Post Number: 315
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:52 pm: |
Please, Jim, those kind of fringe benefits aren't included in any kind of deal, nor is free covered parking for your old rattletrap truck. Unless of course, the assignment is for a long term mold loss at a Nevada 'Bunny Ranch'.
But, you, me, and Russ should be so lucky.
Post Number: 365
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 9:32 pm: |
Well now, Russ Lott and I would be willing to work for $250.00 a day if they include all the beer we can drink and pay for the "Ladies".
|Gil C. Newton
Post Number: 10
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 2:58 pm: |
Yes GB we take pride in our certificates and
all the glitter of gold on them diplomas but
after I get home with mine, I wonder what I
learned.Thats when I study the hardest, because
I feel so inadequate, and looking at those pieces of paper reminds me of what I dont know. I think
there is a "Bubba Newton" theory for this.I drive
a pickup too.
Post Number: 314
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 1:55 pm: |
Gil, I admire and respect your ambition, inner drive, and positive character. Those are qualities we in this business all share. I'm also glad your morale has yet to be pounded by the current business climate wherein we are seeking ways to cope and adapt with the changes. We, too, have all those fancy diplomas, licences, and certificates...and many of us are desparate for work having not been on the road in over a year.
As small business operators, our ability to change with the changes in the marketplace is a powerful strength. Our numero uno goal is to try and see over the figuerative hill and place ourselves in the right place at the right time with the right tools and skills to reap the rewards of work and PROPER compensation. And, let's get this straight, $25.00/hr in your own back yard or $40.00/hr out on the road is NOT proper compensation. I, personally, may have to do it, but it sure won't buy my loyalty or keep me from dumping them at the first oppurtunity.
It all comes down to the 1st Commandment of Capitalism, "Money Talks, and All the Rest Walks". This is a lesson the applies in both directions!
|Gil C. Newton
Post Number: 9
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:54 am: |
This is where the rubber meets the road. A new adjuster is going to get the training where
he or she can, and if it means working dirt cheap
so be it.Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything you are saying. However the facts
are, most of the new adjusters are needing the
work and will take anything. I am one of the lucky ones and will not depend on this initially.
So my options are open, and educating myself with
enough certifications and background some one will take a chance. I have invested a lot in training and equipment so theres no turning back,
for me, that would be a failure and I do not intend to fail. Also I will not work for peanuts, I look on this as an investment and I expect a return, not an Enron return either. Thats not greed , that is economics one oh something.
As a builder I contracted the job ,turnkey and
as a pest control operator I specified a certain ammount for services rendered for a price. Of course this may be different, in that you dont set the prices, its an mutual understanding between the carrier,vendor and adjuster. All
three are going to cut the best deal they can.
All of you make a good point,yet I see problems,
not of your making but how you deal with it just
might make a difference in the way new trainees
take on these day jobs. I do not have the answer
to this, as it was pointed out to me, seasoned adjusters have a hectic schedule, and do not have the time to tutor a noob. I understand this and resolved not to ask anyone for help. I will only ask that you do not take this as a put down. I
have not the chance of meeting as many of you as I would like, but maybe someday we will cross paths. I find these threads very informative and enjoy the humor..Oh yeah, I am getting to understand xactimate, lots of practice. I had the course but it takes lots of practice to be a certified basket case. Got to get flood and fwua certified now.
Post Number: 313
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 9:33 am: |
This is how worthless the carriers think we are. Here in San Antonio, Trinity wants inside property adjusters on a temp basis $23 to $25 per hour. The inside property temps ad in Phoenix that was posted here for Farmers paid $25/hr. The current postings by NCA are for AM Fam in Minnesota pay $40/hr.
To be crass, the old economic adage of supply and demand seems to be in full force here. There is too little supply, (work), and too much demand, (workers).
Now...if...there was a reduced demand, (i.e. fewer workers), with the current supply of the marketplace, then the price for our services would rise. Historically, this has happened frequently, for example the Black Plague in Europe that exterminated millions caused a corresponding rise in the cost of labor because there were so fewer workers. Other examples include the various wars where the labor market is drained due to military needs. Even changes in technology cause a shortage in trained workers as in the computer era.
In our case, tho, it's more like the psychological game of 'Lifeboat', wherein the overloaded lifeboat has more people than provisions and some folks have to go over the side into the shark infested waters. (Yes, I know, it's a horribly cruel, politically incorrect concept I'm bringing up.)
Be it overpopulation of our profession, technological innovations that make our function redundant, or changes in carrier procedures, as long as there are more of us than the marketplace can sustain, our value will continue to diminish. (And, has the police officer snarls when he hands you the ticket, Have a Nice Day!.)
|John A. Postava
Post Number: 37
|Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:50 am: |
I find it amazing that some carriers and cat co's are revisting daily rates for adjusters. After the Pilot class action fiasco arising from Northridge you would think employers know that good field adjusters don't (and usually can't) work 40 hours a week while on storm. Day rates may work if you are sitting behind a desk and under tight control by your employer, but if you're in the field and only work 40 hours a week you're not getting much done and probably have a boatload of unhappy insureds.
In my opinion a good field adjuster should be paide a minimum of $60-75 per hour for an 8-hour day, time and a half if insureds or employers want after "5" meetings and double time on weekends. Can I sell that to a carrier and will they ever pay it? No way, Jose (unless we get two category five blows a week apart with one in Miami and the other in Galveston)!
Post Number: 37
|Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:19 am: |
No trained professional multiline adjuster should be working for a day rate less than $700. Are we less knowledge than a lawyer or a plumber or a HVAC techican. How about the kid that mows my grass. He mows two small yards and hour for $20 each. What about profit, not getting paid by the hour but being paid as a independent contractor.
Listen to Dancatman, he knows what he is talking about.
Post Number: 73
|Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:24 am: |
I have re-generated this one comment thread started by Bill back in February 2002, as the most suitable spot to discuss a comment I saw in the Bulletin section a few days ago.
Sheila Conner on 7/19 posted a bulletin asking for submissions regarding a day rate desk opening at $330. a day for a 5 day 40 hour week; no mention was made of any additional living expense allowance.
Please review Bill's thoughts in context with Sheila's bulletin. Bill wanted us to ponder the profitability of a $585.00 day rate for a field work assignment. The bulletin desk job I would reasonably conclude does not require the adjuster to provide or need for satisfactory performance - a rental car, rental cell phone, rental office and computer equipment.
Unfortunately, I have "been there done that" a few years ago relative to flying to a loss site and renting - a car, cell phone, office and computer equipment. I keep trying to assure myself since then that I will never again allow myself to have to do that again. But, when you convert Bill's suggested day costs to weekly for those items I find them quite high from my experiences at that; plus I hope I never have to consider a $525.00 per week cost for some type of reasonable extended stay accomodations.
At the other end of the day rate spectrum, we have Dancatman's bulletin response to Sheila of 7/21. I am concerned about his comment, "sorry guys but an adjuster needs to make $700.00 plus a day in this economy to break even ...."
Just taking that comment at face value, I can not imagine the $701.st dollar of my daily billing efforts being my first dollar of net profit; i.e. the first dollar past Dancatman's suggestion of a break even point.
Dan, I respectfully wonder if you are basing your daily break even point on a certain amount of anticipated days or weeks to be worked in a year?
Anyway, Bill was pondering a $585.00 day rate, Sheila is offering a $330.00 day rate, and Dancatman says we need $700.00 plus a day just to break even.
Based on a 5 day week, this creates a weekly range from $1650.00, to $2925.00, to $3500.00
Looking at a 4 week cycle of these rates it is $6600.00, to $11700.00, to $14000.00
I'm certainly not the most frugal person especially when travelling, but I believe I could generate a reasonable net profit from a months effort with a gross of $11700.00; and do even about 20% better with a $14000.00 monthly gross.
I do recognize the propensity to accept an assignment at any of these day rates is dependent on so many things. Once I am comfortable that the vendor and carrier are solid (learned that the hard way), then I have a personal debate with myself regarding my bank balance, the nature of the work, the reasonable likelyhood of something "different / better" in the form of an assignment coming my way "next month", the time of the year, and finally the location.
I look forward to the views of others regarding the day rate issues summarized here.
|William S. Cook
Post Number: 31
|Posted on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 2:39 pm: |
What are major factors to consider when an adjuster elects to propose a day rate schedule in a metroplitan area 800 miles from home for a thirty day stay working five days per week?
Rental car 40.00
Restaurant Eating 30.00
Cell Phone Rental 8.00
Office Equipment Rental 20.00
Office Supplies 3.00
Computer Equipment Rental 10.00
Estimating Program Fees 10.00
Saturday/Sunday no pay 40.00
Errors and Ommisions 2.00
Eight Hours @ $40.00 320.00
Day Spent Getting There 12.00
Day spent Getting Home 12.00
Air Travel (nextday arrival) 20.00
Consider 20 working days @$585.00 to pay for thirty days of being away from home for this period of time. Is this a fair day rate for a journeyman adjuster. Should we consider tolls, parking, laundry, tips, area maps, preparation, education, training, and just being available to go when needed as a part of a day rate?