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dentservice
4 Posts |
 Posted - 08/16/2003 : 20:20:34
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| Hello to the board. I am a PDR technician from Houston, 8 years experience but this is my first year chasing hail. I have a question I thought might be best asked on this board, if that is okay. In the past, when I have done hail repair locally for individuals, I have not dealt with insurance companies. It has always been my practice not to ask my customer how much their insurance company wrote their check for. I didn't think it was any of my business and should not affect my estimate. Do you guys have an opinion on the proper way of handling this situation? I know a lot of times that the customer is keeping thousands of dollars if the insurance company wrote the estimate by body shop guidelines. I've seen more and more insurance companies writing PDR in the last few years and I wondered if I need to be communicating directly with them. Thank you all. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2003 : 23:28:41
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| I think you attitude is correct, it is none of your business. Write the estimate for what you think it should be and if they say OK, then you have a job, if they say their insurance didn't pay them that much, ask them if you can see the estimate because maybe the insurance company's estimator forgot something. They you can point out what the insurance guy missed and you become that customer's hero and you'll probably get the job. If an insurance company has a policy of writing an estimate for conventional repairs and the insured decides to use PDR, then that is up to them, you are not entitled to the difference. If llater down the line there is another claim and the ins. co. paid to paint the hood or replace it on the hail claim and that work is never done they might not be able to collect again. That's between the ins. co. and the insured, and as you said, none of your business. |
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dentservice
4 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2003 : 00:57:30
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| Thanks very much. Your post answered questions I hadn't even thought to ask. There's just too many grey areas in this business, too many that go along unquestioned for a long time. They are working to begin certification for PDR soon, many techs are angered by this but I think it is long overdue. Anything that helps to stop a hack technician from taking my work away just because he will do it cheaper, and meanwhile he gives the industry a bad name. So hopefully you guys will start hearing about this certification business in the near future and it might help take some of the guesswork out of finding a good tech. Thanks again. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2003 : 06:37:06
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| By the way, do you guys have a professional trade association that is setting up this certification program? |
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dentservice
4 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2003 : 10:37:39
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| The certification is being set up by a group that does various other certifications in the automotive industry. They say they can't tell us who they are until everything is lined up, for some reason. But they seem to be legit, insurance companies are in favor. There was a thread about it at www.dentnetwork.com, probably in the public forum if you are curious. Like I say, I'm in favor of anything that works to make what I do for a living into a more professional and respected trade. I realize that PDR has a bad reputation in some circles, and that is always due to a few bad apples. Some of us work very hard to do this work the way it should really be done, but some times the guy who will do it the cheapest gets the work. |
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W
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 09:34:19
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Hello Dent service
Working just off of your sheet, for the owner of the vehicle sounds good, but with almost 20 years in as a auto adjuster. I have seen dozens of people like you & insured's that have been burned from someone trying to make a buck off of their claim. The first question you should ask is may I see you estimate from your insurance company. When I write a estimate, make three copy's. One for me. One for the insured to keep. One for the repairer. I tell them to give the third copy to the repairer and have them call me if there are any questions. If it has hail damage, and is coming to you, they have insurance 99% of the time. Trust me. Also, we reinspect repairs and survey the policy owners. Any problems will most likely come out. If the vehicle get in a collision in the future and is estimated, if any hail damage is found then that was not repair ( even if the owner said not to ) on a panel that now needs replaced, the estimate will be reduced by the prior paid hail damage . Now the finger pointing starts. Or if the shop points out the vehicle was drilled to repair the hail damage. And you don't have a sign agreement from the owner approving the drilling of the panel. With today's Diminished Value law suits the insurance company will be looking for you to repair the damage done. It is not just a deal between you and the owner. The car has a history and a path to follow. Other have been, and will be involved. It is best to keep all parties involved from start to finish. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 20:32:36
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| W, I disagree. The repairer should write an estimate for the necessary repairs, it shouldn't matter if the insurance company is involved or not and frankly it is none of the repairers business how much the insurance company paid to their insured. The insurance company does not hire the repairer and has no relationship with them whatsoever. A repairer should not treat a customer any differently if they have insurance or not. |
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scottposton
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 00:17:49
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| Kile, Hammer meets Nail there....The insurance co has no contractual obligation with the repair shop. In fact even if they utilize A/M parts when you paid them for OEM all you can do is audit the claim and request a refund from the insured/claimant. The only place thus far that I know of where this works differently is in Calif. As I understand it Body Shops in Calif have to be licensed so potentially they could have their license revoked therefore putting them out of business for fraud. In most other states however you have to go after the insured/claimant in order to get to the body shop. The problem is that yes this is fraud but since we don't have any contractual obligation between us and the shop we can't go after them when this happens. And most choose not to go after it because you have to go thru the insured to get to them and is recouping the difference between an AM fender instead of the OEM you paid for worth it? I do audits on 20% of my claims and always find stuff that was paid for that wasn't done or unallowed yet substituted parts. The only time I can get any results is when a supplement request comes in and then I take it back out of the supplement request. |
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guest_98
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 09:12:47
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I can only imagine me buying anything, and the proprietor says sure love to help ya, how much money you got?
If you charge extra because someone has a larger check, in my mind,that would make you guilty of gouging.
??? 96 Camry, 144000 mile <-- Very High mileage. No liens good condition 1900.00 hail damage (but barely visible) as the owner, do you repair it or pocket the money?
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scottposton
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 11:46:29
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| Guest...Yeah I kind of agree there. The repair facility should give them an estimate based on what they see the repairs costing and then the insured can make a decision. Never would I as a consumer ask them if they can do it for the amount of my check. Besides why should PDR ever cost more than traditional repair? However I think the point is probably moot by now anyway. Almost every insurer that I write for now utilized PDR so they are no longer getting huge checks for traditional repairs and then using PDR to pocket some excess. |
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dentservice
4 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 01:31:43
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| to update this old thread, PDR certification began this past January. Vale National developed the testing program, www.valenational.com. I imagine some of you here are familiar with Vale. The test is skill based, so far about 70 of us have certified. I certified as a Master Craftsman. There is also a Journeyman and Craftsman level. Vale also teaches the Dent Estimators software program, I certified in that as well and there was a class full of claims adjusters taking that course also. www.dentestimators.com We are excited in the PDR industry about our developments, it is the first step for us towards being regarded as professionals and seperating us from the "hacker companies" that pop up under the tents and do shoddy work. Nationwide and a few other insurance companies have already contacted Vale for a list of names of those of us who have been certified. We are hoping to build strong relationships with the insurance industry. I will be happy to answer any questions you have if I am able. Thanks folks. |
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Cecil
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 06:55:14
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I agree with Kile. However, let's say the estimate by the the adjuster was $1,500.00 and the insured was paid $1,000.00. The insured then shops around and gets the typical repair for $1,100.00. The fact he saved some money at that point does not affect future claims because he made all the repairs.
Similarly, let's say he decides to make the PDR repair and it costs $900.00 and the reapirs are "acceptable" by industry standards. Would that affect future claims any differently than the example above?
I understand the part about visible dents he was paid for and decided not to repair, but even there aren't we on thin ice if the car is later totalled out. The left over dents and general condition would affect the ACV but would we subtract the exact "quote" amount he was earlier allowed or we would we look at the overall condition here and how that affected the ACV? |
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PDR
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