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Tomj (Tomj)
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 9:51 pm:   

WE provide a service, nothing more or less.
To read anything more into it is ludicrist
Steve Ebner
Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2000 - 10:26 am:   


You're might just make it after all (whatever that means). You do not appear to be over your head at all. Sorry I missed your invite. My current assignments has been one of the busiest I have had in the past two years, so I have had precious little time to visit CADO since July. I'm taking my first day off in ten weeks. So what do I do? Check out the website of our profession, of course. We workaholics must work, I guess. Since many of my lifelong friends are part of the christian community that nurtured me and helped grow me into who I am today, I often hear the question, "Do you pray for a storm?" My stock answer is, "No, but I pray to be part of the answer when the storm comes." Why storms happen, whether they are the will of God, the judgement of God, the passion of God; I stopped trying to figure it out. A cop out, yes. But a cop out because I admit to not being able to figure out the answer, so I just hold the facts in tension without trying to piece it all together. But of being part of the solution -- that I can speak to. Don told us something of his motivation when he told us his primary "function in life is to bring glory to my God......". That, according to Thomas Acquinas, was what differentiated the bonum from the summum bonum (shameless plug for reading my article elsewhere on this site). Although I am less likely to tell you so these days, my motivations are similar. And what makes us part of the solution is when we mix together the right motivation, the right skills, and the right training and apply it all with a passion and zeal that says "We love what we do, and would rather be here doing it than anywhere else." Of course, though, when the assignment is done-----I'M GOIN' TA DISNEYLAND!
Old Dog
Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 1:07 pm:   

Doctors have 10+ years and 100's of thousands of $ invested in treating sick people,,,,,Do they hope no one gets sick?????? Lawyers,,,,Do they hope no one has the misfortune to need legal service???? Clergy,,,,Do they pray no one needs their services????? Or do they all just pray "Thy will be done", just like cat adjusters do. Or maybe O-Be-One thinks ANDREW wasn't His will,,,, Man this is getting deeeeeep,,,we need a storm !
Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 12:45 am:   

Oh-Be-One. At least the "some of you" use their real names to post. Don't hide behind your un-Christianlike pretensions with your name calling.
Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 10:59 pm:   

May the "FARCE" be with you!
And some of you i do mean "Farce"
Tom (Tom)
Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2000 - 10:17 pm:   

This profession, at best, is a very demanding and complex occupation. I hope we, as professionals, do not start relying on religion to settle our claims. Can we please speak of insurance related problems on this web page and leave religion to those who attend church on church day. Religion is a personal matter and should be kept personal.
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 8:28 pm:   

after reading o-be-one's original post, i wish you had not dignified it with a response. if a jerk wants to vent his spleen, let him vent into a vacuum. which is exactly where it belongs.
Lyndon (Lyndon)
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 8:47 pm:   

The comments have jumped all over the place, but a few issues have biblical answers. Don gave great biblical direction in his thoughts, and that is the best source of answers that we can find. . .the Word of God.
Why do bad things happen to good people? They don't, they happen to ALL people. If you could simply profess Christianity to live a guilded, protected life, then the majority of mankind would do so, even though Christ is not in their hearts. The bible says that the rain will fall on the just, and the unjust alike.

How do we pray? Again, Don answered that very well. . .Pray to do the will of the Father! What if we pray wrong? The Bible says that our prayers are not answered because we ask amiss! Personally, I like to pray for those in the path of disaster. One day it may happen to us, or our loved ones! Or it may be my fellow adjuster on a steep, high roof! We all need to be praying for each other!
Our needs! God's word says that if he takes care of the needs of the little sparrow, how much more will he take care of us, His people! He knows our needs before we do! Still, we should lift our needs to Him. He WILL provide! Maybe by disaster, maybe by employment, maybe by providence. . .who knows?. . .but our provision WILL come through HIM!
The big car payments, house payments, kid's orthodontist are not guaranteed. Unfortunately, some of us live beyond our means. That's OK because God will work in that situation to teach us His ways. He has a wonderful way of getting our attention! I have been there! This business is often feast or famine! The longer you are in it, the more you will adjust your finances accordingly.
As I stated in a previous posting, we do not cause the disaster to happen. We do cause the recovery to be possible by bringing the cash to the people to put their lives back together. That is very rewarding by itself. At the same time, we can minister through God to those in pain around us.
May God Bless You, and Your Families!! That will be My prayer!
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 12:37 am:   

Jim, this is an issue that all caring individuals in this business face. There is no conflict when we are helping people get their rightful settlement as quickly as possible from their insurance carrier in Godís mind as I see it.

There is so much (basically everything) that we do not understand on this side of death. As a Christian I believe one day I will have a perfect mind and body and both will be pain free. Until that day comes I just have to do my best at listening to the Inner Voice that guides His own. As Don has pointed out a Christian does have written examples of how to pray as well.

Although I know we get a rush when a TS is named, I want to believe few players in this industry want to gain so bad that they would wish something bad upon another. Acts of nature have always been troublesome, even for the pagans. Hurricanes serve some important role in nature I am sure or they would not happen.

It was just last year I remember Governor George Bush said they were wishing for a hurricane in the Gulf to bring rain to Texas. Is he a sick and evil person? Rain is the end result of a hurricane that makes landfall. What would be the $$$ value of a good week or two of rain starting in the Deep South and working its way up into the Plains ASAP?

Back to the prayer question, I do not think God acts on prayers that are in conflict with his Will. I do believe God can and does answer prayers that require suspending the laws of Physics because of accounts recorded in the Bible as well as events I have witnessed. This also can and does happen in health and wealth issues I believe.

The danger I see in a discussion of this nature on CADO is that some may have never experienced what others have so they misunderstand or are turned off by even the subject of prayer? But this in no why negates the power of prayer. It is my prayer that any that may be confused or upset by this discussion will try to learn more about what others have experience in a personal way. There actually have been several more or less scientific clinical trials of prayer in different medical settings proving positive results in recent years.

Since this discussion is personal for me as well as for others I will leave my email address if any would like to personally question anything in my post instead of posting publicly. Misleading another is a most dangerous thing that I would like to avoid but burying ones head in the sand and ignoring to share that which is most precious in ones life is not a good thing either. Actually in the past conversations such as these were commonplace at the country store or town square on a rainy afternoon. Discussing complex subjects is the first step towards understanding and then learning in my understanding. I do feel there is NO man with the full understanding or the final words on this subject you have raised Jim.
Paul Bagnato
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 8:30 pm:   

I once overheard one person tell another that,
" the people that matter don't mind, and the people that mind don't matter."

This being said, I have recently moved and our neighbors, (not many of them) have inquired in to how I make a living. They first thought that I do a storm dance every night. I don't. They relieze that I am a person that is prepared to deploy to a catastophe and handle people, (this is a part that God comes into play). I have tried to explain to them that Yes I do make a living off the needs of others, yet the situation that brought me there,such as an earthquake is out of my control, ( again another part of my life that God plays a really big part).

I can really care less when or where the next storm hits, although I do hope it is soon, I am prepared with the help of my "Higher Power" to handle the people and the losses together.

And Yes, I have a big truck payment too.
Don Elkinton
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 8:16 pm:   


Thank you for the invite. By the way I regret that we missed the opportunity to have supper together while you were here in Chicago. Perhaps another time, my friend?

As a man of faith, I have often been asked, "How do you pray?" Meaning of course the occupation we are in. At first this seems humorous, then serious.

I believe that many times our profession is an idol to us! Therefore let us be reminded that the LORD will have no other gods before Him.

I believe the topic here is prayer and its relationship to the cause and effect of God's hand in the lives of men and women. It could get deep, so I will try to be clear.

I am a catastrophe adjuster who is a Christian. My primary function in life is to bring glory to my God, lead and provide for my family and assist those I have been assigned. In addition, I have the privilege of being an instrument of the Father, revealing His love, through His son, to a world who is ambivalent, at best.

How then, how should we pray? Who is to pray? Why pray?

Why pray? After Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead and ascended to the right hand of the Father, He continued His ministry, interceding (praying). What greater ministry, than to be in agreement with Jesus?

Who is to pray? ALL His children. Those who have become joint heirs with the Son.

How then? I am convinced that we are to pray with the mind of the Father. What does that mean? In my limited experience, it means that we pray with the understanding of the character of God, which is revealed in His word. By having fellowship with the brethren. For example: Is it in the character of God to pray that people would be saved? Yes and amen! No question about it. Would it be within the character of God for us to pray for permission to partake in murder? Absolutely not! Then as we spend more time understanding His character, developing our character in His image. We can begin to pray with His mind.

Enough theology. Back to the original thought. How then should we pray concerning disasters? I guess that depends on your thought concerning the birth of such events. Are they created by the Creator? Are they reproduced by the counterfeit? Or are they simply events that occur due to natural events?

In praying for disasters, what is our motivation? Some would say greed, others necessity. The questions arise. "Who is really in charge of your business?" "Are you a faithful steward of the provisions of the past?" "Do we live a life or simplicity, or excess?" "Do we justify our purchases?" "Are we a braggart?" "Do we mirror the image of the Servant?" Finally, "Am I a Kingdom Builder?"

For me and the adjusters I partner with, these are the questions we hold each other to.

The question is difficult to button down. I have asked the questions to make you ponder. I am convinced in my faith. I am not here to criticize or condemn. I lift up the name of the One I have entrusted my life to.

I know that He cares for all of us; and our needs. I know that He cares for those that are devastated by natural events.

I pray for His mercy and His strength.

Grace & Peace

Don Elkinton
Lee Mushaney (Red)
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 3:54 pm:   


First let me say, God does care if I make
my payment on a Merc. Exped. He says he will meet all my needs he doesn't say he will give me all my wants. You either believe the WHOLE bible is true or none of it is true. That being said the
Bible tells us not to call anyone a fool so perhaps you need to refresh your acquaintance before critizing us. When we ask for something he always answers. It May be yes, it may be no or it may be not now. But there is a HUGE difference between Asking Believing for something and just mouthing for something.
As mentioned below our conversations are not of the nature that should inflame anyone we deal with the stress best we can. You show me a adjuster with a lot of bottled up stress and I'll show you a drunk.
We go out when the cat. occurs and believe it or not our light shines as we each have our own ministry in this life and we do Gods work in different ways.
So my advise to you is lighten up.
Steve Satchell
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 12:13 pm:   

Jim as always, you handled that question at hand with great skill. As for catastrophies they are the birth pangs which where fortold by my Lord. Regarding prayers, my wife & I pray for the opportunity to use the skills that I have developed. I find when on deployment it's a time that what I do is a witness to those in need. Also how we handle any situation with the insurds, vendors & carriers, can also be a blessing for us & them.
Rj (Rj)
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 12:37 pm:   

Jim; I did not realize you created a new thread on this topic so I am re-posting here. By the way your response to O-be-one was excellent.


First of all no one in their right mind believes that a hurricane will form as a direct result of prayer to god. So enough already with your assumption that anyone is praying to god for a hurricane to hit anywhere and/or cause harm anyone.

Everyone who eats, breathes, pays bills and basically lives will have to do something for a living in order to survive. That something is your occupation. Most if not all occupations generate a work environment condition know as stress. How each individual deals with work related stress will depend on each person's ability to deal with the pressures of their chosen occupation. In those occupations where you are dealing with other individuals problems on a daily basis it is very important that you find ways to deal with your stress. If you keep it all bottled up inside, you will not last very long in this profession. That is why it is important that everyone involved in this business find a way in which they can deal with stress. A few ways to deal with the stress is through the use of humor and general conversation.

Most individuals that are involved in this site are Independent Adjusters of which most are on the road most of the time helping people recover after a natural disaster occurs. We are constantly dealing with other individuals problems and losses. It has been stated that our profession is probable the highest stress related occupation in existence. Those that choose to take this path know that this is probably true and unless you do what we do it would be difficult if not impossible for you to understand.

Your interpretation that we are praying for a hurricane, or anything else to happen, is only adding to our stress. You are attempting to stop us from communicating with each other by criticizing our humor & friendly conversation by twisting it around and accusing us of immoral behavior.

O-be-one have you ever went to a sporting event? While you were there did you have a favorite team that you wanted to win? Have you ever placed a bet (no wager just a bet with anyone else) on which team you thought would win? If so, then by the same way you are accusing us of praying to god for a hurricane to hit you would have been praying to god for one team to win over the other. This sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Of course I realize that a natural disaster event is not comparatively the same as a sporting event, however, the underlying principle of how we deal with stress generated in both situations is the same.

In closing O-be-one lighten up and please remember that none of us wish to offend anyone. We are just dealing with our stress in a very harmless way. If we did not like and care about people we probably would not be in the business of helping people in the first place.
older then dirt
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 10:46 am:   

We must always have a sense of ambiguity over what we do, does the Doctor in the emergency room (when he's had no patients for a week) pray for a bus accident?). Like us he know the next accident will happen and he will respond to it. We know nature (God's creation) will bring another disaster and we will respond. When it happens and IF we do our job right, then we help people get on with their lives. This conflict of emotions is our cross, and we have to learn to live with it. And if anyone thinks our humor is bad, go behind the scenes at a hospital or any similar high stress place and listen to the comments, it's one of the ways we deal with the stress.
Jim Flynt (Jim)
Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 7:04 am:   

A post this morning on another thread by "O-Be-One", suggested that we should not be praying for hurricanes and disasters and that God does not care about our car payments, etc.

I am opening this new thread to allow interested parties to discuss this particular topic as they may feel the need.

While I invite all of our readers to contribute, I would especially like to hear from our resident theologians Don Elkington, Steve Sharpe and Steve Ebner to share their insight on this topic. Please shed the light of your knowledge with us here.

Disasters and catastrophe are a way of life in contemporary society. They have been historically and no doubt with continue in the future.

Personally, I do not believe that God answers the prayers of any one person at the expense of another person. Nor does God answers the prayers of one group of people at the expense of another group. God does not want any of his people to suffer, and some would forget that a large part of our work is involved with easing the suffering of people when they are in their greatest pain. What would be the effect were we not there when disaster strikes? Are we not just as important in what we do as the Red Cross, FEMA, and the other relief agencies who concentrate on helping the downtrodden, damaged and destroyed lives of our fellow humans?

Personally, I also believe that while God does not always give us what we want, thank goodness, he always does provide for all of our needs. He does and will provide for the needs of catastrophe adjusters equally as well as for those who are the victims of catastrophe. That includes feeding our families, providing us shelter and clothing, and yes, even helping to see that our car payments are made to allow transportation to our assignments. Yet, we must also remember that God wants us to help ourselves through the use of our knowledge, talents, skills, and the tools we have available to succeed.

My own answer to the question which I posed to you is no, there is no conflict. By the very nature of what we do, we are especially needed as part of God's grand and glorious plan for mankind.

We do not know why bad things happen to good people. But we do know that God lends a helping hand during those most trying of times by providing skilled doctors and surgeons, relief workers, fire and policemen, ministers, rabbis, and chaplains, and yes, catastrophe adjusters too. Personally, I think God selects the very best of humans to be part of his "clean-up crew."

Finally, I believe that what God cannot accomplish in this world, he will accomplish in the world to come. Perhaps only then, will he share the answers to questions that so seemingly elude us here on Earth in this life.

This topic has been hinted at before, so this thread will allow all of you to more deeply explore the question of God and catastrophe adjusters and how we can co-exist without suffering any guilt or conflict with religion.

Perhaps by exploring this topic together, we can not only become better adjusters, but better human beings as well.

Don, Steve and Steve, please help. I am way in over my head here!

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