|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 4:46 pm: |
The Wardlaw adjusters that I know personally, working for FIG in St. Louis, are being paid on a per claim basis according to the CAT fee schedule. Maybe some of the Wardlaw auto adjusters are on a day rate, but not the property adjusters that I know personally.
|Gale Hawkins (Gale)
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 3:00 pm: |
Kile and Mark, I basically agree with both of you. Doom and gloom is not what I see unless one is expecting tomorrow to be like yesterday. Quality (value) will always win over time I am told but value can be somewhat subjective. The only way price can drop is if someone finds an overall way to lower cost yet offering equal or greater quality. This has been done through the use of better technology over the past 10 years in our country to increase productivity and lower cost at the same time in many industries.
|Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:47 pm: |
Historicaly it is true that you can't keep the standard of living up with a negative birth rate. But as you said, these are changing times. With fewer children (I'm 30 and have none and don't know if I ever will) people have money to spend on other things, sports cars, summer houses, boats. That money will be redirected into other things. There will be a problem getting people into the entry level jobs but hopefully technology will take care of that. It looks like the days of starting in the mail room are gone. With email and anthrax I think the days of mail in paper envelopes are on their last legs. I don't think the future is all that grim. It's the global economy that I think will save us to some extent. We can export our labor intensive, low paying jobs to third world countries with lots of young workers and concentrate on the more tech heavy jobs that require more education and experience here at home. But don't worry. With the way humans are, we won't stop growing too much here at home.
As far as adjusting goes, these things always go in cycles. People pay for quality and get used to that quality and take it for granted, then they think they can pay less and get the same quality. Then they realize they lose a little quality but with the savings it's worth it, then they not only lose quality, the lose customers, but that's OK, you can't please everyone. Then they lose profitability and that's when things have to change. Look at the American auto industry in the seventies and eighties. Cars out of Detroit were coming off the assembly line and going directly to the shop because they didn't run and consumers turned to Japan for a car that they could depend on. Now after a bunch of belt tightening and a change in philosophy, American cars are just about as good as their Japanese counterparts, some even better. The industry will come around. We just need to keep reminding them of the value of quality and keep producing the best product (files and service) we can put out.
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 12:00 pm: |
Gale, there have always been those who will work a storm for peanuts, they are the first to go in a dry year, because when you sell yourself to cheap you have no reserves. We can survive those because there is always a few few firms who prefer to have things done right the first time. It is the virtual firms and the movement of cat vendors into the daily market that will bring the greatest change. We saw Crawford start a new trend by offering benefits so they could lock in adjusters, from what I hear it was a fizzle. Those of us who are compentant and stubborn will survive for now. The but we will have to keep adapting to the changes. Maybe some day we'll walk into a loss take some photos, including infared etc and feed it into our computer which will print and estimate. At that time they will not need a lot of us, hopefully I'll be retired by then.
|Gale Hawkins (Gale)
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 11:37 am: |
Guys we all are living in changing times. Standard of living in a developed country cannot rise when the birth rate is negative. Just look at Europe. If it was not for immigration we would be in serious trouble here in the US today.
We may not want to face the issue but when many many millions of the future generations are stopped before they can make it out of the chute it starts taking a toll on the economy and this has been going on for 1.5 generations in the US. It is more of a mathematical issue than religious before someone wants to get bent out of shape over that fact. Starting in 2009 we are going to have a negative housing need. What is that going to do for construction, add to the ranks of new cat adjusters?
With my kids four, a staff between the ages of 23 and 50 and a great group of investors, I have little option but to try and understand what the future holds and what parameters are impacting the future.
Globalization is impacting the insurance industry but these new virtual adjusting firms popping up every week are changing the landscape for both the adjusters and the adjusting vendors quickly. They are lean and mean for the most part because they know the business and are going high tech from the get go.
The carriers are eating it up. Say a virtual firm has 1000 adjusters in it, how hard is it to entice 50 of the more mobile ones to show up at a CAT site for 4 weeks?
Who knows what will be the end results? I donít know that answer but I am betting it will be different than it is now.
By the way when you see someone selling his or her services for less than yours maybe you should be asking how can they do it instead of just thinking they are stupid or at least according to Jack Welch. He said that in most cases it is because they have lower cost structure. No one can stay in business selling his or her service below his or her cost forever. If you need an example of that in my industry just email me at email@example.com.
Sorry guys we are living in changing times that are not in the expansion mode from where I stand.
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 8:16 am: |
So, let's see now...we got USAA, FIG, Crawford, GAB...
Awww geez, I done lost count. We may need Gale to reconfigure Powerclaim to help keep track of this vote count. The nominees are coming in too fast to keep up with.
We on the nominating committee appreciate your supplying detailed rationale for your choices. You're making your Mama's proud!
|Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 6:44 am: |
Mark, you are right last time worked USAA was paying adj. 525 a day. vendor 720. if you remember a 10% cut was demanded and all vendors supposedly got together and agreed to take a $5.00 cut and give the adjuster a $ 75.00 cut. a great deal for the vendor. reason given to me by my vendor and to a friend (whom told me the truth) by his vendor was usaa told them to pay all adjusters the same. so who got goldmine and who got the shaft. I am told crawford is something like $ 468.00 but things are taken out and all so the bottom line is vague.
As I posted, I am only posting what I am told and I believe or what I know based on my association or being 'paid' by vendor or carrier.
further, I have worked 'direct' for usaa before, ironic,but true. now I have heard the certain adjusters for certain vendors are being paid back to the 600 rate per day, but dont know this, just again heard this.
oh, yeah!!, usaa told vendors that this was temporary and that the cut would come back, but it has been two years, hey, i dont know.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 11:16 pm: |
Justin, I have to agree with GB's assessment of the situation. If you've ever uttered the phrase "We can get it done for that", you are seeing just how cutthroat that attitude is. Now that it is coming home to roost in OUR OWN wallets and work assignments, we may find that a simbiotic realtionship with contractors is to our benefit. The more they muddy the water, the better I like it! There are MORE claims and the claims we have require more skill to settle. I'm for embracing these guys that create claims awareness even if if may ruffle a few feather here. Sides, JF's feathers STAY ruffled. Jim, you should preen more often.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 7:32 pm: |
Ridge your figures are not consistent with my experience with usaa (except maybe crawford.)
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 6:50 pm: |
Oh yeah, Alice, if anything in my post was incorrect, it was because I heard it as posted and the rest is most certainly correct from "my" vast experience with each.
any incorrect post in re: to pay, storms, call-outs, work, or anything that would affect another "cat" adjuster would be done because i was told this and difinately not to mislead.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 6:46 pm: |
Well Alice, I felt I clarified it with names, however, if you know of one who doesn't Post it and see what responses you get.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 12:56 pm: |
I've checked with many of the smaller adjusting firms in the Midwest and it appears the storms were scattered,thus will be handled by inhouse people
|Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 9:18 am: |
You should check your sources when you begin to use words like "ALL" when referring to vendors.
|Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 8:05 pm: |
Ghost keep your shirt on and watch td 15, at least we'll all starve to gether if it follows the last two years.
|Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 7:55 pm: |
Allright, I'm having myself a male menopause moment here, WHERE IS THE FREAKIN WORK????!! DID ST LOUIS PAN OUT? How about Illinois or Indiana or Kentucky or ???? Are the kids at the carriers doing it all?
I should probaly go take a pill and eat something. My patience and bank account are running on fumes again, just like last year.
I love this business, don't you?
|Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:07 pm: |
You are soooooo correct, well this may be gossip, but 2 Farmer Adjusters, 21 & 22, have been here from onset, and they were planned to go home and extended , but then 20 more were brought in and the original ones last day is Wednesday. Working for Wardlaw, or at least that is what "both" told me.
Another, State Farm, pilot adjuster, been here since onset, said he was transferred from 4-10-01 cat, to 10-25-01 cat. said he knew of 12 but had good beliefs to think it is 30. again, was told by 2 pilot adjusters, again max age 24 , 28. ummmm!
But now to the real deal, it is my understanding absent any special deals that "ALL" vendors are being paid $ 800.00 per day. You figure what 60, 65, or even 70% is of that, I believe it is 480.00, 520.00 & 580.00. lets see, crawford & gab, 60, RJMW & Brush, Glock,Pilot,Wardlaw,L&M--65--Eberals and a couple others 70-- that is a lot of money to pull down to pick up phone and say "GHOST" go to downtown San Francisco and work for 480 a day. or 520 or 580. and then send a check to you (maybe in a timely fashion,Maybe not) and then tell you to go home.All the time telling carriers how please we are and planning meeting in god awful out of the way places, and wanting us to have every estimating program out there. AND to top it all off, NO JEANS !!!!!!
My 1 & 1/2 cents worth.
|Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
|Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 1:10 pm: |
Ghost I understand where you are coming from but we all have to remember that 60% of $350 is better than 65% of $225. The vendor does have to make a living also but the amount of money they grab from our sweat and blood should be directly proportionate to the amount of work THEY do on the respective claims. Or as mu pappy used ta say 100% of nothing is still nothing.
|Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 10:22 am: |
It's simply a case of 'Make hay while the sun shines, Nellie'. Or, as in the song, 'Smugglers Blues', "the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal".
One would think that with Crawford at 60%, they would not have anyone working there when the Eberls, Pilots, and Worleys are at 65%. But they do. It just points out that in our gang there is little unanimous consensous. Except for the fact that Krispy Kreme makes a pretty good doughnut.
|D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
|Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 12:45 am: |
Jim, why not all adjusters boycott working for worst vender for 1 month?
|Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 11:26 pm: |
Ghostbuster, with all the comments today from our CADO boys and girls, why don't we officially kick off the 1st CADO Monthly Vendor Hall Of Shame Award with our first award to be awarded for the month of November 2001.
I suggest we keep going thereafter each and every month for as long as this "cheep cheep cheep" nonsense lasts. (Sounds like some kind of chicken ad doesn't it? Maybe we should call it the CADO Old Yeller Chicken Vendor Hall Of Shame Award?)
Looks like we have our first two nominees: Renfroe and Certified Claims. I'll throw my vote in with Tom Toll for the former for the first CADO Vendor Hall of Shame Award
Ghost, with your sweet talkin' way with words as well as wisdom earned thru the ages, perhaps you can think of an appropriate "plaque" we can present along with the shame of having the recipient's name broadcast here for all to see.
Ghost I also nominate you as the official "vote counter" for this contest, and let's start the vote counting with todays recommendations with each post from a CADO reader counting as one vote.
Please see the new thread here on the CADO Forum especially for this ongoing monthly award program for further and future voting.
Instead of blamin' 'em, let's start shamin' 'em.
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:44 pm: |
Ya see now, Guys.
This is how our little clubhouse is supposed to work. Each of us throws in our 2 cents worth for the common good of us all. Even if none of us gets a single file, we grow stonger by knowing that we are not alone.
This is what scares the juicy crap right out of the vendors and carriers. Our shared knowledge is the one true power they cannot control. Even those vendors that are sponsers of CADO are subject to this reality. We have a measure of control over information, and this is better than Grandma's old telephone party lines.
Keep feeding the truth in here, boys and girls. You're doing us all a world of good.
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:07 pm: |
I am not working for AMFAM, Safeco here, I guess NCA or whoever is still doing the AMFAM work, as I said, I dont know, just keep see cat adjusters arounf with the AMFAM logo on truck.
|Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 4:26 pm: |
$25.00/hour only equals $400 a week if you're working 4 hours a day 4 days a week. If you're working a nomal week, 8 hours a day 5 days a week thats $1000 a week and if you're working a cat adjuster week that's 12 hours a day 7 days a week or $2100 a week, not bad but still not enough for cat work.
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 4:16 pm: |
On desk duty the norm low use to be 25.00 an hour = 400.00 per week. Maybe they found some takers out there, maybe there is still hungry adjusters out there. After all of the storms this yr anyone worth a grain of salt has had enough work they should not be willing to sale their soul out that cheaply. If they get someone for those rates the person must not be to good or has very little experience.
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 4:13 pm: |
RidgeWalker, who are you working for in St Louis that is doing AmFam claims ?
|Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 1:55 pm: |
I also was contacted by Certified Claims over 4 times this year. Each time I asked for the schedule for the unknown storm so I could make an informed decision. They never have answered and I can only assume that they were ashamed of the pay schedule and did not want anyone to know before arrival at the storm site. KNOW B 4 U GO !!!!
|Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:59 am: |
Well Ghostbuster, there is probably some 'roof thumper' out there somewhere..............
Note: Roof Thumper = 'One-Peril Adjuster'
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:50 am: |
That's funny. I responded to an ad here on the CADO job board for the OCR in San Deigo. It is thru Certified Claim Service and a Greg Force. The job is a minimum 3 month, preferably 6 months for $300/day in a FIG office. My sources say that FIG pays the vendor $550/day. You can check my math, but I calculate this to be a 54%/46% split.
Mighty thin gruel out here, folks.
|Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:43 am: |
Tom Toll, guess what. If everyone would turn down ridiculously low rates like you did, the daily rates and fee schedules would go up to a reasonable amount.
Shame on some vendors and some carriers for insulting knowledgeable experienced adjusters with what is little more than minimum wages after we extract out the road expenses and capitalization of equipment expenses. And shame on any so called 'adjusters' who would accept such low rates and sell their soul and work product for what is nothing more than a mere pittance!
Thanks Tom for sharing your story, and congratulations for letting Renfroe know you can't be bought on the cheap.
Tom, you just proved that there are still a few adjusters around with principle, integrity, self worth and conscience.
|Tom Toll (Tom)
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 10:29 am: |
Renfroe called and offered $300.00 per day daily rate & 5 day week, for work. I could not accept. Expenses @ 75.00 to 100.00 per day leaves 200.00 per day. Thats is totally ridiculous. That is all I have heard about.
|Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 5:55 am: |
The carrier I am working for in St. Louis has requested 20 additional adjusters,on ground this a.m. for 10 a.m. meeting to give out claims!
St. Louis may not be as big as it looked, (and it looked terrible,I'm here)but with the denials from april, insureds may take another shot at it. but also, The Farm and I heard Farmers were gonna bring some more in Maybe? The ones that are still here from April, a lot were leaving Friday but were asked to stay.
I am sure the American Family will have to bring in some more, but dont know.
|Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 11:55 pm: |
Good Question Ghost, Have only heard of one company setting up a standby list. If my phone isn't ringing it still isn't for me sigh.
|Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 10:17 pm: |
Thannnk-You, Sargeant Kyle! My thoughts exactly! I viewed the NOAA storm reports and saw listings for 20 tornadoes, 100 hail reports, and a whole truck load of wind damage listings. Like the old Burger King commercial from 20 years ago said, 'Where's the work'?
The nice lady at Pilot this afternoon said they had not heard any calls from the carriers. They know about the large hail that hit in St Louis. Do any of you'se guys know if the spring hail also hit the Overland area of St Louis?
Maybe it's still early. Maybe the carriers are up to their usual nasty trick of trying to shut us out as long as possible. C'mon my fellow grapes on the vine, share your facts and rumors.
|Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
|Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 9:13 pm: |
Ok, it's been 2 days now, has anyone's phone rung yet? Does anyone know about any cats being delcared and where?