| Author |
Message |
older than dirt
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 2:12 pm: | |
Virtual agents, next virtual adjusters.
Where will it end, maybe the companys will e-mail the customers a picture of what their house (repaired) would look like if they paid the claim.
Just try to pay your premiums with virtual money |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 1:48 pm: | |
Diference of opinion here, the disbursement of someone elses money is of the most importance. We each routinely spend more in claim payments on a single storm than the agent collects over the entire year in premiums.
View it from this standpoint, the insurance transaction is like a three legged stool: We have the customer, the salesman selling the promise, (i.e. the policy), and then we have the adjuster. His/her function is the fulfilling of the promise. Each of these three legs are required on the milkstool to keep the bucket of milk from spilling on the ground.
We are seeing already, the eliminating of the agent thru telephone and internet sales. That leg is getting very shaky. Now, do we want the adjusters leg to get whittled down thru the use of approved shop programs?
Pardon my rambling on and on. I'm gonna sit back awhile and let others mull this over. Later,Bye. |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 1:31 pm: | |
OK, I'll step up and take my flogging! It has been awhile since any contact with USAA. And, things can and do change in our industry. Witness our former nemesis,'we can do it ourselves' State Farm. I humbly stand corrected.
Now, back to the firing line...Lock and load!
Yes, there is a reinspector going out, but what happened to the basic premise that it is the ADJUSTERS job to investigate, assess, and settle the loss per the contract?
Yes, this practice has come and gone repeatedly over the years, but that does not mean it should!
And, with the contraction of the Insurance industry in terms of numbers of small stock companies that used to exist and provide us with a good chunk of work/income, we are now more dependent on the larger carriers. The very same ones that are swinging the pendulum towards the approved shop programs.
Patience? I got that, but my creditors, stomach, and the IRS do not! |
gaadjuster
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 1:21 pm: | |
I think to say "that our function is the most important in the Industry" is incorrect. Were it not for the agent who starts this whole process by "selling" the insured, there would be no carriers, no claims department, and certainly no adjusters. If you think about it, the decision to purchase insurance starts with the insured and not the agent, so technically, the insured is the most important part of this industry. Without the insureds, we would all be out flippin burgers with The Phantom. |
Stromcrow
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 12:10 pm: | |
I worked my first USAA storm last fall. Ghost, nothing you say was so in my experience, but I do not know how they operated in the past. I enjoyed the assignment, was treated fairly and was allowed to adjust. I am looking forward to my next experience. |
David Bennett
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 11:29 am: | |
Ghostbuster, its obvious from your comments that you have not worked for USAA for quite some time. You see there members (insured's or customers as some carriers refer to them) are not just military personal. Also, the old rumors or truths about payments made because of rank and long term membership, just don't hold true today. The Local Office, Regional Office and Catastrophe Management Team that I worked with for the last 6 months, held true to the policy wording unless the local custom or decisions by other carriers on similar losses had swung so much that they had to change their position. Not once in the 6 months was a decision to pay based on rank or longevity with the company.
All carriers make decisions, sometimes referred to as executive decisions, on payments where coverage may or may not be easily identified.
As for approved shops, this practice has come and gone over the years. The thing that makes the approved shop go is reinspections by, guess who, a qualified adjuster. In times of storms, there is to much business for the approved shop to handle so, as Cat adjusters we will continue. As for adjusting in general, those who are capable will also continue.
Legislative action, I hope you have success. You see, I see the shops as justifying our position even more than before. Why? Because in the end when the average claim payment has risen continuously and the Officers of the company question why, then the result is to go back out and inspect with adjusters, either I.A or staff. You see, there are several major carriers who currently inspect everything over a certain threshold, (a threshold that is considerably lower than the one you dealt with at American General) Patience, it will turn around again. |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 10:58 am: | |
Well David,
Thank you for making my argument for altering an industry practice for me. Out here in the real world versus your artificial USAA 'MEMBERS' GI country club, an adjuster is the one soul hired to truthfully determine the actual owed amount of a loss. In fact ours is the most important function of the industry! Can the Insured be truly trusted when they are the reciepients of someone elses money? Can any contractor or body shop be trusted for the disbursement of someone elses money when they are also the reciepient? If the answer was yes, then we would not exist in the first place.
David, you and I both know that in the upper right corner of a USAA loss report is the code designating the length of time a member has been on the books. And the older that date, the more that soul is 'entitled' to for not just bow & scrape service, but also a free gift in terms of upgrades from say the $5.00 mailbox to the $100 mailbox by justifying it in the activity log. Particularly, if the service rank is Major & up and widowed. If you enjoy this as a work environment, then be at peace and go forth with Gods blessing. I cannot. That is the basic reason why USAA has members and not Insureds.
We must at all costs maintain our status in the insurance function. And I mean this from both the company staff level and Independent. That some hot-shot corporate suit wants to slam the claims department is not a new thing, and that is why together we must have the practice of the approved shop stopped at the legislative level. |
David Bennett
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 8:04 am: | |
This is definitely interesting reading. Regarding the use of the internet to lower costs. The last company I worked for had started doing that 2 years ago. The cost factor they are looking to reduce is the underwriting cost. You see someone believes that any information provided by the insured over the internet is 100% factual. Thus the risk analysis can be filled out by the insured or the agent and the policy issued on line immediately without the benefit of an underwriter or risk manager reviewing the information. This of course was to be limited as to the dollar exposure, but of course some larger exposures slip through the system. The program is in place and has indeed reduced the underwriting cost but the downside has been the claims cost has increased. That being the average paid claim has increased and of course the cost to adjust the claims. This resulted in an attempt to reduce the adjustment cost by having claims up to 10,000 handled over the phone with estimates as they truly believe the contractor and insured would be honest. Its a never ending cycle. Oh well.
Now to the 2nd part of the reading. USAA. By my account, they are an excellent company to work for. Most of the storm supervisors and managers are long time property personnel who are quite experienced not just in storm but in property losses as a whole. (You know, fires, arson, fraud, water losses, etc. Most losses your average storm adjuster never handles) As for their fee schedule, Ya it could be better, but then again every fee schedule could be better. Yes you can make more money working on a per file basis in the short run, but you know, if your good at what you do, USAA has a tendancy to recognize that and you end staying as long as you would like.
The folks I have dealt with are people orientated and provide all the assistance and help you would need. A very professional organization.
Of course there are those that would disagree and generally they have good reasons to do such. But there is ALWAYS TWO SIDES TO THE STORY!
Let me also say to those that jump the gun and immediatly think banning together to put a stop to the insurance industry practices. I suggest you take a hard look at your position in this chain. You, we are not the main concern for the industry. Their customer, customer service and their bottom line are the driving factors today. We are expendable, have been and always will be, this includes the staff adjuster as well.
USAA and others have been very good to me and I recognize that I have two jobs to fill, provide customer service to the industry and provide customer service to their customers. I will continue to do so and continue to make my weekly deposits to the bank. |
Bill Burnett
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 7:07 pm: | |
Jim, a good post advising to make haste to deal with a changing market driven profession.
Along with that, do you have any thoughts and research to the new immigration thought to allow under grad, and grad degreeded immigrants to immigrate to the USA to fill jobs that are not filled by USA citizens because of the lack of degrees in the needed fields. 60,000 immigrants per year at 60,000.00 year incomes and up were referred to.
I am guessing that many of these degreed immigrants will be from countries with government paid degees, and some even who received their degrees from the USA gratuity system.
Do not misunderstand. The people studied hard and and in that respect earned their degrees and the potential job opportunities.
It is the potential for USA citizens who are of poor families, older citizens without income to go back to college for a 2nd profession, and males/females/all races/all ages that there should be some concern for.
I have only heard of the University of Georgia at Athens which may offer a free college degree program for 65+ year olds who live there. With another 20 expected years to my life, I would consider moving to such a place.
But that still leaves the poor at a major disadvantage in our 'educationally classed' society, USA.
Economic opportunity for college education is limited in our country, regardless of the hype of our education system.
For myself and others of the approching the 70's in a few years, I prefer not to be a burden on the younger generations. But,I must admit, I will find it physically a little more difficult to flip burgers 10 to 12 hours a day, and then go back to college.
If not for myself, I would like to see an educational plan improved enough to fill some of those 60,000.00 a year jobs with both younger and older ciizens of the USA.
PS: roy, please delete my duplicate post earlier. the old fingers poked the submit button twice while trying to escape. apologies to the phantom also. do not wish to be overly redundant. |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 6:18 pm: | |
Jim,
Perhaps we need to have your topic moved to a different heading, but here goes anyway. My view of the our biggest threat is the approved contractor programs that the 'suits' will be trying to jam down the Insureds throat. I strongly maintain that this practice is an abrogation of the single most important function of the insurance business. Plainly put, it is having the fox guard the henhouse. As you well know, every time this concept rears its ugly head, the contractor/body shop has a field day for a while until someone finally analyses the numbers and discovers, SURPRISE!, claim payments are out of sight! And the cycle starts all over again.
Boys and Girls, the time is now to lobby and/or legislate out of existence this practice. I leave it to your collective imaginations to concoct good and worthy reasons,(shouldn't take more than 2 minutes). If the carriers wish to trim expenses, let them start where the biggest waste is, and that's with upper managements salaries and perks. It's been said before, I'll say it again- "If we don't hang together, we'll hang separately!" - Ben Franklyn |
jshaf
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 5:31 pm: | |
Brush Country's main office is located in ALICE, TEXAS. ALICE is a small town located aprox 45 miles west of Corpus Christi, Texas. BC also has offices in McAllen, Harlingen, Corpus...etc. Hope this helps |
older than dirt
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 5:11 pm: | |
I have heard of and seen references to "Brush County Claims". Who are they and how does an adjuster track these mystery vendors down. anyone know |
Jim Flynt
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 4:43 pm: | |
Well let me get in here and stir the pot up just a little bit more.
A recent study by Booz-Allen & Hamilton (reknown national management and technology consultants) which was done for the insurance industry, suggests that the insurance industry is not realizing it's "Cyberpotential" (as they call it).
Booz-Allen further suggests that the Internet will help insurers "lower costs, serve customers better, and gain the edge over competitors."
They go on to say: "the Internet could cut costs across the insurance value chain (THE food chain if you will) by more than 60%, with the most dramatic savings in distribution and customer service (read: claims). These cost savings, combined with convenient and customized service, will encourage consumers to buy policies electronically. Companies that offer online policies will undercut traditionally priced products and threaten insurers' profitability."
Now if the price of insurance premiums goes down by up to 60% OR MORE, what do you think is going to happen to claim service billing? Is our income stream going to go down by up to 60% as well? What innovations in our thinking and the way we operate can we make to sustain our same level of income?
We all are aware that prices for many if not most commodity items have been reduced by competition, mass purchasing, informed consumerism, and the power of the Internet. Insurance is fast becoming one of those commodity items. Talk to any agent out there, and ask them how much the Internet has or will change their lifestyle and income.
I suggest that insurors are going to look for continual ways to reduce costs to allow competitive pricing of their product in order to survive. We may not like it, but there will always be young college graduates who would be trainable, with high learning curves and more than willing to start work for a lot less than many of us start for, even as Newbees.
Insurors are going to respond to rising claim costs with preferred contractor programs, large centers for increased telephone adjusting, increased authority for agents to handle larger claims, and some innovative methods of claim settlement by way of the Internet.
I will explore this whole idea in a near future "House Calls" column, but I could not resist asking all of you to think more deeply about the impacts of technology and the Internet which are just around the corner. Impacts which will affect the way we do business and handle claims. Impacts that will affect our incomes and livelihoods.
Again, we may not like the changes coming down the pike, BUT we better understand them and we better figure out how we are going to adapt. To do less is to bury one's head, and future, in the sand.
As John Wooden, the former UCLA basketball coach used to say: "Things turn out for the best for those who make the best of the way things turn out." |
Bill Burnett
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 3:40 pm: | |
Mr. Phantom, I was fortunate or unfortunate,to have missed serving in our Armed Forces. Probably one of the reasons I have lived past 50. Many from conflicts/war have not.
Secondly, I have no family wealth or corporate golden parachutes. Working because I am not elgible for social security, need the money, prefer not to be on welfare, and as long as able, like to work.
Do not want or am I looking for sympathy or a free lunch.
Every endeavor, profession, market is subject to supply and demand. I have been on the short and the long end of the stick, but that is life.
Good luck, I respectfully wish you success in protecting your turf/market. Would not expect any less.
---------
Your comments have some validity for where it may apply.
Independent wealth/incomes, whether earned/deserved/undeserved, does indeed allow an individual a greater opportunity to say what they please. Such is not my case. Just a feeling for fairness to all concerned. I further do not propose to be always right, in spite of possibly being a little older than you or others posting to this page.
-----
I do fully respect your efforts to market yourself and other professionals whether 2 years or lifelong, in their chosen (or accidental profession).
Sometimes referred to as protecting your turf.
I like my new career after years of inside corporate work. I like climbing ruuffs, laboring on the computer all hours. Expect to be on the road again soon, and will have little if any time to write/pontificate these posts.
With hard work, and the help of others sharing their knowledge, it does not always take 10-20 years to learn as much in an area of work as another who has worked in the work area 20 years.
My past experiences make it a little easier to make career changes in my later career life.
Thanks for listening, and your comments.
Adios! |
Bill Burnett
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 3:37 pm: | |
Mr. Phantom, I was fortunate or unfortunate,to have missed serving in our Armed Forces. Probably one of the reasons I have lived past 50. Many from conflicts/war have not.
Secondly, I have no family wealth or corporate golden parachutes. Working because I am not elgible for social security, need the money, prefer not to be on welfare, and as long as able, like to work.
Do not want or am I looking for sympathy or a free lunch.
Every endeavor, profession, market is subject to supply and demand. I have been on the short and the long end of the stick, but that is life.
Good luck, I respectfully wish you success in protecting your turf/market. Would not expect any less.
---------
Your comments have some validity for where it may apply.
Independent wealth/incomes, whether earned/deserved/undeserved, does indeed allow an individual a greater opportunity to say what they please. Such is not my case. Just a feeling for fairness to all concerned. I further do not propose to be always right, in spite of possibly being a little older than you or others posting to this page.
-----
I do fully respect your efforts to market yourself and other professionals whether 2 years or lifelong, in their chosen (or accidental profession).
Sometimes referred to as protecting your turf.
I like my new career after years of inside corporate work. I like climbing ruuffs, laboring on the computer all hours. Expect to be on the road again soon, and will have little if any time to write/pontificate these posts.
With hard work, and the help of others sharing their knowledge, it does not always take 10-20 years to learn as much in an area of work as another who has worked in the work area 20 years.
My past experiences make it a little easier to make career changes in my later career life.
Thanks for listening, and your comments.
Adios! |
John Durham
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 2:20 pm: | |
Hey,
This place is better than the History Channel! All we need now is a "history quiz." It's just great to have all the old timers impart their knowledge of what is and has been going on in this business for so many years. Keep up the good work fellas, we all enjoy it....... |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 2:12 pm: | |
For those souls in other parts of the country who might not know...a little history lesson. The Texas brush country is an area south of San Antonio about 60 miles. It is so named due to the lack of trees of any signifcance and the prevalence of mesquite and huisache, which are closer to being bushes than trees, hence the term 'brush country'.
Now it came to pass that a small adjusting firm called Brush Country Claim Service from that area had access to a ranch and deer lease and has used it to "MARKET" the honchos at USAA. (Was your beer cold enough? Did you want some more BBQ? Here try my rifle on that Bambi.) And in typical U.S. military, Pentagon type fashion, they were duly impressed with the professionalism, expertise, and adjusting acumen of Brush Country Claim Service.
That in a nutshell is how it came to be. No criticism, mind you, just a little history lesson. Nothing that all the other vendors haven't done, one time or the other. Ain't that right, Wardlaw Claim Service, Pilot Catastrophe, Renfroe & Assocs., and all the rest. |
Paladin
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 2:07 pm: | |
Gotta love "The Phantom". |
THE PHANTOM
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 1:25 pm: | |
TO MR. BURNETT:
APPARENTLY YOU HAVE RETIRED FROM ANOTHER PROFESSION 6 YEARS AGO. US GOVERNMENT WORK PROBABLY. THEREFORE, YOU LIKELY ARE COLLECTING SOME OF OUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS WHETHER YOU GET TO WORK THE ENTIRE STORM OR NOT.
FOR THE PROFESSIONAL STORM TROOPER, HE DOES NOT HAVE THAT LUXURY TO COMMIT AND NOT GET TO WORK AS LONG AS OTHERS FOR OTHER COMPANIES. HE NEEDS TO WORK THE ENTIRE WORK PROGRAM UNTIL OR INCLUDING CLEAN-UP SO HE CAN PAY THOSE TAXES AND HOPE TO HAVE A LITTLE SAVED BACK FOR RETIREMENT SOMEDAY.
ANY LIFE LONG PROFESSIONAL WORTH HIS/HER SALT WILL NOT ACCEPT SUCH AN ASSIGNMENT TO PLAY THEIR GAMES AND POLITICS THAT MIGHT COST HIM MONEY. COMPANIES LIKE USA NEEDS MORE FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE A GOOD LIVING THROUGH ADJUSTING TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. I WISH YOU GOOD LUCK. YES, IT IS ONE'S CHOICE AND
YES, THEY WERE A GOOD COMPANY AND THEY USE TO HAVE A GOOD STORM PROGRAM.
ALL COMPANIES WOULD GIVE THIS TYPE SERVICE IF WE ALL WOULD ACCEPT IT. WHY WOULDN'T THEY?
MY BURGERS ARE BURNING----GOT TO GO FLIP SOME. |
Bill Burnett
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 12:19 pm: | |
USAA IS AN HONORABLE COMPANY. I lived a mile from them for 15 years. Had the profitable pleasure to be a vendor in another business area.
They always kept their word, and never tried to take advantage of my business, even when I made a mistake.
In my newest six year career, adjusting at over 50 years of age, I worked for USAA during Floyd through Brush Country.
Regarding overstaffing for a (potential) disaster), this was fully explained by Phil Mason at the Atlanta orientation meeting.
The process of cutting adjusters was fully explained. Their were no false promises.
It was each individuals choice to accept or reject the deal.
I did not make the 3rd cut in my assigned area.
I accepted that, learned from it, and expect on the next USAA assignment, to exceed my first effort with USAA, and be among the last to be cut.
I would recommend anyone who receives the opportunity to work for USAA AND BRUSHCOUNTRY to accept it, but don't complain about a deal that is clearly stated..
I may not always completely agree with the field supervision, but the real world is that it is my job to do the job correctly according to their direction and the insurance policy.
My apologies for such a long post. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Not trying to brownnose. Just tell it like it is.
And, challenge misapplied information.
An early college professor (Dr. Latham, North Texas State U.)said that there will always be those that will try to label a person with brownnose for trying to do the right thing or improve work performance. Such is life.
PS: Thanks and hello to all the really great adjusters (and USAA folks) on the site with me who helped by example and personal assistance. |
john postava
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 9:42 am: | |
Our adjusting firm had the USAA flood claim account for a number of years during the 90's. We were later let go due their re-organization of their cat division (clients come and clients go....) I always found USAA to be a great company to work for and was proud to handle their "members" claims. Many of their staff people were sometimes difficult to work with but in the end they were always fair. Of the adjusters I know that are currently working for USAA, all tell me they are VERY satisifed with the amount of work that they receive and would work for USAA at any time. USAA handles ALOT of claims. They would not be a company I would say no to if I got a call because they will use a good adjuster over and over again. |
Dick Benson
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 9:15 am: | |
The names have been changed to protect the -------------------------------. Who of us would stand up and be counted as believing that this is a NEW idea? The insurance industry has a duty to there policyholders. The insurance industry is similar to the gambling industry. Both are betting on the fact that the participant will not walk away with more money than they came with, or are entitled to.
The insurance company has a contract to indemnify the policyholder. That is, to make them whole, as closely as possible as prior to the loss. Both parties are bound by the contract, which, we know as the policy.
The insurance industry has two means of improving their bottom line through the claims department. One is to knowingly lower the cost of the claim. In most states price fixing is not highly thought of. Secondly, they can lower their claims expense cost, that is you and me. GUESS WHO can be manipulated the easiest!
For those that think, this is limited to a single insurance carrier, well I have land to sell. If you like your job opportunities then know, what your situation is! That would include what is expected of you and what you will receive in return. I believe that when you make a commitment you keep that commitment. The smart IA’s will investigate then negotiate, if the opportunity is acceptable to them. Remember, “ integrity pay’s YOU don’t have to cheat to win”. If the opportunity is not for you then simply give another the same chance. We are all adult enough to make our own decisions or we shouldn’t be in this business. |
NotoUSAA
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 12:32 am: | |
USAA has a terrible reputation with adjusters that I have spoken to over the years. They call twice as many adjusters as they need and then start cutting the ones that are not part of their "ole boy" network. Of course by the time you find that out, the other companies have a full staff and you have missed the storm. Who need that kind of attitude. Let them be proud of their attitude. I vote with my feet. |
Ben Dare 2
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 11:56 pm: | |
You can't buy an adequate computer for less than $4,000.00?
Computer software is cheaper today than it was 10 years ago, plus you can now lease it instead of buy it. |
eyesstorms
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 11:49 pm: | |
That is exactly what is wrong with many cat adjusters, you take the atttitude of,"throw me the crumbs." When in reality....you should be the highest paid because you have the most expertise in our field if you are full time in this profession. I wonder if oldtimer is one of the guys that works hail claims and does one claim a day and thereby taking advantage of the daily rate, giving all cat adjusters a bad name.
USAA management needs to take a look at the cost of living for a cat adjuster to be living on the road for the majority of the year. Noone wants to look at the cost of a 4000.00 laptop and the very expensive estimating programs,high quality vehicles,daily living expenses doubled because of also having a homestead with its on going expenses. Just today the media says that gas will soon be 2.00 a gallon and USAA wants to pay us less? Who's the fool here? We need to ban together or be sold down the river. |
oldtimer
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 8:07 pm: | |
Prior to Irene USAA increased their pay by $100
per day and the venders were told to turn it over to the adjusters, which most if not all of them did. I understand that this rate is still in effect this year. Would I work for USAA yup. |
Paladin
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 6:56 pm: | |
Today I heard just the opposite that the rate went up. I guess that if there was a cut it would how bad it is would depend on what the current rate is. As it is rates area all over the board. |
Ghostbuster
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 5:05 pm: | |
Not surprised... During an orientation in Las Vegas about 5 years ago, I overheard my ex-supervisor from the old American General days, (now a mucky-muck at USAA) remark that they were proud of the fact that during Hurricane Andrew, they paid less to the Independents than the all the other major carriers. That turned me off of USAA and have slept better ever since. |
Eyesstorms
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 3:31 pm: | |
Heard a very troublesome rumor yesterday. Seems that USAA is trying to balance their budget on the backs of the independent adjuster. Word is that they will try to cut rates 75.00 a day. Looks like we need to unite? We have to stay strong, which I dont know if everyone will or not? I know I wont stand for reduced pay. There is work elsewhere. |
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