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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2003 : 11:07:29
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Here you go, bring it on! I'm shocked with myself, for starting this thread, but it is in the right forum with my belief that it doesn't belong in the business of insurance or claims. Consciously, I'm sure I'll reflect within myself more, as to the reasons I established the thread; but on the surface, it is intended to try and capture and absorb the expressions of religion that recently have entered various threads with greater frequency, and to try and better understand why.
When I consider Mr. Portillo's latest response in the "Breaking Barriers" thread, I can understand and agree with the concept of 'faith'. I have faith in myself, and some other living people, that I trust. I am faithful - loyal and trustworthy - to my family, friends, clients and customers.
I do not seek motivation - that 'reason', factor or incentive for doing whatever I do - from any of the four selections JohnJay provided. Motivation to me, comes from the interest in pursuing something, seeking opportunities, and tackling challenges - all whether in personal or corporate life. As Kile has said, and with which I agree, it is through one's own actions and hard work that good things are accomplished; that in itself is a good motivator.
When I think back to Justin's comment / question to be regarding being an athiest, in hindsight I don't understand the relevance of the question; and although I answered the question truthfully, I fail to see the significance of it. When I got to this point of my post, I looked up the word, to make sure I understood what it meant. Considering that, maybe there are religions where there is no 'God'. Perhaps people that worship a greater being, or seek guidance from a 'spirit' with no label, are not athiests; I don't know. I judge people by my own criteria, and none of that consideration has anything to do with religion, race, sexual orientation, color or creed - absolutely nothing to do with any of those things. I judge a person by their words and actions, and all the things that are linked to that.
I'm probably not explaining my thoughts on this 'religion' stuff, that is entering various other threads whose topics don't appear to warrant religious commentary. But, for example, I find it uncomfortable (I'm just not sure what the right word is) that JohnJay (while clearly meaning well) is wishing that God bless me (as per the ".... everyone ...."); I just don't want or feel comfortable with that coming to me from a 'stranger'. When I need to draw comfort from that 'expression', I do seek it from a 'man of the cloth', who I feel is the medium through which to seek those things, in addition to personal prayer.
When Don comes back in that same thread, regarding his comment relative to the importance of it to an insured; I just don't see that. If or when it is important to an insured, their faith and knowledge of their religion is usually strong enough and clear enough, that they recognize that the solace they seek is best sought from within their own church; and not from a stranger in the form of an adjuster.
"Bible-thumpers" is a stereotypical expression, found in our society. Again, I don't really know what it means, but I characterize it when I see someone flaunting religion or religious beliefs; while apparently at the same time making statements that are at odds with what the 'good book' proclaims. I sense they take a defensive posture behind the 'good book' to justify their statements that are exceptions to it.
I see religion as a private and personal thing, hence one of the surprises to myself, for creating this thread. With the freedom we enjoy within our societies, some people wish to flaunt their religion and their religious beliefs in public; for various reasons, some of them self serving. Others 'practice' their religion and strongly worship their faith privately; in the confines of their own home, perhaps only with their family. Others, perhaps the majority, take solace from their religion, in the comfort of their own church and among their fellow parishoners.
I think religion should not be preached in the open, to others in the business world.
However, I am fascinated by the religions of the world, even though I don't know much past the basics of any religion.
But, I think 'religion' means many different things to many people. It may to some, be what they believe about God. To others, it is a measure of how they worship. To others, it is a particular combination of their system of beliefs and worship.
Religion has carved the fiber of our cultures and societies, since mankind evolved on earth.
I'll follow quite intently, any commentary that follows; in an effort to better understand the opposing viewpoints. |
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floodadjuster966
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 15:37:16
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| The Big Deal: Hell |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 16:15:54
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| Would you accept a stranger's help if you were broken down on the side of the road on a bitter cold Canadian night???? No strings attached?????You bet you would.....Then why not accept someone wishing you well:the strenght to continue in difficult times: the feeling of joy at all the good things that happen to you each day;and the list goes on and on-----because when someone says Godbless you ,they are wishing all those things on you.......and that you find eternal salvation......even if you do not believe in any God,supreme being,spirit,life after , etc......it does not matter--you are being wished well--with no strings attached from the well wisher.....so live with it and embrass the fact that someone thought enough of you as a fellow human being to wish you well.......GOT IT????-Take care and Godbless......Joseph M. Lombardo Jr. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 16:56:15
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| Joseph it seems that each one feels his or her views of life and life after death is the correct position. This does make it hard to find a lot of understanding on the subject but thinks for opening the subject. Based on man's history this seems to be a subject that has always been on his mind because most have a view of creation in their culture and life after death. |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 17:05:54
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Clayton, if GOD does not belong in the insurance business then would you answer a simple question of just what does "force majeur" mean in my insurance policy? Thanks, and God Bless you.
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 20:04:25
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Clayton, Thanks for being real and transparent. I will respond to my portion of your post. I have had opoportunities to pray with people who have had tragedy in their life. It was only afetr it was obvious to me that they were a person of like faith. They seeming lost, confused and in need of the peace that they believed in. I was glad I could be there to simply ask the question and be an encouragement.
Having nine kids many times opens the door. Why? Because I get asked if I'm Catholic or Mormon. Thuis usually leads to discussing many things including their faith. I for believe adjusting includes building relationships. So I enter in to many topics with people as I read them and they learn to trust me.
Haven't 'thumped' anybody yet. Thought of laying hands on some around the neck :-) (sorry only once I promise).
Never want to offensive, sometimes the message is.
Once again I appreciate your thread and agree with much of what you say. I personally am not offended by anyone who has a differing thought or opinion. I do expect the same in return and believe I have received that from you.
Peace,
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Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 22:38:19
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Well, a good number of things to think and reflect on; with the responses so far.
First, 'floodadjuster', I understand, I think, the concept of 'heaven and hell', I think it is preached to most Christians from Sunday School on. I may not understand your one liner, but I don't see the 'big deal' as 'hell'; if a person is less than devout with their religion.
Joe, I would openly receive, and I do stop to do the same, as in the example you gave and the one Tom Toll provided in another thread; all without any 'strings attached'. For the rest of your note, although you do make it abundantly clear, the very very rare few times any stanger has said "God bless" to me; I honestly did not take it to mean the 3 or 4 things that you indicated it was. If it is used as a form of salutation or greeting, then I misunderstood its meaning. One of your statements, ".... so live with it and embrace the fact that someone thought enough of you as a fellow human being to wish you well ....", is a good example of what I am trying to convey. When someone says this, that I have never met, nor spoke to previously, nor communicated in any way with before (an example would be Mr. Portillo's post); it is impossible for me to believe he thinks enough about me to wish me well (and I mean no disrespect in that). To me, those words ("God bless") I feel are more 'solemn' and in fact religious; and hence when presented as in the above situation, I think makes the 'expression' pretty generic and it has lost its value that I think it has when it comes to me from a 'man of the cloth'.
Don, you have clarified how and to what extent religion may enter into your activities while doing a claim. I understand and respect that, and I can tell from your comments that you are comfortable with doing that and of the boundaries for such discussions. It is not just something I would allow myself to enter into. I am not or wouldn't feel 'qualified' to do it.
Now Justin, you old fox, your question is simple; but I sense the twist with which you bring "force majeure" to the discussion. I suppose with your penchant for French, you use that term instead of "vis major"; both of which translate to "superior force".
I haven't heard or seen of that term actually being used in the wording of any policies usual to our work; in our adjusting lifetime. I doubt that expression is actually in your policy, but I know what you are getting at; however if you have a policy with those words as part of the wording, I would appreciate the name of the policy and its form number.
There are 3 broad categories of perils in insurance policies - natural, human and economic. "Force majeure" - an event or accident beyond any person's control - is used generally to group the natural perils. It is often understood as natural disasters, forces or events of nature than can cause loss; but also includes with some applications of use - mass acts of human agency, such as war or civil strife.
Your inference to it as meaning 'acts of God', is noted. However, that term when used by people is in reference to natural disasters such as hurricanes, tornados, etc.
These 'natural disasters', are not in reality an act of any God; they are meterological events, all with a sound understanding in physical sciences.
The "force majeure" term is commonly found in some types of construction contracts to relate to conditions of nonperformance, and in some export trade indemnification type agreements in areas of noncompliance with contract conditions; both situations relating to the effects of natural perils beyond the control of the parties to the contracts.
So Justin, I hope I have explained what "force majeure" means in relation to the natural category of perils in your policy. |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2003 : 23:03:25
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While the rest of you acolytes are fussing over dust specks, I, (in my inspired devine wisdom), have solved the riddle of where we, as adjusters, stand in the Great Scheme of Things.
Ya see, it's like this, we'uns in our roles as storm troopers are on Gods Cleanup Squad. We are like the guys following behind the elephants in a parade with the shovels and scoops. It is our chosen task to go in after the Deity has had it's big fit and smited the heathens on their roofs, siding, and fashionable patio furniture to restore the faith and pay to staighten up the mess as best we can.
We're not angels...yet. We live on and by faith while still getting to partake in some earthly vices, pending promotion to the next level. But, make no mistke about it, our job puts us on the rocky road to a higher plain. When the Calling comes, we come running. |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 06:42:57
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| Clayton, You can present any number of "explanations" that you will, but to a true believe in ANY faith wishws you blessings, then I think you need to smile and accept them.......How do you know if the wisher is a true believer......especially if you have no personal knowledge of that person......I don't have a clue......I guess it is just a matter of faith......Here, try this one........Take care and be safe.........I don't know you, but that does not mean I wish any harm to come to you.....I do not particularly care for your prosaic style.....but I do not wish harm to you........so if I can say "take care and be safe", then why can't I say a much broader statement ......Godbless.....Joe L. |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 06:56:48
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Clayton,
Most religions or spiritual beliefs are not beliefs that foster the hurting of other people ....most beliefs tend to reinforce the doing of good deeds or at least the the absence of doing ill to other people.......So maybe if people practiced these beliefs more and LIVED these beliefs openly, this World would be a whole lot better place to live....What do you think...... |
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clydev
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 08:07:33
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| Any historian will tell you Jesus really lived and can show you exactly where he was buried...where did he go? I for one believe.....if I am wrong...when I die, I will be lying there all dress up with no place to go....where will you be if its all true? |
Clyde Veltmann
Hill Country Claims Managment, LLC
www.hillcountryclaims.com |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 10:34:06
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Joe, I guess the 'matter of faith' is the factor, when I look at your note. 'Faith' comes in many levels and styles, but I can relate much better to a "take care and be safe", than to a "God bless"; when received or given from those or to those, I know or don't know. My rational for that is that the "take care" seems more personal to me; whereas I know I don't have the 'qualifications' or right to "God bless" anyone, and hence I look at receiving that with the same measure. I certainly agree with your 2nd post this morning. I have always tried to keep in mind and practice, "do unto others as you would want to be treated by them". It would be a whole lot better place to live, if people committed to trying a bit harder to consisently applying that personal conviction. By the way, I had to look up 'prosaic', I don't apologize for it; but I had never heard that come my way before and am left with some confusion about it.
Clyde, I don't think any or every historian would detail history, as you have indicated. However that raises the interesting concept of 'accepting' certain things in life, versus firmly believing them, whether those 'things' are religious or otherwise; and each person's measure of whatever is personally required to adopt an 'acceptance' or 'belief' in that thing. Accepting your statement, I have no idea where I'll 'end up'. Most times, I don't feel that is a relevant consideration. I'm an ardent subscriber to the 'theory' of living for the day, this day, each day. The older I get, the more frequently I sadly note that poeple I know, at some point 'don't have any more tomorrows'. The odd time I think about where I'll 'end up', I consider those as selfish thoughts. It would be great to 'end up' in a place with all those you cared about, and there they are waiting for me, as they were on their last healthy day from some 'yesterday'. If that is not to be, and I don't sense I have any control in that, then I don't really care where I 'end up'. |
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jlombardo
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 11:59:28
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| Clayton......You need to stop picking...when someone says "Godbless" they mean "may Godbless you"...even you are qualified to say that ......to another human being....Got it????? I truly hope so......Take Care and Godbless.......Bye........Aloha......See ya'.....Hasta la vista...Vada con Dios.......Pick one Clayton and don't make a big deal about it......Joe L. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 12:59:49
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| It's "vaya con Dios". Which means "go with God". |
Edited by - KileAnderson on 03/02/2003 13:03:45 |
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stormchaser1
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 13:11:14
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| WITHOUT GOD, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB AS AN ADJUSTER |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2003 : 14:59:09
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'Stormchaser', I don't know why you use 'capitals' for your posts, however God had nothing to do with, nor has God anything to do with me being an adjuster; whether you mean as a consequence of weather events, or how I became and stayed as an adjuster for over 30 years.
I don't believe your statement, nor can I accept it; nor could you convince me of it. But, I would be interested in your reasoning for such a statement. |
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Religion - What's the big deal?
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