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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
 Posted - 10/19/2003 : 16:39:29
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As far fetched as it seems ( I seriously doubt that satelites will be used to inspect roofs in our lifetime)even if it comes to that, someone needs to look at the photos and interpret coverages. How are your satelites going to scope interior leaks? How will they find all of the damaged garden gnomes and gazing balls that have been damaged and are now under the carport, out of satelite view? What about houses who are cover by tree canopy?
Believe it or not, we are the face of the insurance carrier. I don't care how technologically savy our insureds become, they still want to see a friendly face at the door with a firm handshake. I don't think that will ever go away. As much as we are an instrument to implement the terms of an insurance policy, we are also an insurance companies best advertisement. How many times have you adjusters gone out to a claim and found damage the insured never even considered, like window wraps or dented shutters or all kinds of other little things that Joe Homeowner just doesn't think about. Those little things really do mean alot to the goodwill of the company. Do you really think that an insured will accept a phone call saying "Well, we looked at your roof with our satellite and there is no damage, thanks for filing a claim and please call on us for your future insurance needs."
I don't see that day coming anytime soon. |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 16:43:38
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Intimidated by someone who types so much and says so little. More like bored.
Who do you consult and in what area is your expertise? |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 17:53:41
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Catdaddy,
You wouldn't understand.
Just like Kile thinks he's indispensible - he'll love the pay for sitting there looking at HD roof photos. Roofers have more job security than that. At least 75% of the roof claims in most hailstorms have no interior damages. So they don't need an interior visit.
Avoiding the questions seems like where I came in last time, Kile. Wanna bet on the tear off math? Anybody? Agreed scope? If the contractor doesn't agree then you can't defend the net tear off. All of your, "it works out" arguments die when proof is required that the size is correct.
Bet me.
Just checked in to see who you mental giants were were ganging up on this time. Still no substance and no proof. Take heart, Todd. They can only feel better about themselves by hammering you - you saw how most of their hail damage and granule loss and fractured mat theories were destroyed in a heartbeat.
I can't wait to tesify against one of them that pulls out that baseball sized hail diagram showing it blowing at a 30 degree angle! The jury will think their at the Comedy Club!
Does anybody out there realize a well-struck golf ball is affected about 1% in distance for each mph of head-on wind? That means a shot that would carry 150 yards on a calm day might go only 135 yards into a 15 mph wind.
With that untested, unproven directional hail theory being used to buy partial roofs today, that means Nolan Ryan woulda hit the dugout with his fastball anytime the winds from left or right field got over 20 mph or so. Hear that Nolan? With the wind behind you, there woulda been a hole all the way through the catcher's mitt.
Read an article the other day that called the directional hail theory "junk science". Met a guy who has video of large hail coming down and crossing paths with other stones but NEVER at more than a 6 degree angle even though the winds were gustinmg up to 40 mph.
Kinda like that story about catching some dude making marks on a comp roof with a number two lead pencil by examining the roof with a microscope. Published it in Claims Magazine they did. With you guys believing in Fairy Tales like that, is there any wonder I laugh when I come in here?
You all should get out more! |
Lon |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 18:13:46
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Well, Lon, I have already pointed out that the price that I am using for tear off includes the waste. If you can't understand that then your IQ can't be nearly as high as you claim it is.
Now, as to your directional hail diatribe, are you telling us you have never gotten on a roof and found hail damage on one slope and no damage on another slope? I know you are a roofer but have you ever looked at siding that is damaged by hail? It is almost always damaged on one or two sides but rarely on the opposite two sides.
Is it your contention that it is impossible for wind driven hail to impact a steep roof at a different angle and therefore impart different forces on slopes facing in different directions?
Please, enlighten us all with your amazing IQ. Oh, if I can find my MENSA card I will scan a copy and post it here. It's been several years since I got it and I seem to have misplaced it. |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 19:36:35
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Lon, I wouldn't understand? Are you an astronaut?
Well, I am sorry you don't have the intelligence to explain it to me. Maybe we can figure it out together. Answer these questions, if you can, and maybe it will come to you.
1. Does your office building have golden arches on the front?
2. Do you stand on the back of a truck and empty big cans into the rear when it stops?
3. Do you find yourself in rooms with men that seem REAL friendly?
See if that jogs that big memory. If it doesn't, don't worry. We'll come up with something.
CD |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 20:11:22
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Lon, there are aspects of your posts I either agree with or would like to see for myself. But the tone of your writing comes across as combative and abrasive, and I do not think you are aware of it's impact. I believe this is what is generating the heat in your direction.
May I please ask that the heat be turned down and a current of civility return? Otherwise, we're gonna have to hose down the campfire. |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 20:28:53
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Kile: "Well, Lon, I have already pointed out that the price that I am using for tear off includes the waste. If you can't understand that then your IQ can't be nearly as high as you claim it is."
Kile, you keep confusing the size of a square with pricing - unit pricing requires a price and a unit not some hybrid, nebulous "my price includes that" song. How come the pricing surveys don't ask for a price to tear off that includes the extra money you SAY you include?
Weak argument, Kile. Your square must change sizes because the unit price does NOT and the surveys (he he) that supposedly compile those prices don't relay that information or explain that it should include extra volume, either.
It would be so simple to bet on this but you're afraid to face up to the challenge.
Kile: "Now, as to your directional hail diatribe, are you telling us you have never gotten on a roof and found hail damage on one slope and no damage on another slope? I know you are a roofer but have you ever looked at siding that is damaged by hail? It is almost always damaged on one or two sides but rarely on the opposite two sides."
Kile, Kile. We are talking vertical surfaces with siding. The course materials you study do NOT make a differentiation about slope nor do they admit hail falls in a multi-directional manner. In fact, the study material says without reservation that there will be more damage on the windward slope than the leeward slope.
I'm sorry but the house has to be sitting at a precise angle, the winds have to be sustained without swirling, the hail must fall at the precise angle of the roof's directional orientation and large hail simply does NOT do that consistently. We've all seen the smaller stuff blow sideways and we've all seen the smaller stuff rake two sides of an air conditioner's coils or the siding but gravity and downbursts are the two BIGGEST factors governing the attitude of large hail - not surface winds.
Kile: "Is it your contention that it is impossible for wind driven hail to impact a steep roof at a different angle and therefore impart different forces on slopes facing in different directions?"
The previous paragraph answers most of the above questions but large hail impacts even OPPOSING slopes with direct hits because the major direction is down and the angle seldom exceeds 10 degrees. Even with 10 degree angles (lots of video to back up even smaller angles of incidence with large hail), the roof receives a number of direct hits on ALL slopes. You'd have a better chance of convincing someone of the directional BS if the hail were golf ball sized or smaller.
Kile: "Please, enlighten us all with your amazing IQ. Oh, if I can find my MENSA card I will scan a copy and post it here. It's been several years since I got it and I seem to have misplaced it."
Jealous are we?
As for replying to Catdaddy, I think Ghostbuster, who warned me about being civil, should read Catdaddy's post that actually appears above his warning to ME and make that reply in my behalf. Maybe there is still a double standard for posters here. I guess we'll see.
If so, goodbye Todd. I tried.
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Lon |
Edited by - Lon Sterling on 10/19/2003 20:37:54 |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 21:02:57
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It's hard to believe this thread has gone so far... below is my original post. If no one has any more comments to make regarding it, I respectuflly request you take your discussions elsewhere as they do not pertain to the topic as stated.
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Let's talk about hail damage... I have been pondering recently whether or not it is actually true that the hail damage will be visible in 6 months if it is not visible during my current inspection.
I have seen these idea passed around recently and want to have further discussion and input.
Now, as a young adjuster, I went out on a re-i request 3-4 months after my initial denial of hail damage and did find hail damage to warrant repairs to the roof. Was this because I was not thorough enough at the initial inspection? Or was it simply that the damage could not be found?
I have even used this idea as a way to pacify homeowners if they weren't happy with my denial, actually believing what I was telling them (because of the above scenario).
I was particularly disturbed the other day when a roofer met me at a loss and after we scoured the roof the best we could, we found NO hail damage except to some box vents. He had called the claim in for the homeowner claiming hail damage to the roof. After I told him I wasn't buying it, he flippantly said, "wait 6 months, the next adjuster will." That upset me for so many reasons which I know you felt in a visceral way as you read his comment to me.
I guess what I really want to know is, if I look hard enough the first time, can I find that same damage that will possibly show up 6 months later? If I can, how much harder are we talking? An extra 5 minutes per test square? And extra 30 minutes?
I would really appreciate any comments or suggestions or thoughts anyone has on this, from any side of the proverbial fence.
Just do me one favor... let's not get all partisian or flaming here. I like my topics to stay friendly. :-)
Jennifer |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 21:09:20
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Now see Lon, all that blab and we still don't know what you do besides write long posts and put down poor Kyle. Ok. Look down and to the left. Is your name on your shirt? If it is, look to the right. Who you work for should be on that side. What does it say? If we can get the name, we can call them tomorrow and ask them what you do since you don't seem to be able to explain it to us.
For the record, some of your points are interesting but you do deliver them in a very condescending tone. You go on and on, spitting out all these unsubstantiated ideas that could be coming off gum wrappers, all the while telling us we are all stupid. If you are the way you seem, I'm sorry. Get help and hit the road. If you are not, tone it down and stay a while.
CD |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 21:31:24
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Lon, obviously you are incapable of understanding logic. I've already explained to you that you are comparing apples and oranges.
Please, someone, tell me if I am being less than clear. Does anyone else understand what I am saying because poor Lon here has no clue and seems to be completely incapable of understanding plain english.
I would be willing to bet that Lon wanted to be a lawyer (he seems to have the adequate slimeyness for the profession) but has been frustrated in his efforts somehow.
Lon, you are not going to change reality. Hail does impact different slopes of a roof at different angles and it can damage one side of a roof without damaging the other. I've seen it. You can't tell me that it doesn't because I have seen it with my own eyes. I've seen a tornado tear the roof off of one house and leave a small shed in the back yard completely untouched. That is why when a good adjuster examines a roof he looks at every slope.
Are you naturally this hard headed or do you do some sort of excercises to achieve it? |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 00:03:29
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It's late and I'm about to head off to bed, but something just occurred to me. Lon seems to think that everyone else is stupid. Engineers don't know what they are talking about, adjusters don't know what they are doing, he thinks I'm dumb, he knows that his IQ is tremendously superior to everyone else's and he just loves to tell all of us this. I think I have figured out the problem. Lon has a serious inferiority complex and he feels the need to let all of us know how remarkably superior he is to all of us. If he is so damn smart and knows the answers to everything, why is he wasting his time preaching to us stupid adjusters? Surely his time could be much better spent putting his immense knowledge and superior intellect to use on money making endeavors.
I hope that everyone will join me in asking Lon to please, spare himself the mental anguish of having to deal with all of us bone heads and kindly leave the clubhouse and spread his gospel to the world and spare us the time of having to read his obviously infallible logic. It's a big world out there, Lon, enjoy it. You'll be missed. (sarcasm intended). |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 10/20/2003 00:07:15 |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 06:33:52
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I'm just a poor ol' roofer, taking my lmo to McDonalds. Where I will study my daytimer to see which roofs need to be called for 90 day re-inspect.
I still think we are on track, with the original post. Its all about time and damage. With a few diversions along the way. I am just glad some of the heat, has been taken off me.
Our little outfit does not estimate waste into demolition, only to application.
I also think I am the best writer.
BLT |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 07:26:49
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| Brooks, I think you write well also. And you will be just that much better at it when you get to the 5th grade! |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 08:40:22
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| Brooks, be careful, if you cozy up to us too much Lon will accuse you of crossing over to the dark side. I'm beginning to think more and more that you may be one of the good roofers. |
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 09:17:40
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Kile:
I'm not cozying up, just glad someone else is tkaing some heat.
Cat, I don't know why my profile says I'm 13. I was already in the 6th grade by then though.
BLT |
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Hail Damage Visibility
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