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Archive through March 23, 2000Harold J. Geoffrey22 3-23-00  8:29 pm
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storm pro
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2000 - 8:26 am:   

Does anyone have any further info on the adjuster who fell here in Columbia?
One of my insured's advised me that said adjuster has died from the 2 story fall.
I hope this is not the case.
I also heard there was another fall in Fairfax County VA?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
storm pro
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2000 - 5:57 pm:   

I have received a request from another adjuster here in Columbia SC for a demo of the climbing gear I am using.
I am not a professional mountain climber but I will make myself available for anyone in the Columbia SC area that is interested in seeing one possible option pertaining to roof safety. I can show you how myself and two fellow adjusters that are working with me are using the equipment.
Anyone that is interested, please drop me a line at
Once we have all interested parties assembled, I will arrange for a time, date and roof to demonstrate our technique.
If Roy is interested, I can forward some digital images of what we are doing and the equipment that we are using for others to view on CADO.
I am by no means asserting myself nor my colleauges as professional climbers. We would just like to share something that we have found that works for us with all of you.
Thank you for your interest...
storm pro
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 9:58 pm:   

OK John.
I will be over in Woodlake this coming Monday.
My carrier has 3 big nasty ones for me over there to do the roof inspections on.
Please post your e-mail address and I can give you more specific info.
Look forward to meeting with you!

My e-mail is
John Durham (Johnd)
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 6:44 pm:   

I was serious.. not joking.. I have been in the Summit for two weeks, just finished a 54SQ 12:12 and was thinking about you. I want to learn what you are doing to protect yourself.
John Durham
De Undertaker
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 9:54 am:   

I agree with STORMPRO and Ghostbuster. Shall we just "bury" this as a "dead" subject, so to speak?
Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 8:56 am:   

Uhhhh...he's right guys. His intent was discuss roof safety and techniques for steep slopes. I think this just sorta got out of hand.

Let's just all retire to our neutral corners and reflect that we must approach ALL roofs with respect and suspiscion till we are back on terra firma. And even then, watch out for slipping on a slick porch and breaking a bone.
storm pro
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 11:30 pm:   

Ya know what folks. I am done with this discussion. I made a post a few weeks back about roof safety and some of the equipment I purchased to work safely. I thought some of you would be interested in discussing the topic and maybe I could give some of you an idea about how to deal with these dangerous roofs. Well, all I seem to be getting is everyone telling me what an idiot I am for doing what I am doing. So be it. The people I am working for are happy and they are putting food on my table. Yeah, I guess I am taking some chances on these roofs. Well, at least I am doing everything I can to protect myself short of just saying no thanks to the carrier and going home.
When I use the rope and harness gear I am teamed up with a ground assistant provided by the carrier (so I guess they do care about me!) so we do work as a team.
Others here are doing the same job as myself without any fall arrest equipment and I guess my intention was to help those folks if I could.

My point was simply that if you are going to get on these roofs then please be careful and use fall arrest equipment. I don't feel like I was bragging or boasting about my abilities and if I came off that way it was not my intention.
No one is forcing me to get on these roofs and I actually enjoy the challenge.

PS to John Durham

If you were serious about learning anything from me, I will have to decline the invitation. I am not a professional mountain climber. If you want to learn to use the equipment you should stop by an outdoor/climbing shop and have a qualified individual assist you in purchasing and using the equipment you need. Good Luck John and see you in The Summit!
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 11:07 pm:   

Undertaker and Stormpro, just remember that with regard to the claim that kills him, he will not be paid for this file, as it will require a reinspection by another adjuster. Sorry Stormpro but your family doesn't get that 60 bucks for flowers for your funeral. With a little luck, perhaps they can pick up bottles and buy you some plastic ones.
De' Undertaker
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 9:36 pm:   

Why don't we come up with a TOP TEN list of things STORMPRO should do to protect himself if he is going to take unnecesaary risks with his life for the carriers and vendors in order to make $60.00 per claim.

I have a few ideas for starters:

(1) Make sure he has a will (it saves the family from having to post a bond if he dies intestate).

(2) Make sure he has enough insurance to bury his corpse with a decent funeral. (No pine boxes).

(3) Has disability insurance in case he doesn't die but remains a quadraplegic for the remainder of his life.

(4) Be sure he has signed an organ donor card.

(5) Make sure he has enough life insurance for his family to survive without a change in lifestyle.

(6) Takes classes now so that is he doesn't die from an accident, he can still remain an adjuster by working as part of an adjuster team, by handling phone calls to the insureds. He may need to learn to dial the phone with his toes or a prosthetic which he uses with his teeth. Who knows, he might even be able to "write estimates" on his computer using the device in his mouth to punch out the keys.

(7) Picks out and purchases a grave site in advance so his family does not have to do this in a moment of grave loss and crisis.

(8) Sends his personal information to CADO so Roy does not have to make up nice things to say after he has his accident and is gone. A current picture would be nice too.

(9) Chooses his pallbearers, favorite hymns, and eulogist to make it easier on his family later.

(10) Gives his current home address so the vendor and carrier will know where to send their sympathy cards and flowers.
John Durham (Johnd)
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 8:22 pm:   

Hey Storm-Pro:

Email me... I am in Columbia and I want to meet you while you are still able to walk around without artificial assistance. I am staying at the Barnyard RV Park, space L-5, my locat number is (803) 358-9373... I want to learn how you run around on 12:12 roofs....
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 7:54 pm:   

I can not answer about Nationwide. I have inspected damages from the perimeter with permission on many storms for the other three. If the company has a rope and harness team set up, they will do the inspections until they are snowed and they always come back to allow the perimeter as I refuse to take the risk. Of course, this all depends on the reasonableness of the company's supervisors. REMEMBER, YOUR JOB IS TO INSPECT THE DAMAGE. If you do not feel you can determine the damage with a perimeter inspection, then by all means, put your rope and harness to work with a team mate, but be trained to do so and be careful. I will always content that my close inspection of hail for 1/3 of a square near my ladder will reflect the same damage to that slope 1/2 way up or at the very top. Very minor damage could have ridge damage that you can not tell so everything depends the severity of the storm in the area.
Ten years ago, rope and harness inspections by adjusters were unheard of.
The companies will demand it if you will do it. Hope you are getting at least double billing for the risk you are taking. Most will pay it. It is worth more to me than they can pay.
Be careful and good luck!
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 5:17 pm:   

That should have read: Carriers that care about the health, safety and welfare of their adjusters STORMPRO.
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 5:15 pm:   

Carriers who care about the health, safety and welfare is the answer to your question STORMPRO.
storm pro
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 4:59 pm:   

What companies accept a perimeter inspection of a roof? I am driving around here in Columbia all day long and I see adjusters all over the roof tops! This includes: Allstate, State Farm, USAA, Nationwide etc etc
Well, to each his own I guess. I will continue to do my job safely from the rooftops.
Gotta go - files are burning!
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 11:19 am:   

SORRY, I SEE IT WAS WCLAMP THAT DID THE LAST POST. I guess I was only hoping it was you.
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 11:14 am:   

Good to see your not too old to change your mind! LEWIS is sometimes a little catty with his words, but he may have made all of us open our eyes a little to safety and perhaps saved a life or two. That perimeter inspection is smart in my book and frankly makes a lot more sense than crawling over a roof with a harness & rope.
INSPECT THE DAMAGE! I can stick my thumb in a hail bruise to feel it two or three feet from my ladder as well as bending over on a too steep of pitch and taking the risk of death. True, it is more time consuming to move the ladder a bunch of times, but if that person is alive at the end of his or her inspection, I still have a chance to sell them another burger!
Companies need to wake up to this fact.
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2000 - 11:10 pm:   

Storm Pro

My perimeter inspection will do fine, probably much better than a perimeter inspection from within the confines of a coffin.
Jim Flynt (Jim)
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2000 - 8:28 pm:   


The macho ("it won't happen to me") attitude some have is sooner or later going to allow Roy and I to post your obituary here and ask for donations for your family.

Again. When will we ever learn?

No ONE claim nor ONE assignment nor ANY amount of money is EVER worth the risk.

Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2000 - 8:07 pm:   

Well, another fall in virginia, an allstate adjuster fell this past week, she is still in the hospital
The Mole
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2000 - 6:53 pm:   

While I agree that cougar paws or a really good crepe soled shoe may help anyone climb a steep pitch, in my experience it ain't the climb up one has to worry about - it's the climb down and if you have already climbed up that 12:12 pitch, believing your shoes and you can do anything, you might just be in for a nasty shock on the way back down the slope to your ladder
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2000 - 11:32 am:   

With all this talk about roof safety and falls, this comes to mind.
STOP, LOOK and THINK about what you are getting ready to get on. It's like the old train crossing - Stop, Look and Listen.
Get help if you need it, no one will disrespect you for it but it will gain you respect from others who see that you are keeping a safety prospective in mind while doing your work.
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2000 - 8:46 am:   

Guys, It's not the pitch of the roofas Chuck has stated it is bad choices, some from fatigue some from bravado and some from being in a hurry. A 12/12 is not a roof one should be getting on with out some sort of fall protection and yes I know that it can be done I've caught guys on 14/12's before, that didn't make them smart. Cougar paws do hold the slope their is no doubt about it I've tried them but, what worries me is it might give you to much confidence that is when most people fall. I have seen many falls and the causes almost everyone admitted it was a mental error that caused it. The young Newbies are not the ones falling they still have fear. The ones that usually fall are the guys who feel as comfortable on a roof as walking down the side walk. Just be careful guy's and don't forget to be afraid that is what keeps you alive.
Chuck Deaton
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2000 - 7:25 am:   

Guys, I have fallen twice in the last three years, I never hit the ground and fortunately I just banged up digital camera, and after review, the clear cause was not pitch or height, the cause was fatigue. I was just worn out and I made a bad decision. I am sitting here talking to an adjuster with plates and screws and horrendous scars. All gained in a fall.

Please be careful.
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2000 - 12:14 am:   

If some of you adjusters don't kill the macho attitude about your roof climbing skills, the macho attitude in climbing roofs is going to kill you.
Tom Toll (Tom)
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 8:45 pm:   

Balance, egress, digress, slope. All play a role in climbing a roof. It is not advisable to climb on a 12/12 without rope and harness. I have done it in the past, but finally got smart. Cougar Paws, I understand, really glue you to the slope. Lets not get a false sense of security about cougar paws. They do not have a parachute attached to the heels. You fall, you suffer the consequences. Common sense applies. If you are comfortable trying to cheat death, go for it. There are definite ways to inspect a very steep roof without breaking your neck, including photos of the ridge, ridge vents, and overviews. My Father and I are developing a piece of equipment to perform this task and should have it completed within the next several months. When it is complete, plans will be available to you for free.
My Father is 89, building two airplanes, and in the evening memorizes at least a third of the book he is reading. He invented the heliarc welding torch in 1941, and a number of other inventions in his 89 years. He did not put patents on them, stating this was his contribution to his fellow human beings. Man, what an attitude. I rely on him for help on technical issues and have learned and continue to learn from him. I wish all of you had a Father like mine.
I am going to order Cougar Paws as soon as we get home from DFW. Still working commercial losses here. I endorse anything that may give safety to us as a brotherhood. Problem is, I wear a size 14 and sometime 15. I just hope they have enough hide to make them. Good luck and please be safe. Use your brain and your common sense.
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 8:22 pm:   

I'm gonna come in on the side of stormpro on this one. The point here boys, is we must at all times be cautious when the ladder is pulled from the truck! Whether it's a flat roof 1" off the ground or a steep and tall monster, the real risk of injury or death stares us in the face. Let us not get into a bragging contest as to the pitch we are dealing with out there. Let us all just be very careful and thankful when we come down off it in one healthy piece.
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 7:26 pm:   

Just someone that knows what a 12/12 pitch is. Very simple. Check it out.
storm pro
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 4:48 pm:   

Dear L. Watts,

With all due respect sir, who the hell are you to tell me that I can't walk a 12/12 roof? Have you been following me on my CAT assignments?
Come on down to Columbia SC and I will prove to you that its not a big deal. Other regulars to this page will attest to this feat as well.
My whole point when I posted this whole bit about climbing steep roofs was to preach safety. The unfortunate accident with Glen was a wake up call I took to heart and one that I hope others will heed as well. You do your thing from the edge of the roof and that's fine. I will continue to try to be the best I can be. I was somewhat surprised by the near negative response by some to my intial post a few days ago.
Gotta go back to writing up claims now.
Let me know when you are coming down.
See ya...
Steve Ebner
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 6:13 am:   

Gotta add my two cents worth. (which reminds me of a Steven Wright joke -- How come they give you a penny for your thoughts if you have to put your two cents in. Someone's making a profit.) I hope they never take the roof climbing part of this business away. I feel very much at peace on the roof. But if I ever get so at ease I stop respecting the roof, it will be time to hang it up. One of the best things about a Texas hailstorm is all that roof climbing. You can have your stairmasters and tanning beds; give me a ladder and a sloped incline heating up in the Texas sun. (The cat's paws may not be a bad idea either.)
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 2:58 am:   

NO YOU CAN'T and I never had one to go to court.
storm pro
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 12:27 am:   


TO: L. Watts-

What's the big deal about 10/12 roofs anyway?
With Cougar Paws I can walk on 12/12's
storm pro
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 12:20 am:   

I wonder how your perimeter inspection of the roof is going to sound in court after you deny the claim for hail damage to the roof?
Getting on the roof to make an inspection to verify damage or no damage is part of the job, period. How do those aluminum ridge vents look from the gutter by the way?
No offense but you guys should stay on the porch and get inside claims postions or become managers.
I too thouoght estimating was part of my job. I guess I have wasted alot of time over the last 18 years.
Old Dog
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 10:21 pm:   

As an adjuster, the estimate is part of my job,,,,so I guess I am an estimator also. I may get hurt if I fall off a roof, but it would hurt my pride much more if I didn't look at what I'm asked to give an opinion on. How can I give an opinion if I've not looked at it (and I also have to touch those hail impacts,,,,part of my job)And I might add, I work for a company that is known for for having more than it's share of high and steep. I'm over 60 and when I find one I can't look at, I'll hang it up. I may be an old dog, but I can still bury a bone.
Chim Chim
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 9:58 pm:   

I'm glad to hear that so many adjusters aren't interested in getting on roofs anymore.
Please ask your team leader to send your claims to me and I will handle them.
More bananas for me!
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 12:22 pm:   

I have to agree with you about the perimeter inspection. Going to agree about adjusters having become estimators also. You must be old as dirt in this business.

I can remember an adjuster that got into trouble with the insured and the company one time, and a good adjuster made the statement, "You don't surpose he was trying to adjust the loss do you".

Adjusting the loss went by the way of children running companies. Most didn't come up through the real adjusting ranks and were promoted way ahead of their knowledge.

Oh well, lets just smile and make the most of this crazy world!
L. Watts
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 10:28 am:   

When did we allow an adjuster's job to become an estimater's job? We use to adjust the loss. Now they want to make monkeys out of us. If the company wants to crawl all over a roof like a monkey with a rope and harness,when an inspection is all that should be necessary, let them furnish the monkeys. Many to those monkeys don't know what they are doing once they get on the roof. FRANKLY, I CAN TELL JUST AS MUCH WITH A PERIMATER INSPECTION ON THE LADDER AS THE GUY CRAWLING THE ROOF UNLESS THERE IS AN AREA THAT CANNOT BE SEEN. THE HAIL DAMAGE ALONG THE EDGES WILL BE THE SAME 30 FEET ABOVE ME.
L. Watts
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 10:07 am:   

Need to check your pitch if you think you have been walking a 10/12!!!!!
If you have been walking 10/12 pitch roofs, I have these shoes you can climb the side of a house. Just think, don't need a ladder anymore.
R.D. Hood (Dave)
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2000 - 12:03 am:   

Another way to get it "Over the top" is using a stout fishing pole with 40# monofiliment line and a 4 oz sinker (Use the tear drop kind) make sure you have someone in the rear to protect the area and tie off the lead line and then he/she can drag the rope over the top and tie it off.

We have used about every way we can think of, the Bow &Arrow is good.

"I shot an arrow into the air, it landed, I know not where"

Be safe , be sure.
storm pro
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 11:43 pm:   

Thank you Cecelia for your positive comments to my post. I didn't see the need for slamming SF again or for making such an assumption either. By the way I am NOT working for SF anyway. I don't have a problem with getting on the roofs and if I did I guess I wouldn't be here and would probably not have a future in this business. This is the trend in building folks!
Yes, DaBear "know before you go" but lets be prepared when we get there too. I want to do the best job I can for my vendor and the carrier and be remembered for the same when the next storm comes.
Sorry to hear about the NW adjuster John. I used to work over there as a staffer and I wonder if it was an IA or a staff guy/gal?
Anyway, lets work safe and set some new standards for this business.
P.S. - Thanks for the input on the crossbow idea. Will look into this and let you all know how it works.
John Durham
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 6:02 pm:   

True abo9ut the roofs in Columbia, SC... The area that received the most damage is in NE Columbia and the building codes require 8:12 roofs in almost all the developments. Most are two story and steep is hardly the word. Had one today 14:12 with a 63 degree slope. The builder was there and said he did'nt want any part of re-roofing this "Turkey."
This afternoon MY HEART SANK when I heard that a Nationwide Adjuster fell from a roof and received substantial injuries. I do not have any information regarding the accident...

lefe is to short
Glad to hear about the safety equipment. Will check this out..
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 9:40 am:   

Thank you Storm Pro. I really enjoyed your post. What a logical thing (why didn't anyone post the idea sooner) to go to a professional to outfit us and teach us how to climb?

Then we get the usual (and, unfortunately, I am sure there will be more) negative post(s) regarding what you "have" to do to work your storm. I guess you could've been a REAL whiner and told your vendor and company (after seeing the roofs there) "never mind. I can't do it. No one will do it. It's too high and it's too hard and it's too dangerous (even with professional climbing equipment and instruction) and you won't pay me enough". That sounds professional. I'm sure you'd be hired by that company again and your vendor would look favorably upon sending you to another assignmenment with another vendor.

We keep talking about professionalism here. Well, some of us do. I will be getting a pair of Cougar Paws, but I don't know if I would feel comfortable walking a 10/12. I'd feel better in a harness. I might change my mind once I get the shoes, but to have the other option is a positive thing. I think it would be GREAT to go to a storm and know that you could climb a roof, any roof.

And why do we have to assume that the company is State Farm and then bash State Farm for requiring their adjusters to climb the roofs? The statement was something to the effect that SF requires it's adjusters to climb all roofs regardless of (many reasons). I don't know for a fact that they do. I've just heard that. Here. In this forum. But I've also heard, from adjusters I know that have worked for SF (although it was over 2 years ago) that SF has it's own Steep and High crew. Things may have changed.

The posting would have been more positive if the question "Is the company State Farm? Because I've heard (or I've worked for them and I know) and here is their posted fee schedule for steeps and highs and two storys" etc.

Again, thank you Storm Pro. I guess your name says it all.

Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 8:02 am:   

The procedure for getting the messinger over the roof is to use a bow and arrow. Question is did you sign on for this assignment knowing you would have to become a mountain climber? Can we safely assume that this is a State Farm assignment? I they are the only carrier that I know of that would insist on adjusters doing that kind of climbing.

I have been walking 10/12 comp roofs lately with my Cougar Paws, but I would not think of endangering my life by getting on a roof that I needed such a rig, or that I was not 100% comfortable with.

Come on guys, no amount of money is worth all that. It has been my experience that carriers that insist on "climbing every slope of every roof" also have the cheap schedules. Everyone has their own opinion, but it seems to me that you have reached the "point of diminishing returns".

Know BEFORE your go...
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 7:56 am:   

The procedure for getting the messinger over the roof is to use a bow and arrow. Question is did you sign on for this assignment knowing you would have to become a mountain climber? Can we safely assume that this is a State Farm assignment? I they are the only carrier that I know of that would insist on adjusters doing that kind of climbing.

I have been walking 10/12 comp roofs lately with my Cougar Paws, but I would not think of endangering my life by getting on a roof that I needed such a rig, or that I was not 100% comfortable with.

Come on guys, no amount of money is worth all that. It has been my experience that carriers that insist on "climbing every slope of every roof" also have the cheap schedules. Everyone has their own opinion, but it seems to me that you have reached the "point of diminishing returns".

Know BEFORE your go...
chuck deaton
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 7:55 am:   

I have been using a small compound bow I picked up at Wal mart. I attached some spiderwire fishing line to the arrow and just shoot it over the ridge. I haven't tried it on anything higher than a low two story, but it works. You will have to do some testing to get the kinks worked out.
storm pro
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2000 - 12:50 am:   

Just recently arrived in Columbia SC for new assignment. My first stop after checking in at the CAT office and then making living arrangements was Adventure Carolina where I met the manager Brian who was extremely helpful and helped myself and another fellow adjuster select the proper climbing gear once we explained to him what our intentions were. We were both outfitted with 150' of static line (resistant to wear but has no elasticity) a harness and a GRIGRI (yes that is spelled correctly and pronounced GREE GREE)which is a device that you thread your rope through and then attaches to your harness via a carabeaner. The grigri is a device that allows the rope to slide freely unless you put weight on the line and which point it locks and prevents you from sliding any further down the line and hence off of the roof. This is the tricky part because if you thread the rope through the grigri the wrong way it will not "catch" and you will fall. You need to give it a test pull first before going too high off the ground to make sure you have it in the right way.

We also picked up some webbing which is nothing more than some simple nylon loops about 1/2" wide by about 2' long. These loops are used to go around your tie off points to which you secure each end of your rope.

The total cost of the equipment ran us about $320
which included a free lesson from Brian at the store on their make shift climbing wall out back. I think he enjoyed helping us as much as we did learning.

We are in the process of getting used to our equipment and improving our technique but I have to say that so far everything is working very well and we both feel confident that we can handle any roof here ( and there are some bad boys here - some worse than those in Reston VA)
If anyone has any suggestions on how to get the smaller lead string used to pull up the climbing rope over the roof ridge, please let me know. Right now we are using a softball tied to the lead string but this is not working very well.

I hope everyone invests some time and money in this worthwhile effort to keep us safe. Yes, it is taking extra time to do our inspections and I am sure that in time our speed and skill will increase. I am afraid that the trend in residental construction is too build with ever more steeper and higher roofs and that it will become impossible for anyone without the equipment and skills to inspect these roofs.
Look at it this way, wouldn't you rather handle all the claims that you are assigned without having to ask for assistance or to hand any back?
Doesn't that make you a better adjuster and not just a safer one?

If anyone has any questions about the equipment or technique, or has any suggestions on how to do this better, please post on this board or e-mail me.
Posted on Friday, April 07, 2000 - 12:22 am:   

Neal, Thank you for your response. In this particular case, I was not there, I can only respond to what I have also read on this site. Based on what I have read regarding this accident, the individual fell from a roof head first onto a concrete patio. It would be my assumption due to the nature of the fall that the other individual called for medical attention/rescue personnel. Therefore the accident must have been reported. I'm reasonably sure the the attending rescue personnel and the local medical attending facility inquired as to why this individual was on the roof. Someone would have determined he was not the owner of the residence therefore he must have been working there for whatever reason. Conclusion: this accident must have been reported.

Hypothetically, if I had accidentally fallen off of the roof who is responsible for reporting the fatality? My spouse or the contracted orgnization of which I am not their reportable employee under the safety reporting guidlines.
Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 11:32 am:   


What regulations? Please ellucidate if you don't mind as we would like to know.

(I hope I haven't opened a Pandoras box here...)
Neal Mohlmann
Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 8:43 am:   

The VA Department of Labor and Industry (DOLI) includes the Virginia Occupational Safety & Health (VOSH) Program, which is a Federal OSHA approved state plan. This means that VOSH has the jurisdiction in Virginia that Federal OSHA has in states (and D.C./terrotories) that do not have an approved state plan. Federal OSHA does not have jurisdiction in Virginia, except for Federal workers - if this accident was reported to Federal OSHA, they would refer it to us.

With regard to reporting this incident, based on my limited knowledge, this appears reportable. All work related fatalities are reportable, and we have investigted fatalites of sole proprietors.

A curious aspect of this incident is that we have good relations with rescue workers and law enforcers, and they are typically very good about notifying us when they respond to significant work realted accidents. I would like to know if Police/Sherrif/rescue squad responded to this accident when it occured. This is another reason I'd like to hear from someone with fitst hand knowledge.

The benefits of reporting such an accident do go beyond mere statistics. Understanding the causes of accidents, identifying hazardous occupations, and identifying opportunities to improve can help to avoid recurrences. I do not envision regulations specific to catastrophe adjusters, if that is a concern, becasue you all are already covered by regulations.

Again, to the extent that we can provide prevetative assistance in Virginia, we would be happy to do so.
Lenny Wenrick
Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 12:04 am:   

Neal Mohlmann, Department of Labor and Industry

If Glen was a selfemployed contractor is this a reportable work related accident? and if it is a reportable accident, is it for satictical pruposes only? And if it is a reportable accident, what is your agency going to do? He surly would not be entiled to workmans comp. coverage. The only agency I am awear that would need a report filed would be Fed. OSHA. I am just asking for understanding not a debate.
Neal Mohlmann
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 4:31 pm:   

On the preventative side, I should have added that we also have a consultation division that would be happy to provide some organized training on fall protection. So if any of you all are located in Northern Virginia or in some way would like organize a session in fall protection in Northern Virginia, please let me know.

Otherwise you should have little, if any, problem finding good sources of information on the internet for fall protection.
Neal Mohlmann
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 4:15 pm:   

I have been directed to this site by an individual who has not revealed their identity. If Glen Garoutte was the victim in a fatal work related accident in Fairfax County, Virginia it was not properly reported since we have no record of such an event. Anyone wishing to come forward to complete a formal report is encouraged to do so, and WE WILL INVESTIGATE. I can be reached as follows:

Neal Mohlmann, Regional Director
Department of Labor and Industry
Commonwealth of Virginia
10515 Battleview Parkway
Manassas, VA 20109
Phone: 703-392-0900 x110
Fax: 703-392-0308

Thanks You, and my condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Garroutte.

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