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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2004 : 22:38:49
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| Funny, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I give the check to the insured. He hires you. You do the work. You get paid. Where's the extra work in that. The only time I even need to talk to a contractor is if his prices are to high or our scopes are different. I prefer not to talk to contractors. I have better things to do with my time. It shouldn't matter who is paying you. You should charge what is fair. Period. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 22:57:32
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Demigod: Little, if any, of the paperwork you spoke about has to do with you. It is paperwork that the insured is required to provide to the company. If you do it, it is as a convenience to your customer. Don't you provide an estimate and a final receipt to cash customers? Doesn't a cash customer need a certificate of completion and/or a mortgage company inspection?
Would your company increase their price if, found after the job started, they learned that it was funded through insurance? I agree with Kile, you should charge what is fair. "Parts is parts." |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 22:59:50
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| yo, If i have to account for an HOUR or TWO longer EXTRA longer to install a roof for my client because I have to give ADDITIONAL instructions to my roofs. Asking them to take EXTRA CARE and EXTRA TIME so as not to harm or damage the in most cases Aluminum drip edge an valley metal which by the way is completely full of holes, buddy your paying more for that job. It's costing more and it's coming out of some one's pocket. So who's pocket should it come out of. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 23:05:50
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| So an hour or two is worth 15-20%? |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 23:18:50
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Ok i guess im just lying then guys. I really don't have to provide all this addition services to get through a job im just making it up to justify why im greedy. pfft.
Come do my job for a summer and then post what you said about how much you know about what I do. Competition dictates that I provide and deal with some of these things in order to be competative. It's additional work and if it's not monitored and kept after we'd never get paid anything other then the acv for the job. The facts of life about this are most homeowners are clueless or don't care about how quicly we get paid when the job is complete and in many cases, "but not all". We or the home owner must on repeated occasions make additional phone calls re submit the same paperwork over and over bla bla bla. It's not the tight and neat picture your painting. And the impression i'm left about how some insurance folks deal with the claim after they have made acv payment leads me to believe they don't care one way or the other how soon the contractor gets paid. Perhaps you feel your gonna catch me by coming back and saying you were once a restoration contractor. Well that was then and this is now, what I explained is the reality of if for me and all my co-workers.
Many a day's I though, hmm maybe I'd try becoming an adjuster much less to deal with. No colors to pick no clients trying to get double referal fees on and on. But then I'm sure I am wrong for thinking your job is so clean and neat and tidy, and that thier ton's of stuff I don't even know you have to deal with either. So just take my word for it I do and must deal with all those things I mentioned beucase it just is or I don't earn a living. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 23:29:06
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alan,
No I would not charge 15-20% extra for the hour or two it would take my roofers to not harm or damage the drop edge or valley metal. Come on dude im not one of those "other" roofers. seriously your tying two post's together to make me look like that. please im not stupid do not treat me that way, or maybe your a little dim and need to read a litte more deeply my supremely inteligent but grossely mispelled post that are full of grammer errors. :P |
Edited by - DEMIGOD on 04/16/2004 23:44:34 |
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 00:30:04
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| Demigod: I, for one, agree with you that extra time should = extra $. I think part of the rub with us adjusters is that quite often, roofers cause us extra work for which we get no more $. Way too many times adjusters are required to reinspect a roof which had been "no claimed" because conman, the contractor, told the policyholder that the roof is a "total". The adjuster dutifully returns the policyholder's phone call, plays phone tag with the conman, finally sets an appointment to reinspect together, arrives at the risk at the appointed time, waits 15 minutes for conman to show up, spends another half hour with the conman looking at an undamaged roof. Then the conman admits he never really got on the roof before and there indeed is no damage. That, or the conman had looked at the roof before but decided to take you on a fishing trip. Then the adjuster usually has to do some sort of a write up of this additional unnecessary activity. This is 99% of the time a freeby the adjuster had to work because of the billing schedules we work under. During the time spent for this unpaid endeaver, the adjuster could probably have inspected a claim for which he would have been paid. Whaaah. Point is, you are right, it aint always so neat clean and tidy on this side either. |
Larry Wright |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 01:01:12
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Larry,
Man i know that happens to you and yours in the industry. Just like it cuases me more work when an adjuster misses things on a claim and I have to go back and meet him on a reinspect.
Here's is how I see it. I hate to argue with an adjuster over damage so I only work in damaged area's. I don't take the attitude of why should I make the decision for the adjuster, sign every home owner up that had any indication of hail damage to the property. I'm not a crusader for the home owner. On the other hand if my own house had to weather a hail storm I'd be stupid to make the decision for my insruance company and not file a claim, not doing so would be bad faith on my part as a policy holder and unsound finincially, as my permiums are paid for some one else to assume the risk.
Anyways that's a whole other subject. But yeah I have alot of extra things to do becuase insurance is involved so to cut down on the amount of time I have to work on each file I only work in heavily damaged areas so Im not having to argue about damages, that only leaves room for dissagreement over scope and cost's.
And actually under much consideration and meditation this year I"m going to stop meeting with adjusters on initial inspections, even if the adjuster asked to meet me. It has finely occured to me how selfish it looks and how selfish it is to feel I must be presant at the intial inspection. And how it feels to have some one looking over your shoulder on almost every job you as an adjuster goes to. God i'd friggn hate that!
So what I have decided to do is leave a detailed inspection report for my homeowner and for you! It will list in detail the results of my inspection to the whole property from the roof to the foundation. Anything I spot hail damage to is noted for you. My reasons behind this are not becuase I think adjuster don't know how to spot hail damage, most do. It's just my way of saying, I know you have ton's of claims here's what I have found hopefully it makes your inspection go easier and smoother and you won't omit anything that could also possibly call you back.
I believe that most adjuster will respect me more for this change and begin to recognize that when I call for a reinspect that they remember he's the salesmen leaving those reports and thier accurate so if he's calling for a reinspect then it's reasonable. = )
Case in point: I worked the Dayton storm and dealt with alot of USAA claims. I worked in a subdivision that had roofing, gutters and window sashe damage. Well a few of the USAA adjusters beat me to some of my first cleints in the neighborhood so when I showed up and examinded thier scopes they all had left out gutters and windows. Well after about the 8th reinspection and a little forcefull talk over the phone telling them they better come out and see me or they will eventually hear about it through other avenues they agreed. After that no more problems with scopes in that neighborhood. These guys weren't trying to cheat any one they just didn't do a very detailed inspection of the property.
So for me it's the here's your inspection report, give a copy to your adjuster to assist him in identifying the damages to your property I'm not here to look over his shoulder. And I'd rather my home owner look over your shoulders and not me. hehe
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 09:10:03
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Well, I have to admit Demigod, that the above post is a good way to approach things. I, and most adjusters I know hate to have to meet with a contractor on the first inspection. Just coordinating and having to wait for him to show up or have to call the homeowner and the contractor if you are running late can be a realy pain in the but. I'm also used to working alone. I have a system and if I'm having to listen to someone talk or answer questions I get out of my groove and forget to write stuff down, forget to take photos, forget to take measurements. It only takes one missed measurement or photo and you have to get the ladder out again or if you are already at the office when you notice it, drive back out to take a risk photo.
I'd much rather just be handed the contractor's estimate and go over it once I've completed my scope. If he has anything that I don't then it's really easy to check it and quite often I find stuff that they missed. |
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 09:26:47
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Demigod,
I started working construction when I was 12yrs old during the summers with my father. (My earliest memory goes back to when I was about 3 years old and I was using a rock to drive a nail in my dad's workbench.) I put myself through college and law school while owning my own construction business in West Texas and later in Houston. A certified installer for PROCO (EPDM roofing) who repaired the roofs on the Coast Guard facilities at Ellington Field,TX and in Charleston Harbor (HUGO). Incorporated business with 4 divisions covering virtually every area of residential and commercial construction. On and on and on.....
My point is, there is not one thing you can tell me about the costs involved in the construction business that I have not personally experienced myself. And that can be said for a large number of the more experienced adjusters you find on this site. I agree there are bozos working on staff at many carriers due to their desire to keep costs down but I also know that there are many 'contractors' who are poorly educated and whose only claim to construction experience is they own a pick-up and know which corner to find their workers on.
If insurance work is such a headache, why is it the work of choice for many contractors? It is because they know the money is there. Get ready for a new day when you see the deductibles start rising all over the country like we have here in Texas. When I have to pitch in $4500 (my deductible for Clause 1 perils) and State Farm pays $2000, I'm the one you will have do some serious negotiation with, not the carrier.
People need to realize that the responsibility for the damages and repairs lie with them as the homeowner, not some contractor. I would never tell a contractor "You go deal with my insurance company and get what you can, just tell me later!" This is MY home and that is MY responsibility!
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Kevin Hromas |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 09:28:34
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Kile,
I'm not talking about leaving an estimate, I'm talking about a damage report. Our company does not provide estimates becuase were not in the business of estimating anything. We agree upon pricing after a complete and through scope of damage and scope of repairs is agreeded upon. Every client pays the total amount of the proceeds they recieve from thier insurance company plus the deductable, no hagling, no rebates, no free upgrades. So no reason to estimate anything.
Anyways I'm looking forward to trying my new concept to see how it pans out in a storm. If any of you come across a pre-inspection damage scope then you'll know it's me! = ) |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 10:02:21
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Demigod, I have to take issue with the business model you have proposed. I had a company doing that exact same thing on the storm I'm working on now. They did mediocre work for a few months. Just enough to get the job done so prospective clients could drive by and see the new roof and siding were installed. Then they got a bunch of people to sign contracts with no pricing on them, endorse the check for the insurance proceeds over to them and left town with thousands of dollars and many people left in the dust with damaged property that may never get repaired.
It is a common scam. I'm not accusing you of this, but if you plan to do business this way, please be advised that you will be lumped into this group of gypsie contractor, and I'm sure you don't want that. I tell all my insured's to get an estimate in writing from 2 or 3 contractors. Don't show them the insurance estimate until you've seen all three estimates. Once you have the 3 estimates look at them. If the scopes are the same and the bottom line is the same as my estimate, pick the one you want. If the scopes or prices are different contact them and ask why and if they can't answer you or have legitimate reasons for the difference in scope or price, have them give me a call and I'd be glad to discuss it. I always tell them, NEVER sign anything until you know exactly what it's going to cost and be sure to get it in writing and NEVER pay them everything up front. If you have to, give a deposit for materials and pay the balance when work is complete or if it's a larger job, pay them as work progresses.
I know that you probably don't like that, but I've seen so many people burned by contractors that it is just in the best interest of the homeowner to do it this way. After all, the carrier and the homeowner are the parties to the insurance contract. The carrier is watching out for the insured's best interest, not the contractor. |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 10:21:05
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kile,
It's cool you that you ask home owners to get estimates. But from my experiance if a home owner has three or more trades involved it begins to get very difficult for them to obtain three estimates for each trade and they end up getting confused and frustrated by being stood up by some many contractors.
Just so you know, we do not do anything other then an inspection without a repair agreement in place. Becuase countless times we do alot of work for a home owner only to be told the contract went to the give away artist.
Also just so you know, we perform everything we say were going to do for a client before we get ANY money. We take all the risk up front, we meet adjuster, we order materials, we install, we make sure homeowner is happy with work then we collect. On multipul trades they pay in full as each trade is complete.
We are members of the BBB with an outstanding record of performance and we encourage our prospects to check us out throughly before making a decision if thier hesitant. We don't hide the fact there we are from out of town and we don't go in and buy some jack leg roofing company. We feel theirs nothing wrong with chasing storms that that we provide a valuable service by putting poeples homes back together. In many cases we find that the locals are the one's that home owners should exercise extreem caution in doing business with. They like to start jobs and then leave to before completion to start another job so they don't get cancellations becuase they have signed up more clients then they can handle out of greed or for whatever reason. We do enough roofs in one season that would take a regular medium sized roofing contractor 2 or maybe 3 years to do.
Anyways I'm rambling on, cuase I'm proud to work for who I do and I'm proud that I provide a valuable service to my clients.
Your last statment about best interest's, I agree totally.
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LarryW
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 10:50:13
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| Demigod: I like it. You make it sound as though you are living up to your name. You are right about the local contractors also. My experience suggests they should be treated with as much caution as out of town contractors. There are buggers everywhere. I tell homeowners it doesn't matter how many estimates they get because mine is the one which will be used to settle their claim. I recommend they show my estimate to their contractor and to ask the contracter to call me if they have a problem with the scope. It is surprising how few calls I get from contractors challenging those estimates. This process fits well with your business model because the contractor never needs to spend his time writing an estimate. I agree that adjusters should make their initial inspection without a contractor, that way there is no biased input. |
Larry Wright |
Edited by - LarryW on 04/17/2004 11:01:22 |
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DEMIGOD
99 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2004 : 11:47:40
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Thanks Larry,
Of course my best case senario would be to meet every adjuster have them agree totally 100% of the time with me because I'm better then them at what they do! haha. j/k. It just doesn't fit any more to meet with adjusters on initial inspections, no matter what my perspective is on the matter and why I say I'm there to meet with you, which by the way would be as I stated before to get an agreement on the scope of damages, and scope of repairs. But still even this as benign and benevolant as it is, is beginning to look bad and unprofessional in sorts. It identifies us with all those young bucks who know less about hail damage and covered loss then ever before. We don't want the kind of association. We want to work in such a way that we are "SET APART" from our competition while still performing the same service. So no more initial adjusters meetings, which drastically changes my pitch to home owners and paints the adjuster more as the professional that he is, instead of the he's out to get you and will deny your claim with out my presance, which is fear based selling for which most of my competators are known for.
Fact is, if you deny it and it's damaged your coming back, or some one is. It's gonna get covered so why worry about the initial inspection. So if you come across my damage report take it in stride and use it to your advantage as a tool to help you be more accurate on your assesment of the insured's property. hooah! If you see my reports come across your desk several times and you realize that after being at the home that my report is pretty accurate, your less inclined to suspect me when I ask for a reinspect. hooah!!! |
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Roof being replaced, other charges.
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