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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2004 : 00:43:48
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| Gale, there are other reasons for licensing. One is the generation of revenue. States often do this. Another is the to represent someone as being qualified. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 01:34:20
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| Yes, the problem is there is not a license to show adjusters are qualified that I am aware of in the US, just to collect a fee. |
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olderthendirt
USA
370 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 08:21:46
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| Hmm a national Cat license administered by an adjusters group. While we could create such a beast, would we be tough enough to make it mean something and could we sell it to the industry? |
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MRichardson1952
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 09:51:24
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It might be easier to "sell" it to the State Legislature under the promotion of "consumer protection", even in those states that don't license adjusters, the law could regulate the company's selling policies to the very people that may "vote" them back into office!
You'd only have to sell it to one state for others to pick up on it. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 15:34:26
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Since career CAT adjusters can’t make up over 1% of the adjusters in the US why should 1% of you foot the cost of doing this for the other 99%?
The NAIIA, NACA and other groups all have something to gain out of moving Adjusting from a "Trade" status to a "Profession" status. If on average all groups of adjusters in each state could raise $5K total then that would give the group 1/4 of a million dollars to get moving to get the job done. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:07:39
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Ok, if I understand your argument correctly, we can lay all of our problems on the lack of adjuster licensing requirement on those 17 states which have no requirements for insurance adjusters to be licensed within their states.
Now if this is correct, then we should be able through a poll of insurance carrier claim departments, a review of litigation arising from insurance disputes, and perhaps a survey of adjusters working clean-up determine the accuracy of such a theory.
Assuming then the theory that adjuster licensing (or lack thereof) is the variable that determines whether an insurance claim is handled properly or improperly by any adjuster, then surely all improper or incompetent adjusters would be attributable only among a pie containing 17 pieces (those same states with no insurance adjuster licensing requirements).
Without being critical of your theory or methodology, my own personal observations and experience leads me to an entirely different set of conclusions regarding causation.
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"Pursue Your Values. Accept No Contradictions." |
Edited by - JimF on 01/02/2004 16:33:12 |
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dhouse
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:10:25
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| Gale, you have made some very good points here, but there is one point that still needs to be clear. Just having a "Professional" designation is not going to make a company pay more. In order to earn more per claim the adjuster must rely on the companies they hire out to. These cat companies are going to have to set the bar. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:13:04
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| I am talking about doing this in all 50 states since in a professional sense none appear to licenses requirements. |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:19:17
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Gale, can you please clarify your last post. Maybe it is me, but I am missing the point you're trying to make.
What exactly is it that you are proposing to do in all 50 states? (that is not being done now) Please share your thinking.
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"Pursue Your Values. Accept No Contradictions." |
Edited by - JimF on 01/02/2004 16:27:17 |
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dhouse
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 16:51:40
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There are currently 2 startup organizations working to provide a Professional Designation on adjusters that I have read about. However, I can not remember the names at this time. I am all for a "Professional Designation" if the requirements are proper, can be monitored, has a process to handle the complaints etc. But this in itself will not provide more pay. I am a staff adjuster that has been in charge of cat assignments for our small company for six years. As long as there is competition amongst cat companies and cat adjusters etc, the price will always go to the lowest bid. My personal preference is to give the claims to the firm that does the best job for the best price. Isn't that the way it has been done? Competition for the job brings about the pricing. Not the designation of the adjusters. Now, as a prior post suggested, cat adjusters not taking losses for a set time period, would that cause a price issue? It could, however, it could also cause more carriers to go with Newbies and trainees and in effect, freeze out the experienced cat adjuster. Could also cause the carriers to really develop stronger contractor programs. What the answer could be, I don't know. This is a very interesting thread.
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 19:28:58
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Doug your points are very valid. To answer Jim’s question all I am talking about going for board certified adjusters just like other professionals have. We are not talking about how much an adjuster gets paid but that the carrier/vendors will know the minimum standards an adjuster is certified to have demonstrated. This is nothing more than plumbers, dentist, barbers, etc have today.
Some on this site think the carriers are screwing themselves by using new hires right off of the street and that the total payout by the carriers would be less if the job was done right up front instead of legal issues developing later because of the poor job of estimating done by the untrained, inexperienced adjusters. That may or may not be the case but only the carriers would know. It is my thinking that the carriers may better understand their business than some outside of the carrier think they do and you may be able to address that issue.
If one out of every 3, 10, 100 or 1000 copies of our estimating software did not perform at the same level as the other copies we would be out of business. This does not seem to be the case with CAT adjusters. The pay rates are often equal but the performance varies greatly from adjuster to adjuster.
Perhaps adjusting is much simpler than adjusters realize and they do not add the value they would like to think they do. Personally I think the adjusting industry has for some reason never sold itself to the carriers the way the accountants and lawyers have for example. I have to admit I do not understand why a new untrained adjuster would be hired before one with training and experience at the same wages.
Being able to take a weeklong class and become a licensed adjuster does not even start to address if the adjuster can adjust. It would seem that it would only be a starting point to start an apprenticeship. Plumbers and Interior Designers, etc have to do an apprenticeship before they can hang out their shingle.
Since all of us work for the carriers directly or indirectly perhaps finding out what they perceive be their needs would be a logic place to start researching. Perhaps it is true in some carriers the Claims department is looked down upon with disgust but I know some quality carriers were the Claims department is looked as an extension of the Sales department when it comes to renewals. Our 90% renewal rate is based to a large degree on the job our Technical Support department does when it hits the fan I know for a fact.
The adjusters want more direction in their destiny and should have it. Today because there is a lack of accountability on their part they do not control of their future as they desire. Most adjusters I know are hard working men and women that take their responsibilities seriously but they have no way to distinguish themselves in the eyes of the carriers from those that do not.
Is not this the overriding issue guys?
What they need to do to be respected by the industry is the question. Being board certified may or may not be the answer or only part of the answer.
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J G Cournoyer
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 21:56:15
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| The use of the word professional has been over rated here. A license means little. Many doctors & lawyers have a license, yet patients die & innocent people go to jail from time to time. Professionalism starts with an inate sense of duty, integrity & a need to see others treated as equally as we would wish to be treated. A strong work ethic & experience are very important also. I do believe many staff managers prefer cattle to people that understand policy. I was at a small cat in Iowa a few years ago, & had a staff manager tell me I was the only adjuster addressing debris removal. 2 days later, upper mgt. agreed that we all should be addressing debris removal. I was the only independent there. |
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dhouse
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 22:39:56
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I agree that a license means very little. However, a true pro designation that is backed by high and strict standards would mean something. Whether it has meaning to the individual or company is another issue.
I do agree that a very skilled adjuster will remember the little things that really and truly are needed for any loss. This type of knowledge will in effect, save the company money in the long run although the loss payment may be higher, but it is proper. This saves carriers the added expenses for lawyers and bad faith suits down the road.
Would carriers be willing to pay for the use of "designated professional" over a non-designated one? That would truly depend on the direction of upper management. If they are looking at the bottom line from all aspects, no. However, if they are looking at the bottom line from a stance of pay now or pay later, yes. Would they be willing to watch the expense side increase some up front versus a lot later? Would vary from carrier to carrier.
I believe that I have read in several posts from some members that I have come to respect, that they will write each and every estimate giving the insured every thing that should be allowed on each estimate and allow the carrier to make the final decision. That is one aspect of a true professional adjuster. One who knows the policy and knows how to truly estimate a loss. However, it does not stop there. A true professional should also know how to deal with people from all aspects. The list could go on indefinitely. Be true to thy self.
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J G Cournoyer
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 23:28:18
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| "Be true to thy self" It really is that simple. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2004 : 23:34:27
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Doug there would only be one group for the carriers to choose from legally and that would be the "designated professional".
Sure has you can hire an unlicensed electrician, so could the carriers hire unlicensed adjusters. If I hire an unlicensed electrician to tie in a sub panel and my house burns that night and my neighbor is my agent's brother-in-law and he reports what he saw me do then will my carrier care that I did an illegal act if the fire marshal reports the fire started in a sub panel? By the way I love run on sentences :)
Would your carrier openly commit a crime to save a dime? No more than they would send a trial lawyer into a courtroom that had never passed the state's bar I would think.
If it was legal to use lawyers that were not licensed to practice in the state they still would not use a lawyer that had not been reviewed by his peers.
The strange part is all parties would be better off. The carriers would be more profitable due to more professional handling of claims and should see lower total claims handling expense and higher client renewals. I may be wrong but I think carriers are paying through the nose for lame adjusting upfront and on the back side as well.
If a carrier account had issues with our software or wanted some training classes on site and I just called up the Employment Office and said send me over a couple guys I can send half way across the country to do some computer training but make sure they can use a computer or have a brother-in-law that might have used a computer then would our carrier account be pleased or feel we screwed them over?
How does an insured feel when a carrier does the exact same thing to them?
Do you think maybe there is a lot of "non-thinking" going on in the industry?
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CAT CLAIMS CENTRAL
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