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stormer1492
5 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2004 : 19:19:10
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question for adjusters...
What's the deal with adjusters bring out contractors with them on residential hail claims?
Many of the contractors you boys(and girls) bring with you have no affiliation with the carrier and are usually buddies you met in the field.
Us contractors who don't kickback (could be as harmless as a lunch or a beer) or don't agree with the carrier to work for substandard rates get the short end of the stick. Try knocking doors for a living its not as easy as it looks. |
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Gale
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 19:25:05
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| Can you be more specific? You do not give any example of “kickbacks” in your post. |
Edited by - Gale on 04/07/2004 19:25:56 |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 19:31:41
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| I don't know any adjusters that bring contractors with them to do inspections. I prefer not to have the contractor there when I inspect. They always want to talk and waste my time pointing out stuff that isn't covered or not related to the claim I'm handling. If you know of someone who is doing that kind of stuff you should bring it up with the carrier. |
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fivedaily
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 19:37:13
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I have taken a contractor out with me on several ocassions. Never to suggest them to the customer but rather, to assist with 2-story or steep roof access. All of this is only with the approval of my company and only with the purpose of assisting on the inspection.
Jennifer |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 20:33:58
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I have allowed a roofing contractor employee to ride along with me on a hail storm before (with the permission of the carrier), and in fact the roofing contractor did in fact sign up some of the insureds for repair or replacement, where their roof was one we inspected. Under that scenario, most of the roofs were either steep or high roofs or both which required two people to properly and safely inspect. I would add as well, that the roofing contractor (employee) riding along with me, was also working for one of the contractors on the preferred contractor list for the carrier.
But I missed out on the "kickbacks" although he would buy our lunch one day and I would buy it the next. We also had the same arrangement of trading picking up the tab on those days when we stopped for a beer or two afterwards.
If handled and monitored properly, there doesn't have to be any ethical impropriety or conflicts of interest with such an arrangement. |
Edited by - JimF on 04/07/2004 20:42:25 |
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stormer1492
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 20:59:15
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| whose monitoring you?? |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 21:08:18
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My carrier, my vendor, my conscience and a concern for my reputation for high ethical and moral standards and behavior, provide the ethical compass for monitoring my actions.
I suppose we all have a "price" at which we could be "bought" but it would take a hell of a lot more money than you or any other roofer or contractor could offer or afford to pay to buy my integrity!
Now if you ever want to make an offer for my serious consideration, we'll start negotiating when and after you put $25,000,000 (that's Million$) US dollars in the old secret Swiss bank account.
My bet is that you are only pissed because you haven't yet found the adjuster who will allow you to ride along with them instead of your banging on doors with cold calls? |
Edited by - JimF on 04/07/2004 21:17:34 |
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Johnd
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 22:08:09
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stormer1492
After reading your post, above I can only tell you that if I were still adjusting, I would most certainly try to find someone more sociable than you to ride around with if I was so disposed.
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John Durham
sui cuique fingunt fortunam |
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Czar
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 22:13:12
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Stormer:
I would have to agree, contacting a contractor to accompany us on a claim is a slippery slope. I had a 2 1/2 story red slate roof that I could not gain access to without a contractor. I make it a practice not to get buddy buddy with contractors, as not to give the wrong impression to my employer, carrier, or insured, so when I had to gain access I contacted a roofer that I had met on a couple of prior claims a few weeks before as he did not seem like a "salesman". With inspection I found 300 slate needed replaced, or about $8,000.00. Goes to figure the roofer I took out with me offered me a 10% kickback if I replaced the whole roof for $60,000.00. Needless to say or maybe it must be said for your reassurance, the small amount of money is not worth my job or my moral integrity, and I would assume that it would be the same for most adjusters. |
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Linda
USA
127 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 22:37:06
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There are times when the carrier suggests taking a particular contractor with you. Contrary to what most contractors think, the carrier does their homework too and knows who the honest ones are. Slate is always a slippery slope and if they have the only game in town that can match the slates, then guess who you will have to deal with sooner or later. Their estimate was always accepted. They were the only game in town and one of the most honest contractors I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Most slate is repairable unless it has been bombed. The very last thing you want is to have a roofer who doesn't understand the product or application much less the repair process but convinces the homeowner they do and in the end charges more money and does more damage than repair.
It would have to be a unique situation to have one assist if it were not a very high end material or unusual. Cottage type roofs (steam bent wood) are another unique situation and you will be in real trouble if the contractor doesn't know what he is doing. They aren't just a wood roof. You should buy the contractor's lunch if you can find one who knows what he is doing on these. Mshort may be running into a couple of these along the North shore of the Windy City.
I once heard a carrier say they didn't know anyone who could be bought for the price of a meal and I hope I don't either. |
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alanporco
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 22:56:45
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| stormer1492: I take you are a roofing (and siding?) salesman who chases storms?? I'd also hazard a guess that you under 40. Doesn't matter on the age,though. My point is that storm chasers are despised pretty much everywhere. However, I am available at a rate much cheaper than JimF. |
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sbeau4014
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 23:38:40
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We as adjusters have to have a working relationship with contractors. When I was staff and IA doing mainly local work, we had various contractors in that area that we could hire on a fee basis to provide competitive bids when there was a dispute on the damages between the adjuster and the insd's contractor that couldn't be worked out. I've been in this business long enough to see it all, from pens to lunches to gifts and on up to contractors treating adjusters to week long skiing trips to colorado, or flights to the gulf coast for the deep sea fishing trips. I would take the pen and an occasional lunch, but that was the limit for me. I have never hired a roofer to get me on a roof, even though the company I've worked for a lot in the last couple years allows the adjusters to hire roofers on a fee basis to get them up on steep or 2 story. Just my personal choice not to.
When I was in management I did a lot of reinspections on the claims and the customer survey that went along with it. I had one IA company that did a fair amount of work for us and one of the adjusters did probably 20% of our claims with that IA. I got a little suspicious on some things I saw on the files and pulled a group of his to audit and reinspect. I had a hail loss to a CC (big loss) and a fire loss to a business,and these had too many flags on them. The reinspections revealed that the adjuster brought his own contractor out on both of them on the 1st inspection. As per the insureds the contractor did all the measurements, etc on the damages and wrote up all the numbers. It was transfered over to the adjusters own worksheets and there was no mention in the files that a contractor was ever out on the loss for the adjuster. The insured on the fire loss told me he felt the adjuster was forcing his own contractor on him and there was a lot of pressure to use them. That adjuster and that IA never worked another claim for us again.
The appearance of impropriety can be there when an adjuster takes a contractor or roofer out on a loss cold. |
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Czar
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 23:43:17
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| I think as long as you make it very clear to the insured that the roofer is only out to get me access and that it is their choice as to who repairs their property, it should not be a problem. |
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ntzjazz
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2004 : 07:29:51
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As an adjuster, I am paid to inspect the roof. Thus I carry 2 ladders, one of which is a 28 foot ladder. The 28 foot ladder is all that i can handle by myself during a normal work day (5 to 7 inspections)
If the 28 foot ladder and a telephoto lens cannot document the damage or lack of--- I give the file back. Then the carrier or my manager can call the shots from there.
I have been an adjuster for 19 years--I have never rode with a roofer and never plan on it. I have met many roofer's (insured's choice) on an insured's roof and discussed damages, either at a first or last inspection.
I have worked clean up and know that even giving a "list" of contractors who will work off a carriers price list--can bite. I just do my work and stay clear of being seen close to any contractor period.
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Amber
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2004 : 08:53:29
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| We understand your point jazz. Must you YELL at all of us? |
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ntzjazz
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2004 : 08:57:45
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| sorry --it was not yelling--just in upper case---did not mean to offend any one |
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ethics or kickbacks...
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