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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2003 : 08:27:20
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Hehehehehehehehehehe!!
Only the steep and high going to the staff adjusters.
Sure!
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe!!!! |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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C Bond
32 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 10:06:01
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The carrier I am currently working for has insisted that roof inspections be done from the roof,irregardless of pitch or roof type. This includes claims that make no mention of roof damage on the loss notice. If a tree is down in the yard, they want photos and inspection of the roof. As a newbie, I'm willing to comply with the customers request, up to a point.
I have no problem walking a 7 or 8 pitch. However in the PA area there are a lot of 2 1/2 an 3 story roofs steep pitchs that can't be accessed without a 40' ladder. First of all, I currently do not carring a ladder that large, and second if you can see from the ground that there is no damage, why take the chance.
The carrier has informed us that in these cases we are to instruct the insured to hire a roofer to assist us in accessing their roof. If insureds are having trouble contacting roofers to put on roofs,how successful do the carriers think they'll be getting a roofer to help with an inspection. Also, when we get this snow in the PA are how can anybody photo roof damage and close a file.
Would appreciate any feedback from those of you that have had eperience with similar issues. I have found this site to be a valuable source of info. Thanks for the help.
Chuck Bond
Independent Adjuster
Currently working from Exton PA |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 11:20:24
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Chuck, for the all encompassing insistance of a roof inspection, regardless of the roofs' applicability to the claim, the carrier is getting you to perform a loss control / underwriting review function; in my opinion beyond the parameters of the claim fee account.
Given the approaching or present state of winter in your work area, and the carriers demands that you have noted; it seems like it is going to be a long haul to close your case load.
It would be my opinion that the carrier within your scenario is taking advantage of adjusters. Unless the fee schedule is way above average or high, and your costs are way below average or low; you are likely in a losing situation. |
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Steve_One
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 18:36:40
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As I said earlier, know your worth! If it's such an easy thing do to, let your claims manager climb the roof!
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Edited by - Tom Toll on 12/08/2003 06:45:05 |
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C Bond
32 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 20:58:49
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CCarr, Thank for your insight into my situation. I have since contacted the my supervisor and have gotten a clarification on the claim handling guildlines. The carrier has requested that if the roof can not be traversed for inspection, a clear and abundant reason for not climbing the roof should be given in the report.
This guildline was also made during Isabel. At that time I assumed that this was due to the tendency of some adjusters turning in too many roof claim inspections done from the ground. As was discussed in various places on CADO.
My current situation seems to be a result of parties on both sides of the fence trying to get something for nothing. First the adjuster, by cheating the scope process, and second, the carrier, by insisting on over-the-top inspection guildlines that in essence provide for a free underwriters inspection as Mr. Carr has noted.
Clayton, I agree with your opinion. And NO the fee schedule doesn't provide for these services. However as an up-and-coming adjuster, who does both CAT and local work, I dont believe it would be prudent for me to protest this situation with much vigour. I'm willing to pay my dues for a while.
Perhaps in the future, both I and CAT adjusters in general will be able to protect themselves from this type assignment smoke screen.
Once again thank you for you input.
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C Bond
32 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 21:16:12
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| I noticed that I have incorrectly stated my employment relationship. I am employed by an international vender via 1099 which has negotiated the fee schedule. Its not like I could haggle with the carrier. |
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sflorig
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 14:45:20
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Personally I have never given one claim back because the roof was too high or too steep. I have the proper climbing equipment and a 32' ladder. If I am uncomfortable with a roof for any reason where I would fear for my safety I enlist help from a fellow adjuster to hold the ladder, tend the ropes, dial 911, whatever.
In the current storm adjuster climate it has proven to my advantage to be a complete adjuster. This means arriving on a storm site with the proper equipment to do the tough job, the knowledge to perform the job, the right attitude and the ability to provide a professional looking and accurate work product. It sounds like I am overstating the obvious however I have worked steady for more than the last 14 months. I know of fellow adjusters who work the same way and they have been busy too.
If two adjusters have an equal quality work product and it comes time to make cuts do you think the cat site manager is going to pick the self-sufficient adjuster who has not turned any claims back in or the one who has turned back in files with a note that says "Too steep" or "Too high" ?
There is no reason these roofs cannot be inspected safely if you invest the time and money for the training and equipment that you need to do the job. We are talking about approximately 1 hour of instruction from an experienced climber at a climbing shop or rock gym and about the cost of a good 3 in 1 printer for the equipment.
Well that's my 2 cents worth.
I hope everyone has a safe and prosperous new year!
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 16:21:17
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Sflorig,
Nicely said, even if I disagree with you.....Yes one should be a "complete" adjuster, but I think that there are more than several definitions of "complete"...in your scenario, I must applaud your bravado and determination....but in the grand scheme of things does your willingness to accept a high degree of risk justify the fees that are paid for your services??? Does the vendor pay you extra for the steep and tall and use of climbing gear??? Does the carrier /vendor pay a greater fee when you and a buddy adjuster tackle that tall and steep??? If you are doing all this for the same fee as the one story, reasonably pitched roof, than are you not diminishing your value as well as the value of the other CAT adjusters??? Are not adjusters like you the reason that the fee schedules are low but the file requirements so high??? Just questions, not personal attacks. Insurance companies will pay $5,000-6,000 day in and day out for a "Consulting firm" to advise whether a sinkhole is on an insured property, and never complain....yet we place ourselves at risk of serious injury /death and in order to get an extra $25.oo from some companies for a "steep" charge, we have to take a photo with a pitch gauge to show that we are being truthful......Something is very wrong......and yet within our own ranks , we have the "complete" adjuster willing to do tall and steep without extra compensation or without the vendor providing a team to do the job correctly????? No wonder the fee schedules are sinking ........ |
Edited by - jlombardo on 12/07/2003 16:23:58 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 20:51:37
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That's right, Joseph. And...the key element here is that Federal Code requires the employer of those of us on W-2's to provide ALL of the safety gear and a safe working environment. I realize that Steve Florig has invested heavily in training and equipment, my thrust is to say that he is paying for what the employer is supposed to provide, (if he is on a W-2 payroll). That is the aim of 29CFR1910 and OSHA, to enforce compliance by the employer to prevent deaths and injuries to workers from unsafe working conditions. A tall, steep roof is an unsafe work environment. It requires special training and equipment to keep the worker safe, that's you and me. That is the responsibility of the employing vendor, or for Jennifer and Catdaddy, the carrier.
Remember OSHA goes back to 1971, it is not a new concept. We here in the CADO clubhouse want you to be safe and healthy and not another name in our Hall of Rememberence. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2003 : 21:04:45
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People slide off of their cushy chairs in offices and slip and fall in an aisle at walmart. Mail carriers get bitten by dogs. It's a dangerous world. That being said, I am an adult. I know what I can and what I can't do. I take responsibility for my own well being. I understand the risks involved in life and I also understand the concept of risk/reward. I don't know about you guys, but I am well compensated. If I wanted to be safe and cooped up in a cubicle my whole life I'd take a dead end, 9-5, 5 day a week job and be bored out of my freakin mind all week only to risk my life driving to and from the office everyday.
The government intrudes into our lives a million times more than our founding fathers ever dreamed they would. Our beloved republic is turning into a socialist nanny-state and nobody seems to care. The government needs to keep it's nose out of my business. I'm a big boy and I can decide what's best for me, thank you very much. Let's leave Uncle Sam out of this. I pay him plenty in taxes. At least when you pay the mob protection money they leave you alone. Uncle Sam takes it and then tries to tell you how to live and work.
The less government interferes in my job the happier, and wealthier, I am.
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 06:58:18
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Kile,
On the point of government inteference, I tend to agree with you.However, Please bear in mind that you heve worked mostly, if not exclusively for State Farm since becoming a Cat adjuster some 3-4 years ago and you have been with only one vendor....great position........State Farm usually pays well and is generally concerned with the IA s well being, However, the majority of Cat adjusters, for whatever reasons, generally work for more than one vendor and more than one carrier.....many are not overly concerned about the wellfare of the IA and look upon us as somewhat expendable assets......The point that I was trying to make was that of the "risk/reward" issue that you touched upon in your above post....We as a group should have some general parameters as to fees vs. file requirements and limits of risk......GB feels the fastest and most efficient way to get there is to use government mandates that are already in place to make the vendors and carriers be more response to the rsk/reward concept......this of course is for the majority of us, as not all can work for State Farm........ |
Edited by - jlombardo on 12/08/2003 16:01:48 |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 08:24:51
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My good buddy, Kile, it just so happens that the 'safe and boring' office environment you refer to has a large percentage of work comp claims arising from, but not limited to; trip & falls, carpal tunnel syndrome, electrical shocks, falling objects, etal. Not to mention all us hairy legged goomers being subjected to nagging and sexual harrassment suits from repulsive clerical, male & female.
The office is safe and boring??? That snakepit is the reason why we'uns stay out here in the field, away from all that mess! |
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okclarryd
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 17:33:52
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This is really interesting. Some of us are willing to climb nearly anything and some of us aren't. I have noticed that I am one of the more vocal ones that won't get on something I'm uncomfortable with. Bless those that do the high and steep.
Way back when.........when I was young and dumb and full of _______ , I used to run out the back of C 130's with a couple hundred of my best friends. Or go out the side of a C 144 Starlifter.
Today?? Ain't no way. I don't know if it's old age, better judgement, realizing that I'm not invincible any more, or what.
I agree that if the company want us on those roofs, that there should be an adjustment in the billing or provide the equipment and training. Or both. I do a lot of "free" stuff on my claims mainly 'cause it makes my job easier. And it's getting harder and harder to bill for some of this stuff.
I guess my point is that I do 99% or more of my assignments on hail and wind, even in Richardson or Plano, but some of 'em just spook me and I turn those back. I don't make a big production out of it, I just don't do 'em. And I have helped those that will. For free. Ya just never know when ya might need a favor.
All of y'all have a Merry Christmas. |
LARRY D HARDIN |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 22:06:26
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| Its always the old gray heads talking about steep & tall roofs. In 40 years I have seen a bunch, and never had a problem getting my roof claims thru, until I heard the words "you will not be paid unless you shot down the roof from the ridge" This was 5 years ago when I told my manager guess I was too old to see the need to walk the ridge. Changed carriers and still do it the correct way(safe) and get all my roof claims approved. Change carriers folks. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 08:30:07
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Luck of the draw, all I am getting is 12:12 two-story in the eighty square range. Mossy slick and no handles, I have managed to get the jobs figured, without falling.
Right now I am trying to stay alive and don't have time to argue about what the pay is or who is going to provide the safety equipment. I figure when the time is right, if I don't like the situation I'm in, they will miss me.
I had one lucky break, a one story, 2:12 on a slab. Other than that all have been 12:12 in the past three weeks. There is an unwritten law, when you get old and ugly you get the steep ones.
It is time to get some "Cougar Paws" and a new rope. I am going to tie the rope around my neck so if I fall I wont have to suffer while they put me back together.
Kile, lets talk about fishing or better yet, GB and I could talk about the advantage of a toddy or two before every climb. (Everyone take me serious now) PILE ON!
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Safety and roofs
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