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Admin
547 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2002 : 00:09:29
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| I inspected a 3-tab comp roof and found minor wind damage. Do I measure the roof? |
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Jimbo
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 08:48:59
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| I have had supervisors say that there was no need to measure the roof in case of a minimum charge. But, personally I always measured and diagramed the entire roof. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 09:37:06
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| I fully agree Jimbo. One thing it accomplishes is that it minimizes carrier irritation when later if that minimum damage is argued or challenged, the diagram and measurements are there. This limits the issue to only severity and quantum; eliminating the head scratching at that the 'hindsight desk', that wonders just how much roof there is. |
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Eightball
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 10:22:53
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| I diagram the roof only on a minimum charge, if the carrier specifically requests measurements I will provide same but none have ever suggested they require them on a minimum charge repair. |
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katadj
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 18:40:09
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It is to your benefit to ALWAYS document the UN damaged as well as the damaged portions of a loss, especially a roof loss.
With the potential for a leak which may or may not result in a consequencial and ensuing loss. CYA, you never know when, where, of if the proverbial alligator is going to take a nip at your posterior.
Even if directed NOT to do so, it is in your best interest, and if you choose to do as directed, be Damn sure the name of the person that directed your actions is on the report. |
Edited by - katadj on 12/22/2002 18:41:42 |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 18:56:28
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Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here and take what I'm sure is the more controversial position that for a minimum charge fee schedule, the adjuster is not being adequately compensated for his time and effort to diagram and measure the roof.
I know that most adjusters have encountered the multi-level half million dollar plus homes with dozens of cuts and extentions and likely with some rather steep and dangerous slopes.
No adjuster should or should have to take life threatening risks on these dangerous steep slopes for a minimum charge claims payment.
To adequately measure and diagram such a roof could easily take a couple of hours or more of roof inspection time.
When the adjuster is netting $50 to $100 for their total claim payment for: inspection time, plus insured contacts, travel to and from the loss, as well as preparation of the estimate and closing report, the adjuster is not being treated fairly by the carrier or vendor to say the least.
I'm sure the vendors and carriers are not going to like this answer, but think about one more thing: if the carrier later decides to buy or pay for the total roof, they also save a huge fee service bill by using your work for which you were not paid.
If the carriers want professional adjusters then they should compensate adjusters with rates for professionals.
And vendors should negotiate fee schedules which compensate adjusters fairly and as professionals, not as mere roof thumpers.
Otherwise, let 'em hire the 'roof thumpers' who are willing to work for peanuts!
You get what you pay for.
Or the nicer the nice the higher the price. |
Edited by - JimF on 12/29/2002 20:28:55 |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 19:00:46
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If there is only minor damage, I will diagram the entire roof and measure the affected slope. If I am called out to redo a claim that a min charge was paid on and the original adjuster diagrammed and measured, I may or may not reuse that adjuster's work. It really depends on the quality of the diagram. And for the measurements, I will almost always redo them myself since my name is going to be on the check.
Jennifer |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 21:56:48
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| For the most part, I will diagram and measure the entire roof If I am doing any kind of roof repair at all. If the roof is extremely high, or steep or for some other reason it is not practical to measure the traditional way I will diagram and estimate measurements on non affected slopes (tab counting) and not that measurements are estimated because of the impracticallity or danger in measuring the un-affected slopes.. I think most experienced adjusters will be able to tell when it is absolutely necessary to do full measurements. Also, most adjusters will know what a reasonable cat manager will want in a file and if they want it all, you have no choice, give it all. |
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Kelley
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 17:51:52
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| There are times when the carrier declairs if you get on the roof all slopes must be measured. AmFam is big on this, damage or not. As with so many things in this business it is not easy to give a hard, fast rule, each carriers thoughts on the subject can change any rule. There may be basic guidelines out there but that is just what they are, guidelines! |
One persons dream is another persons nightmare. |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 18:39:17
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Removed
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Edited by - Justin on 12/30/2002 00:20:09 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 19:46:57
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| Justin, I'm confused, it there was no claim, why were they paying for the roof's? Was there damage that you didn't see? If that is the case then you shouldn't get paid for the roof because you didn't find the damage. Please elaborate. I'm very interested. |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2002 : 19:52:41
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| I must admit I have been staring at Justin's note, hoping I am confused; and not in shock as to what an adjuster may be suggesting here. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2002 : 00:05:22
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If the boss ask you to go a mile, go two. Integrity is not always a two way street, make sure you are not going the wrong way.
The vendors pay is directly proportional to yours, if he is told to do something he had better get the dog and pony show on the road, or he doesn't get called the next time. If I got paid for the extra miles I've gone I could buy Ghostbuster all the catfish he could eat.
Kile and Jennifer both gave good examples, not being offended by the job, was what they conveyed to me. The methods they use are the same, what the white shirts want.
When the time comes , I will probably go the same route as they and try to get every roof measured to the best of my ability, if the claim calls for it. You loose on some and then you gain, plus
I would think you would work more. |
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Cecelia
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2002 : 08:14:47
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Many companies do not require the entire roof to be measured and diagramed if there is only minimum damage. Taking photographs that properly document the minimum damage and all slopes that are NOT damaged is necessary. It should be easy to see that there is no additional damage to the roof should the insured call in and want the entire roof (or part of it) replaced. A second field inspection would be necessary, whether or not the roof is diagramed and measured, to verify that there is no actual missed damage (or that there is).
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inside man
45 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:03:04
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I would be happy if the independents that are being used here would get on the roof.
I actually looked at a file yesterday that the independent has allowed $450.00 minimum roof repair and all his photos are from the ground and no damage can be seen in the photos. Oh, yeah...by the way Mr. Adjuster, there is a one story porch by the front door that would have allowed you to walk up to the 2 story section of the roof. I saw that in the corner of one of your photos, which by the way did not include a risk shot of the front of the house. Maybe you only gave me a full shot of the back of the house because it showed a full 2 stories with no 1 story access?
This seems to be common practice by the local daily claim independent adjusters. Do these guys know about compact ladders?
P.S. I saw a Little Giant knock off in Home Depot the other day for $100.00
Hmmm....maybe they can't figure out how to unfold it??? |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 12:42:55
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Note to "Inside Man". I don't know where "here" is so cannot comment on the area but you seem to be painting all independent adjusters with the same broad brush and dipped deep into the bucket.
From first hand experience, there are also staff adjusters who also are LAZY! A distant claim comes to mind when there were 29 condo buildings, each over 100 sq., each with slopes A thru Q, however, not all the same dimensions. The staff adjuster had the ice dam claim and was working it at the same time I was working the wind claim. I climbed and measured each and every one of those buildings. That was what I was being paid to do. I consulted with the staff adjuster regarding his scope of damage to the roofing caused by ice dams so as to not pay twice for the same slopes. He proudly told me he had NOT climbed the roofs but had allowed a minimum repair to each building. That amount was no where near the actual damages cause by the ice dam. He also was not aware some of the buildings had ice/water shield and others did not. All was well documented by my photographs.
He laughed and said there was no way he was going to climb all those. I did, properly scoped the damages and reached an agreed price for repairs with the roofing contractor, who by the way had the only matching shingles warehoused as he was still roofing other new buildings in the same complex. The color and exposure had been discontinued by the manufacturer.
I have a compact ladder but since these were triple pulls from each end, I went to your favorite Home Depot, bought a cheap light weight ladder and carried it with me from end to end.
It's okay to paint us with the same brush--just don't dip the brush quite so deep in the paint bucket!
Is he typical of all staff adjusters? I know he isn't. Some of my best friends are staff adjusters and darn good ones.
I also hope the independent adjuster of whom you refer is not typical of all independent adjusters "there." If he is, then you have a real problem for your management and for your Insureds.
These pages and this profession has some of the best staff and independent adjusters you will ever find. Are there lazy ones in both staff and independents--you bet--we just have to hope they get weeded out as soon as possible to maintain the integrity of all of us because in the end, what we say we do and see, properly documented, is all there really is to base the payment of millions of dollars in indemnity to the policyholders. |
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To measure a roof or not.
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