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Jim Flynt
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 7:35 am:   

The Marine Insurance Mega-Site is another excellent site for those seeking internet resources for marine insurance and affilaited topics.

This site is located at:
Jim Flynt
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2000 - 11:02 am:   

Adjusters seeking more information about marine surveys should review the website for the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors at This site has information concerning membership as an Accredited Marine Surveyor, Surveyor Associate or Affiliate member. They also have an excellent FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Page which describes the various types of marine surveys as well as the survey process.

Adjusters interested in learning more about ocean marine ("wet") insurance should check out the AMIM (Associate in Marine Insurance Management) program and designation at the website They have courses and textbooks available for marine insurance and admiralty education.
William S Cook
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2000 - 10:06 pm:   

Boats that have been designed for one purpose and area of operation are often modified to accomadate the change in the use and application. If a shrimp boat was modified to be a long line boat then the boat was later sold to someone that was doing neither operation the boat could very possibly be approved for the former two operation and be unsuitable for the now third operation. The survey should include the acceptability for the task it is now called on to do. Drawings and certification take a back seat to the intended use and seaworthiness for the area of operation.
You should check prior ownership and registration to verify surveys done for change of ownership, design, or insurability. That will give a history of modifications and values. The insurers should have requested a condition and valuation survey at time of insurance as well as its intended use and exposure. Their niggardly false economy and neglect compounded their problem long befor you became involved.
W. S. Cook
Marine Surveyor
Gale Hawkins
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2000 - 9:41 pm:   

Carlos welcome to the CADO web site.

As you can see Dave and others are working to develop CADO into an international web site for insurance adjusting issues. You post are welcome. It is a new subject for most but it illustrates how complex the work of any adjuster can be especially when others did not do their jobs well before you were handed the case as that of the fishing vessel.

My company is one of three companies that develop adjusting software which are members of CADO. As you may have read on the Forums here on CADO we all have plans to develop versions of our property adjusting software for the metric system countries as well as for the Spanish speaking countries. In fact the Spanish speaking population in the United States is the fastest growing segment, which we developers need to address as well.

Some adjusting software developers are ahead of our software called PowerClaim in this area because it will be 2 years before we will be able to have a Spanish version ready. But for any adjuster outside of the North American market we will provide our English version at no cost for 2 years since it would be of little value with the reports in English. Because of PowerClaim’s ability to handle measurements in decimal form you could enter metric dimensions but of course the reports will read out in feet.

Carlos if you also do property adjusting as with homes and businesses or know others outside of our North American English speaking market please contact me at and I will work to ship you and others copies of PowerClaim. Perhaps you may want to try and download a version from our web site, which is Again PowerClaim will be free to you and other adjusters outside of our current marketing areas for years 2000 and 2001. We will also provide free support by e-mail as well if PowerClaim could be of any value to you in its current English version. There will be no shipping charges as well but our toll-free phone number does not work outside of the US and Canada.

As many adjusters as would like can load from the same CD-ROM so it is easy to share with others. As you will see on our web site you need at least a Pentium class computer running at 100 MHz or > with 32 MB or > of Ram memory and 30 MB of hard drive space. Sorry we at Hawkins Research will not have a Spanish version more quickly.

Carlos please post more about the adjusting industry in your country. Thank you for visiting the CADO web site.
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 10:56 pm:   

Would it not come down to an underwriting issue? Once the risk is accepted and there is adequate opportunity to inspect can you then void the policy for reasons other than deception, fraud or misrepresentaion?
Popeye the sailing adjusterman
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 9:02 pm:   

It appears you may be stuck like a Tuna on this issue. If the compania de seguranza is too cheap to buy an adequate inspection survey, then after the fact, all you can do is work with what you've got in terms of pre-loss information and the terms of the policy in force.
Take heart in that you are not alone. The insurance companies in this part of the globe have a bad case of Cheapitis too!
R.D. Hood
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 8:54 pm:   

Challanged, you say?

This adjuster posted an inquiry to an egroup in which I participate.

As a courtesy, he was invited to check CADO and post his question. Now that he has done so, for which I personally wish to thank him, it is in everyone's best interests to offer any input that may be of assistance to Carlos.

The world is shrinking as fast as we breathe, be aware, participate, enjoy.
Posted on Monday, February 14, 2000 - 8:40 pm:   

After a total loss of a fishing vessel, the shipowner told to his insurers that he has not any kind of drawings of his vessel, since several years ago.

I would like to know if the vessel there was unseaworthiness.

Forgive me for my short presentation. Now I will be more explicit.

1- The fishing vessel was built on 1964. As you can understand probably there is only little left from the original vessel; along the years plating and abraded structure were renovated.
2- As many other purse seine fishing vessels, most vessels were built in the 60’s. After the years, mainly by the end of the 80’s and the beginning of the 90’s, schools of fish moved away from the bountiful Peruvian coasts that is why many ship owners modified their vessels making their holds larger. Maybe some drawings were made for this changes, but they were not kept, not even reported to the maritime authorities – as Peruvian laws dictate it -. Even worse, some ship owners later sold their old vessels without giving any drawings to the new owners.
3.- From experience, by knowing the year it was built and the builder, one can tell at sight if the vessel had been or not modified. I know cases when the vessel’s hold was modified in length and others when even a second bridge was added at a higher level, but there were not any drawing of the modifications much less a new stability certificate issued.
4.- As I said, many times modifications consisted in making the hold longer, also extending the vessel’s length. Many times I have seen vessels returning from fishing tasks with a load line 20 to 30 cm below water surface.
There are also mechanical modifications, such as engine recondition and increase fuel tanks volume to be able to go further away from shore for fishing tasks.

5.- The latter is the case of most of the Peruvian purse seine fishing vessel that need it in order to catch anchovy.
6.- Insurers have been insuring vessels in these conditions, even applying the Institute Fishing Vessel Clauses -London market. But acting in good faith insurers do not carry out the appropriate risk assessment before insuring the vessels.
7.- 99 % of these types of vessels do not have any classification from the 70’s.
8.- Usually vessels sink while performing fishing tasks, with not much or a lot of catch in their holds, but with a lot of fish in the net, which is still in the water. This makes the vessel heel to the side where the purse is full with fish. At that time it is suppose that, due to skipper’s negligence, too much fish was caught making the vessel heel and sink. In my opinion it can be acceptable, but fishing is like that in Peru for almost 50 years now; last year 23 vessel from different owners sunk, from my point of view, without any satisfactory explanation. The cheapest vessel sells for about US$ 600,000.00.
9.- Many vessels have sunk killing part if not all crewmembers.
10. It used to be that surveyors, appointed by insurers to carry out condition or damage surveys, did not use to request drawings of the vessels to assess their operation. I have started to request drawings from ship owners and almost none of them ever have them.

11. Insurance policies require a condition survey when they get into effect. However, these condition surveys can be labeled as poor due to the fees that insurers pay to surveyors, which are too low, consequently surveyors do not put in enough time to carry out a thorough condition survey.

12. Ship owners always are in good financial situation, except in El Niño phenomenon periods, last one was in 1998; the following years are good regarding fishing volume.

From my point of view it is inconceivable that a ship owner could buy a vessel not knowing if it has or not any drawings or if, in its current condition, it has an adequate stability.

In my opinion, lack of drawings hampers the ship owner from proving the insurer if the vessel is or not seaworthy. For example, drawings can show that a vessel did not have an upper bridge, but in the photographs –taken during the condition survey- it can be seen that in reality there was an upper bridge. Also, afterwards it can be found out that the vessel did not have a stability certification, given after the modification.

Then, for this description, lack of drawings is reason enough to claim that the vessel was unseaworthy?

Thanks and regards,

Carlos Peralta

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