, Resources for Adjusters from Adjusters
Snake Farm Lawsuits | Archive Index |

The Adjuster's Forum » General Discussion » Snake Farm Lawsuits « Site Map »

Author Message
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 9:24 am:   

I know all about that Alan, that's why Granpa Andy gives all us grand kids a few hundred shares of the blue chips every year. Sure helps make these slow years a little more bearable.
alan jackson (Ajackson)
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 8:04 am:   


Once again Jim is right. With a little pre-planning most if not all estate tax can be avoided. If Farmer brown would go to his CPA, Fin. Planner or local attorney, they could and would set him up. Most people just don't take the time to do it. Some form of trust, gifts etc.. can be great vehicles for protecting whats your's. My dad thought Bill Gates was a great guy when he and his wife set up the Gates Foundation to help kids. However, all the money generated by the foundation is going to be used to offset Bill's future estate tax bill. If the foundation was set up right, the org. amount of money used to set up the foundation will revert back to the estate. If Bill Gates can avoid an estate tax, why can't Farmer Brown.
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 1:52 am:   

By the grace of God, Grass Hopper, he has given you great vision, health and wealth, but evidently you are still blind to what is important. Oh well i guess sometimes we are given these gifts unaware ,just to wake up or stir the soul of another whom sometimes makes a great difference in life.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 1:05 am:   


I read the Galbraith article. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Mr Galbraith should remember that W still got more votes than the exaulted Bill C. ever did. And as for his reference to that spoiler Ralph Nader, need we remind him that were it not for Ross Perot, Bill never would have been in the white house at all. I think if you look back at the history between the Perots and the Bushes you will realize H. Ross only ran because he knew he would siphon votes from his nemesis G.H.W. Bush. I wouldn't be suprised if the GOP learned something in 92 and 96 and put Ralphy boy up to his Quixotic (sp) quest for the White House. Were those really windmills on the White House lawn or was Ralphy seeing things? Well, at leat he did it his way.

Aint politics fun? (Especially the Texas variety. Here in Louisiana we treat it as a spectator sport with wagers and point spreads.)
Peter Frampton
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 12:57 am:   

DOooo you, YOU!........FEEL Like I do ?
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2001 - 12:48 am:   

HB, I need no justification for selfishness. What's mine is mine. It's that simple. I should decide who I want to give my money to, not the government. What did the good ole USA ever do before welfare? We had charity. What the welfare state has done is take the humbling aspect out of receiving welfare (charity). They call them entitlement programs as if anyone other than myself and those I desegnate is entitled to my money. I firmly believe that if all entitlements were abolished the private sector would make up for it and do it better than the government ever could. Americans are a generous and compasionate people. When we see someone who needs food or shelter, we find a way to get it for them. You have to admit, if you see your friends and neighbors going into their own pockets and pantries to help you when you're down you are alot more appreciative of it than when an annonymous check arrives in the mail box and you are alot more likely to feel the shame of being a burden on someone else and get up and find a way to provide for yourself. That's what conservatives really believe. No one wants to put widows and orphans on the street. We care for humans as much as our brothers on the left, we just believe that it isn't the governments job to take care of us all. It is our job to take care of ouselves and each other. I know I feel alot better when I give my hard earned money to a charity that I know will do good things with it than when I write that big fat check to the IRS every year knowing that more than half of that money will be eaten up by a bureaucracy that does nothing more than string red tape everywhere. That's just my two cents.
bored & broke
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:17 pm:   

TD 15 is now off the coast of Nicaragua, oh well.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:56 pm:   

Corporate Democracy; Civic Disrespect an excellent article by the noted economist from Texas, James K. Galbraith, can be found and read at the following hyperlink:

Thanks Humanbeing for the reference.
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:39 pm:   

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
- James K. Galbraith
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:58 pm:   

Hey, there are some rumors that TD 15 may end up a cat 3 near Tampa Bay. Maybe we can put our minds to work on Flood, FWUA and homeowners claims so we can have a nice Christmas. You guys are so much fun to argue with. I hope everyone knows it's all in good fun.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:50 pm:   

Kile, you are now correct after realizing that the Taxpayers Relief Act of 1997 was superseded by The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, signed by President Bush on June 7, 2001.

If you will read carefully, you will note that the Federal Estate Tax Exemption is only eliminated for a one year period for the year 2010 unless it is extended by Congress and is thereafter reinstated at the current rates without Congressional extension.

The legislation repeals the federal estate tax for decedents who die in the year 2010. For decedents who die before 2010, the legislation increases the exemption amount and decreases the rate of estate tax. After 2010, however, the repeal of the estate tax (and all the other provisions of the legislation) "sunsets," which means that on January 1, 2011, the estate tax will be reinstated in its current form. Thus, the estate tax repeal is good for only one year.

Ironically, it was the state Governors and not the Democrats who more vociferously opposed repeal of the Estate Tax Exemptions due to their forecast loss of income for the states. And as we all know, a majority of states are governed by Republicans.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:38 pm:   

Sorry Jim, Those were the 1997 numbers here are the new ones, you were correct. That's what I get for trusting the IRS web site.

Amount of Assets in Estate Effectively Exempt from Federal Estate Tax

Exempt Amount



$1 million

$1 million

$1.5 million

$1.5 million

$2 million

$2 million

$2 million

$3.5 million

Estate Tax Repealed
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:34 pm:   

Jim, I looked it up, these are the actual numbers as far as I can find, please let me know if they are not correct.

1998 $625,000
1999 $650,000
2000 and 2001 $675,000
2002 and 2003 $700,000
2004 $850,000
2005 $950,000
2006 or thereafter $1,000,000.

I'm not sure which is correct but I found the above numbers in several sources. Oh, and the best news of all, after 2010 there will be no estate tax. Thanks to the clear headed GOP.

I read the article you referenced and what you said was true according that article, I read several other articles and the above is what I found in all of those articles.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:08 pm:   

Gale it is dark early out because tonight is the night those ingenious Canadians are sending their astronauts to walk on the sun and outdo Americans who have only walked on the moon.

And Gale just remember, you heard it here first. J

Thanks Pardeep for the inside 'tip' from Montreal
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:06 pm:   

Jim, I said in my post that I hadn't looked it up lately and I was trying to remember something that I had read a while ago. I was refering to the new top rate when all the reforms are in place. So my 1.2 million was .3 million shy. If you read the post you can see that I have fully grasped the concept and I state that I hadn't looked it up recently. If I thought that it was all that important I would have. But you further my point. The GOP has further helped the woking man by 300 grand more than I thought. Thanks Jim.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:03 pm:   

You boys fight hard all night now so I will have all of life’s answers when I wake. Should I fail to wake I pray the Lord my soul to take. I am going to the house early tonight since it has been dark for so long already. Do you think the sun is running out of gas?
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 8:53 pm:   

Kile, there was a $525,000.00 difference between your answer and the correct answer. I don't see how that much difference in the correct and your incorrect answers would even begin to allow for you to say that the answers are essentially the same. (Mine was correct because I do my research notwithstanding the fact that I didn't major in accounting. This process is also called engaging one's brain before engaging one's mouth; a concept which is totally alien to you from a reading of your posts).

I doubt seriously that the IRS would see a $525,000.00 difference in tax liability as similar or essentially equal. But then again, I didn't major in accounting, and you did, as you say; but I do know how and where to get my facts so as not to show the world I am an idiot.

Thank God my CPA goes to the current Federal Tax Code or some other authoritative resource to get correct answers before he throws out an opinion off the top of his head. Of course, that is what separates the pros from the amateurs, whether in accounting, tax law or cat adjusting.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 8:33 pm:   

Jim, I majored in accounting. I know alot on the subject and it has been a while since I read over the new rules. But if you look at my answer and your own you will see that I was pretty much right on the money. The point is, the GOP has done alot for the working man. The difference between the two parties fiscally is Repubs look at things strategically and Dems look at them tacticaly. Or long run/big picture versus short run/immediate gratification.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 7:41 pm:   

$675,000.00 is the correct current Federal Tax Exemption rate for decedents who die in the year 2001. (Believe me I know a little about this subject as my Mom died this year and I'm currently settling her estate).

The exemption for decedents who die in the year 2002 and 2003 is increased to $1,000,000.00. The exemption increases to $1,500,000.00 for decedents who die in 2004 and 2005.

The use of a qualified CPA, CFP or Tax Attorney can greatly lower or eliminate tax liability under the Federal Estate Tax for larger estates through estate planning and the use of tax free gifts, trusts, and other tax saving vehicles.

For more information about Federal Estate Tax and exemptions, please follow the following hyperlink:

Kile, wouldn't it be easier and make more sense to research (what do you think Internet Search Engines are for?) and get the right answer or just say you don't know than to expostulate an incorrect answer for a subject with which you apparently know very little?
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 4:12 pm:   

Alan, the amount exempt to estate tax used to be $600,000 now it is, I believe (It has been 10 years since I took tax law) $1.2 million. I know that sounds like alot, but if you own a family farm with a couple of hundred acres, barns, silos, tractors, combines or maybe a family store that carries any kind of inventory, plus a house and whatever investments you can aquire over a lifetime that 1.2 million adds up pretty quickly. The tax is levied on the total value of the estate, not the liquid amount so heirs are forced to sell off all or part of the estate to pay the taxes. Explain to me how the government has a right to anything I plan to leave my heirs, it's mine, I paid taxes on it when I earned it, what gives the govt. the right to tax me in the grave? Just another wealth redistribution plan the liberals love. Steal from those who work hard and give to those who don't want to work.

And no, I don't work for fun. I work to earn a living and to build up my own personal wealth so that some day I may not have to work. That, after all, used to be the American dream. Thanks FDR for taking that away from us with the welfare state.

Mark, I hate to say it but in the past 20 years the Christian coalition has hijacked the Republican Party, so I can see why you thought that just because I was a conservative I would also be a devout Christian. It is too bad, the GOP had a good plan until Pat Robertson reared his ugly smiling face.
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:42 am:   

Kile, I can easly understand how you believe YOU won the argument, good for you, and in your terms you likely did win. Think , quoting the Bible does not lose an argument, but hiding behind a belief system without logic does. You are right we need a storm.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:35 am:   

Jim I was scanning really fast and missed your :) You sure can get the hit rate up. Things have been crazy here.

If this carrier staff adjuster reduction cycle kicks back in it will be good for the cat vendors which will be calling more cat adjusters. Two years of no hurricanes and large staffs has made per claim cost run pretty high i guess.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:18 am:   

We really need a storm.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:09 am:   

You think?
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 11:00 am:   

Jim, sorry, I did not lose my argument, I won, as I said anytime anyone brings up religion in any agument they automaticaly lose because they have lost all ability to think reasonably. I still have my soul and considre myself to be very spiritual, and belive me, my audience is still there.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:46 am:   

Gale in your earlier post it seemed you had seen behind the excesses of my grammatical smokescreen, yet from your last one, it seems to have escaped you.

I took no personal offense at your earlier remarks, but among other intents, personalized my post as a device that you might see how others might themselves feel slighted.

I have always enjoyed a reciprocally playful banter as you generally seem to catch on quickly to double entendre and hidden meanings. Yet I do abhor when some embedded ideas go right over some heads sometimes.

Here's hoping you now understand my comment and purpose therein and that we share no present disagreement. J
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 10:17 am:   

Jim how can anyone get upset over a post the author refers to as pointless gum beating?
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:37 am:   

Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds.
- Thomas Paine

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
- James K. Galbraith

Private property ... is a Creature of Society, and is subject to the Calls of that Society, whenever its Necessities shall require it, even to its last Farthing, its contributors therefore to the public Exigencies are not to be considered a Benefit on the Public, entitling the Contributors to the Distinctions of Honor and Power, but as the Return of an Obligation previously received, or as payment for a just Debt.
- Benjamin Franklin
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 9:29 am:   

I dunno, Jim. You can see some of the oddest things being read during a barrage; motorcycle magazines, Playboy magazines, Popular Mechanics. But, your right, no college logic books or political propaganda. That is usually saved for calls of nature when the good stuff is used up.

In the meantime, all us true believers wait for the phone to ring.

Sarge Kyle, You can share my hootch juice anytime.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 8:54 am:   

Amen Linda. Amen Ghostbuster. But then again, I'm a believer. Gotta have one or two in the old foxhole you know............(BTW, I've never heard of the soldier in battle reading the Republican Platform or a Book of Logic in the foxhole during the heat of battle.)

Memo To D Wong: Your assumption may or may not be 'fair' as you suggest, but from my biblical research, your statement appears accurate.

Memo to Kile: You lost your argument. Then you lost your soul. Now you have lost your audience.

Memo to Gale: Dangling a chain? Take my bait? New levels? Moi?.......Surely you jest. J (As my friend Tom Joyce says, it is a Jesuit thing)
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 8:05 am:   


It appears our den Mommy has spoken.
Linda Asberry (Linda)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 7:21 am:   


And what is the subject of this thread?? Please follow the subject and remember some things are often best left unsaid.

Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 12:43 am:   


Your ignorance of the Bible is astonishing to say the least. Many of the matters in both the Old and New testaments have been verified by many different archeologists over the past several hundred years. To suggest that someone in the Vatican wrote the Bible in the 16th century is so overpoweringly asinine it is beyond comprehension. The Old Testament goes back thousands of years and was written by many people across the Middle East. Most of the New Testament was written within a hundred years after Christ’s crucifixion.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Monday, October 29, 2001 - 12:04 am:   

Sorry Jim I thought you were dangling your chain just to see if someone would pull it. :) Jim you crack me up the way you try to see how many people will take your bait and your ability to take it to a new level.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 9:54 pm:   

Jim, my soul has very little to do with a book of fiction that was written by some very old, very repressed men in the vatican in the 16th century.
Don Politte (Donp)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 9:14 pm:   

Ah! Once again if our feelings get hurt we start the bickering and name calling again.
If you Dems want to give your hard earned money away, go for it, just leave mine alone.
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 9:09 pm:   

If Kile has lost his soul isn't it fair to say he can go to hell?
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 9:02 pm:   

Kile I am begining to understand and appreciate Alan's comment about nuttiness.

You have now not only lost your argument, but with your explicity pronounced disdain and disregard for the bible, it would seem you have lost your soul as well.
alan jackson (Ajackson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:58 pm:   


Please tell us all that you know about gift and estate tax. Please do not leave out the part about present use tax. How does that affect the overall tax view. This is a Bar Exam Test Subject. Give me a free Bar Review. How will this effect over 98% of the population? How will this effect, the Bill Gates of the world? How will this effect the working man. You must be one of those guys who work for fun. If you had a clue about what you where talking about, you would be setting on the sidelines. I and everyone else awaits your rapid response. Please Kile, what is the exempt amount value of the estate before the tax applies? Can you bypass the tax? What is a charitable trust? I and my fellow Democrat brothers and sisters await your'e answer. please enlighten us all. If you have some type of new legal theory, let me know.
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:57 pm:   

Kile, I have never met anyone who holds the more extreme positions you do ("evil clintons") who doesn't not fall back on religon (I didn't say the bible) to justify their position and explain why they are correct. You're comments to Jim are clearly understandable considering your previous remarks.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:50 pm:   

Alan, I gave you several examples.

Jim, Anytime anyone brings up the bible in any argument I automaticaly tune him out because he has no logical argument left. That's a fact. When you have to use religious text that has no basis in fact as your argument then you have lost.
alan jackson (Ajackson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:46 pm:   

Kile and Gale:

Please do not let me catch you at any courthouse. if I do, I will drag you in front of a judge and have you sent away for these postings. They are prima facia evidence that you are nuts. The funny farm you are going. Gale, I am about ready to cancel Power Claim, my favorite estimating, program. You guys must have lost it. Yet be specific, what has a Republican done for the working man? Nothing!!!!!!!!!! Don't blame Sadam on Clinton. Be one with the mold.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:32 pm:   

Kile if you really believe your last statement, then you neither understand the bible nor the tenets of rational argument and logical thinking.

Your last statement is perhaps the most asinine and inane comment I have ever heard or read coming from the mouth or mind of a presumably intelligent man.

Mark you are on to something as well. Name calling always follows logical dissection of the extremist position.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:31 pm:   

Mark, there is an old saying that you can always tell a Republican but the problem is you can't tell them much.

But for the life of me I can't see what any of this has to do with the topic thread of 'State Farm'. Am I the only one missing something here?
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:23 pm:   

Jim, no disrespect intended to anyone, but generaly, the bible is brought up when all rational argument has been shot down.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:16 pm:   

Mark, who said anything about hate?
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 8:10 pm:   

Well said Jim, The politics hate always come from the political extremes, as they are the only one's who know all the answers. I have a feeling nothing we can say will tone down the retoric but we can always turn the other cheek.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 7:09 pm:   

Don, just remember that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey and not an elephant. (Mark Chapter 11 for the uninitiated)

I'm reasonably sure if one reads the words of Jesus without prejudice and free of cultural/political bias, they might be shocked to find his words, thoughts and ideas more akin to socialism than any other form of government or political persuasion. And I am not familiar with anyone ever accusing Jesus of not being a 'thinker' or having his head buried in the sand.
Don Politte (Donp)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 7:04 pm:   

Where I came from I was taught that this country was a Republic, not a democracy.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 6:39 pm:   

Gale, I beg your pardon.

I have been accused of a lot of things, but not thinking is not on the list of sins for which I am guilty.

You have a right to your opinion Gale as well do I. That is the beautiful thing about a democracy with the right of free speech.

I do think however that you have sunk to a new low in name calling and owe an apology to all who visit this board who might be a Liberal or a Democrat or share a viewpoint other than your own, for your callous, careless and caustic comments.

Just because some of us don't share your viewpoint or Kile's viewpoint, doesn't in any way make us any less intelligent, rational, reasonable nor mentally aware and astute as you and/or Kile. We simply choose to reach an entirely different conclusion from our own education and experience.

I'm rather sure that you don't ask potential users of PowerClaim whether they are Republicans or Democrats or Socialists or Methodists or 'whatever' in some 'purity' or Litmus test, before deciding whether to accept their hard earned cash for leasing your PowerClaim software program.

May I suggest to every adjuster who also happens to be a Liberal or Democrat that they should consider dropping the use of your PowerClaim software so you can sleep at night knowing that hard earned money from socialists, welfare cheats, and deadbeats like us isn't filling your PowerClaim coffers.
Chuck Deaton
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 6:24 pm:   

The only duty any corporate management has is to the stockholders, more particularly the large stockholders.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 5:21 pm:   

Maybe a North Ridge II would stop all of this pointless gum beating.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 5:13 pm:   

I stand corrected on the fact that government is a business. Government is run for the benefit of the employees. In business employees’ work to bring about a return on the capital investment required to create their job position. To keep an employee that is not bringing about the required ROI is a crime against the government because it lowers the taxes due the government unless you believe in socialism.

There is a paradox here in the fact if one believes in socialism he is for a big government which is for little business which in turn leads to little government in time because little business pays little taxes that can’t support a big government. If one will only look at how western Europe is collapsing under socialism because it demands small business but if we are just programmed member of the ape family why would we look, it might force one to think.

Perhaps Jim sums it up well when he declares he was programmed to bury his head in the sand and against all forces will refuse to think with it. That is like arguing with a post with one end buried in the sand.

I am a registered Democrat but I refuse to give up my God given right to think for myself. What is the point of being a free man if one refuses to think? A train may be big and strong but he is programmed to follow the same path of his parents and grandparents, which they never chose for themselves to start with. The tracks were laid to serve the interest of the men that made the capital investment so as to serve their interest, not that of the trains. Perhaps there is more of Bin in us all then we want to own admit. In the past the thinkers have won over the non-thinkers but maybe expecting the future to be more of the past makes us all non-thinkers.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 5:04 pm:   

Oh, I forgot, Republicans fought to reform estate taxes so that people inheriting the family farm or other small business, don't have to sell that farm or business to pay the taxes. They are also doing everything they can to eliminate capital gains taxes so that when we invest our hard earned money we don't have to pay outrageous taxes when we retire and need that money. Just a few things.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:54 pm:   

Let me see, what have republicans done for the working man. Tax cuts to stimulate business, increasing the amount of momey in your pockets and the amount of money that companies have to invest in growth or even to stay in business so that they can employ "the working man".

Republicans fought to downsize welfare so that those of us who work for a living have more to keep in our pockets and no longer have to pay those people sitting at home watching Oprah and having illegitamate kids. Remember, the Republicans are for those of us who work. Democrats are for those who do not want to work and think that a living should be handed to them by the gorvernment.

Like I said before, I don't see how anyone with this job could be anything but conservative. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me liberalism stands for socialism, giving people something for nothing, taking away my hard earned money, the destruction of the family, the downsizing of the military, political correctness, Clintonism, lying, hypocracy...the list goes on.
alan jackson (Ajackson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:41 pm:   

The approved vedor contractors are now putting the staff boys and girls out of a job. Why pay someone to adjust a claim when a contractor and his dig camera will do it for free. Soon this site will be full of those x-staff people wanting to become cat adjusters. Most states require adjusters to have some type of specialized training. Contractors are basicly adjusting claims without a license and or any specialized adjuster training.

One day, and it will happen, another Andrew or Northridge will hit, and then what will they do. Offer $150.00 a day.

Please, someone tell me one thing that a Republican has ever done for the working man. Just one.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:37 pm:   

Jim, I wasn't defending SF's claim handling practices in a particular case. I was merely saying that they have every right to run the personell side of their business any way they please. It makes sense that in a time when there are few claims to have fewer adjusters than in a time when there are lots of claims, that's all.

As a GE stockholder and the son and grandson of GE lifetime employees, I highly recommend Jack Welch's new book that was mentioned earlier.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:22 pm:   

Kile, I think if you will read the entire 38 page opinion of the Utah Supreme Court in the Campbell v. State Farm Auto lawsuit, and focus on what is called the PP&R or State Farm "Performance, Planning and Review" policy, you might discover one other reason why State Farm has done so well as a business, as you say.

Of course, if you read it with your mind made up in advance, there really is nothing to be gleaned nor any real need to read it.

If that doesn't convince you somewhat, please let me know, and I'll be happy to forward on to you several other court decisions against State Farm with additional equally compelling arguments as well as even more disturbing resource materials straight from courtroom and deposition testimony.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:15 pm:   

Mark, this isn't 1909. The days of child labor violations and the company store are long gone. But just like I said, the government programs designed to eliminate them still exist. Once a bureaucracy is established it is almost imposible to get rid of it. We have a bloated, obsolete, unwieldy bureaucracy that is more appropraite to a socialist utopia than to the free and capitalist republic that we are supposed to be.

The only things the government is supposed to do is keep the peace and protect us from enemies foreign and domestic. As you can see from the events of the last several weeks it is doing neither.

As far as State Farm laying off employees during the fat and happy times, think about it for a minute. Why is State Farm doing so well? Because there haven't been many cats in the past couple of years. They don't have anything for their people to do. State Farm isn't a welfare or job creation program, it is a business. Why should they employ more people than they have to just to be employing people. When things change and they need more people they will hire more people. That's just the way the world works, it's called Supply and Demand. There is no supply of work so there is no demand for workers.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 4:13 pm:   

I'm a Liberal. I'm also a Democrat. Always have been and always will be. Ditto for my parents and grandparents. You're not going to change my mind about that and I am not going to try and change yours.

Furthermore, I see no paradox whatsoever with being both a Liberal and a Democrat and also being a cat adjuster. Nor do many of my friends in this industry who share those same values and attributes.

Now let's get this thread back to the topic at hand (State Farm) and leave liberalism versus conservatism for another thread in case someone wants to start one.
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 3:56 pm:   

The paradox is simple. I chose how I make a living. I also recognize that the people who brought us company stores, work camps and child labour do not always have the best interest of anyone but them shelves at heart. There is more to life then the $. Also I realize the (contrary to Rush and Savage) not every democrate is a minion of satan nor is every republician and angel of the the Lord. Neither exteme liberalizm nor extreme conservativizm will ever serve the needs of a people.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 3:09 pm:   

The problem is, government ISN'T run like a business. In business when a division becomes obsolete you close it down and dedicate those resourses to something else. In government once a program is begun, it never goes away no matter how misguided, mismanaged or unneccesary it becomes.
The US government has become Robin Hood, stealing money from the people who have the initiative and desire to earn it and giving it to the lazy, useless, good for nothing people who are happy to live off of the dole and teach their illigitimate children that this is the way to live.
It is this kind of social engineering that the Evil Clintons took to the extreme in the 90's that caused our millitary to decline and our intelligence gathering capabilities to sink to the point that they can no longer defend our country from a bunch of rag headed, camel riding, cave dwelling zealots.
It baffles me how anyone in this profession could be a liberal, a democrat or for big government. We work for ourselves, take care of ourselves and want as little government interference as possible. We are the ultimate entreprenuers and capitalists. I will never figure out this paradox.
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 2:53 pm:   

The great myth of the polical (extreme) right is that government is a business. The good Lord save us if that ever becomes true. After all when a business is finished with you they just turf you and say so long. We already have enough homeless.
Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 1:19 pm:   

Gale said:
The US Government and State Farm are both businesses and will be affected by what happens to you and me.

Gale, where did you ever come up with the idea that the US Government is a BUSINESS. You better read Jack Welch's book AGAIN.. my uncle is a EVP at GE and I have met Jack Welch. This IS NOT his stance. Get it straight.
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 10:05 am:   

Gale, I read your post twice but what's your point? I too, like you and State Farm, started and operated my own shop. I have also gone thru the paryoxms of the business cycles. El diferencio grande is that you and I don't have the money tree forest that Big Red has. We go thru layoffs because we had, (have), to, they did not.

Yeah, call me old fashioned. Yeah, I am an anachronism. Yeah, I have an obsolete DOS based moral code. If I hire someone, I expect us both to die at an old age from natural causes and still plugging away at our jobs! To intentionally lay off people when you are cash fat just doesn't compute!
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2001 - 11:06 pm:   

“For them at the same time, also kill off thousands of salaried positions is beyond cold and cruel.”

Ghost I had a comment on the above statement you posted on Monday. While I agree that corporations actions can be mind boggling our generation is somewhat tainted by “Socialism”. I am about ¾ the way through, “Jack, STRAIGHT FROM THE GUT” by Jack Welch after 40 years with GE and the last 20 as CEO.

It is a book that any CEO and perhaps anyone interested in business should gain a lot by reading. He may wind up in the same category as Henry Ford, Sam Walton and Bill Gates. He said it is best to cut waste before you forced to do it.

Any company that is in #1 in size is going to attract more attention to its actions and be a greater target for legal action than a carrier not on the radar. I expect to see 1000 carriers to disappear over the next 10 years.

Mergers will be what happen to many but several will be sold of one dollar to stronger firms because they did not get their cost in line with premiums. Can State Farm stay on top? It may be a chore after 1000 of today’s carriers are gone.

Something you may find interesting Ghost that I heard this week. After 2 years of no major cats, collapse of the stock market and strong competition some carriers are looking at going back to the IA model in a major way. With today’s technology virtual national/regional IA firms are easy to set up and maintain compared to yesterday year.

Will the CAT adjuster go away? NO. Will the CAT adjuster be able to make $75K to $125K annually on average? Will the $1K gross net that Tom turned down be the new norm?

Ghost in our business model we expect to see the stock markets make some recovery from now through late spring only to return to current trend without interruption until 2004. If the carriers see the same thing they have to be concerned. I personally expect we will see DJIA at 5000 or lower before we see any new highs.

Wars are expensive and depressions lower taxes received which sets up any business to see a negative cash flow. The US Government and State Farm are both businesses and will be affected by what happens to you and me. We can hope of the best but being prepared of the worst can soften its effect if it occurs.
mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 2:30 pm:   

For the most part Chuck, itis true, but the % of mean spirited, and people of questionable personality is high enough to keep the lawyers and PA's well feed. Having worked (past tense) with some very bad people and having seem the abuse first hand I can understand both sides. I have also work with some of the best. Now that I have escapes to cubicles, I nearly always am working with the very best in the business. The worst things the industry has allowed is letting the accounts run the show and after introducing plain language wordings, find ways to make then unreadable.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 1:46 pm:   

Perhaps there are others with a different viewpoint than Chuck’s personal experience but as a person outside of the actual adjusting experience yet talking to both adjusters and claims managers I agree with Chuck’s assessment.
Chuck Deaton
Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 12:08 pm:   

"Let me clarify and reiterate my point. I, both as a staff monkey and independent shaved ape, have NEVER seen any attempt to blatently and intentionally mishandle our fidiciary responsibility." Not once in 30 years of being a licensed adjuster and working all lines for hundreds of carriers to include State Farm and Allstate.

Once, while working for State Farm, I was instructed by a superintendent to contact a hit and run victim and determine whether State Farm could extend coverage. I did and the injured person received policy limits.

The impetous was a newspaper article and discussion among employees.

However, the Utah case makes for interesting reading and should be treated as a primer.
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 11:18 pm:   

Let me clarify and reiterate my point. I, both as a staff monkey and independent shaved ape, have NEVER seen any attempt to blatently and intentionally mishandle our fidiciary responsibility. Not once in twenty-five years. If anything, losses are consistently overpaid as is dictated by one of the Guiding Principles of Insurance, "GIVE THE INSURED THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT".

But, then again, I live in the dank world of Property Losses. This Utah suit involves a casualty mentality. In property, we are taught from the get-go to find ways to say, YES, YES, and finally, YES! In the casualty world, they are taught to say, NO!, NO!, no, well, maybe, howza-bout a compromise? This is the key difference in philosophy twixt the two branches of the P&C universe.

Go ahead, Jim. Whack my leading chin all you want. I still maintain my experience has consistently been that in every State Farm cat office I've been in, all questions of coverage are slanted to looking for ways to pay the Insured. We are not the bad guys. That some bad apples further up the chain on a separate branch of the insurance tree decide to play by the wrong rules is something I have never seen.

Their actions taint the already poor public relations image you and I and the rest of this gathering are trying to dispell. But, only in a quiet fashion, one Insured at a time.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 9:35 pm:   

Aw Ghostbuster, why don't you stop beating around the mesquite bush and tell us how you really feel?

Ghostbanger may I suggest that you read the entire opinion of the Utah Supreme Court and then tell us that you feel that State Farm handled the Campbell loss appropriately.

To think that some idiot claims Supervisor and Regional Claims VP refused to settle the claim for policy limits of $25,000.00 only to have the Utah courts to award $145 Million Dollars in punitive as well as another $2 Million in Compensatory and Legal fees should boggle the mind.

It was even beyond insane to read that the same SF Supervisor and Regional VP went back to the original handling adjuster right after the initial lawsuit was filed and asked her to alter the file documents and attempt to spread malicious knowingly false rumors about the other claimant parties to save their own hides.

Where I come from, that is called lying and fraud, and down where you live Ghostmeister it is more akin to horse thiefin' and cattle rustlin'.

I was floored to read that a State Farm Regional VP had testified that in another lawsuit, he was not required to even report a $100 Million Dollar punitive damage award to SF National HQ's.

Amazing. Simply amazing.

It's almost as entertaining as that 'mold circus' ya'll have running down in Texas.
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 9:20 pm:   

To me, it's a real shame these massive awards convey the sense that we adjusters are some kind of evil ogres. At every Big Red cat office I have ever been to, every effort is made to construe coverage on questionable situations. You and I both know the sometimes heated discussions that take place in order to find a way to PAY the Insured's often odd-ball loss.

These suit awards do not reflect the day to day reality of our world. I have also found the same mentality in other carriers, including Big Blue. During a tour of duty in 1995 in Glendale for Allstate, every effort was made to pay promptly the earthquake claims based on the best information we could obtain from a variety of engineers and other experts. We went at it in as fair a manner as possible in spite of the organized mad dogs of the C.A.R.e Group and other assorted barracudas. I have no sympathy for those S.O.B.s out there. The 10.0 can't come a moment to soon for my taste.

In conclusion, I will continue to 'lead with my chin', always trying to do the right thing, and wholly confidant that it will be whacked. I do so because this is the best way to keep getting a good nights sleep.
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 4:26 pm:   

Gale, perhaps we need to start a new thread entitled State Farm Lawsuits Du Jour.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 3:18 pm:   

More legal news in the news.

(Link Removed)
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 10:57 am:   

Art, I'd say it doesnt' matter if the door is open or closed. A closed basement door doesn't make it any less a basement.
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 10:32 am:   

Hello GB, Thanks for the "extant" of "yer" welcome. If my elucidations are elucidating for you, I shall continue.

Kile, does it matter if the floor safe is open or shut most of the time. What with fees and all, the door has been open since there's nothing of value there.

A true, blue smartaleck? Hmmm, GB. Which post made you think that? Please be more specific than ALL.

Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 7:30 am:   

Ghostbuster has made reference to some interesting information about State Farm's 'wealth' which was contained in the recent Utah Supreme Court Decision in Campbell v. State Farm Mutual Auto Insurance Company which CADO readers can access through the weblink which I posted previously under this thread.

By the way, the Utah Supreme Court upheld a $145 Million punitive damage award in this particular case (by setting aside the lower court remittitur).

Here is just one section from the findings of the Utah Supreme Court decision:

¶26 State Farm's wealth is enormous. As the trial court found, "[t]he evidence indicates that State Farm's surplus increased from $2.65 billion in 1977 to $25 billion in 1995. Its assets increased from $6.3 billion in 1977 to $54.75 billion in 1995, at an average increase of $4.3 million per working day in surplus, and $9.3 million per working day in assets. . . .

Any cat adjuster who works or anticipates working for and handling State Farm claims assignments should read the entire court decision.

For those CADO readers who missed seeing the hyperlink to the Utah Supreme Court decision, here it is again for your convenience:
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 9:44 pm:   

Art, only the tub and the safe would be considered basements, not the whole room. And this is according to the flood policy which has no real basis in reality and no semblance of logic. According to flood a building consists of two solid walls and a roof. I guess a round building only isn't a building because it has only one wall.
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 9:35 pm:   

Hmmmmm...Medulus, let me get this straight. You would want some of us CADO-ites to go forth and meet the carriers and vendors to say and do, ... what? Maybe make some reasonable minor demands or requests?

Are we beating around the old unionization bush again? I thought despite all the heat and smoke from that topic last year, some flame would have flickered. But, alas, none billowed forth. The carriers and vendors continue with business as usual.

Back to the Snake Farm topic, I always knew they were soaking in cash, but not to the extant they actually are according to the court documents that Jim so kindly provided the web site to visit. For them to increase their cash value and reserve levels despite a slew of catastrophes boggles my mind. For them at the same time, also kill off thousands of salaried positions is beyond cold and cruel.

I see we are in the presence of Art, a true blue smart-alec if I ever saw one. Welcome ,Art. Please continue with your elucidations.
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 9:01 pm:   

Wow! That means I've suddenly gone from a no-basement rancher to a two basement home in one fell swoop! My below grade sunken tub makes the master bathroom one and my two foot deep floor safe makes my walk-in closet another one.
Darryl Martin
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 5:04 pm:   

Concerning the three inch basement, that is not exactly correct. It makes no difference that the floor is three inches below the other floors. To be a basement the room or any portion of the room must have its floor below ground level(sub grade) on all sides.

Darryl Martin
Steven W. Ebner (Medulus)
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:31 am:   

Never one to sit and listen to the grass grow with the second ear cocked toward the phone, my experience is more like Tom's. I have had 6 weeks off since July 2000 and I had to force myself to take that time off and tell the vendor I have been working for that I needed a break.

A little shameless self-promotion goes a long way. A top-notch professional job performed when the assignment comes through goes even further. A file closure rate that leaves them guessing how you do it with mouth agape never hurts either.

Janice Joplin said "Why is it that half the world is lonely when the other half is lonely, too?" There has to be a way the catadjuster community can fill the need for professional adjusters on an as-needed basis for the companies who are bemoaning the cost of their large salaried staff of catastrophe adjusters and support who are frequently underemployed. Are there some creative people out there who might come up with some solutions here that don't leave half of us lonely when the other half is lonely too? I bet there are, and I bet there is a way to make it cost effective for both sides. I am not suggesting what the answer might be, but only that there must be one.

After all, we aren't just catadjusters. We're American catadjusters (with acknowledgement that Canadians live in North America too). Our ancestors were kicked out of every respectable country in the world (I've just gone from quoting Janice Joplin to quoting Bill Murray in Stripes, sorry). As CADO we are organized, and here is a suggestion. Maybe it's time to choose some from among our ranks to sit down directly with the folks at the big carriers and the big vendors (for starters) and find some solutions to how we can all keep working without having to sell our services in the bargain basement or giving up our independence in the process.
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 8:06 am:   

I have talked to claims managers and found that they are "going" or have "gone" to internal "at home staff cat adjusters" on call 24/7 at a nice salary, perks,etc, car, all the whistles and bells and run in to a good size cat and work 2 to 4 weeks and then go home. all on line and can do paperwork at home even.
I have worked since the 26th of Dec with only 1 week break and still think the deal may be better than we think.
Our profession lets it ownself down as the big carriers and the big vendors, when offered a carrot, say the adjusters will take cause they ain't working. true I guess.

mark (Olderthendirt)
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:26 am:   

I have always suggest that this industry is it's own worst enimy, an old english saying penny wise and pound foolish... chances are that the people who created this mess will get promoted... Think how many cat adjusters could have be paid with $100 million.
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 11:40 pm:   

Ghost I really don’t know. The only face-to-face conversation I have had this year with a Cat manager of a carrier in the top 5 size wise told me was that they built a good size (100+) cat crew internally because they felt like they were being taken advantage of in their own mind by some vendors. I do not remember if he said why or not but it seems to have been with the total charges slapped on top of the adjusting fees but since I do not know that industry I did not grasp his concerns. Do the big vendors have something like profit and overhead they add to the regular fee schedule?
Roger Eyman
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 10:18 pm:   

What on earth is a " Snake Farm Lawsuit "???
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 10:01 pm:   

The Utah Supreme Court decision in the case (Case # 2001 UT 89)mentioned here (Campbell v. State Farm Mutual Auto Insurance Company) can be found and read at the following enclosed hyperlink to the Utah Supreme Court website:
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 9:57 pm:   

Gale, that's real nice for the local's to get some storm work on top of the regular stuff, that's to be expected. But...what do you hear on your grapevine about a reticience to the use of the real storm trooping crews? Why do you suppose the carriers, particularly the Big Boys in red and blue and the setting sun FIG, would think this way?
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 9:29 pm:   

Kile and Ghost, on the issue of not working of course the major reason is the lack of major CATS but I have noticed several fast going IA firms are selling their services for daily work with the understanding they get the CATS that turn up in their back yard. This is why you hear and will hear more often from CAT adjusters that sleep at home when on the job.

These firms just reposition staff for a few weeks to handle the storm along with the staff adjusters from the carriers. In other words these carriers are going to great lengths to not to deal with the major CAT firms. At least the hurricanes are predicted to more in number and intensity the first decade or two of this century.
Chuck Deaton
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 9:01 pm:   

The State Farm judgement was handed down by the Supreme Court in Utah. It arose from an automobile accident that occurred in 1981. It makes for interesting reading, especially if you don't know how the casualty business works. The court was expressive in its description of State Farm.

I found it by using Copernic to seach for Utah Supreme Court decisions.
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 7:45 pm:   

I know of one person that is working mold in Houston, but he is the only one that I know of.

As far as the storms that went through Tx and OK, there were only about 20 homes in about 5 different places that were damaged. Nothing widespread.

Looks like there are a lot of us that will need to find local jobs until next storm season. Oh well, that's the ups and downs of this business.
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 2:38 pm:   

No, Ghost, you aren't the only one not working. As a matter of fact I don't personally know anyone who is working. Most people I know haven't worked since July or August. I'm talking about experienced senior adjusters. I don't know who is doing all the work.
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 2:00 pm:   

Yeah, I saw that blip, too. I recall it said the award was for $145,000,000 for non-payment and under-payment of claims. No other info was given.

Also, what did ever become of the storms in the past 10 days? Am I the only one not working?
William S. Cook (Wscook)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 12:45 pm:   

If it is a three inch sunken floor in the living room and the sunken part is lower than any other floor in the home it is a basement, it is a three inch basement according to flood.
William S Cook
Public Adjuster
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 11:05 am:   

I don't know anything about a State Farm suit, do you know what state it was filed in? As far as a basement I would say that it is a level where the floor is subgrade on all sides. If it is a walkout on one side I don't think it can be considered a basement. Just my thoughts.
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 10:20 am:   

I saw a blip on CNN the other day about State Farm and another bad faith situation. Has anyone any knowledge of it?
Also, I heard nothing of the recent storms that crossed the southwest and east.
Now finally, someone give me "great" unrefuteable definition of a "basement". of course its for coverages, i.e., a liability situation.

Topics | Home | Current Forum | The Classifieds | Adjuster Roster | Channels | Resources | Contact Us