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leoncrow
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2004 : 10:17:29
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sunny and 40 degrees today,trader hows the mold going in texas.
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Brooks Todd
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 13:14:01
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| of course excessive granular loss is roof damage. The tire example is ridiculous. A staff adjuster from an un-named carrier, told a homeowner that story and we both had to laugh. Still didnt get the guy a roof though. His is really damaged |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 13:56:11
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| Wish some sleet would come thru Houston, marble size hail would be better. This would stir up all the 10 year and over composition roof owners .And me some work for two months. Mold Gold, Gone Gone Its going to be bacteria from grey water this year. But the HO-A form killed this off also. Theft claims still need eye balls(sometime). |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 17:30:37
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| Please explain to me how the tire example is ridiculous. I think it is completely analogous. A tire is a wearable surface, a roof is a wearable surface. Please enlighten me. |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 02/04/2004 17:31:24 |
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khromas
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 18:04:39
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| Talked to my State Farm agent the other day and found out that they are requiring 2% deductibles on Windstorm/Hurricane/Hail peril on all renewals they write. Think that will have a significant impact on hail claims getting filed in the last month of the old policy term? {Personally, I need a good hail storm ( a legitimate one! ) here on the near west side of Houston before May 1 so I can get rid of my comp over wood! I say 'legitimate one' because I keep getting the "roofer" letters claiming they got covered roofs for my neighbors for hail damage. While I was staff at Big Blue, I denied many here in the neighborhood 'cause I knew we had NOT had hail big enough to damage. They actually changed their assignment policies so that you would not have to get claims in your own area for your neighbors.} |
Kevin Hromas |
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trader
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 18:26:46
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| -What form HO-3 or HOA-M (Texas) O boy glad I am not a contingency roofer, well that would beat sitting at home, give it a shot Kevin, you have heard the spill many times. |
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rorunner_77
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 22:25:00
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| Would not granules piled in gutters 2 or more inches thick prove that the loss was due to an event such as hail or would there have to be let's say denting of turbines etc. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 22:33:03
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| Wow rorunner, dig back into this thread a few pages. Your question was - how do I say this - dealt with extensively and with passion and in great detail, in the previous pages of this thread. |
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rorunner_77
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 22:36:04
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| You all have been incredible in covering this topic. Sorry about my last post I missed Jim's post earlier |
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 17:46:15
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First off, I'm a HO not an adjuster. I'm doing my research so I can have a better understanding of the process and my recourse with the insurer. Secondly, we received a hailstorm on 2/27/04, two days ago, in Bayou Gauche, Louisiana. We were hit with 2" to 3" (minimum of golfball size, maximum of baseball size) hail for approximately 4 minutes. I have a 9 yo, single tab, composite shingle roof with a fairly steep pitch. The hail came straight down. Now, the hit marks are easily visible to the naked eye at any angle. It is a medium color brown roof and the hit marks are lighter in color and visibly indented. The inspector came out and said there is no damage to the roof. The hit marks are just the algae that was knocked off changing the color of the roof. He did not pry up any shingles to see if there was dimpling under the shingle. There was not an inordinate amount of granule loss, that is all he wanted to talk about. He said that hail damage was determined by the granule loss. My question therefore is, how can you tell what "bruising" is without lifting the shingle and after reading this entire thread, how does no granule loss affect his decision? Is it possible that 3" hail cannot cause hail damage to a 9 yo roof? Can I get a copy of the Haag Eng. book that defines hail damage besides what I've found on the web? Now I know better than to ask a roofer's opinion. Conflict of interest no doubt. Thanks.
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Edited by - Tuckernotis on 02/27/2004 17:54:27 |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 22:23:04
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Karen Gray
Call back for a re-inspection if there is visible damage to your roof. Did the adjuster actually climb up on the roof and inspect? Did he do a "test square" with (sidewalk) chalk on a 10' by 10' section of roof? Do you have visible algie covering the entire roof where hail would knock it off at each impact point? Do you have any other damage to your dwelling, ie: doors, screens, windows, soft metal trim or siding, plastic dryer vents, aluminum gutters etc.? Walk completely around your home and look for any other damage. Do you have any weather reports on the hail? AND hail damage IS NOT only determined by granule loss which could be minimal in a large stone brief duration event.
Please supply this information and maybe we can help. |
John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
Edited by - Johnd on 02/27/2004 22:27:26 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 23:13:49
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Karen, you posted on 2/27/04 and said the hail storm was 2/27/04 and that it was 2 days ago. I can only assume that you meant it occured 2/25/04.
I am an adjuster from Baton Rouge. I am not in the state at the moment, I am working a hail storm in another state. I had not heard of hail damage so close to home.
I noticed you said that the impact marks are lighter in color than the rest of the roof. Usually hail damage is darker in color because it has displaced granules and exposed the asphault underneath. If it is lighter in color it could be just as the adjuster said that mildew has been knocked off the roof and the shingles are not damaged. Being that we have nearly 100% humidity all the time mold and mildew are quite common on roofs in south Louisiana. I have not seen your roof so I cannot make a determination and it may very well be that the adjuster was wrong. I can't tell without actually seeing it.
Is it possible for you or someone you know to get up on the roof or at least to the top of the ladder and feel the impact marks? Don't try this if you can't do it safely, but if you can feel a depresion in the impact mark or if it is softer than the rest of the shingle you probably have hail damage. If the hail was as big as you said it should be fairly easy to find damage to your roof. Were your cars or your neighbors cars damaged? Did you pick up the hail? Some hail is hard as concrete and other hail is soft and almost slushy. Large soft hail could impact a roof and not do any damage other than cleaning off the spot that it hit. Have any of your neighbors had any damage to their roofs? All of these questions as well as John's above would greatly help us help you on this issue.
Just curious, who is your insurance carrier? |
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goose
57 Posts |
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gloverb
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 09:04:24
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Is granule loss on a roof covered? Only if cosmetic damage is covered. Just attended a Haag seminar directed specifically to roof damage. He spent a large amount of time dealing with granule loss. Conclussion was that the loss of granules is cosmetic does not affect the integrity of the roof. He showed a lot of the engineering behind this conclusion.
The primary purpose of granules is cosmetic, not structural. You could lose 100% of the granules on the roof & still not affect the water repellent purpose of the shingle if it is not otherwise damaged.
The amount of granules represents about 1/3 of the weight of a shingle on a 3-tab roof, less on heavier shingles. This is about 2000lbs of granules on a typical 25sq roof. So, if all of the gutters are filled with granules does this represent a significant granule loss?
Shingles lose granules in every rain storm. Is the roof damaged? Of course not! If an adjuster is determining hail damage by the amount of granules in the gutters he better be looking for a new profession. Damaged shingles are bruised, broken, cracked, chipped, etc.
The loss of granules is normal wear & tear on the roof.
The Haag guy gave some examples trying to illustrate the problems with determining granule loss & how it affects a roof. He said that you can measure the shingles from a new bundle, & there will be a 5-10% difference in the amount of granules in the same bundle.
He stated that they pull shingles to measure for "excessive" granule loss. On the same roof they also pull the starter shingles & measure these. As you know the starter shingles are put down along the edges of the roof & are totally covered by shingles;so, the starter shingles are never affected by the weather. These starter shingles show almost the same amount of granule loss as the so called damaged shingles.
On a test roof Haag installed shingles upside down, granule side on bottom, asphalt side on top. Other than discoloration by the sun the roof is in perfect condition. Roof was put on 11yrs ago.
Kyle, your example of wear & tear on tires is perfect. I think Brooks must be a roofer. |
Edited by - gloverb on 02/28/2004 09:36:04 |
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Tuckernotis
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 11:00:04
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Thanks for the quick replies. In answer to most of the questions. Yes. We've been on the roof, the inspector was on the roof. I've tried to upload a photo of the roof and the hail but keep getting errors. Thee is definitely a depression in the shingle on most of the hits. Everyone's cars were trashed as well. Neighbor even got a nasty cut on his head trying to save his truck. The NOAA website earlier shows the path of the storm. We are the Des Allemands community. I sent photos to NOAA/NWS for confirmation. Even took photos of the hail w/ ruler to show size. Minimum size was 2", most 3". The hit marks are lighter in some places and darker in others and I do understand that all roofs in La. have mildew. But the patio cover roof is a total loss because of the hail as well as the vents being beat up. Gutters are fine as the hail came straight down, AC unit was protected.
I've also been told that it is pretty much SOP for the inspector to try to say no damage on the first pass. He has a conflict of interest too since he works for the insurer. It's like the dance at the car dealership. Of course if it is officially denied by the adjuster we will ask for a reinspection.
Thanks again |
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Is granule loss considered hail damage?
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