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Last Post 12/06/2007 1:56 PM by  Ed The Roofer
Roof T.O. w/2nd Layer CDX
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Ed The Roofer
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11/12/2007 10:04 PM

This weekend, I added the digital and scanned 35 mm photos from my foreman onto that forum photo site.

There is only 1/2 roll of film left to be developed and then scanned and entered, but pretty much the ones in there show the end of the job, minus the gutter installation, which may be done tomorrow.

As usual, thank you for your perspective and comments.

Ed

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Ed The Roofer
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11/14/2007 12:48 PM

I hate the way some company adjusters intentionally avoid meeting with contractors.

I showed up for todays 10:00 am appointment at 9:45 am. My gutter contractor was there since 9:30 am. The daughter in the home was awake with her son at 8:30 am.

I waited until 10:45 am and then called the adjuster. He told me that he wasn't sure if I had told him I would be there or not, so he decided to come earlier and did not have my cell # to contact me with.

No one saw hide nor hair of the guy and he did not knock on the door. He left a "Sorry We Missed You" note stuck in the front door, instead.

Every e-mail correspondance I sent to him contained both my office and cell #'s, so unless he did not bring the customer file with him, I find that very hard to believe.

Why the heck is there little communication on their behalf?

Arghhhh!

I know. So they do not have to address all of the details with a knowledgeable tradesman and only deal with an unwitting home owner insted. 

Yes, I know pricing questions are usually a forum taboo, but do I seem in line with my per foot pricing for the various items? These are the rates listed in my standard proposal, which was supplied via e-mail to the adjuster prior to us beginning the project and required additional repairs.  A per foot basis seems like a fairer method to arrive at an honest tally, versus the undefineable time plus materials method.

2" x 4" rafters @ $ 6.00 /ft


2" x 6" rafters @ $ 7.00/ft


1" x 8" soffit @ $ 5.00/ft

1" x 6" plank board decking @ $ 3.50/ft


1" x 6" fascia @ $ 4.50/ft

I have heard that typically, an insurance company will provide an additional 20 % to 30 % on top of the sub-total of all combined invoiced work to allow for general contractors O & P.  Am I correct in that information?


I am still in a bit of a quandry regarding the pricing for the additional layer of plywood decking, as my standard proposal in this instance, did not take into consideration a hidden layer of decking.


I want to be sure that I do not have any major discrepancies when and if I get the opportinity to discuss this with the adjuster, if he ever contacts me. I have found that the company staff adjusters usually seemingly intentionally show up at a different time to miss meeting the contractor in person, as the 1st 2 adjusters did and now this 3rd adjuster seems to be doing

So.....Does my pricing seem to be in line? This winds up being a significant total dollar amount so far, not including the possibility of the O & P they are theoretically supposed to add on.  How does this stack up in an insurance adjusters exactimate program calculations?

If someone would like to prepare an unauthored version of an exactimate estimate for me, I would gladly pay you for your time and efforts.


Thanks for reading through this voluminous post and for any feed back given,

Ed

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Ed The Roofer
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11/14/2007 11:45 PM

For those of you who enjoyed viewing the photos of this entire jobs progression from start to finish, today we installed the seamless aluminum gutters along with oversized 3" x 4" downspout leader pipes and 3 foot extensions away from the foundation.

The new photos are now added to the photo forum located at this link:  http://rightwayroofing.freeforums.o....php?p=7#7

I added the new photos as a new post, to make locating them easier so you would not have to wade through the entire album previously submitted.

I want to sincerely thank everyone who chimed in with their thoughtful comments and advice.

If you ever need any well versed roofing advice or commentary, please check out the http://www.contractortalk">www.contractortalk forum, where I typically hang out at.  Or, you can just Google; " Ed The Roofer " and you will find additional forums I participate in.

If and when, I ever hear from the adjuster, I will be considerate to share the final results with you all for indulging my presence in your forum.

Thank You,

Ed

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BobH
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11/15/2007 12:16 AM

Well, like we were saying before, the adjuster simply needs to get his estimate done.

In a perfect world, you would have tarped the roof and billed for emergency work only.  
Then get an agreed repair value before diving into the project.

I really hope that you folks are not too far apart.

Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/21/2007 3:59 PM

Well, as I sit here, I still have never recieved the adjusters report.

I e-mailed my line itemed total invoice to him at the beginning of this week, but have not heard back from him or anyone from his insurance company yet.

I will remain in contact witht the home owners to see if he is bypassing me and dealing directly with them instead.

Prior to me sending him my invoice earlier this week, the home owners daughter who does the translating from Spanish to Englsh had told me that he had contacted them over the weekend and will have a check out by next week. 

I had not sent him the totals of all the line itemed work which had fixed per lineal or square foot costs in the signed contract when he had contacted them at that point.

I will keep you guys updated.

Thanks.

Ed

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Ray Hall
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11/21/2007 7:23 PM

About 1991 Texas had a ruleing by the commish for a complete TO to wood deck or a CDX deck if old wood shingles was the deck.All the carriers except about 4-5 agreed and the commish lost in court. I worked off and on for two of the carriers who won the suit for years.

We would work the reroof/deck claims and apply 99% depreciation on the TO and redeck (non recoverable) and I have probably worked close to a 1,000 since 1991. Why99% the puter had a difficult time with 100%

Now this is Texas, not the rule in the USA and only for 4 carriers. Since then millions have been saved by the carriers on hail damage to roof that has a single layer over a good solid deck. When was the last time any one saw an old old T Lock shingle or a Bird shingle that two little locks on the solid shingle. These old shingles were verfy vulnerable to hail, because they had a hollow space under the lock

In 1996 the state of Mississippi excluded aluminum carports and patio covers for wind/hail.

Where is the building over water exclusion on the HO-3 in most states policy ?

Did you ever see how a dissapearing deductible on the Homeowners Policy back in the 1960,s

In a NFIP policy if you have carpet layed over old stained hardwood floor for years that is destroyed, what type of underlayment do you have to go back with ?

If you have an old two story dwelling with cast iron waste pipes and electrical wire in conduit on the side of the house and 4 double hung wood sash windows on the front were destroyed by a fire loss what type windows would have to go back ?

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OdieWyatt
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11/21/2007 8:39 PM
When was the last time any one saw an old old T Lock shingle or a Bird shingle that two little locks on the solid shingle



Ray

T-locks are still popular in El Paso. The Home Depot keeps several different colors in stock. I wonder if the Bird shingle what I used to call a J-lock?

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Ray Hall
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11/21/2007 10:10 PM

Odie, as I recall the Bird did look like a j. They both were good wind shingle on mountain areas. I worked in Pubelo, Co. on summer and the T lock was the only single in Town.  Never worked to El Paso must be a lot of 35-40-50 mph gust.

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Ed The Roofer
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11/26/2007 8:27 PM

Well today I finally got a return call from the adjuster and he said that he contacted the villages code department and that they are using CABO 1995.

He says I need to go dig out the building code that states that we had to change all of the plywood decking.

Rafters on 3 sides near the 2 hips had extensive damage and on the other remaining side, the main center support rafter was dislodged.  Her said that if I can show him the requirement to using the 4-ply 1/2" CDX on the 24" OC rafter spacing, than it will be considered a code required upgrade, but without that information, his hands will be tied and he will not be able to write up the double layer plywood removal and replacement, because not the entire house sustained rafter damage. 

I am sure that if anyone viewed the progression photos I linked to on the forum I set up, it was clearly obvious as to the extent of the structural damages.

I spent 2 hours today, researching the code books I could get my hands on, to be able to substantiate that this was required.

I wish I was more familiar with looking things up in code books.  Normally, each city just provides a couple of page hand out with what their specifications are.

Ed

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OkcLarryD
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11/26/2007 8:31 PM


Perhaps a gift certificate to Vale Tech for the adjuster would be in order.

Not a payoff, mind you. Just a donation to his education fund.
Larry D Hardin
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BobH
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11/26/2007 10:15 PM
...and he will not be able to write up the double layer plywood removal and replacement, because not the entire house sustained rafter damage.

Removal shouldn't be an issue, because everything had to come off of the rafters to free them up for replacement. Or is he focused on the non-damaged side?

I don't think you put back more than one layer of sheathing did you? I thought there was one layer of plywood on the rafters, then some shingles, then a mystery layer of plywood, and more shingles. Seems you would just go back with a single layer of nailing surface - and the prices aren't much different for the material choices of that nailing surface...

Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/26/2007 10:23 PM
Posted By Bob Harvey on 11/26/2007 10:15 PM
...and he will not be able to write up the double layer plywood removal and replacement, because not the entire house sustained rafter damage.

Removal shouldn't be an issue, because everything had to come off of the rafters to free them up for replacement. Or is he focused on the non-damaged side?

I don't think you put back more than one layer of sheathing did you? I thought there was one layer of plywood on the rafters, then some shingles, then a mystery layer of plywood, and more shingles. Seems you would just go back with a single layer of nailing surface - and the prices aren't much different for the material choices of that nailing surface...

 

 

Bob, You are Correct. 

It seems as if he is either looking for further substantiation to turn in or is looking for a loop hole to not pay the full claim.

I will proceed onward as if he just needs further validation to pay out on.

I only went back with one proper layer of plywood decking, even though there were 2 layers there previously.  That would have been an idiotic tact of redundancy to do so.  I do not believe that when the insurance companies pay to have a 2 or 3 layer shingle roof removed and replaced, they expect a 2 or 3 layer roof to be re-installed.

Correct also about the decking.  Actually, on occassion, the thinner and weaker varieties of plywood sheathing are more expensive than the 1/2" or 5/8" in comparison on a per sheet basis.  It must be a supply and demand thing.

Ed

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BobH
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11/26/2007 10:31 PM
I will proceed onward as if he just needs further validation to pay out on.

Personally I wouldn't walk that road. It isn't a code upgrade issue. The freakin' rafters were busted, so all layers of shingles and decking comes off from the ridge to the eve on the affected slopes in order to gain access. And you can't leave 3 layers on part of that slope, it would have to be picked clean down to the framing.   If portions of the slope were undamaged, the original sheathing could be left attached to undamaged rafters.

Then put back something that is uniform on that slope. I don't see a code issue, it's just what you have to do to put the homeowner back where they were.

What if you start walking that road, find there isn't a code to describe what he wants described... it just isn't the right issue. My opinion from 2000 miles away.

Bob H
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Ed The Roofer
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11/26/2007 10:43 PM

I agree 100 % with you Bob.

I don't get where he came off stating that if I can not get the code to back me up that the decking replacement was a necessary code upgrade, he would not be able to submit that for payment.

I did find a 1995 CABO book and did find the requirement, but I don't know if that will be opening a bigger can of worms for him to pick apart.

Damage was to all 4 sides of that small residence.  Very minor comparitively, on the small triangle on the far side from the majority of the replacement being done. 

He stated that his company would not be paying for the decking removal on the unaffected portions unless it were required for a covered code upgrade requirement.  My point is that all 4 elevation views were affected and I do not think that they nor any building code inspector would have wanted me to piece meal in the repairs on only the most visibly damaged rafters and then to create a new surface, I would have had to level the new with the old, which would have required the 2 layers of plywood sheatrhing with an additional layer of shingles sandwiched in between them again.  That would be ludicrous to even consider.

Ed

 

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Ed The Roofer
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12/06/2007 1:56 PM

Well, I finally got the adjuster to respond to my request to get back to me this morning.

Remember, we have been 100 % complete since mid November and he stalled the process by requiring me to get copies of the building code to rationalize why the old plywood needed replacement with new minimum of 1/2" cdx.

After all of this time and with him authorizing the work to proceed and being updated with all totals on a daily basis including all of the job progression photos, including him having a copy of the contract prior to starting the job, he now says that some of the listed prices I have in the contract are too high.

He had the contract and the pricing in advance and the home owner has replacement cost coverage including code upgrade requirements.

What exactly is the definition of "Replacement Cost", if it not construed as the actual contracted price that were agreed to and authorized in advance?

Ed

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