we still had dozens of open files in which we had already been paid. Note: This was only for NCA people. The other vendor negoitiated a 2 week rollover period and on top of that their people were paid on all open files at the new rate of $ 50.00 even though they were paid on a true daily rate. It is important to know what is available as an IA so you can make inteligent choices.
After 30 days I was about 120 files behind. Approximately 50% of those were prior to 07-01. So I spent the next three weeks cleaning up old files and being paid about $ 600.00 a week on closed files.
Understand this, the purpose of this posting is not to discuss Farmers an a carrier. They have there business to run as they see fit. I also must say the NCA has the right to negoiate with their customers as they see fit. I post here as an old dog to open up for discussion the bigger questions. 1. Understand your assignment prior to going or even being put on standby. 2. Personal Integrity (keeping our word). |
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