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RJ
32 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2002 : 00:21:37
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Ghostbuster:
Protection for the storm trooper? That is a very good question. Unfortunately I don’t see any. If I thought for one minute that a strong enough organization could be built that would accomplish the goals that have been set forth on this site I would join in the movement in a heart beat.
However, the numbers are just not there to make this a success. So instead of fighting the system we have decided to make improvements that will improve the bottom line for all parties involved. After all, as the saying goes, you have to make hay while the sun shines. For cat adjusters that is only after a dark day for others.
Remember we are independent contractors that depend on the misfortunes of others to make a living by providing financial solutions for their problems. No problems mean no requirement of our services which equals no income. During active storm years we are all too busy to be involved in organizing and in slow storm years we can not afford the expense of an organization.
With fee schedules constantly being reduced because it seems that every time you turn around someone starts a new adjusting firm adding more competition for fewer claims it has constantly become increasingly harder and harder to make enough to bridge the gaps between assignments.
Developing other income streams is not as easy as many make it sound. I have a good question for you. What type and how many employers would hire someone knowing in advance that the individual being hired may have to leave at any moment without notice and have no idea when they will return? I know the answer to this because I have tried. Unless you are prone to lying or misleading someone the answer is always no.
That is why I have chosen to become involve with the advanced technology I previously spoke about. If cat adjusters are going to financially survive in this business, they are going to have to increase their production capabilities, reduce operation expenses and at the same time provide better service along with a higher quality product.
By the way Linda, we are still adjusting here in New Orleans.
RJ |
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RJ
32 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 00:54:23
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Ghostbuster:
I hope I have not mislead you. The 30 minutes training I was taking about only pertains to the use, application and incorporation of our technology as it relates to the adjusting profession and the insurance industry. Our new technology will in no way, shape or form teach anything about adjusting. The technology we will be introducing is only a tool. While it will be a very (no extremely) valuable tool and the only one of it’s kind in the world it will not in any way replace an adjuster. Sorry at this time I can not disclose anything more about it until we are ready other than to say it will be the best investment in your adjusting business that you will ever make.
RJ |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 09:42:25
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| RJ, I must say you have my interest tweeked regarding the new technology. You are in the land of good food and good music. Work safely and keep those monster mosquitoes at bay. I thought Alaska held the record for the largest but I do believe Lousiana has them beat hands down. |
Edited by - Linda on 10/20/2002 09:43:25 |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 11:08:15
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I am not sure, so this is just an opinion. I believe there has to be a vested intrest in any technology to get off the ground. Therein lies a conflict of intrest where the adjuster is concerned. The adjuster has to pay through the nose for something which is no benifit to his purse. The price we pay for programs that are required by the carrier cuts into the bottom line. The programs are a benifit to the carrier, more so than the IA. It makes you wonder who has the vested intrest and who has invested intrest.
I can't invision any program that would benifit the carrier and the adjuster. If the program is that good, the carriers like it, the adjusters will have to come up with the cost of developement and implementation.
We have a system in place now, the adjusters are paying for it big time. The adjuster has moved to the bottom of the food chain, thats the status as I see it. It is always easier to defend a position than it is to go on the offensive. On the defesnive, you never make a gain, you still lose through attrition. RJ has gone on the offensive and if he makes it through the smoke filled rooms where the publicans and sinners do their dealings, he will make it big.
Then again theres a chance he will come head on with the "in crowd".
It is not going to cost the insurers a dime for new technology, and they could care less what it costs the adjuster, they may be making money so far as I know. The small software providers are being swallowed up simply because they cannot compete with the "in crowd" in the smoke filled rooms, they are being cut out of the picture one at a time.
The IAs have moved to the bottom of the food chain by their own inaction. There are vendors that are only interested in the bottom line, then we have the software providers, much like the company store, use us or else. I cannot say all vendors are the same, but some are contributing to the down grading of the adjuster. Most are doing their best, at least sixty percent. The flood of new people into the market, and the multitude of new vendors is not helping the situation. The new IAs must get involved know who to work for, when to lay back. Do not go out before you are ready, you will only be hurting yourself and other IAs. The more I listen to people on this forum, the more I am proud to have turned down Cat work in the latest storms. I am new, not ready and certainly not willing to do a halfa-- job or take away from fellow adjusters who in the long run will build our reputation as proffessionals. You gotta know when to sit on the bench and when to get in the game.
All the incoherant garbage been said, I think we should dig in defensively or join forces and go on the offence. If you dig in and wait there is no promise of gain. It will only cost if you sit on your hands and watch your livelyhood go out with the tide.
The cost to organize is not the problem, we're organizing adjusters not money. Ghost Buster is turning blue in the face, holding his breath waiting for the thundering heard of Storm Troopers to come over the hill to save him from this crowd of heathens that want his scalp and wampum. Did I hear a bugle?
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RJ
32 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 13:25:09
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Newt:
I have been an Cat adjuster for over a decade now and as such I am very much aware of the costs of doing business. Part of what you are saying is true in that most of the time an investment by the adjuster really doesn’t add to the adjusters purse in that he will make a profit on his investment. The truth of the matter is with out the investment in what ever is required by the carrier or adjusting firm there will be no work assignments coming your way. Twenty years ago nearly all adjusting of property damage was hand written. Make a mistake and start the paper work all over. Today it is almost unheard of to complete property damage reports by hand.
The reason the speed of the computer estimating has not resulted in much faster file completion times is due to the volume of loss information that is now required as compared to the days of hand written estimates.
As for our new technology we have completed a considerable amount of beta testing and we have pasted the point of speculation and now it is just a matter of time before we will complete the final phase before making our announcement.
Newt this is a new tool. The carriers, adjusting firms and yes the adjusters will all have to invest in this new technology. However, as I stated previously immediately following the implementation of our new technology everyone using it will experience cost savings on operating expenses. Cost savings alone will be much greater that the cost of acquiring & maintaining our new technology not to mention increased productivity with many other benefits that just do not exist at the current time. Yes this new technology will add to the bottom line profits for everyone using it from the carriers down the chain to the adjusters.
While the call to organize by Ghostbuster is for a good cause, our free enterprise system, governing laws and the relative small amount of adjusters will limit it’s effectiveness as I see it. Looking at the overall picture there are many adjusters available for every open position and when you factor in the carriers that will offer training to anyone off the street the numbers are unlimited. Even if an organization were to be formed I question it’s ability to climb to the top of this mountain. In my opinion it is a good cause long overdue, however, in the world of reality I just don’t see it happening.
RJ |
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Tom Toll
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 13:31:48
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After 42 years in this business, I feel very strongly that there is no instrument in which to control or guide the carriers or vendors. The IA will have to, by necessity, learn to save money to live on until the next storm hits. Reduce expenses in all facets of the work and be as technically oriented as humanly possible. Find equipment with longevity, keep your vehicle in top condition and serviced regularly, keep your equipment clean and treat it with care. Select one estimating system and work for those who use it.
When you arrive at a catastrophe and receive losses, make contacts ASAP, set up your files, get on Delorme and route your files per day, then call and set appointments per your routing on Delorme. Do not waste time under any circumstances. Buy sandwiches or make them instead of cafe's and restaurants. One minute wasted is one minute you will not receive pay. Time is all we have and it must be spent well, or you will not make it in this game. We are independent adjuster's who contract to vendors to perform a service, and that is all we do. We have no tools in our pouchs to insist on anything, its sad, but very true.
Janice and I are working in Lafayette for an excellent vendor, Cunningham Lindsey. We get work from them because we are very conscientious about what we do. We make contacts and return calls immediately, not later. We expedite as quickly as possible as soon as we know the loss has been evaluated properly. We do not bitch about the pay scale, we just work the losses as quickly and as well as we know how to do.
While down in the breakfast area in the hotel we are staying at, we hear bitching about pay, but we have noticed some of the adjusters goofing off and not working. If you waste 30 minutes or an hour grumbling, you have lost income. Get up at 5:00 AM, see all your appointments, come back and work till you cannot keep your eyes open. That is just part of this occupation. Work your claims as quickly as possible, do them well, report them well, and report them in a timely manner. Build your reputation with good and quality work. Don't be known as a bitcher, it will get you nowhere. If you don't like what the carriers and vendors do, go find another place of employment. This is a job you must love to do. This is a job where you must like or love the idea of helping someone in distress. If you don't you are finished before you get started. Keep a positive attitude and listen to your own conscious thought, not that of others. I truly feel sorry for those who post negative thoughts on CADO. My philosophy has always been: LIFE IS SIMPLE AND WONDERFUL, IT IS THE HUMAN BEING THAT COMPLICATES IT. Just my two cents worth. |
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RJ
32 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 16:04:25
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Good post Tom
RJ |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 17:14:06
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You bet, Tom is always one to come through. I have these thoughts and something I really don't understand ,I just make a post and ,wala, I get my answers. Its a cheap lowdown dirty way to get information from pros but all is fair in adjusting. Now that Tom knows how underhanded I am he probably will never respond to my non sense and I will have to go away in ignorant bliss.
Sounds good RJ and I hope you the best with your project, we need some new ideas or old ideas revised. I will blow the bugle when you get ready to come over the hill.
Whether it happens or not I do like organizations, because of the fellowship and education we gain from each others experiences. It also gives one voice instead of the voice of many. Oh well, it will probably never happen. Over the years I have made many friends VIA ham radio,most have been friends for thirty years or more. I have met most of them in person. WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER...If you take the boss a problem, have three solutions, two of which don't cost anything.
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 23:37:17
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Tom, your words echo the sentiments of a platoon sergeant I once had the pleasure of serving under. I was a newly promoted buck sergeant, overwhelmed with my new level of responsiblilty and having a hard time adjusting to having to make sure not only was I where I was supposed to be with what I was supposed to have, at the time I was supposed to be there, but I also had to run heard on the other 5 members of my squad and make sure they did it too.
I was talking to a bunch of sergeants and a couple of 2nd Lt's and just bitching my head off. That platoon sergeant pulled me aside and said, "Nobody likes a whiner, don't bitch about it, just get it done."
That's all he said, and he turned and walked away. That brief conversation has really made a big difference in my outlook on life and the way I approach a task. Just make it your own and get it done. Everytime I feel a little overwhelmed and feel the need to vent, I just remember that sergeant's words and forge ahead, because once the task is complete the problem is gone and there's nothing left to bitch about. |
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pilot48
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 11:35:39
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| What if they had a storm.........and no one showed up? Barginning power starts with the ability to stay off a storm! when there's a need, true results are attained. |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 15:54:36
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People depending on an income to feed their brood will show up. With the lack of work for the past few years, from what I understand, there is no adjusters market. If every one was flush, maybe there could be some room for cutting the deal. In the meantime we sit on our hands and wait. I look for the waiting to come to a halt and many will drift off into other avenues of employment. If I didn't think I would like the work or had to depend on this for an income, I would have taken a hike before I started spending money for training and equipment. I think I will really like this, and sooner or later I will get to try it. What I would hate to see is the our best team mates go into something else due to necessity and leave a bunch with my talents(none) trying to figure out stuff on our own. I am sure a lot of these guys could find other work in a heart beat. The talent of a good adjuster could be used in many fields.
Tom, I have heard many on here bring up the DeLorme system, I never used it. I do have the Streets and Trips and the Garmin GPS system with the scrolling map. It worked real well for me in locating my customers. I used their coordinates on all my work orders and records. I think it works much like the Delorme program with waypoints. Map out a route on the laptop and it gives you the position of your vehicle on the route and you just keep the arrow on the track. You can also print it out for a hard copy. Do you think I need to change? Is there an advantage?
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genco
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 00:40:36
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I am in total agreement. There is a point many seem to miss. There are quality craftsman that can do a job for Xactmate prices the correct way (high quality work). The problem is, carriers do not honor the prices and/or all of the line items required to do the job right. Isn't that the whole point of using these estimating programs? In my experience of 18 years in more cases than not it is the homeowner that chooses the cheaper "illegal alien" or storm chaser roofing company that will allow them to pocket a portion of the money, then turn around and complain to the carrier about the poor job & expect a re-do.
A solution that can be brought to the floor now is, pay all the line items to do the job right to begin with, which will give the insured the funds to contract with a reputable contractor, thereby releasing the carrier from liability. Face it, most storm claims are settled for below the Xactimate prices and when the insured starts to accept bids the only roofers or contractors that can do it for that sum is the "fly-by-night" outfit's that change there company name when they reach the highway. 40-50% of the owners don't call back for an adjustment and assume thats all the carrier will pay. Yes, yes I know the insured hires the workers, but if the carrier does not pay the going prices for the area and an insured hires a sub-standard company based on the fact that they are the only one's that can do the job for the money allowed. There is a lialility issue for the carrier because they did not honor the price list they utilize.
Another issue, individuals from Farmers Ins. regarding hail storms in the 62069 area called in the storm chasers to the area. Made and agreement for below Xactimate prices,( thereby exculuding ) reputable companies from competative bidding for jobs. The storm chasers locked up 90 jobs immediatly, performed sub-standard work, cashed the checks and left town. Several weeks later almost all of those jobs had mechanics liens placed on them as no materials were paid for. So now the carriers that were involved are faced with paying for the materials again and repairing all of the roofs as many leak. The company that did the work disappeared from the face of the earth.
A Farmers adjuster brought this situation to lite ( unlikely he still works there ) and told about the deals that where being made with the storm chasers. Wonder if the carrier got by Cheaper at the end of the day. |
Genco Joe |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:37:21
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Joe, I know about the storm chasers. During Hugo there were more rip offs than you could count. Seemed like everyone on Johns Island got ripped off. I was offered many jobs there, and refused them, I didn't know about the claims, just that they wanted me to do their work. At the time I only did my relatives home and had to get back to my business here. The lady next door had paid up front money and was waiting for the work to get started, so far as I know the guy skipped. Anyhow I had mine done in 11 days and was gone. It was the last one started on that street and the first one finished that had major damage. I couldn't get any help so it was solo. Being over sixty didn't slow me down, it just took me longer to rest up.
I doubt I would work for someone who would rip folks off, if I knew it was deliberate. I don't have any idea how you could warn people about scam artists, those guys are experts and so believable.
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slowhandfan
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 20:07:38
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Over the past 3 years I have worked for Farmers and State Farm and never have I paid a claim under the Xactimate line item pricing. How can a carrier not honor the Xactimate pricing when the check is written based on an estimate of these items? It is also my experience that if legitimate cost above the original estimate are incurred then the carrier will pay the additional cost. The good, quality contractors that work these storms usually aren't the ones making noise about pricing. 90% of the time the ones bitching are the ones that end up screwing people in the end. I get so tired of people continually bitching about what carriers pay. If it is so off, then how come countless numbers of contractors do good work and make lots of money doing it. As for the homeowners, buyer beware.. it is up to the customer to make sure they know who they are signing a contract with. It's not that hard to find a quality contractor that does good work. In the end, adjusters pay what the carriers allow them to pay, nothing more and nothing less.
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Kerry A Freeman |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 20:48:58
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They go into the data base and change the prices. You can take a SF estimate written on their computer and run the exact same estimate on another computer and come up with a different result.
They have been doing this for years. It's just they haven't been called on it yet. |
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