| Author |
Message |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2001 - 1:10 am: | |
New Web Site:
You guys and gals have to check this one out.
ATOXICMOLDATTORNEYFORYOU.COM
Looks like the MOLD MONSTER is here to stay. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 9:17 pm: | |
Alan, I won't bore you with the details, but in todays San Antonio Express-News editorial pages, a Bill Summers of the Citizens Against Lawsuit Abuse group in the Rio Grande Valley expounds on the sins of plaintiff lawyers going for the gold in mold cases.
This is yet another sign that the carriers nationwide can not duck and run from this garden party. They must strap on their six-shooters and join in the fray.
One question, Alan. If your 'Bama house had been a W----- house, would the lawyers have been running so fast to get away from it? Or would it have been the other way around? |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 6:16 pm: | |
Ghost:
You let some of that Killer Mold loose. Saw my first batch of documented toxic mold. It was quite funny to see the lawyers run in and out of the house.(Even the defense lawyers where scared of the stuff) I didn't know Lawyers could run that fast. All involved quickly started to complain of headaches and wanted to return to their offices. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 12:36 pm: | |
The circus in Texas continues......
Another timely article in today's issue of the Insurance Journal Online continues with the saga of Texas mold claims. Entitled Texas Homeowners Scurry To Find Insurance As Mold Claims Grow, the article outlines the significant effect that mold caps are having on sales of policies in the marketplace.
Interestingly, the article discusses a survey of the Texas Association of Realtors that found that 18% of real estate agents knew of buyers who backed out of home sales because of the mold insurance situation and another 29% say it will hurt home sales if the problem is not soon resolved.
The article can be found at the following hyperlink: http://www.insurancejournal.com/html/ijweb/breakingnews/regional/South/so1001/so1018011.htm?source=optij |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 10:54 am: | |
The article in the San Antonio News Express which Ghostbuster mentions can be found at the following hyperlink to the SA News Express website:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlc=405885 |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 10:40 pm: | |
More scoop on the poop!
Today's San Antonio Express-News, front page, lower right of the Business section; Mold Cap Coverage Criticized. Homeowners, insurers weigh in at commissioner's public hearing. My fellow heroes, this little blood letting took place Tuesday in Austin before his highness, Texas Department of Insurance Commissioner Jose Montemayor.
(And what a blood letting it was.) 'Scores of witnesses spoke at the hearing at LBJ Library Auditorium.'
Poor Jose was hit from all sides. The Insureds don't like his staff's $5000 mold cap. The consumer advocacy group, Texas Watch don't like it. State senator Carlos Truan. D-Corpus Christi, don't like it. The carriers don't like it. Denise Ruggiero, counsel for State Farm Insurance Cos., said, "The mold industry is now so ingrained in Texas that it will simply shift the cost of mold remediation to water (damage) remediation, which is not capped in the policy".
Senator Carlos Truan says, "I strongly advise you, Commissioner, to call the insurance industry's bluff. It is highly unlikely they will be able to sustain a boycott of the Texas market."
A bluff? This ain't no stinkin bluff! This is a get down and dirty, shoot out at high noon showdown! The carriers have pulled out the stops here, folks. With over 50% of the market place refusing to sell a policy covering water damage and to hell with public relations image, I wonder what the next response of consequence from the state will be? Will they hold or will they fold?
Every day I drive by the massive, palatial local office and plant of Gerloff Contractors and am amazed that the entire site has been built from the over-payments of our industry. With the heavy investment this one mold remediation contractor has made in equipment, staff, and building, I would think they and their ilk would be at the fore-front of this fight. They have a lot to lose. Considering their sins I have witnessed, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. |
Mike Hillis
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 3:24 pm: | |
Back late last year I was on the CADO sight explaining about my daughters 2 yr old house that had mold problem. The thread went on for some time until I had Roy discontinue the thread.
Her house had mold in several areas of the lower story and also up the entry wall to the second story.
Her insurance company was advised and her adjuster informed her she did had a recent water loss and they would take care of her loss. I myself met with the adjuster reguarding my concerns on the mold that I saw. After approx. 5-6 months they finally agreed there was in fact dangerous mold within her home.l Oh by the way the mold was caused by a hot water pipe within the wall framing which had a sheetrock screw screwed into it.
Since the loss had occured 1 day before Thanksgiving of last year she and her family have not moved into the home as of this date. They were put into a 2 B/R apt at a local motel She also has 4 children all under the age of 12. 2 were my sons before he past away.
The reason the house is not completed is because the INSURANCE COMPANY & CONTRACTOR did not know what to do. I explained the problems last year but just within the last 2 1/2 months they figured it out themselfs.
Now before anybody thinks this cannot happen to them or in any city BEWARE. Her home is in Southern Calif. in the high desert area. My daughter is in a wheelchair (Was a Prop. Adjuster)with RSD that is progressive and also has lung problems. So dont think this is a funny issue.
Just some words of advise. Be carefull and read up on the mold issues. By the way, she has a major insurance carrier.. |
Jim Lakes
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 10:52 am: | |
Alan,
No, mold is not DEAD.
Carriers are not talking about it because they don’t want it to be another asbestos or anthrax item.
I have stated this on many occasions and will once again. It is a BIG issue and will continue to grow in severity. Here in the Chicago area we have at least two to three cases where that issue comes up and must be addressed weekly. Some carriers take the claim over and handle it in house and some prefer we handle it.
I would bet that if the all staff personnel would post about this subject here we would find that it is prevalent throughout the nation. In speaking to many people throughout the country weekly, I am hearing the same thing.
I will state, one more time, what I have said before. If we as independents do not address and document the “Mold and Mildew” issue on all water damage claims that we are involved in, we will bear the brunt of the consequences for not doing so. The carriers cannot be held liable if we as their “eyes and ears” in the field do not address the problem and put the “ball in their court.”
THE PROBLEM WILL BE OURS. Report, document, and PYA.
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 10:35 pm: | |
Mold at Home
For those of us at home, not working a storm, I have a question? Have mold claims become an issue for those of you working everyday claims? Here in good old Alabama mold is still something you find in the shower. It doesn't appear to be much of a concern for the carriers or adjusters here.
A Sr. Adjuster for Big Blue was heard to say that mold was a scam and they weren't going to pay out a penny for it.
Has Mold escaped the Great State of Texas yet? Is Mold DOA ? I am really surprised that I haven't seen a Lawyer TV ad for mold yet. Call 1-800-MOLD-SPORE. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 5:09 pm: | |
Ghostbuster, I believe the article which you refer to can be found by CADO readers for their reading pleasure at the following hyperlink to the San Antonio Express News website:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=131&xlc=373354&xld=130
|
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 8:40 am: | |
(From the rock & roll song, 'Charlie Brown'.) "Why is everybody always picking on me?
Poor, poor Jose. Why does everybody wanna pick on me? On page 9B of the editorial pages of todays San Antonio Express News, our boy Jose presents some of the worst sniveling I have ever seen. (The carriers don't like me. The consumer groups don't like me. Nobody likes me. Poor, poor me.) This is a man with a limited future as a public servant. Check it out, I'm rolling on the floor laughing! |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 8:07 pm: | |
Folks, I think my ox just got gored.
If we must use a nom de plume, please use one that is not a living or dead person. Be creative and find your own identity. Whether it be a fictional character, or expression, or a neutral or even a descriptive noun or pronoun, please be original.
To use as a non de plume that of a living person, (Paul Harvey), and to represent oneself as that person seems to my delicate sensebilities, like serving pigs feet to an orthodox Rabbi. It just ain't kosher! That I have listened to Mr Harvey since I was eight years old and he is one of my few touchstones with reality and a Norman Rockwell kind of life as we would all like to envision it, is beside the point.
There are numerous nom de plumes out there for the taking. Which ever you choose, please make us proud with your witticisms, pathos, comedy, drama, and war stories. And, always be polite, look both ways when crossing the street, and wear your galoushes and raincoat.
Thank you and have a nice day. |
Paul Harvey
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 6:03 pm: | |
Dear Mr. Ghostbuster,
I have just about run out of time on this planet and I think that you can fill my shoes when I am gone. I have a nationally syndicated radio show that I think would be ideal for you. You need to come in about once a week for a few hours to cut a weeks worth of 10 minute spots. The pay is not bad and you get all the Gold Bond Powder you will ever need for free. I will even pass my patented parting catch phrase on to you for a nominal residual fee. Lets get together soon to discuss... |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2001 - 9:31 am: | |
Ghost:
Are they going to raise a monument to the attorney and PA in Texas? If not maybe they should. Both guys standing side by side with the following at the bottom. " THEY BECAME ONE WITH THE MOLD AND WON" They have atlest generated a little extra billing for the gang.
Mold is still gold. |
Rick Brooks
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 4:36 pm: | |
An email received today, 10/09/2001. FYI
---
Toxic mold measure signed: Gov. Davis approves the fungus regulations and
other bills to improve environmental quality.
By Emily Bazar
Bee Capitol Bureau
(Published Oct. 8, 2001)
An insidious and sometimes invisible invader, toxic mold has forced people
from their homes and businesses, and has been suspected in illnesses
including respiratory distress and severe allergies.
On Sunday, officials hailed California as the first state in the nation to
begin regulating the destructive fungus. A bill signed by Gov. Gray Davis
directs the state Department of Health Services (DHS) to develop standards
for mold exposure. The bill also will require landlords and homeowners to
disclose the presence of toxic mold when selling buildings.
The measure was among a package of four environmental-quality bills Davis
signed over the weekend. The others will require the state to study the
health effects of toxic mold, develop a specific standard for chromium 6 in
drinking water and update the current standard for arsenic in drinking
water.
"These bills represent some of the toughest environmental health laws
anywhere in America," Davis said in a prerecorded statement released Sunday.
Recent outbreaks of toxic mold have captured the attention of lawmakers in
Sacramento, including state Sen. Deborah Ortiz, D-Sacramento. Ortiz, author
of SB 732, said she introduced the bill after employees of local businesses
explained how they were sickened by mold at work.
SB 732 enacts the Toxic Mold Protection Act. The bill instructs DHS to adopt
exposure limits for mold in indoor environments. It also will require owners
and landlords of commercial and residential property to disclose the
presence of toxic mold -- in amounts exceeding the new exposure limits -- to
prospective buyers and current tenants.
The department must report its progress on developing the limits by July 1,
2003. Owners and landlords will not have to disclose the presence of
excessive mold until at least six months after the department adopts the
standards.
"California again will be the leader in tackling a major policy issue,"
Ortiz said. "The challenge is on."
Erin Brockovich, whose crusade against Pacific Gas and Electric Co. was made
into a hit movie, supported the legislation because her sprawling Agoura
Hills home was infested with toxic mold.
So did Steve and Karen Porath of Auburn, who torched their Foresthill home
in February after they discovered it was infested with toxic mold and other
contaminants. The Poraths believe their children, especially 2-year-old
Mitchell, became severely ill from exposure to the contamination.
"No family should go through what we went through ever because somebody was
allowed to cover it up," Karen Porath said Sunday.
The other mold measure signed by the governor, AB 284, directs the
California Research Bureau to study the effects of toxic mold on health, and
to report its findings by Jan. 1, 2003.
Despite her advocacy for the new mold standards, Brockovich will always be
associated with her battle against PG&E over chromium 6 pollution, which was
the subject of another Ortiz bill, SB 351.
The measure requires DHS to develop a drinking water standard for chromium 6
by Jan. 1, 2004. Although the state already has adopted a drinking water
standard for chromium, there is no standard for chromium 6, one of two basic
forms of the element that is used in paint pigments and manufacturing
processes. Although chromium 6 is thought to be a carcinogen when inhaled,
it hasn't been determined whether it acts as a carcinogen when ingested.
"We're embarking upon a more specific, narrow standard regarding chromium 6
in drinking water," Ortiz said.
Finally, permissible levels of arsenic in drinking water will be updated as
required by SB 463 by Sen. Don Perata, D-Alameda. Under the bill, a revised
standard must be adopted by June 30, 2004.
The current level of allowable arsenic in drinking water is 50 parts per
billion, a standard that was originally established by the federal
government in 1942. A 1999 National Academy of Sciences report said that the
current limit does not protect public health and should be lowered as soon
as possible.
Because President Bush's administration recently delayed the adoption of a
new standard, Perata said he carried the bill to make California's standard
tougher regardless of the federal government's position.
"The state could have a stronger position than federal government," Perata
said.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The Bee's Emily Bazar can be reached at (916) 326-5540 or ebazar@sacbee.com.
Rick Brooks |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2001 - 3:23 pm: | |
...And, of course, let's not forget those paragons of virtue and forthrightousness, the local law frims. One that comes to mind is the peons champion against those bad ol' insurance companies, Bonilla, y Bonilla, y Bonilla, y Read, y Bonilla, y Bonilla, etc., etc., etc. These guys take nepotism to a whole new level even worse than the Pilot's or Eberl's.
When any case goes to court in Nueces county, and it's Juan Lunchbox vs Any Ol' Insurance Co., the jury loads up the basket for ol' Juan, everytime. It really is a beautiful thing to behold. It's better than winning the lottery and a lot more predictible. It happened on slabs and then it happened on mold. Maybe termites and fire ants will be next. How did this anti-carrier atmosphere come to be? Well, gather round the camp fire, kiddies. It's story time.
Once apon a time, back when Christ and Tom Toll were PFC's, Corpus Christi was a backwater for Farmers Insurance. In the early 1970's, they had a small residents adjuster office with no clerical, no REAL management control, and about 3 or 4 guys. This was there basic routine.
Each would casually saunter into the office about 9:00. Then they would all get into a company car and go to get the mail at the post office. Of course, they were starving half to death, so they would stop for a leisurely breakfast. Next they would stop at several pawn shops to check out rifles and shotguns, cause hunting season was a few months away. Then they got the mailbag from the post office. By the time they got back to the office, it was nearly 11:00. Now came the fun part. Dividing up the mail and new assignments.
Of course, ALL arbitration notices were promptly thrown away, causing all arbitration hearings to be lost thru default. Since property claims would involve spending time at the Insureds house and doing a lot of boring work, ALL the property assignments were also thrown away and not handled until a State Board complaint was recieved. Since the vehicle inspector was currying favors with area body shops, he got all the VPD assignments. That left the casualty assignments and they were divided by coin toss. Folks, this is a true story. The Insureds were treated like dirt and have ever since responded by throwing dirt back into the face of the carriers.
In retrospect, I can't say I blame them. For every 100 acts of goodness, it is all undone by the one atrocity. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 10:56 pm: | |
It's really simple, you know.
In Corpus Christi, (County seat of Nueces County), the 'Sparkling City by the Sea' as the Chamber of Commerce likes to say it, has ALWAYS been a regular pirates den. Why, every year they put on a citywide celebration called Buccaneer Days. No mystery here, folks.
Actually, if ya know the ground rules going in, the place can be kinda fun until along about May when the heat and wind and salt water humidity makes life without air conditioning absolutely unbearable. (When you walk out of the air condtioned building, your glasses instantly fog up and you stumble over the curb stop in the parking lot. It gets to be kind of a game after a while.)
Yep, lil pardners, Ol' CC is the birthplace of the mold and slab phenomenym in Texas, thanks to the efforts of a P.A., Mr Brock, who has plastered his billboard ads all up and down the freeways. If Jose and Big John Cornyn need any hints in their big Poo-Bah investigation, all thay need to do is drive up and down So. Padre Island Drive or SPID as it is called, and read the billboards.
Something else, you know, the longer they drag this mess out, the longer the mold crews on their Day Rates will get to milk the cow. What a sweet deal that is. |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 9:17 pm: | |
Mr.Cook, just next act in circus down there under Texas bigtop |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 8:48 pm: | |
Montemayor asks attorney general to investigate mold claims
By CONNIE MABIN
The Associated Press
10/5/01 3:56 PM
AUSTIN (AP) -- Insurance Commissioner Jose Montemayor thinks there's something smelly going on with the number of expensive mold cleanup claims in the Corpus Christi area.
So on Friday he asked Attorney General John Cornyn to investigate. Montemayor also called for state regulation of mold cleanup businesses.
"General Cornyn is very concerned that homeowners insurance remain affordable in Texas and he does intend to investigate the reasons why the costs of homeowners' insurance are increasing," said Cornyn spokeswoman Jane Shepperd.
Montemayor said the investigation could spread statewide, but Shepperd said for now the probe would focus only on Nueces County.
The number of mold-related insurance claims over $5,000 in the Corpus Christi area is significantly higher than anywhere else in the state, according to the state insurance department.
The agency said claims greater than $5,000 cost an annual average of $520.66 per policyholder in Nueces County, compared to the statewide average of $81.71. Forty-two percent of the large claims in the county involved multiple occurrences, compared to a statewide average of 10 percent.
Montemayor said there could be fraud occurring because other coastal areas such a Beaumont or Galveston had much lower numbers. "We owe it to the consumers of the Corpus Christi area to make sure that everything is on the up and up," he said.
The Corpus situation highlights the need for regulation in the mold cleanup industry, Montemayor said. The commissioner said he is looking into whether creating such standards would require legislation.
Mold insurance has become a major issue as consumers complain about how insurance companies are responding to an increase in mold-related claims. The industry says the unexpected number of claims have cost millions, prompting the state's largest insurers to limit coverage or stop selling new policies.
Montemayor said he is disappointed with insurers that have limited or stopped selling homeowners policies as well as with consumer groups he said have been reluctant to compromise with the industry.
"I'm disappointed because this of all times is not the time to shake the public's confidence in our institutions, including the insurance industry and its willingness to provide protection that families need," Montemayor said.
The commissioner is considering a proposal that would set a cap of $5,000 for mold coverage in all policies while allowing homeowners to purchase added protection for an additional premium. A hearing is scheduled for Oct. 16 in Austin.
Industry group Southwestern Insurance Information Service said Montemayor was "headed in the right direction by investigating mold cleanup practices." The group reiterated its desire to make mold coverage an option, not a guarantee, in homeowner's policies.
Rob Schneider, senior staff attorney for Consumers Union, said standards are needed for mold cases. He said Cornyn should investigation further by looking at insurance companies Schneider said are pressuring the state to allow mold coverage to be eliminated from policies. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 11:03 am: | |
I can see it now, the Texas Mold Underwriters Association, and everyone will have another policy to buy! Next will be the F (Florida) MUA and if you want to live on the coast you'll need 5 policies or more. The banks will be more interested whether you can afford the insurance then the mortgage. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 9:24 am: | |
And another one bites the dust!
The Great Texas Mold Showdown has erupted into an OK Corral shootout. Now SAFECO has pulled up their pants and quit writing new HOB's and raises the rates on remaining customers 17.5%. Whoops! There goes another one, and folks, it's Farm Bureau on Oct 1! Will this massacre ever end? Oh, the humanity!
By my count, so far, it's Mold - 5, Carriers - 0. The casualities account for some 52% of the homeowners marketplace. My guess is that ol' Jose's idea for the $5000 mold cap is a 'blowin in the wind'. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 5:55 pm: | |
Allah Abkar! (God is Great!) And, so it came to pass that the great and powerful Swami Ghostbuster's predictions did come to pass.
Check it out, o ye faithful flock, our pals at Big Red have curtailed the sale of homeowners and property coverage in the Great State of Texas. Wow!, scared off by little patches of the cutest patches of fuzzy mold you ever did see! And, the $1.77 loss ratio didn't help things either.
Also, our boy Jose ain't helping matters neither. With a base limit of $5000.00 for mold coverage, the remediation contractors will be left high and dry. So will the CIH's and let's not forget out PA pals. Sure...ol' Joe Lunchbox can buy a mold endorsement for 25%, 50%, or 100%, but can he afford it? Will it be downplayed by the agency force? Ya do know, they are having a S--T Fit, big time, over their loss ratios with mold, don't ya? And, last but not least, what about poor Jose? Has he started to dust off his resume?
Alas. The moldy goldy rush has an end in sight. (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! The great and powerful Ghostbuster has spoken!) |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 7:29 pm: | |
Candles might be polluting your home, EPA says
Or, Just when you thought it was safe in your home,,,,,,
By Traci Watson, USA TODAY 8/13/2001
A cluster of vanilla-scented candles may add more to a room than a golden glow and a sweet smell.
Recent research by the Environmental Protection Agency shows that burning a candle with multiple wicks or multiple candles can lead to high levels of pollutants called particulates.
The EPA began studying candle emissions after Congress asked for data on all sources of particulates.
The EPA has no legal authority to set standards for indoor air, but officials say the pollution from a burning candle can exceed the standards that the agency sets for outdoor air quality.
"If I were someone who had a health problem like asthma, and I were looking for things to prevent aggravating (my) respiratory problems, candles and incense are two things I would seriously consider" getting rid of, says Michael Osborne of the EPA.
Candle pollutants include:
Particulates, tiny droplets or particles of soot and toxic chemicals. EPA experiments found that burning one candle with multiple wicks or a cluster of nine candles in a room with good circulation led to particulate levels higher than the legal limit in outdoor air.
Lead, a nervous-system toxin. The wicks in a small percentage of imported candles have lead cores. A study by non-EPA scientists found that candles can emit enough lead to exceed the legal limit for outdoor air. The Consumer Product Safety Commission plans to ban lead wicks.
Candle-burning also may create black soot. A recent EPA report says scented candles are more likely to give off black soot than unscented candles.
The National Candle Association's Valerie Cooper says the concerns are overstated because the highest level of particulates was seen only when the candles smoldered.
"Their conclusions clearly say under normal conditions candles didn't produce significant amounts of particulates," she says.
The association and EPA suggest trimming candle wicks to a quarter inch, ventilating the house and keeping lit candles out of drafts. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:47 pm: | |
Go to SERVPRO.COM there is a great book on mold. It's about 50 pages. According to SERVPRO chemicals will not kill mold spores. Just download and print. It's one of the best mold resources I have found. |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 2:30 pm: | |
August 30, 2001
Texas Jury Renders Largest Asbestos Verdict To Date, Awards Mesothelioma Victim, Family $55.5 Million Against Kelly-Moore
EL PASO, Texas -- In the largest compensatory verdict for a single plaintiff in the history of asbestos litigation, a Texas jury on Aug. 29 awarded a former construction worker and his family $55.5 million from Kelly-Moore Paint Co. for exposing him to asbestos in its PACO joint compound product (Alfredo Hernandez Sr., et al. v. Kelly-Moore Paint Co., No. CA-2000-3559, Texas Dist., El Paso Co.).
I guess the real gold is on the Asbestos side. What is a PA to do??
William S Cook
Public Adjuster |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2001 - 9:39 am: | |
(Heavy blues guitar riff), 'Oh, it's raining down in Texas', (More blues guitar riff).
San Antonio Express-News, today, business section, page 1D, banner headline, State seeks halt of mold limits...Commissioner Jose Montemayor asks insurers for chance to solve the growing problem.
Austin-Insurance Commissioner Jose Montemayor asked the state's top 20 home insurers Thursday to stop restrictive marketing practices some have taken in response to the past year's surge in mold claims.
Montemayor also said he expects the Department of Insurance staff to recommend a solution to the mold problem by Oct.1.
"I ask that you give me the opportunity to develop solutions to this problem before you take drastic actions that could destabilze the Texas market and have unduly harmful effects on Texas consumers, "Montemayor said in a letter to insurance companies." ( Oh, what do I do now? It hurts having my arm twisted by the carriers but it also hurts having my other arm twisted by the consumer groups. Isn't there some round the world junket I can go on to get away from this mess?)
Annnnd, this complimentery broadside from Sandra Ray at the industry group Southwestern Insurance Information Service. "If insurers are to continue covering losses resulting from mold, we predict homeowners' insurance rates will increase 40 (percent) to 60 percent in Texas, Ray said in a statment. Unless decisive action is taken, Texas could face an insurance availability crisis, Ray said.
"The economic impact could be severe," Ray said. "This issue has the potential to paralyze the homebuilding and mortgage banking industries and the consumers they serve."
(Whew! That was a lot of typing!) So, here we are, in the old west saloon, the big money boys have laid their cards on the table while resting their hands on their pistoles, (that's Tex-Mex for hoglegs, thunder sticks, shootin' irons, peace-makers). The small money boys nervously peek again at their hand. In one ear they hear Kenny Rogers singing, "You gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them." But in the other ear, they hear a voice whisper. "Sometimes a bluff, a pair of dueces, and a 12 gauge can carry the day."
Stay tuned, folks. A new episode is coming soon to a theater near you. In the meantime, (Blues guitar riff) 'It's raining down in Texas, and the mold is growing tall.' (More blues guitar riff) |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 9:08 pm: | |
Gentlemen, I have not a clue what my mode of transportation has to due with mold but if we can keep up the good humor, (which we all need in copious quantities), then just keep it going. To
bring any of the "mold" claims, which by the way are not really mold claims but rather ensuing losses of a covered water event, to a conclusion sans the lawyer's office, we need all the humor we can get. If you really think you have seen and heard it all, trust me, you haven't.
Ghostbuster, I don't know who you are or give a tinker's what vehicle you choose to drive, but I suppose if we stop hearing from you it means you have stepped on a cow patty and slipped on your ladder.
On a more serious note, I truly can't remember who started this thread many months ago, but I want all of you to remember that after "Floyd", we had a lady adjuster begging for information on mold and not one of you "gentlemen" stepped up to the plate and offered assistance. Shame on you. I did try to help her find information--her husband and son were both ill after working flood in New Jersey. I made a new friend and am better for it. Definition of CADO is Adjuster to Adjuster.
By the way, I kept the information I gathered in a notebook and now refer to it often because we have been paying for it for years but never wrote "mold" in our log notes. It wasn't covered, remember? My notebooks go with me on every storm and you would be amazed at how much the trunk of that Lincoln will hold!
Ghost, just please tell me you don't have long horns mounted on the hood of your vehicle! |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 6:16 pm: | |
Everyone needs to check out the LOBBY. Click on the Panic button. It really made my day. One of the cutest things I have seen I a long time. |
Claimsranger
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 10:42 am: | |
By golly and by gosh! I've ridden in the back of a truck and in the trunk to the drive-in, but never tied to the hood! Sounds like a hoot! And Linda never told me she had a Lincoln.!! I have a couple of them in my right pocket! Yall come and see our country! I do have some spare change and I would love to meet ya! Ghoust, ask Linda, I have a new award for you to hang on your humble abode! I jist need a snail-mail adreszs. Glad you enjoyed my poem. Maybe we could both write a book and become Shrub type millionaires. The show has just begun and what a true circus it will be, especially and because it will be a TEXAS SHOWDOWN! You are right, Miss Higby would be appalled at my punctuation. I just sort of tossed that off the cuff without thinking (not my long suit) after a Bar-B-Q and a 1/2 case of ? I have been laughing every day since it hit the fan and 'Ol Jose is quaking in his split toed, tangerine stacy adams! Email me your mailing and I'll die before I let anyone know what it is!! Let me know because you deserve the award! |
R.D. Hood (Dave)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 4:24 pm: | |
The Lincoln may be in the shop from all the miles up north.
Besides,GB in TEXAS Linda only drives her pick up, (you should oughta know that), so don't confuse her with a standard adjuster, (i.e., Cadillac (carring a 40'ladder) towncar with deer on the bonnet, or other non functional mode of transportation.
Keep the lighthearted commentary coming, cause it wont be over for a few years and we shall all enjoy your publication. (You are gonna write a book of poems and related stories on mold? Ainna? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 3:06 pm: | |
Awww, that's easy!
1) Print out the e-mail and bury it in a pickle jar in the back yard.
2) On the night of the 13th day, dig it up and incinerate in your BBQ pit. Put the ashes in a zip lock bag and come to Texas.
3) Stop and pick up Claimsranger and make sure he brings some money.
4) Go see Linda Asberry and sprinkle the ashes in the trunk of her Lincoln. The three of you motor stately to Chuy's Mexican Restaurant on the west side of Austin.
5) Order a round of the Jenna Bush Memorial Margaritas and some nachos. After imbibing this libation, order some more.
6) At this point whatever your e-mail was will no longer seem important...
7) Call a wrecker to tow the Lincoln back to Linda's house. You can ride in the cab while Claimsranger is tied on the hood like a dead deer. |
Cecelia
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 11:34 am: | |
How does one email you directly Ghostbuster? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 10:33 am: | |
Did I tell Ya' or what?
The forces of Good and Evil now in the squared circle for a match of titanic struggle. In this corner stands the tag team known as the Home Office Policy Commandos. In that corner stands the tag team of Lil' Joe Consumer and the Pirates. Our referee tonight is Texas Insurance Commssioner Jose Montemayor.
From todays San Antonio Express-News, business section, page 3E, headline- Insurance overseer weighing mold issue... official needs time to consider demands of insurers, consumers.
Austin-- Texas Insurance Commissioner Jose Montemayor on Monday asked for patience from consumers and the insurance industry as he works to solve problems with water and mold insurance. "Meanwhile, I urge all concerned to exercise restraint. Insurance companies should avoid hasty measures to limit people's homeowner coverage before I reach a decision," Montemayor said. " Likewise, homeowners should avoid letting their concerns about mold drive them into precipitous decisions concerning the purchase or sale of homes." (When I took this job they told me all I had to do was sit here and look pretty. Nobody said I had to referee catfights. Maybe if I just flip this coin.)
Here is a man to be pitied. Poor, poor Jose. No matter how he decides, his political career is finished. Bodyslammed and choke holded with no one to count to three for him.
We should be paying admission to see this show... |
Roy
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 7:47 pm: | |
Here is a web site that has a page that they call " The Insurance Company Game" related to Mold Claims. It appears that the site was created by a homeowner. The web site is located at mold-help.org |
Jim Lakes
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 10:31 am: | |
To All,
As I have stated many times before, we must, as independent adjusters, protect ourselves. We must as Mr. Dye stated earlier: 9) I cannot stress enough: document, document, document, every call, meeting, and conversation. Remember everything is discoverable. Most of us treat every file as if it will go to trial. You want to CYA and the carriers
All carriers now know the ramifications of the problem that occurs if it is not addressed.
I agree with Jim Flynt, that this problem has existed for a long time and that now the “Environmental Whacko’s” are having a field day with this issue. The contractors are making hay with this issue. The PA’s are making hay with this issue. Moreover, as usual the lawyers are making hay.
It is true that it has been around for a long time and we still don’t know all the ramifications of it. We do know that people get sick and some die from it. That is why that I say we, as adjusters must protect ourselves when dealing with it and, must document each and every encounter we are exposed to. If we alert the carriers to the issue and they choose not to address it, then there is not a court in the land that will hold us responsible.
Some ask, “How do we make money from it?” I have stated before that anything we do in addressing the issue, increases the fee bill. It has and WILL.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that I was referring to ASBESTOS.
I hope many now get the point.
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
David G. Dye (David_Dye)
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 7:34 am: | |
Linda
Is 100% right, Saturday I "held" an insured's hand for over an hour and a half, explaining the entire process from coverages to moving out to testing to final reconstruction. "I don't know" came up more than anything else. The truly unfortuneate thing is there is no where to get better information.
The Insured's can and do become true wrecks with the lack of knowledge that we all have in this area. |
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 2:01 am: | |
I realy hope Erin or Felix will spin up real soon and do a good job on the east coast or Florida. If this thread gets beaten into the ground any more than it already has, they will soon be talking about mold in China. Do what I do in the down time guys, take up golf, shoot skeet, just get out of the house. That's where all that nasty mold is anyway. |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2001 - 1:08 am: | |
Well, gentlemen, I have sat here quietly by and really tried to digest all your posts. Each and every one of them held validity to a greater or lesser extent, however, no one has mentioned a very important component of this entire process; the insured. Many of them are truly traumatized and not just out for the remodeling!
Fear of the unknown is usually the greatest fear of all. The phrase, "no one knows", is an all too familiar ringing sound.
For the few who abuse the contract, i.e., policy, we must not paint them all with the same brush. Please bear in mind that we, too, are insureds.
A little Texas bashing seems to be going on and I will agree with some of you but at the same time you have to consider that we have every conceiveable terrain. Dry mountain ranges, high plains, piney woods and miles and miles of coast.
We get hail to hurricanes and all perils in between! So why in the world would anyone not expect us to have mold? After all, we do have the greatest land mass of any state. Ask any Texan and they will tell you Alaska is half ice!
Some of you feel that it apparently is no big deal--just rip out what you can see and build it back. It is not quite that simple as David can attest. Some of these claims may very well be because we didn't rip out in the past and just sealed and painted it. Trust me, 32 sf of drywall is the cheapest thing you can ever estimate.
The policy is our best friend--use it wisely and work safely. |
David G. Dye (David_Dye)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 11:52 pm: | |
Alan
I have one mold claim, it was one of the first. I'll never write an estimate for the repairs, or anything else. My job is simply to dot the i's and cross the t's and field questions and keep everyone on track. This claim started over 3 1/2 months ago.
When I reserved it for $500,000.00 for remediation, it was sent from the Dallas office to a GA in Chicago. He's been down 3 times, I've fed ex'd prints, met with people for him, held phone conversations, etc.
Guess what I've got over 300 billable hours so far.
They always need us for that layer of security and E&O coverage. If you're going to handle mold, I wouldn't walk out of the house for less than 10 million E&O, thank god, I'm not paying for it. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 10:43 pm: | |
It's A New World
Here in Alabama, they tell me if the underlying cause of loss is covered, then the resulting mold is covered to. If your house burns we pay for smoke and water damage as a result of the fire. Mold is not any different. Our world has been changed forever. Every state has jumped on the bandwagon. Just wait till the next Hurricane hits. Gone are the days of turning files and going home in 3 months.
They say mold either makes you sick or just dryrots your house. Either way it's here. We just have to figure out how to make our money doing it. Rumor has it several of the big carriers are having a hard time keeping adjusters to work mold. We have to get use to this. It's here to stay.
Instead of calling out adjusters to handle hurrican claims, they will call out the mold testers. When they are done, maybe they might give us a call. But, by that time all the approved contractors will be in line to do the work. What do they need us for???
Just my two cents. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 8:16 pm: | |
Uhhh, Jim, close, but no cigar just yet.
I wouldn't say that the concept of insurance in Texas is failing for those stated reasons. Rather it's the publics perception of what it WANTS an insurance contract to cover. Perception being the key word.
I see it a societal problem. Consumers want it all and they want it now, and delight on raising all holy hell till they get it. The carriers in response bend over backwards to avoid the shining light of TV cameras and public relations incidents. Or, to be succinct, the public is spoiled and the carriers have no backbone to stand up to them.
In Texas, the consequential loss clause has been around since Christ was a PFC. That it took so long for something as obvious as mold to burst thru as the monster it is, is something of a miracle. It was right there all of the time!
Wise men in Texas? They tend to find jobs that pay more than insurance companies do. In government? I don't think so. In the legal industry? Usually not as defense counsels.
No, I believe the time has come for a traditional, ol'west style showdown at high noon. It's either our way or we'll pull up our pants and leave the state! I just love a spectacle, don't you? |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 5:34 pm: | |
Memo to Old Dog:
(1) As I have noted here in my post under this thread earlier today, I have NEVER in all my years DENIED a claim and would rather suspect that if you have, you did so in violation of your proper relationship with your carrier and/or vendor; further to have done so would have been an egregious assumption of an improper authority. 'Enuf said.
(2) When and if a carrier does in fact DENY a claim, I can imagine very few reasons and far fewer situations where such denial was not done through intrepretation of policy language. Otherwise, the policy language would mean nothing and beg the argument as to why it even existed.
Please show us your knowledge and understanding by informing our CADO readers of the following:
(A) Why does policy language exist to begin with?
(B) Why do policy exclusions exist? What do they mean?
(C) What circumstances or reasons would you deem important enough or valid for you (in your imagination) or a carrier to deny a claim?
(3) If not policy language but also the underlying concept on which the Texas HO-B is predicated is not limited to "sudden and accidental" losses then is it not fair to say or conclude, that under an ALL RISK policy ANY LOSS would be covered including maintenance losses, wear and tear losses, and each and every other conceivable loss known to God or Man without any reservation whatsoever?
The whole reason that the concept of insurance in the State of Texas is getting ready to fail, is the failure of wise men in the State of Texas in failing to understand and adhere to the principles of insurance including the concepts of indemnity, law of large numbers, and sudden and accidental losses.
Your rather amusing yet ill informed comments should awaken all of us to how very near to the precipice the future of homeowners coverage availability , carrier viability, social instability, and financial chaos has come in the State of Texas.
(4) My coverage comments in the prior post were made in response to the very specific hypothetical scenario as outlined by David Dye. I assumed that most reasonable readers would have an understanding that they were not necessarily applicable in each and every situation imaginable. That was certainly not my intent and if that was your conclusion, then I am sorry my words fell far short in clarification.
(5) Your unenlightened comments are the very same reason why I said in yet another post under this same thread exactly why I am sitting on the sidelines laughing my a$$ off at the whole circus like atmosphere in Texas.
(6) I don't have the CPCU designation but I am working dilegently on it, but wanted to clear up that misconception.
Jim Flynt AIC, CIC, AAI, AIS |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 5:25 pm: | |
Now, now, Old Dog...Let's not tie lil' Jimmy Flynts feet to fire. He ain't from around here. This is a case of 'Except in Texas'. The rest of the civilized states use the phrase, accidental direct physical loss. Here, where the sage in bloom is like perfume, our glorius state legislature in cahoots with the DOI chooses other phrases for the insuring paragraph, then towards the middle of the policy, throws in the consequential loss clause. This is what is burning down the barn with the mold wars. |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 2:59 pm: | |
To Mr. CPCU, AIC, Flynt,,,How long has it been since you read a Texas HO-B policy??? Where are those beautiful words "sudden and accidental"? I need them reeeeaaal bad right now. This is the real world down here adjusting mold claims. Denying coverage is one thing but to do it using policy language is something else, especially with an HO-B "all risk" policy. |
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 1:51 pm: | |
I agree |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 1:13 pm: | |
Good point, Kile.
I 'll take the hit on spelling. Tho, as to the colliquilism, perhaps we're both wrong. A better butchering of the language would be, 'who'd a thunk', as in think, thank, thunk. And, let us not forget that Pi are round, kake are square.
( I'm sure you can tell it's time for all of us to get back on the road.) |
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 11:48 am: | |
Ghostbuster,
Just a couple of things I'd like to point out.
1. Grammar is spelled as I just did, not grammer.
2. The phrase is actually "Who'd HAVE thought", not "who'd of thought."
I hope this is helpful and taken in the playful manner in which it is intended. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 11:00 am: | |
'Oh, he's a long, tall Texan, he wears a ten gallon hat.' 'Oh, Roy! Oh, Roy! Is that some verse?'
Iambic pentameter? Ironic Rhymeing? Poetic commentery? And, in front of the whole wide world, no less, right here on CADO.
It's the Rime of the Ancient Schoolmarm come to haunt us as she hangs about our necks. A constant reminder do dot those i's, cross those t's, and commas, commas, never enough commas. All vital grammatical tools for the right and proper way to compose our thoughts in order to document our files and complete endless reports on the meaning of life and mold.
Roy, did you ever think it would come down to this? There we were. After lunch in high school English class, drowzy from the roar of a fan, engulfed in the poured on perfume of the girl in front of us, and having Miss Higby, (Never married and never a Ms), drone on about Beowulf. Who'd of thought that those foundational skills would now be required for the composition of correspondence and status's for tiny specks of fungus?
And, more to the point, who'd of thought that we indolent teenage louts would retain it after all these years? Is this why more country-western songwriters come from Texas than any other state? Are those ancient schoolmarms the ones to blame for it all? (Don't you slouch, sit up straight! The next time you come into my class, have those shoes shined and tuck in that shirt! Is that gum in your mouth!!???)
Claimsranger, you are to be commended for your effort. But, I do believe Miss Higby would tear you a new one over grammer, verse structure, and punctuation. But, I like it. Thank you. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 10:54 am: | |
With my head bowed I stand corrected, you are right, we only recommend!! I wonder how long can an event be, lightning tends to be very fast and a hurricane can be hours. Is there a maxium length to an event? |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 10:25 am: | |
Memo to Alan: If you happen to like (as I do) any of the following cheeses: Blue, Gorgonzola, Stilton, Brie, Camembert, Colummiers, and a variety of the French goat and soft cheeses then yes, there is 'good mold.'
If you also happen to think that millions of lives have been saved by penicillin, then ditto again.
Memo to Mark: Please advise us which carrier (or vendor) is paying cat adjusters to DENY claims.
Last time I checked, we make recommendations to the carriers and if we recommend denial of a claim, the carrier denies the claim. I am not aware of any cat adjuster having been given the authority to deny claims by any carrier or vendor.
For any cat adjuster to merely assume that authority is to usurp the limited authority given to him/her in their proper and quite limited role as an adjuster.
Memo to David: I am glad that you clearly write that your case is indeed hypothetical and for three reasons:
(1) What you seem to be suggesting borders on insurance fraud which I think becomes clear when any insured attempts to enrich a recovery beyond actual damages. The whole problem with some of these mold claims is not just that it goes against the concept of large numbers, but that it is also in violation of the concept of indemnity.
I feel it unfortunate that an illusion is created here which somehow suggests or implies recovering from an actual physical damage claim is tantamount to winning the lottery which (by definition) would thus constitute insurance fraud and further, that it (fraud) is ever morally, ethically or legally permissible. It ain't (pardon my S'uther-neze).
(2) I am only glad for your hypothetical insured that I am not the adjuster handling this hypothetical claim for your hypothetical carrier.
Insurance policies are designed to handle sudden and accidental events.
Specifically excluded as well from coverage are damage events which occur due to design or installation defects.
A condensate line is not 'supposed' to clog up and when they do, generally are not the result of a sudden and accidental event.
Unless your insured could show the sudden and accidental nature of such damage (and the water overflow or backup is merely the symptom of damage and not the damage itself) (to or within the condensate line itself) my recommendation to the carrier on a claim such as this would be to deny the claim based on exclusions for design and installation defects as well as the event not being sudden and accidental. Then your hypothetical insured could dismiss his hypothetical public adjuster and call his hypothetical attorney and sue the former seller of the property or the installer and hope they have some form of 'hypothetical' insurance coverage to pay for such a 'hypothetical' loss.
Thus, so much for your hypothetical insured's hypothetical bonanza at the expense of the carrier and other policyholders who would be forced to endure higher across the board policy rate increases hypothetically through hypothetically increased rate structures.
(3) I know David would never want his name or one of his posts to be read here on this widely published and highly visible forum by a carrier or vendor and associated with any suggestion of impropriety or insurance fraud. Based on my knowledge of his personal integrity and my personal friendship with David, I know he is not that kind of person.
Memo to Claimsranger: Nice poetry. Perhaps you are in the wrong calling. |
CLAIMSRANGER
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 11:34 pm: | |
Ghoust, this is for you, Good Texin (pronounced correctly). Linda said Roy may not post it so I sort a changed the last of it but now that the spin Drs. have a hold of this and it aint going away, I hope you get a hoot out of it!!!!!!And Roy may still not post it
"Another 4th has come and gone,
sparkling sunlight lit the dawn = 106'
the calendar reads "4Th Holiday"
with climbing roofs, worked anyway;
3 more down & more to go
some are yes, and some are no;
total the roof and pay the claim
Do it right and gain the fame!
Some are nice and some are not,
used to, be we don't pay for rot;
not one penny, not one jot
just covered perils to the dot!
Now it seems a court says "CHANGE"!!!
Mold and Mildews in the game;
Botchilinus or some such name
constitutes a legal claim!
Now the suits in lofty towers,
those that golf for many hours
are scrambling hard to find a fix;
before the 2nd court says---BOYS, this aint no stick!- go figure!
Your bend over analogy is so appropo I couln't resist! And LINDA, I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE OFFENDED A TRUE "TEXAS LADY"! |
David G. Dye (David_Dye)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 7:24 pm: | |
Alan
Stachybotrys, aspergillus/penicillium, and legionella; strike fear into the hearts of mere mortal men. Take heed, you asked for it! Document, document,document, and document some more: don't wait for these words to be whispered into your ear! Document every claim as if it were in litigation. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 6:11 pm: | |
Jim, I stongly suspect that every mold claim isn't a figment of the mind of a lawyer or p.a. Their ar epeople who have a problem, I have run accross people that lived with horrible problems because an adjuster said it wasn't covered or wasn't a problem. I have even seen hail damage reported by contracts that really was hail damage. last time I looked we were still being paid to deny a claim. Bring on the mold; before ot to old; real or not it's a claim; I get paid the all the same; maybe it really is gold |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 5:44 pm: | |
QUESTION
1)Is all mold, "Bad Mold"??
2) Is there "Good Mold"??? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 3:33 pm: | |
Oh, ye great and powerful wizard, Mr Flynt,
In fact, we do have a National Idiots Contest already. And, the winner in 1992 was your pal, William Jefferson C. In 2000, it was ol' Shrubbie.
Yes, you handsome devil, Texans who choose to buy the HOB policy will indeed be bent over. But, since they are already paying about 50% more than the national average, what's a poor soul to do? The same goes for our intrastate long distance phone bills. (Ya see, that's why Texans are sometimes called 'harda$$'. We pret' near have to be, what with all the gettin bent over we do down here what with the phone company, insurance company, water and utility company, and what all.) |
David G. Dye (David_Dye)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 2:50 pm: | |
Jim,
I have revised my earlier post in an attempt to clarify item(s) I omitted. It was late at night when I wrote the post and a glass of vino... What can I say.
Ghost - it truly is great to be an American in these wonderful times, walking with the giants. But how do I get on a fat day rate instead of a fee schedule or T&E. Thank god I've got enough other work here to keep from starving to death, but just wait until these mold claims start to close. Some outstanding T&E billing. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 2:39 pm: | |
What most folks don't realize is that you can/could find mold spores in almost any home in America. All it takes for a mold presence is a little moisture and a parent material (wood or cellulose fiber) where the mold can locate, grow and feed.
When new houses are built, most experience a rainstorm or two before the home is "dried in" so guess what: moisture has been exposed to wood. Next time you are in an attic, examine the underside of the roof decking to see what I mean. Note the black or brown areas which are now latent inactive mold spores.
I'm in the process of renovating a house right now, and it is about the 25th one I have done in the past few years. This house has never had an interior insurance claim nor has it had an interior water "event." Yet there are several areas where we have encountered minor mold presence. This renovation was/is not an insurance event and the process to remove this mold did not require some 'certified expert' nor were the costs greater than merely removing and replacing the areas of mold exposure and presence.
The good news for all the kind people in Texas is that they are going to have the wonderful opportunity to pay for this scam perpetuated by some Public Adjusters, unscrupulous lawyers, and greedy contractors, and they are going to be paying for a long long time.
Just watch what happens to the cost of homeowners insurance in Texas and the availablity of carrier coverage in the next few years to come. Then the 'joke' is going to be on those politicians, judges and bureaucrats who allowed it to happen and let them try to explain how they got the rest of you folks in the mess to start with.
From my vantage point based on what I hear and read, it sounds like Texas should start hosting the National Idiots Contest.....you sure as heck seem to have a whole bunch of 'em running around down there!
I just want to keep watching your circus from the sidelines while laughing my a$$ off. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 2:19 pm: | |
Oh!, the Joy! Oh!, the Rapture! Oh!, the Spectacle!
Again from the San Antonio Express-News, today, page 3D, business section. (Banner Headline), 'Agency asks state to block insurer's mold retreat'. 'The Office of Public Insurance Counsel filed a petition Friday with the Texas Department of Insurance to prohibit Allstate Insurance Co. from refusing to issue new homeowner policies on houses that have had water damage claims.'
'Allstate's decision Wednesday leaves only State farm Insurance among the big three insurers still doing business as usual.'
The big guns are roaring now. To use an analogy, think of this in terms of a great naval battle, like Jutland, or Suribachi Strait, or Trafalgar.
Each side is now firing off Public Relations broadsides and manuvering for position. All in an effort to sink this evil sea monster called mold, whose allies are the politicians, state officials, P.A.'s and lawyers, mold contractors and, finally, ol' Joe Lunchbox sitting in his infested house with fuzzy walls and ceilings! (So... who are the Good Guys in the white hats we are supposed to cheer for? From where I sit, I can't really tell.)
We are truly blessed to be alive at this moment in history to witness this spectacle in our industry. And, to think that a only a short time ago, we were truly ignorant of this when it was right there under our noses!
Is this a GOLD RUSH? You bet it is. I figure it will last another year once the policies are changed by the carriers, whether the various DOI's and courts like it or not. I humbly suggest that if you can get on a mold crew, whether for a carrier or on the other side of the fence with a P.A. or contractor, now would be a good time. Just be sure to get a fat daily rate, then sit back and watch the days go by.
Ain't it great to be an American? |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 11:18 am: | |
Excellent post David especially your link to the NYC Health Department website which has some valuable information which should be must reading for every adjuster.
My question to you is this: at what point in the process should the adjuster make a determination as to cause of loss and whether the mold is a result of a covered peril? (I am aware that the situation in Houston may be clear but other claims in other towns may present a less clear causation).
How would you handle a claim David should your intial inspection indicate two entirely different losses, one covered and the other non-covered with mold damage appearing to be the result of the non-covered loss? |
David_Dye
| | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2001 - 7:58 am: | |
Mold Claim Procedures
I've been in Austin, Texas for almost four months and I have 20+ open mold claims. So far one has closed and I've got one that's almost ready to close. The companies I am working for handle these claims differently than any
carriers I have ever worked for in these many years. I have never before hired a contractor on behalf of a carrier. All of that has changed since the Farmer's case came down in Travis County.
Jim Flynt raised some interesting points, which I had over- looked/omitted. It was late at night when I wrote the post so I have revised it somewhat. Mea culpa.
First you must determine if the mold is from a covered cause of loss. That's usually pretty straight forward. Roof leak, broken pipe, clogged HVAC condensate line, etc. I had one where the mold was coming up through settlement cracks in the slab as a result of both leaking supply and sewer lines. I was lucky, my CMRS is also a PE who did a C&O on the slab. We initially thought the mold was a result of a flex tube in the bathroom breaking, until the remediation began. We put a video camera (used for duct work) under the bathtub and found a cavern. The giveaway was when negative air pressure was put into the house, it began filling with methane gas. (Why me lord?)
For residential claims, you must have an underlying covered cause of loss, for the mold claim to be valid. The carriers I'm working for have pretty much agreed to treat the claim as one loss even when mutiple causations are present, whether covered or not. As long as we have one underlying covered cause of loss. I had one claim with three different causes of loss, two of which would not have been covered under mold, but when I brought up collapse, it was determined that it would be treated as one claim.
For commercial claims, even when we all know it'll be denied, we're still doing the testing. So if it goes to litigation, we have advised the Insured that there is a problem...
Anyone handling or contemplating handling mold claims should be throughly familiar (as it's commonly referred to) "The New York City Protocols" (hyperlink below)
Procedures that I follow:
1) When you smell mildew or obviously see mold or the Insured says the mold word. Contact the carrier for authorization to get a mold test. (Many of my carriers no longer require prior authorization, just advise them verbally or in writing of the test.) You need a CMRS (Certified Microbial Remediation Specialist) or an Industrial Hygienist (certified for mold testing). They
will conduct testing. Airborne Air-O-Cell tests and growth culture tests using peitre dishes with potato dextrose agar or blood agar as a growth medium. Airborne particle tests may or may not be done. The particle tests give both viable and non-viable counts. Control tests are conducted outside
the risk and then tests are conducted inside.
2) Once the tests are completed, the samples will be sent to a lab to be analyzed and the growth cultures grown. The growth samples take 7 to 10 days to grow. Most of the labs are now running extremely late. If the lab has a fee for
expediting their results, check with the carrier if they want to incur the additional lab fees.
3) The lab results are returned to the CMRS or IH, they will then produce a report as well as a remediation protocol. (If you have this report/protocol in 4-6 weeks from the date of testing, you're lucky.) This will be sent to you or the company. They are normally sent to me and I send them to the carrier. All of the carriers I am working for want a copy in the Insured's hands immediately. No one here wants to be accused of with holding anything from the Insured.
4) Once you have the report in hand with the remediation protocol. I hire a certified remediation contractor on behalf of the carrier (the reason being they (the carrier)want the work done). The carrier may or may not decide what remediation contractor they want to do the work. The remediation contractor then writes an estimate for the remediation work. Don't be surprised when the remediation
contractor's invoice comes in substantially higher than their initial estimate. You can not write a remediation scope/estimate.
5) Normally, the Insured's will have to vacate the premises before the remediation begins. Frequently the only thing they take with them is clothing and that needs to be professionally cleaned. We're putting Insured's in completely furnished corporate type apartments or houses. (Premium dollars are spent here. $2,200 to $2,500 per month for a two bedroom fully furnished with utilities to $3,500 per month for a 3 bedroom fully furnished with utilities. I have one Insured in a $6,000 per month fully furnished with utilitis, 5 bedroom house.)
6) Now comes the fun part a 2nd round of tests for clearance. (Another 4-6 weeks.) If it doesn't pass, the CMRS or IH does another remediation protocol. Followed by another clearance test, once the additional remediation work is completed.
7) No matter what you must have a clean clearance test. Interior fungi should be the same or within acceptable tolerances as the ambient control samples.
8) Once it passes, you can now write your repair scope and get an agreed price with the contractor of choice of the Insured. (Now we have a "normal" claim.
9) I can not stress enough: document, document, document, every call, meeting, and conversation. Remember everything is discoverable. Most of us treat every file as if it will go to trial. You want to CYA and the carriers.
10) There has been no medical link to any specific disease, illness or sickness to date, by the Center For Disease Control (CDC); the National Institutes of Health (NIH); the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); or Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
11) Guidelines for people who should not be exposed to mold are:
1) Infants under 12 months of age
2) People with respiratory problems
3) People with immune disorders
4) People who have recently undergone invasive surgery
12) "The New York City Department of Health Guidelines on Assessment and Remediation of Fungi in Indoor Environments" is the only definitive work I am aware of for guidelines on remediation. It can be obtained at
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/health
Hope this helps. |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2001 - 11:47 pm: | |
Yes, mold can create toxic, noxious gases. You may not be able to see it without removing a portion of the drywall/plaster. Spend the money and get the air quality and swab tests-only way you will ever know for sure and only the Certified Industrial Hegenist can settle the dilema. They can penetrate the wall. That is not the job of an adjuster. |
Sharlene Starner
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 11:55 pm: | |
Okay mold people. I saw one today that has me stumped. Usually we in Nevada are finding mold on uncaulked tub enclosures (maintenance) or on walls near leaking airconditioners. Usual mold smell. But today looked at a condo building that is claimed as "unliveable". Going in with my normal skeptical attitude I was amazed when this toxic odor-sharp and very bitter-hit me in the face. Immediately my eyes watered, skin burned, tongue, nose, throat burned. Couldn't breathe. Afterwards developed a headache, couldn't get the smell and taste out-my clothes reek of this stuff. I never smelled "mold" like this. I worked a tear gas claim that had a similar smell and effect so it feels like this is a toxic gas of some kind. This place had a mold remediation done but then this smell developed. Anybody know of a mold that does this? You couldn't stay in very long. Possible remediation technique could have caused it? Other thoughts I'm having is that this homeowner (the other condo-owners are also family members) decided they wanted out of this place and set off a canister of some kind of gas and got their attorney fooled??? Let me know if anyone has run into anything as severe as this. After doing floods and too many water losses to even count with the lovely smell of mold etched in my memory forever, I'm having a hard time believing this smell came from mold. Maybe out of a Stephen King novel but not in the real world. Yet could be wrong and this could be a gas that one of these now considered toxic molds could be creating. House has been locked up with no ventilation for two months. But owner says the smell came on gradually. Anybody ever involved with this type of thing-let me know.
Toxic molded Sharlene in Vegas |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 10:37 pm: | |
Mold has finaly arrived here in the great state of Alabama. The only problem is we do not know how to handle a mold claim. So I ask my brother and sisters in the business for HELP!!!!.
I've read all the articles but I can not find out how to handle a mold claim from start to finish.
Does anyone have anything that they can share.
1) Procedure manual or step by step instructions.
Any information would really help. We have Mold. What do we do now?
Thanks,
Alan L. Jackson
Lost without a clue in Alabama. |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 9:18 pm: | |
Good article at insure.com in the weekly update re mold and how the Texas DOI and the politicians are handling the issue. Makes for interesting reading espicially how the companies are reacting. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 8:11 pm: | |
Welcome to Hell or Houston, (depending on how you want to spell it), Constricted!
Now I don't want to tell you how to run your business, tho every contractor across the country is eager to tell me how to run mine. Your hired legal gun is right. Unless you personally want to certify a structure is mold free, you might want to go ahead and hire the outside consultants. Are they grossly overpriced? Of course they are! That's all part of the fun! And it's because they are putting their liability on the line in moldy ol' Houston. Ain't this brave new world great?
The fact that you have a legal mouthpiece already shows who the real winners in the Mold/Gold rush, it's the legal industry. What's that you say, what about the poor customer that just wants to go back and sleep in his/her own bedroom because their 20% ALE is running out? Or, even better, with a flood policy, the ALE is on their nickle. Well, that's just the breaks out here in the mold wars.
Yep, sounds to me like the contracting world is not the happy place it used to be. |
Constricted Constructor
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 6:22 pm: | |
Can any of you good folks update me on if, or if not, NFIP (or any other insurer) is paying for mold related losses caused by flood, and, if so, what the proceedure is and what is being restricted/approved?
I work with a very large group of Houston contractors and I am about ready to pull my increasingly graying hair out over all the inconsistent information I keep getting about whether mold claims will/won't be paid by NFIP and other insurers here.
I've been given at least a dozen different answers from adjusters on how and what HO carriers are accepting/denying regarding mold claims in Houston. I really appreciate the predicament you folks are in, but I've got to get my clients homes and businesses restored and give them their lives back.
At present, my hands are tied because I've been advised by legal counsel that if we proceed with demo on any structure where mold is discovered then we are thereby accepting liability for any and all ensuing property and health related damages. I don't know about you, but I don't have $32m laying around to throw to the wolves.
Second question is, does anyone know of any reasonable remediation specialists in the area that are competent and qualified to handle this stuff? I try my best to keep costs reasonable for my clients and their carriers, but these guys are outrageous! It's impossible for me to create a win/win/win for all of us when I've got these certified "specialists" jabbing an IV drip in both my veins right from the start.
Sorry to take up so much of your space, but I think everyone one concerned needs to pull together on this and find REASONABLE solutions. |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 2:23 pm: | |
Alan,
Try www.expressnews.com, or use keywords San Antonio Express.
Good Luck |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 2:03 pm: | |
Mr. Ghost:
Can you please post a link so that we may all read this great story? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 9:47 am: | |
One of the things that irritates folks in the other less civilized states about the GREAT STATE of TEXAS, (among others), is our penchant for calculated outrageous behavior.
Case in point can be found on page E-1 of todays San Antonio Express-News. (Banner headline) "Insurers scolded at mold hearing" , During a public hearing at Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi, State Senator Carlos Truan, D-Corpus Christi, set a stern tone on the debate over insured mold coverage. Truan called on the insurance industry to take some responsibilty for building practices that he claims have allowed an alarming increase in water-related mold damage claims. " It would be better to reduce claims by improving construction methods, not by blaming consumers of hysteria," Truan continued. "If you are in agreement with that, then we need to come together instead of attempting to run away from the responsibility we have to the people of Texas."
Don't ya see it? This is the public relations dog & pony show taking place in the back yard of the public adjuster who educated himself and got this Gold Rush started.
First we heap publicized damnation on the mean ol' greedy moneybags for the glorification of the politicians and some contrived sympathy for ol' Joe Lunchbox so we can get his vote come next election. After the public hearings, come the real nutcuttin sessions where the contest centers around the old saw wherein the 'The bigger the Buck$, the louder it Talk$'.
Yes, the mold wars are moving into a new arena. Oh, by the way, I also see that Progressive had started selling homeowners policies but quickly put those plans on a moratorium. (I think they have the best company cars in the business.) |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 3:01 pm: | |
Gale, maybe this gives new meaning to the term sunken living room. |
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 2:55 pm: | |
Well, Gale, if there is a way to build a house with a dirt floor on a concrete block foundation with a crawl space, the federal government will figure it out. Our tax dollars at work. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 2:15 pm: | |
How does one have both crawl space and dirt floors? This article is about $20 million in government housing that needs to be dozed due to mold.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010819/aponline120210_000.htm |
Noble R. Nash
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 4:41 pm: | |
Mold-infested house prompts suit. Indianapolis Star 8/12/01 Tree hit roof, The Big Hands folks and ServiceMaster are defendents. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 10:19 am: | |
True, all so true.
I have always loved free, tawdry spectacles and mold is a real doozy. Particularly the way the carriers are coming to grips with it. In this world where image is paramount and sound bites and photo ops reign supreme, for FIG to brazenly make this move is astounding. I have no doubt Big Red and Good Hands will follow suit in some manner. But, rest assured, this is all one huge gambit to either get the Great State of TEXAS to alter the consequential loss clause or, (even better), allow the carriers to file and write their own policies like in the other 49 less civilized states.
It seems to me that the spin doctors and public relations machines are not up to speed on this yet. Maybe they're still negotiating their contracts with both sides in this game.
(Since I am not off on a storm and I've run out of projects around the house, it appears I am hogging the entries here on the forum. I apologize.) |
Claimsranger1
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 9:03 am: | |
Ghoust, this is just an extension of what Farmers did in CA after Norhtridge. And SF after Andrew. I delivered, personally, 136 checks for $2500 to insureds for ALE, in the rain, 22 had no EQ coverage and I had to go back and get the money. 1 month later after they had "sorted it out". 20 gave it back. The other 2, well just spent it, and FIG just said let it go. I also paid nearly 700k in 20th Century checks that bounced because the 100M was gone in the first month. As you pointed out, bottom line is the bean counters. If it rains again in Houston, and this is just a Wag, this 4 billion,actually 6-8 billion in the real world, will have them all running because big H, that is where the real money is, that is where the folks in Austin turn to for $'s and that is where the law in this state is written from. PERIOD.! You know it, I know it and so does Linda! Hope to meet you someday and chop it up a bit. By the way, Linda, Welcome to the "Claimsrangers". You earned it!!!!!!!!! |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 8:37 am: | |
KA-BOOOM!!! It's like the opening shots on Ft. Sumter. That's right good buddy, the Big FIG has shown big time courage by halting the sale of new HOB, (all risk), policies on August 15. They will sell the HOA, (named peril), policy instead.
Three cheers and a grand huzzah! Our side is going on the offensive! And, believe it or not, Farmers is leading the way this time. Now we'll see how the Great State of Texas responds. |
David Houtz
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 7:33 am: | |
FYI:
Heard on the news last night the Farmers in Texas will quit writing water damage coverage for all new homeowner's policies written after 8-15-2001.
It is my understanding that this will not effect any renewals. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 11:22 pm: | |
How true Tom! Without those two things no money exchanges hands in the world. When we mentally got out of the business of "selling" PowerClaim but started providing "solutions" to the adjusting industry's problems it turned our sales efforts around. It is so easy to think more highly of one's services and products that we do the other party's problems. Once I got in my mind that 99% of the industry could care less what adjusting software they were using but were totally concerned with their "problem" it was easier to understand how costly egos could be. Wonder how much we all have paid for that mistake over the years. I have been reminded more than once that it is better to be part of the other party's solution than to be seen as part of their problem if we want them to freely transfer money from their bank to our bank. Wonder where the carriers see the adjuster in this mold issue? |
Tom Toll (Tom)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 2:26 pm: | |
Mistakes and problems are really only opportunities in disguise. |
Claimsranger
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 6:53 am: | |
GB, you make my day every time I read your posts! FYI, a recent chat with a person at the top of our food chain revealed that this is going to be a day rate of $700 for only 5 days a week! I generally thought we worked 7 days a week, at least I do in order to keep up with the paperwork they all want. And boys and girls they (carriers) figure a year minimum commitment and just figure on 3. I'm a Texan and as I mentioned, I'm from Houston and have family still there so I could park my 5th wheel at my mothers or sisters. The bills still go on 7 days a week, not just 5, and if you think it gets bad in Miami in the summer in one of those suits, try 107, 100% humidity all year long, people that just for the hell of it shoot you because you tried to cut in on the freeway. Go figure! Same for Beaumont, Port Arthur and Corpus which isn't quite so bad traffic wise. It was 110 degrees here in central Tx yesterday in the shade on my back porch. Just like Stonewall Jackson said "If they gave me Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas". Add it all up. A good ice storm in Quebec is starting to sound better than this is shaping up to be! |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 11:12 am: | |
Yes, Jim. But, from a historical perspective, we have all been exposed to truck loads of mold thru out our careers. For me, the effect is a slight to mild headache that is cured with a couple of asperins. My worst experience was about 15 years ago when I worked a theft claim in a french bakery where yeast was being used for bread production, and my allergies wonked me for about a week.
My point IS, are we overblowing this toxic mold frenzy? Whether here in humid and hot, south Texas or in the moist environs of North Carolina, all varieties of mold are always present for us to breath. AND, in our line of work, we are constantly exposed to super elevated levels and have always been. How many coroners reports on storm troopers show the cause of death to be from mold exposures? I would venture to opin that a lot more cause of storm troopers deaths come from smoking, stress heart attacks from IRS debt, and eating too much greasy road food from drive-in hamburger joints! (And don't any of you guys out there try to deny you haven't eaten more than your share of those .99 cent Hardees breakfast biscuits.)
On the other hand, if we did show up at the loss wearing HAZMAT masks and gear, would our fee bills get to be higher? More food for thought... |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 8:35 am: | |
Gale, that's a nice idea. :>)
The main point I was trying to make is that cat adjusters need to check with vendors before going on assignment to see whether they are covered for worker's compensation due to the magnitude of some of the illnesses which can be caused by molds and some of the other toxins we are exposed to constantly in adjusting disaster and flood claims.
If the vendor doesn't provide worker's comp coverage and you don't have your own medical AND disability insurance, then you better PRAY (for no illness or accident) IF YOU ARE GOING TO STAY.
If the vendor is not providing worker's comp and the adjuster does not have his own medical and disability insurance, then it might be more appropriate to decline to handle these potentially toxic mold claims. |
R.D. Hood (Dave)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 5:15 pm: | |
"GB" is onto something, and it is not pleasant. It may be in the best interests of the many policyholders and other "concerned parties" to look into the underlying reasoning for the carriers to deflect any actions with regard to the specific coverage issues.
This is not the time or place to discuss what is in the wind, but it may be more pleasant to live downwind from a pig farm, IYGMM. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 11:57 am: | |
Jim what would really put the icing on the cake is to have an assistant with you that dresses in white suit just to decontaminate you when you come out. Then after you are decontaminated then in turn you could decontaminate your assistant. You might not get many claims worked but you can bet the hotels would soon fill up with the families living in the ones you did inspect. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 10:07 am: | |
...Yeah but,...having gone thru HAZMAT training during a cold part of the year, you heat up and sweat like a race horse in those containment suits. And without a support crew to help, you can't hardly get in or out of them. I can't imagine going full tilt in say, Miami in August, in that kind of equipment.
Now onto the latest news, courtesy of the San Antonio Excrete-News. On the back page of todays Business section, this headline. "Insurer delays mold hearing", "Citing the current "uncertainty" over mold, State Farm Lloyds backed off a planned hearing before the state's insurance commissioner in Austin on its application to exclude mold damage and cracked foundations from homeowners policies."
"Mark Hanna, a spokesman for the Texas Dept of Insurance, which sets the benchmark rates, said State Farm had requested a hearing for July 24 but postponed it indefinitly because of the public controversy and uncertainty surrounding mold."
Or, as I see it, if the carriers can stick it to ol' Joe Lunchbox on his premiums without much of a squawk, why not? And if he does squawk, then let him buy a policy that does not cover the usual water losses at all. Which brings to mind the old crude colliquialism; Frig em, feed em fish heads! If they wanna play, they gotta PAY!
Is mine the only voice in the wilderness calling out for resoluteness and courage? Does the concept of public image overshadow the concept of being forthright and dynamic in dealing with mold? Could the Great American Expansion of the 1800's have occured with this mentality? |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 4:09 pm: | |
Can you imagine what the public reaction might well be if at the next large hurricane or flood event, that all cat adjusters knocked on the risk doors wearing face masks or respirators, white protective suits, and protective booties and announced to the insured that they were only being careful so as not to acquire a mold borne disease? Can you imagine what would happen to the projected damage cost for such a storm event given this scenario? Can you imagine what the carrier reaction would be? Can't you just envision the "photo ops" which the media will widely cover even as they salivate over this story? And, can't you just see the legal hawks swarming in droves over the damaged claims just waiting to alight on fresh mold kills?
It is time for cat adjusters to start thinking of protecting their own health from exposure to mold, micotoxins, bacteria and fungus from sewer back-up debris, and the myriad number of nasty diseases which can be picked up from exposure to bat droppings, bird excrement, and all the many other "nasties" that adjusters are exposed to regularly at these kinds of catastrophe events.
Having coined the phrase "know before you go" I am now suggesting that cat adjusters know whether the vendor they are called to work for provides for worker's compensation coverage before accepting a storm assignment. If the vendor is not providing this vital coverage for your health and safety, then perhaps the new phrase for you should be "Pray If You Are Going To Stay" UNLESS you have your own medical and disability insurance coverage.
Just something we all need to be thinking about for the storms ahead. |
Claimsranger
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 7:06 am: | |
I'm probably cutting my own throat with this but Jim Flynt asked earlier how a carrier could endorse this. I started thinking (not my long suit) and remembered Big Red's OL, "Ordinance of Law" endorsement they just sort of snuck in on every policy written or renewed. When I pointed out that most communities do not have a code certified inspector (I am one) I was promptly told to "Just keep your mouth shut". Outside of large cities, who knows what or how that wall was built or what is in it. Simi Valley is a prime example of measure the inside and then measure the outside and then go figure cause it just doesn't add up. Neither does this whole issue. Time to hit the books on learning about this stuff. Mold may be gold, IF, you know what to touch and how to touch it. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 9:41 am: | |
Now then...in todays edition of the San Antonio Exress-News, as the lead story of the business section, this headline. "Insurers want to raise rates" "They cite mold, flooding claims". AP- Austin- Insurers have requested an average 3.5 percent increase in standard rates for homeowners insurance in Texas, citing mounting losses from flooding in Houston and mold-related claims.
I gotta say this, the limp weinies are back to the same old stunts, just pass it on down the line! As usual, no guts and no glory, with only disdain coming from within and without. Let's just see how much ol' Joe Lunchbox can be squeezed this time.
In a way, one cannot help but admire the innovative vision and tenacity of that Public Adjuster, Mr Brock, down in Corpus Christi, for taking the consequential loss clause to these far reaching venues of profit at the cost to every one else. For him, Mold is truly Gold. And by going for rate increases to cover their sweet tokus, the carriers only further this Gold Rush! |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 9:28 pm: | |
Ok,
For how many years have we all crawled around in basements, crawl spaces, attics covered with bird and bat droppings (which will cause major lung and heart disease)??
Now mold is a major and not to be ignored issue. But is it because of the legal community finding a new area to pursue and as many of you put it a gold mine? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 6:33 pm: | |
Oh Yeah??? Our industry versus the Great State of Texas in an old fashioned, wild west style, Mexican Stand off? Where can I buy a ticket to see this spectacle? Will it be on pay per view?
Massa Flynt, now that the mob mentality has been loosed, any voices of reason will be lost like leaves in the wind...panic and over reaction is now the order of the day!
What I find hilarious is the adroit fear in the hearts of all the State Farm Natcat folks who have yet to be sent to the Big H, (Houston). I suspect that Houston will be to Natcat what Verdun was to the French Army in 1916.
Oh, my physical reaction to the mold from the losses I worked was minor headaches that I cured each night with Perin pills. That's right, Perin pills. (When you scrape off the A and S, what's left is PERIN!) |
kenneth wayne smith (Ksmith)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 12:13 pm: | |
re the mold coverage issues, i think that at least one major carrier is considering, if they haven't already done so by now, advising the tdi to the effect that either they will be allowed to write policies excluding the mold problem or they will pull out of the state. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 10:06 am: | |
Kevin, it would be of great interest as well as very interesting reading if you could share a cost breakdown of the component labor and materials for the $12,000.00 mold remediation for the 4' x 2' closet ceiling.
Could you please also advise us if more than one contractor estimate was requested or required.
Finally, at what level of insurance carrier management was the decision made to pay this claim based on the $12,000.00 sum?
I share the concern with many carriers that we are going to see a lot of overinflated estimates from adjusters either anxious to increase their fee billing, uneducated or ignorant of mold and mold remediation techniques and costs. or yet intimidated by unscrupulous remediation contractors, using "mold" as their justification in reporting.
It is important that we as adjusters educate ourselves, maintain our integrity and professional standards, and remain the voice of reason and calmness in what some would like to see as a rising storm in creating this controversy.
Consequential damages from mold is nothing new. It has been with us a long time. What is new, is the panic and irrationality which some seem to embrace in dealing with it.
Where are the voices of reason and restraint when we need them most, in this industry which yields most painfully to change? |
Jim Lakes
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 9:14 am: | |
Thanks Kevin,
The very first post on this issue by Ghostbuster, was, "Where's the Gold?"
I posted later stating that I felt that all of us would benefit through the fee schedules.You have proven my point.
You need not answer, but I'm sure the amount of your fee increased considerably for this one line item, as it should.
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
kevinkpt
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2001 - 6:58 pm: | |
Just paid $12,000 mold remediation for a patch of
mold on the ceiling of a 2'x4' closet. This is getting silly. |
Jim Lakes
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2001 - 11:38 am: | |
Could there be an endorsement?
Jim brings up a very good point and question. Can the insurance industry write an endorsement to exclude damages for “mold and mildew?” Very simply the answer is yes, HOWEVER, would the people, the courts, or anyone else let it stand. I think not.
I do feel though that there is a way to mitigate a lot of these type claims. If a policy endorsement is written that makes it mandatory on all water losses, that the insured must take immediate steps after a water loss to have emergency water extraction, drying, and anti-mold and mildew treatments completed. This could be authorized when the insured calls the claim in.
This of course opens up another big can of worms. This means that the insured has the right to tear out “what they think” is damaged, thereby possibly creating more damage than what was necessary to restore them back to pre-loss condition. It also does not answer the question, “what if the insured was away when the loss happened and came back two to three weeks after the loss occurred or flood waters that do not recede for a week or two.” The mold and mildew has already begun, depending upon the conditions.
Like Jim, I cannot imagine a clear answer to this question. It is inconceivable to me how the insurance industry can totally exclude this problem. It would be like excluding holes chopped in a roof or walls by a fireman to inspect for further fire or not paying for water damage to a ceiling below a room where the fire was above it. The coverage question is, “is it a direct result of the loss?” How is it not, unless it was pre-existing? Excluding it would be like excluding a house that had the roof blown off in a tornado or hurricane and later in the night it rained and further damaged the insured property. Is the water damage excluded? It’s the “Cause of the Loss, Stupid.”
As I stated earlier, I feel the best answer is for, us as the adjusters, to educate ourselves about this issue and have the knowledge to know that when we see mold and mildew whether it was a pre-existing condition or not. We will probably not make the final determination, but like “cause and origin,” if we, as experienced adjusters, think or suspect that this may have been a pre-existing condition, we can and will ask for an expert to evaluate it.
However, I still think that the only safety valve we have, is to educate ourselves, address the issue and document our files to reflect our findings in order to put the final determination as to resolution squarely in the lap of the carriers.
We would like to hear some thoughts from some of the other “old timers” and adjusters about this issue.
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Charles Crane
| | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2001 - 9:08 am: | |
I think that some carriers will establish a sublimit on mold damages, and the Insured could buy additional coverage increments by endorsement. Texas may well be the late, last state to allow this type of coverage change to any of the Homeowner Forms. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 11:38 pm: | |
While I have great respect for the previous posters on this timely topic, I do find the comments regarding future endorsements and riders to the policy to deal with the mold issue rather amusing.
Here's why:
Adjusters should think (from a coverage standpoint at least) of mold in the very same vein as they think of "collapse" under the property policies.
That is, mold, like collapse is the result of an underlying peril and not a "peril" under the policy in and of itself. Neither mold nor collapse is the "cause of loss" (under insurance definition). Mold occurs when there is contact exposure to water or moisture by a cellulose or other parent material which allows for mold growth. Absent either the moisture or parent material, the mold simply cannot grow and thrive.
Therefore, to endorse out the financial consequences and risk exposure to mold, one would have to endorse out the very consequences of the existing perils. Without eliminating several of the existing perils under an HO-1 or HO-2 policy, it would be of no consequence in realistically reducing the mold exposure borne by carriers.
To try and eliminate damages or consequential damages from existing perils would no doubt be met with fierce resistance not only by the regulators but by the consumer markets as well, as well as defeat the entire underlying concept of indemnity.
Would someone please enlighten me with even one suggestion as to how an insurance company could realistically eliminate their exposure to the mold problem by rider or endorsement. I really would like to hear a realistic idea which I have as of yet been unable to imagine. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 11:44 pm: | |
How nice they provide their staff with gear, and sent the independents into the trenchs with what? potective gear clear instructions and great pay, Don't ask me to chose between mold claims and flipping burgers. |
Rick Brooks
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 12:25 pm: | |
As I see it, very flood/water loss will have to be tested prior to mitigation and remediation of mold. Why, because the contractors and plumbers will not touch the walls with mold because of the liability of spreading the mold throughout the entire building. This has been my experience. As Nye has said the file will be open for months.
The mold test will include a recommendation of the remediation process and protocol for the contractor. Also, the remediation contractor should be certified to perform the remediation. How many contractors are certified, especially in Houston?
Do you believe the only way to protect us, as the adjuster, to to recommend a mold test when mold is visible or discovered?
Also, how do you estimate the cost of remediation of mold? My data base, Simsol, does not included the costs to remediate, such as suits, masks, bagging the mold invested material and proper disposal. |
Andrew Sloane
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2001 - 5:17 am: | |
Jim is absolutely correct, the carriers will shortly have an endorsement for mold. I was visiting with my file reviewer and chatting about this issue and lo and behold he went out to his car and showed me the tyvek suits, respirator, filters and goggles they had issued to him 6 months ago and then explained how they were all fitted and tested. 6 MONTHS AGO. So where does that leave us as independents. They know absolutely where all of this is going and if you have any idea of how Texas politics gets into the insurance industry here you need to think long and hard about the Houston storm and start practicing your courtroom behavior! Nuff said. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 7:30 pm: | |
HOW TO TAKE THE (GOLD) OUT OF MOLD!
JUST A OPINION
I have several friends who are both plaintiff and defense attorneys. The defense lawyers tell me if the underlying cause of the mold is covered, then the resulting mold damage and treatment of is covered. Pay to have the affected area exposed and treated. Show this on your estimate. Yes, ladies and gentleman of the jury, I allowed for treatment. See it is right here on my estimate.
Insureds have a duty to mitigate their damages. Take alot of good photos. We wouldn't want to see our insureds set idlely by and watch the mold grow.
My plaintiff lawyer buddies tell me how costly any mold claim will be to litigate. Expert's aren't cheap. Most of the plaintiff lawyers keep asking me what "THE SETTLEMENT VALUE OF THESE CLAIMS ARE." By paying for and allowing for treatment of mold in our estimates, we elimanate any BAD FAITH ISSUES. Thus, we take away the plaintiff lawyers goal of a big jury verdict.
This is a wide open area of the claims business. I can see where a good mold adjuster could name their own price. Document your files, take plenty of pictures and practice CYA.
We all have alot to learn about this subject. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 4:19 pm: | |
Ladies and Gentlemen,
As this issue continues to get more complicated and increase in intensity, I would like to make a few comments.
First, lets not forget whom we are working for! We work for the carriers and they dictate to us their policies and procedures and how to handle this issue. If they do not provide the guidance that we request, we must protect our interest at all times. Ignorance of the issue is NO excuse.
I agree with Russ Doe. Anytime there is water that has penetrated the walls, we MUST tear out those areas and treat for mold. Under the circumstances, with the “mold and mildew” issues coming to the forefront, we have to do what is prudent and precautious to protect ourselves. If the carriers do not agree with us or will not allow for this measure, we MUST document our files to reflect our belief that this is a mandatory process to eliminate this possible hazard. This is the only way that we, as independent adjusters can protect ourselves. No court in the land would hold us responsible if we recommended this process to the carrier and they rejected it.
I have stated for two years that this issue was going to be bigger than the asbestos problem. However, with this issue, I feel that there is a lot more responsibility that is laid on our shoulders and a lot greater risk of liability to us, if we do not recognize and educate ourselves to the ramifications of not dealing with it, when we are adjusting these type claims. It’s our job. If we do not, we will find our names listed as defendants and if we have not documented our files or done our jobs properly we stand to loose everything.
Search, read, and learn all you can about this issue and be sure to document each and every file you handle that may have this problem, before it is to late.
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 2:26 pm: | |
I agree to some extent but just surface spraying doesn't zap what it doesn't touch. Better to take the drywall out at 4ft and let studs also be sprayed with mildecide then sealed. Wood studs are cellulose and a happy home for molds. I have had some sewer/drain claims here in Wisconsin where all the drywall had to be remove. When removed at 4 ft the insulation was still dripping. Drywall R/R is truly an ounce of prevention vs. a pound of cure later. Don't blink, don't hesitate, just get it out.
If we remove an area of drywall and there is mold, then we have just made the spores airborne by disturbing it.
How much investigation should we do when we are not inspecting for "mold" specifically? How liable are we if we don't inspect for everythingunder the sun? I think those answers will come with future court decisions and I don't want to be part of the first. Russ, ask someone near and dear to you what she thinks the liabilities are for you as an adjuster.
If you pay the insured for removing it and they choose not to do so, then the entire game is back in their park, not ours and I believe we have covered ourselves. If we don't, then I personally believe we have left ourselves wide open. |
Russ doe
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 6:23 pm: | |
Most carriers are not giving "us" Adjusters much
info or guidance on mold.I have a lot of claims with 2'of water and are not concerned because we
cover mildewcide and germicide.I was very fortunate to only have a few with 1/2" of water.But,because of all the mold coverage here, I told them to open the walls in a few areas so we can find out if in fact there was mold growing in the walls.Folks, there was mold up 4" on the back of the drywall.It wasnt everywhere. It seemed to be growing away from the walls that had a lot of sun.I'm not sure what our liability would be in a claim that was reopened due to mold?If you have a doubt and are only replacing baseboards, it might be a good idea to remove a little drywall to see whats growing! Please get with your Storm Manager for guidance and DOCUMENT
YOUR FILE!!! Have a great day!! Russ |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 10:38 am: | |
Andrew history does bear out the fact that in every “gold rush” there are many that “go for the gold” that get broken or worse in the process. I am thinking about the CA and AK gold rushes in particular. As in both of those periods some made more money supporting the gold diggers at inflated prices than did the diggers of the gold make themselves.
I expect we will be seeing “mold” riders being sold by the carriers shortly with new coverage just like you have for earthquake and the like. The carriers can’t take this kind of risk without more money and stay healthy.
The health risk for the adjusters will become better understood and dealt with in a proper manner so that they are not crippled or worse. In the mean time it will be a steep learning curve for many because so few know the true health concerns or the costs involved in dealing with mold.
I predict with the lawyers getting involved there will be a “knee jerk” reaction by all parties involved.
We may see some egos extracting a high price from their owners. |
Andrew Sloane
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2001 - 3:03 am: | |
Folks, I'm no rocket scientist and after talking to a friend of mine in Houston working the "Mess" he has a slug of claims, not one single file closed, has a "Rash" and some kind of respiratory thing from just touching some of the mold on a wall there. Now figure this, 100 degree heat, 100% humidity everyday, skeeters the size of buzzards by the billions according to Houston TV, roads and traffic that make LA look like a sunday drive in the country, absolute one year minimum commitment, a Texas legislature with a big stick and the largest law firm in the world "Taking a look at the situation". Go figure, you can't spend it if your dead! And I am from Houston, that's why I moved. IMHO |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2001 - 5:30 pm: | |
Jim Lakes is absolutely right, Bill Cook is a first class adjuster, PA or no PA. In fact, I am having the unique yet wonderful experience of working with Bill right now on a mold claim here in North Carolina on the same team with him.
Bill recently was one of the very first adjusters in the United States to pass a rigorous exam and seminar as a Certified Mold Remediation Consultant.
He has a lot of knowledge to share for those who would seek to advance their claims knowledge, and most especially in this newest area of mold claims. |
Jim Lakes
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2001 - 9:28 am: | |
Bill,
It was a pleasure meeting you at the FWUA Conference last week.
We would like to relay to all who read Bill’s posts that he is truly a gentleman and a true adjuster. We all know that there are bad adjusters as well as good ones, just as there are bad PA’s as well as good ones. Bill is one of the “good ones.” I would be happy to work with him on the other side of any claim.
We appreciate him sharing his knowledge and experience with us. He has informed us that he is studying the “mold and mildew” issue and I am happy that he is willing to share with us his education on this issue. Keep up the good work and on my behalf, please feel free to enlighten us anytime that you feel you have something of interest to offer.
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
R.D. Hood (Dave)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 11:27 pm: | |
These appropriate and truthful warnings are to be heeded, by ANYONE, who intends to inspect, diagnose, remediate, treat, estimate or in any way subject themselves to mold spores, or the active molds.
In Michigan, in January, there was a school that had a standalone classroom which suffered water damage from an Ice dam condition. Upon entering the structure,(which was occupied by students and teachers), the impact of the mold was like getting hit by a Mike Tyson heavyweight in the solar plexus.
Needless to say, before it was inspected, a HEPA filter, ear plugs, and boots were donned. And after some serious discussion, the mold test was allowed, and guess what, they had it all.
Be very, very cautious on these flood losses. Mold spores remain behind many times, as Mr. Cook stated, and are activated by moisture.
This topic must be addressed more fully,and in the interim, here is a web site that will rock your boat.
http://www.stachybotrys.net/ |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 9:54 pm: | |
An additional word of caution regarding the effects of mold contaminated property to human exposure. Many of the health issues reside in the aftereffects of the mycotoxins that are the residual portions of a mold infestation. If the insured property ever had a persistent water problem that allowed mold to grow and the mold and water problem was later cured, the dried up remains of the mycotoxins and spoor stems are major hazards to persons that disturb them without proper personal safety protection.
Many people think that if it is not the black mold it is not a health hazard. Toxicologist have indicated that the aspergillus and penicillium molds have an equal propensity for harm and are found more often than the stachybotrys atra. One adjuster was sued by the homeowner when he pulled away a large section of drywall that was contaminated on the reverse and allowed the molds to spread to other areas of the home. Not all people are adversely effected by the exposure to the mold or mycotoxins according to the EPA, you could be one of the lucky ones.
Care should be exercised if there is any possibility to exposure to any of the mold family or their byproducts. The biohazards should also be addressed with the same concerns for health and all exposure minimized when and wherever possible by avoidance or the use of minimum personal protection gear.
William S. Cook
Public Adjuster |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 5:30 pm: | |
Tom is correct. Mold is not gold. Mold is harmful to those particularily allergic to it or with suppressed immune system or undeveloped, as is the case with small children. For the rest of us, there is no way of knowing. Remember asbestos and DDT?? I do. I disagree that the companies will get burned. They will only "get burned" if we, as adjusters, stump our toes and mishandle a claim or they, as carriers, are penny wise and pound foolish. I personally don't think the carriers will pay to have a mold test done on every water loss. I agree that one should be one but doubt that it will be done. You can't close a file without all the documentation and the lag time for reports could become cost prohibitive. Are we, as adjusters, going to stay at storm site until all the documentation is in? No, we can't afford to at the current pay scales. Will there be special "clean up crews" to handle that particular documentation? Who knows at this point? There are still far too many unknowns but possibly the greatest of these is what will it do to an adjuster's health? now or 5 or 10 years down the road? Again, no one knows. Will we scare the bejesus out of the insureds if we truly protect ourselves with masks and Tyvex suits and protective foot coverings? (If we don't, we could be carrying it right back to our hotel rooms, our homes and the homes of others.) Probably, but are we willing to take the risks if we don't? Each of us must answer that for ourselves. My answer and yours may be totally different. For all the advances our great country has made--the simple truth is no one truly knows. |
Tom Toll (Tom)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 3:35 pm: | |
No question that mold will be a long term project because the attorneys have found an additional revenue source. Since the Texas decision, it will get progressive as word spreads throughtout the legal profession. Here is an excellent site on mold:
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/moldresources.html
There is an infinite amount of educational material on mold, clean up and remediation at this site.
We had best prepare ourselves if a hurricane hits this year. There will be many new mold experts out there in the form of attorneys, public adjusters, contractors and General contractors. Every report sent to the respective insurance company should contain a request for mold inspection, particulary if water has intruded into the attic, wall cavities, and carpet. Even though mold is always present in a home or commercial building, the more moisture presented to the right place in a dwelling or commercial building can be the beginning of an acute mold problem. I too, since Andrew, have a lung problem because of mold presence. When I am near mold infestation, I begin to cough very badly. Like Dave Hood, I have the appropriate respirator to protect what lung capacity I have left. I, like many others, feel that the companies are going to get burned badly before the mold problem is resolved. Mold is not Gold, it is harmful to your health. |
David G. Dye (Davidgdye)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 12:36 am: | |
Harold:
Let me assure you everyone from the CO. to the adjuster, to the CMRS, to the emediation Contractor, to the General contractor (and all their attorneys) are running scared; me included.
If my pockets were deep enough, I think I'd blow off day rate, for the hourly.
If you get involved, make sure you have adequate E&O coverage - I'd recommend 10 mlllion. Yes 10 million. Remember the TX courts here in Travis County just awarded 34 million against Farmer's to the couple here in Dripping Springs.
I personally believe this will "only" amount to 7-10 milion dollar exposure.
I'm told in the People Magazine due out 07/01/01, there is a wealth of information. |
HSmith
| | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 10:33 pm: | |
Dave, I can see why they are calling the assignment "long term". This one, that I inquired about, is a daily rate which may or may not work out better than billable hours. It seems to me that MOLD claims could be a volatile area and one should be sure his E&O is in place. |
David G. Dye (Davidgdye)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 8:19 pm: | |
I am working in Austin doing Branch Assist. I've been here for almost two months. "Mold Is It Gold", I'm not sure, as of this moment I have twenty two open mold claims, the first one has been open for six weeks. Unless we agree to bulldoze it, it'll be open for six months - minimum. The carrier has already told me and the branch manager I can't leave until it's concluded. On the upside, I should have at least 300 billable hours (just under $13,000.00 to me).
The other 21 files, I figure with luck to close them in less than four months.
The 22nd one I looked at today. I can have a CMRS next Saturday with luck.
The HO carriers (major) I'm working for have taken the position, if an underlying covered cause of loss brings about the mold, it's covered.
(Up to policy limits.)
From the time you first look at the loss and report it back, and get a CMRS, the lab results and a report 3-4 weeks have elapsed. Once you have the remediation protocol you're looking at 4 more weeks - minimum, if the remediation contractor can begin immediately. ALE normally begins with remediation. Before reconstruction begins, another mold report to give the risk a clean bill of health 3-4 more weeks. If you get a clean bill of health reconstruction can begin. If not, back to square one.
I believe there's money in it, but be prepared to wait and be on location for a long while. |
HSmith
| | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 7:49 pm: | |
A recent E-mail from a vendor inquired whether I might be interested in a long term assignment doing MOLD claims, in Texas. I was curious even though I'm doing something else.
All they would tell me is that the work is for a large homeowners client and the many MOLD claims were the result of Allison's rains.
Does anyone know about this/ Are homeowners carriers following up after NFIP. Or, are they handling claims for folks who had no flood insurance?
Does a homeowner get more claims conscious when the adjuster shows up in a mask and protective clothing?
Anybody involved in this? |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 2:38 pm: | |
"Toxic mold" is making news again, and it's sure to scare a lot of people, including insurance industry executives.”
“And the concern keeps spreading. Farmers, which gets more than two-thirds of its mold claims from Texas, is projecting nearly a five-fold increase in its residential claims for mold damage this year, costing the company about $85 million.”
"We're at a stage with mold that's where we were with tobacco 50 years ago," said David Straus, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center.
For the article today the following link is active (20 May 01) Depending how this case goes down may become the “law” on mold.
http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/today/news_4.html |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 10:34 pm: | |
Prism had mold classes for their contractors last week in Las Vegas. We had a meeting that conflicted with the session but other speakers were complaining that the Mold session took their audiences. By that I gathered Crawford was putting an emphasis on the subject this year. |
Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 1:09 pm: | |
Ghost ! Certain molds contain myotoxins, you could go into business removing these molds for free, remove the myotoxins and sell them to Sadam Hussain. This is what he used in his bioterrorism bombs on the Kurds in 1992. Aside from this, Jim Lakes has probably hit the nail on the head. Make your money they old fashioned way.
The Duck of Death |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 11:44 am: | |
So, the gist of it is, an increased fee bill is the only, (?), way to make mold into gold for us? Any other ways you folks out there can think of?
I know that with this lovely round of storms on Fri & Sat that work may well obviate this thread, along with the carriers scrambling to rewrite policies and strong arm state legislators. But, still a gold rush is always a thing of beauty to behold. Until that is, the gold pans out. Case in point, the dot. coms. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 8:52 pm: | |
CASE IN POINT
For those who don’t believe that the “Mold and Mildew” issue is heating up, just this past week here in Chicago (4) schools were shut down indefinitely due to the fact that mold and mildew was found in the walls of these four schools.
Children and teachers were coming down with headaches and coughing spells. It is not known at this time if it is a proven fact, that it was caused by the mold and mildew, but the health authorities believe this to be the case. These cases were not caused because of any water loss, just old buildings and a lot of humidity.
As we have been saying, we believe that this issue will be the next “asbestos” catastrophe, except we think it will be much larger and will effect ever water damage claim that we handle.
STAY TUNED!!
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc. |
Lee Mushaney (Red)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 11:42 pm: | |
case and point I have a flood loss in LA. The
total repairs to the building from flood was
$7,000 the insured had a mold person out and the
bill to remove mold was $18,500. Oh yeah I was
coughing but it wasn't severe which tells me the
mold was a minor problem otherwise I would have had an coughing attack |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 4:00 pm: | |
Alan, this thread has to do with mold being a covered peril due to the consequential loss clause. Where a non excluded peril, (usually water in its various forms), causes a loss and mold then manifests itself, then the mold becomes part of the loss.
The mind blower now is that the mold removal now so far out strips the loss that it's not funny anymore. What used to be a single room of carpet now is a gutted house or even possibly a scrape the slab and start over. If a Certified Industrial Hygienist won't sign off on the job, then tear out some more.
That's why for some lucky souls out there, Mold is Gold! |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 2:59 pm: | |
What mold are you guys talking about? I think I'm missing something. I have always figured to treat and address mold and other water damage when I write a estimate.
I have to be missing something about all this. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 1:52 pm: | |
The only thing that's getting mouldy is the cat adjusters. Another year of none starters, standbys and then goodbyes. Seems the only people working are those doing FIG branch assignments, whatever that strange situation is about. Anyone have a recipe for making burgers out of paper (all the invites to big red training I have. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:45 pm: | |
Lee makes a good point. Unless you are a Texas Democrat, if you're dead, you can't spend the money! ( For those non-Texans, Democrat dead are very active in the community. They vote, get mail, apply for free high limit credit cards, and all manner of things. The Republican dead, however, are a lazy bunch. They just lay around in the grave all day doing nothing!)
And on the rumor mill, I now learn that Big Red is telling it's kids to let it slip to the Insureds that come next policy renewal, that mold will be excluded except by a very expensive endorsement.
Now it looks like the moldy goldy rush may end before it gets really rolling. In a way, it is kind of a pity to see it end. If the carriers start to ACT instead of REACT to events that pop up like this, how will the ingenious pirates out there be able to buy their girl friends new cars each year? |
Lee Mushaney (Red)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 12:51 am: | |
This Is just a little advise for all adjusters out there. I use to have no alergies and no breathing problems. After years of dealing with mold mildew and getting to close to a bad kind, I now have an alergy to mold and
mildew. When I walk into a house that has any mold or mildew I immediately start coughing and have to ask the insured to open the doors and windows. I have been advised by Drs to wear a mask. Not just any type of mask but the mask Dr's use when dealing with someone that has TB as that is also airbourne those mask have the best filtering. They can be obtained from most medical supply stores. Making money won't make any difference if you can't breathe or will never breathe again. You just never know when you will come in contact with it until you have already done it and then you will immediately feel it. |
mike stephenson (Photoadjuster)
| | Posted on Monday, April 02, 2001 - 10:09 pm: | |
The below is reposted without permission. I hope they don't mind.
Mike Stephenson
Proclaim Software
Truth Told on Toxic Mold
by John D. Wagner
Mold is a tenacious, unwelcome house guest. It climbs up bathroom walls, invades carpet and infests drywall. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta, six varieties of household mold are common, and three can produce toxins. The CDC linked one of them, stachybotrys atra, to 10 cases of lung disorder in infants five years ago and 100 cases since. Unfortunately, it's impossible for homeowners to distinguish between toxic and the benign molds - they all look like black or gray sooty patches.
Are toxic molds something to be alarmed about? "No," says Carol Johnson, an epidemiologist with the CDC. "You should be concerned, but not panicked. All molds, even the toxic-causing ones, can be cleaned up by the homeowner with a mild bleach solution if they exist in small quantities." In fact, most people never realize that toxic molds are present in their home because they clean them up before they have a chance to grow big enough to present a hazard.
No matter what type of mold is in your home, your safety depends on the size of the infestation. If there's a black mass more than 2 ft. sq., or if the mold has gotten into the carpet, insulation or drywall, remove these materials and reduce incoming moisture before replacing them. Or, contact a mold-abatement expert; look in the yellow pages under "Flood Damage" or "Asbestos Removal."
If the infestation is a small patch, use a chlorine-bleach solution (1 cup of bleach in 1 gal. of water) and scrub the mold; wear eye protection and a respirator with carbon filters. Never scrape dry mold; that sends potentially toxin-carrying spores flying.
For more on cleaning up mold and mold types, visit www.envirovillage.com/library/papers (set up by indoor-air-quality consultants), or check out the CDC site at www.cdc.gov. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2001 - 4:22 pm: | |
Ghostbuster and All,
The answer is in the pudding!
If you adjust the claim the damages for the tear out and replacement of all that needs done “as a result” of the mold is in the fee schedule or T & E in your adjustment of the claim.
One thing for sure is that “IF” you as the adjuster do not recognize the possibilities of the mold and do not address it in your report to the client and then six months later the issue opens up, you better have good E & O insurance. Linda makes this point in her post.
I brought this issue up several months ago, and the fact that I feel it is going to be the next “asbestos” issue. We think that it will be even larger, since any loss that has water damage, the “mold and mildew” issue would affect the complete claim and there is no way to prevent it from happening. We are aware of several people that have this issue going on today.
It is going to be a topic of increasing alarm. We suggest that all of us make every attempt to learn about this damage and be aware of it on every claim that we handle that has water damage causes. Example: One of our adjusters just handled a water damage claim here in Chicago that the actual water damage was $65,000 and after the “mold and mildew” issue was addressed the house was leveled and the carrier paid $263,000. The fee schedule was much greater for the latter amount.
Jim Lakes
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2001 - 12:55 pm: | |
Safe Sex! Safe Driving! Safe Adjusting!
Folks, all that will do us not one bit of good unless we can figure out a way to make a profit out of mold!
C'mon! Think MONEY! |
RUSSELL E. DOE (Rdoe)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2001 - 12:37 pm: | |
Well said Linda. Until the Convention and Dave Hood's Tools of the trade class, I would never have thought to carry a filtered breathing device because of all the nasty places we go to handle claims (especially floods). I dont think there is any doubt that MOLD , S.B.S (Sick Building Syndrome), and other time element claims are definitely in some Adjusters future. We need to be educated on ways to protect ourselves in these situations. If anyone has any information how we protect ourselves please post it or email me and I will start compile all the info I can. Work safe and have a great day!!! Russ |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2001 - 3:27 am: | |
I believe the case in point was due to an adjuster trying to save company $$ by not tearing out a very expensive exotic parquet floor that had water damage as a result of a leak from a pipe in the wall but rather to repair the wall and wait for the floor to dry then refinish it. Unfortunately, the mold had found a cozy home beneath the floor as well as in the wall. Apparently the adjuster was being penny wise and pound foolish.
According to one of the investigators, the second adjuster using what he thought to be reasonable care is now partially deaf due to the exposure he received while in the risk less than 20 minutes.
I agree with your opinion that a homeowner's delayed or misdirected action would preclude coverages but consider that some of these molds, particularly the cellulose feeders can appear within 24-48 hours given a favorable environment, how would anyone ever know when it actually began as a result of the water damage.
The loss is not caused by the mold, it is caused by the water damage.
I feel there are some questions we must ask ourselves, are we properly equipped to handle such a loss and are we willing to suffer the consequences if we aren't. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 7:40 pm: | |
I try to make a living by recycling the paper sent to me to invite me to big red training. i buys a few burgers. The only thing moldy here is my adjusting skills sigh. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 5:49 pm: | |
All well and good, but...Where's the MONEY, Honey?
Or, more importantly, where is the venue for us to get a piece of the action? Who is making the Big Bucks? Is it the CIH's ( Certified Industrial Hygenists)? Is it the certified abatement contractors? Is it the engineering firms that make the scope of repairs? Is the (Boooo!) Public Adjusting industry in on this?
Since the storm trooping business has died and no carrier has come forth with an appreciation pension for us, I'm ready to grasp at any ol' straw.
Is there any gold in mold for us? |
Christian Coggin IV (Christian)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 3:21 pm: | |
There is a claim in Orleans Parish that was a result of the January 23, 2000 hail wherein the insured suffered heavy water damage as a result of high wind and hail............After 7 months
the judge told Steak Farm and or Allsnake to "tear the sucker to the ground," guess the EPA people will not condemn the empty lot, recently saw a: (For sale for $50,000.00) on their graded lot, the rest of the house was hauled 15 miles offshore and pushed off the side of the barge, and guess what they even paid for the space suits for the enviromental garbage men..............
Lot's of fees for appraisals and adjustments, heard through the coffee table that Serve Pro, Service Master was gearing up for 1 million per month in claims in N.O. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 2:11 pm: | |
Which came first the chicken or the egg and can we find a way to date mold. If there was a leak and later mold is found, and the insured took reasonable steps to clean up, would that exclusion apply. I can guess what a judge would say. Thank heavens we never see an adjuster take short cuts in water damage claims. Horace I understand you point but just maybe it's not quite that black and white. |
Horace Smith (Hsmith)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 1:11 pm: | |
There is a lengthy, detailed article on this subject beginning on page 38 of the August, 2000 edition of Claims magazine. The title is, "Mold and Mildew: A Creeping Catastrophe".
The authors are Everette Herndon and Chin Yang.
Herndon, a member of the California Bar is a claims consultant and serves as an expert witness in bad faith cases. Yang has a PhD and runs a company that works with health professionals on microbiology related problems in buildings.
Both, I would say, will gain financially if this problem really takes off. The article is well worth reading although I do not necessarily agree
with it's conclusions.
First, the article cites a Texas case where a policyholder has filed a criminal complaint and a $100 million civil case against their insurance
carrier for not timely and properly handling a water damage claim with the allegation that the home is now uninhabitable.
This, of course is a tort, third party, negligence
action and in additon to seeking damages for the property, the insured occupants are seeking regress for their illnesses caused by the mold, etc.
The article then jumps to finding conclusions with respect to the first party, homeowner's
policy, coverage. The authors state that if the mildew or mold preexists the current water event
(the subject of the claim) there is no coverage.
However, if the mildew or mold is the result of the current event, there is coverage and woe to the adjuster, carrier or contractor who does not address and remedy this area.
We all know that mishandled claims can cause liability, and E & O problems, and in some instances bad faith issues and punitive damages.
Just what, though, is a mishandled claim? The insurance contract still says that the carrier will only pay for "DIRECT" loss.
The insurance contract still contains an exclusion as follows: We do not insure, however, for loss: 2. Caused by: e. any of the following: (3) Smog,rust or other corrosion, MOLD, wet or dry rot.
The caps above are mine.
Take a situation where a pipe bursts and the floors are saturated. The Insured knows he has a $1,000 deductible so he attempts to clean things up, himself. Three weeks later he notices mildew in his closets and decides to report the matter to his agent. Within 24 hours of the report the adjuster arrives. Is the carrier responsible for the mold and mildew?
My view: I'm sorry Mr. Jones but as you see here in your HO-3 form, we insure for direct loss only. And there is a specific exclusion against mold and rot. This mildew and mold could cause you and your family problems, however, and I would urge you to get it eradicated promptly."
Nevertheless, if the carrier or supervising vendor, issues instructions to appraise the mold, mildew damage, it will be appraised. |
Justin Duckworth (Justducky)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 10:19 am: | |
To answer your question Ghostbuster, the carriers are forming Mold Crews to handle any claim with mold. This is because the dangerous mold(s) or stachi batrus mold is just one of over 50 different types that manifest after a water related loss. They are trying to handle these losses with staff adjusters that have special mold training. Two of the major carriers have mold training classes going on today and for the next two weeks for their staff crews. Independent Adjusters who encounter mold are instructed to return the file to the office to be handled by the staff crew. Apparently the vendors have not snapped to the mold facts because they have not initiated any training requirements for IA's.
As to how long this will last, probably forever, or until the carriers add this to the exclusion list of their policies, which is something that I am sure will happen in the immediate future. Probably will be a special mold endorsement in the near future that we will have to deal with. As to the home office honchos, the **it is running down their legs as we speak about this problem, which by the way is only going to get worse.
The Duck of Death |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 10:54 pm: | |
In the past few months, the phenomenon of mold as a covered biohazard loss under the consequential loss clause has exploded like an H-Bomb. A friend and Great American leaked into my grimy little paws an engineering report with scope of repairs to a water loss that in the recent past could not have exceeded one room of carpet. This thing is for a gut job of 85% of the interior walls and ceiling and the entire HVAC. And that's just Coverage A. (I won't get into the contents or ALE just now.)
My friends, the herd of carriers are running scared on this one. The payouts incurred on these things even boggles my jaded sensebilities. We used to laugh at these, but it looks like the laugh is on us now.
I have these questions:
1) Who is making the money on this mold (gold?) rush?
2) How can we adjusters get in on the gravy train?
3) How long will this mother lode last? I've never known these things to last very long.
4) Are the honchos at the home offices sitting on their thumbs or are they going to get tough and head this off at the pass?
I am flat-dab serious on this, lil pardners, there is some enormous money being spent out there. And I want in on it, do you? |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 7:14 pm: | |
For the decisions, please go to the Texas Department of Insurance site:
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us
These endorsements are rolling out on Jan. 1, 2002. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 5:10 pm: | |
Would someone on a mold crew give us the true scoop about what is going on in Texas? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 3:36 pm: | |
I contend that those lucky souls on the Big Name mold crews have the best deal in town AT THIS POINT in the space/time continium. Which is to say, compared to those blessed with no work.
Some folks have landed on mold crews in their own towns and are snoring in their wives ear each night. (This could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on ones viewpoint.)
For the rest of us, for every soul on a long term mold crew, the next storm assignment will increase our odds of being called out. But, I'd jump to take a mold assignment. Hey, I'm as fickle as the next guy. |
Kile Anderson (Kileanderson)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 1:10 pm: | |
WOW! $11,867 a month. Not bad when you compare it to what I got last month, which was $0. Sign me up. I can handle a little mold in exchange for a regular pay check. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:48 am: | |
...versus $3750/month for some betrodden staff flunky. Or, how about $1005/month driving the truck at Suckorama Septic Service while waiting for a call out?
Or, is my perspective askew? |
Darryl Martin (Darryl)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 11:18 am: | |
FYI
Mold pay for major carrier is $700 per day, 6 days per week. 8-5 or $700 x 65% = $455.00 x 313 days = $142,415 per year / 12 = $11,867.92 per month. Normal day rate for same carrier is $650 per day, 7 days per week, 12 hours per day or $650 x 65% = $422.50 x 365 = $154,212.50 per year / 12 months = $12,851.04 per month.
As Joe Friday would say, "just the facts, nothing but the facts"---for those who remember who Joe Friday was. |
Claimsranger
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 8:04 am: | |
I guess I will go ahead and toss my 2 cents worth in here since it seems like an appropriate time to do so. Especially since Jose made his grandstand play. I'm on a mold crew in the Beaumont, Tx area. Folks, we have the Pilot boys, RJMW, Crawford and staff here. Some have ben here 4 months now. I got here the 26th on a year commitment. Linda is right, the pay is just about the same as cleanup, but so is the Ghoust. With my Houdini slight of hand, I'll gross right near 140K for the year.The plus side is I am only 4hrs from home, no upstate MN, MI, NY-WTC (My sincerest Prayers for Claude and his Family) and since I love to fish, I have Sundays off to do it! On to business. This is a whole new game! There aint no school for it and there aint no rules! PERIOD! Sorta like Northridge with a twist. That being said, there aint no youngsters here either! And like Ghoust said it just sticks in my craw when the CONmisssioner says we are not handling these claims properly! Big surprise pendejo, you D_ _ n sure aren't gonna suit up and walk into a cocktailed room. We are paying them if we owe it and denying them when it is not covered. It is called ADJUSTING the Loss!!! This is REAL Adjusting a claim. Not appraisals or estimates for test squares and siding and a few interior repairs, but full Adjustments of the claim. Golly damn its good to be back as a PROFESSIONAL CAT ADJUSTER! Look to see a new policy pop up around 02/2002 - an HOW. Sort of prophetic that name isn't it. This will all change again once some money changes hands at the annual Christmas party/Bar-B-Q as campaign contributions. Texas politics being what they are, So is mold Gold? NO, it's silver. I need to get to work so I'll keep ya posted. Linda I will call you this weekend, and Ghoust, you keep me posted. |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 4:42 am: | |
Mullah Montemayor. DallyBan.
Has a nice ring to it doesn't it? |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 11:10 pm: | |
Well, Linda, all I know is that the folks with Pilot, Eberl's, and others other than Crawford are getting $455/day, 6 days a week, 8-5 on the State Farm mold crews. With a one year commitment the numbers exceed $140,000. Not to mention some slight of hand on taxes with the per diem schedule. This ain't chump change, considering it is a time game, not a volume game.
Naturally, the other lesser carriers will operate in their own unique fashion.
On to our boy Jose. I've read your post several times but it sticks in my craw. I refer to the passage bad mouthing of the insurance companies not handling the claims properly. Just who the HELL does he think he is? Did anyone out there see him sniffing thru the furry walled bathroom of a loss? Was he there in the Travis County courtroom when the Big FIG got skewered? I've got lots of confusion over this palavering.
But, all in all, it's not a bad return shot against the bad ol' carriers. Now, it's the turn of Big Red and Big Blue to lay the smack down by following the lead of the Big FIG. By doing so publicly, it could lead to an emergency call session of the legislature, thereby getting Jose off the hook. This could be the inspiration for a new Broadway musical by Larry McMurtry along the lines of 'The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas'. |
TomS
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 8:44 pm: | |
I keep hearing from people,(who are working these claims) of problems, late payroll checks, claims quite a distance, other various complaints, that are not just the regular "cat" adjusters 'bitches', but legit complaints.
I just wonder if the "GOLD" in the "MOLD" is going to be GOLD PLATED. A lot of work, for little money, if any, and other situations.
I am not casting aspersions, just some food for thought.
Is anyone else out there actually working these claims, for what carrier, vendor, what is the claims file requirements,etc, and the pay.
Just an overview, please, do not commit yourself to trouble, but explain, IF, you are working these mold claims.
I thank you, and I am sure others will once the "facts" are revealed. |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 5:13 pm: | |
Well, folks, it appears our Insurance Commissioner here in the great state of Texas has finally made his decision. It is quite lengthy but here's the meat of the matter:
ontemayor Protects Consumer Choice, Availability of Mold Coverage
November 28, 2001
Commissioner Jose Montemayor today restructured the state's residential property policies to stress consumer choice on mold-related insurance coverage while helping Texas avoid a residential property insurance availability and affordability crisis.
"This decision is a common-sense, middle ground approach," Montemayor said. "It gives Texas homeowners basic protection plus the ability to purchase additional coverage if they so choose. This decision protects consumer choice and insurance availability, and addresses insurance cost drivers to help keep policies affordable."
The order retains coverage for removal of mold related to certain water damage that is covered by residential property policies, including the most commonly purchased HO-B homeowners policy. But it eliminates coverage for high-priced procedures, such as testing, treating, containing or disposing of mold beyond that necessary to repair or replace property that is physically damaged by water. Such procedures have contributed to unexpected and dramatic premium increases.
Policyholders will have the option, however, to purchase additional coverage - in increments of 25 percent, 50 percent and 100 percent of policy limits -- that includes these procedures. Insurers must offer applicants all levels of coverage in addition to the coverage in the basic policy.
Montemayor said he believes most Texans want to get "back to basics" in handling mold claims, removing the problem without a lot of expensive procedures that, in some cases, are performed by contractors with little or no expertise in mold removal. These procedures can cause premiums to increase for everyone, he added. "By going back to basics," he said, "I would expect a return to the premium levels that we enjoyed prior to the explosion of mold-related claims."
"The absence of an established body of science, coupled with insurance carriers not adjusting claims properly, has contributed to the current situation," Montemayor said.
The order provides coverage in the basic policy for removal of mold that results from water discharge, leak or overflow that is sudden and accidental, including those that are hidden or concealed. If a policyholder continuously ignores indications of an obvious water problem, such as wet carpeting, the claim for mold removal could be denied.
Montemayor's order also eliminates "stacking" of claims within the same policy year. "Stacking" is a process that has allowed some homeowners to collect more than 100 percent of their policy limits by filing several separate mold-related claims. Montemayor said "stacking" can drive up rates paid by everyone.
Under the order, which still leaves Texas with more mold coverage than other states, insurers may offer the new coverage as early as January 1, 2002, but no later than January 1, 2003. After a company begins offering the new coverage, individual policyholders won't see the change until their policies come up for renewal. Homeowners who choose the new, less expensive HO-B policy prior to their renewal dates may be entitled to refunds from their insurance companies on the unused portion of their old policies.
"My goal is to preserve as much protection as possible for homeowners while coming to grips with the excesses that have driven Texas to the brink of a crisis in the residential property insurance market," Montemayor said.
The Commissioner will set benchmark rates for both the basic policy and the additional mold-related coverage in the next benchmark hearing cycle. Until then, rate-regulated insurers must file individual rates reflecting the changed coverage before using the new policies. Only about 5 percent of the homeowners insurance market is affected by benchmark rates. In recent years, insurers have moved most of their homeowners business into companies that are free to set their rates without state oversight.
Montemayor said that although he can't mandate the rate differential between basic and full mold coverage for most homeowners policies, the Texas Department of Insurance (TDI) will monitor all the rates carefully to make sure insurers treat their customers fairly.
Montemayor declined to approve that portion of a TDI staff proposal that would have capped basic mold coverage at $5,000 per year but he maintained the provision allowing policyholders to buy additional coverage. In an October 16 hearing and written comments, the $5,000 cap drew criticism from both consumers and insurers. The restructured policy will not limit coverage based on a dollar limit.
Currently, HO-B policies in Texas cover mold removal only if the mold results from another covered event, such as a leaking water pipe. Until two years ago, few mold-related claims were filed, but since then claims costs have soared, causing insurers to seek elimination of this coverage. TDI data call information from the three largest homeowners insurers showed their cost of mold-related claims jumped from $9.1 million in the first quarter of 2000 to $79.5 million in the first quarter of 2001.
Montemayor said he also will consider individual companies' filings for alternative levels of mold coverage. A 1997 state law allows companies to file and the Commissioner to consider the companies' own policy forms and endorsements.
Montemayor held four public hearings related to mold coverage and received hundreds of comments, many of them conflicting. Many consumers urged him to leave the HO-B as it is, but others were willing to give up at least some mold-related coverage to reduce soaring premium costs. Insurers petitioned for complete removal of mold and certain water coverage, citing an unprecedented rise in mold-related claims.
"Despite my calls for restraint, several major insurers placed tight restrictions on HO-B sales in Texas, causing a potential crisis in the market," Montemayor said. "By addressing the major cost drivers, we intend to stabilize homeowners insurance availability and cost. If insurers cannot control insurance rates and losses, we may have to recommend increased state regulation to protect Texas consumers."
Montemayor said consumers will have to do their part to resolve the problem with good maintenance practices that keep mold from developing into a problem. TDI will conduct informational campaigns to help both consumers and insurers deal quickly and responsibly with mold problems, he added. Homeowners should take immediate action to stop the water discharge and begin drying the area. Insurers should quickly respond to claims where mold might become a problem.
Montemayor said he will appoint a task force to develop recommended procedures for handling mold claims. Also, the House Committee on Insurance will examine mold-related issues as an interim study prior to the 2003 legislative session.
A TDI study revealed that the surge in mold claims has been very acute in a few areas, particularly Corpus Christi. In October, Montemayor asked the Office of the Attorney General to investigate whether excessively high claims in the Corpus Christi area resulted from abusive mold-remediation practices and pricing.
Texas Department of Insurance
Created/Updated 11-28-2001
So there you have it. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 8:20 am: | |
Linda:
Why is the pay so much less? It would appear that handling mold claims requires more skill and brain power, than say hail claims.
I must be missing something here. |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:58 pm: | |
Well, Ghostbuster, you are partially correct, however, here's a newsflash for you--the pay is less than clean-up on a monthly basis. So the gold is not there for the adjuster but it is for some of the contractors. What it is for the adjuster is a steady paycheck for on a temporary basis. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 2:26 pm: | |
PS,
BUT WE CAN SURE REAP THE BENEFITS OF ITS EXISTENCE WHETHER IT IS REAL OR IMAGINED. REMEMBER THE TOPIC, "IS MOLD GOLD?" |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 2:11 pm: | |
To All,
Since I got this question going I guess I will have to keep answering the questions.
Dave, the loss report was turned in (9) days after the loss. This adjuster made contact and inspected the loss in less than 24 hours.
At this point, the mitigation company was pulling out the air machines, the following day after my inspection. We personally verified that the buildings humidity level was in the 15 to 20% level and that the companies’ evaluation of moisture levels were such that the air handlers were no longer needed. The insured did not instruct the company to do anything except dry the building out.
This company stated that on the third day of drying that the mold appeared on some of the walls in three of the rooms. They called an environmentalist and tests were run to determine the type and extent. We personally verified the mold and there were two types found. One was purple in color and the other black. Both types are toxic and must be removed.
The sprinkler line is a 1” line to the head and a 4” main supply line. It is under 200 lb’s of pressure. This is not relevant to the subject though.
The client has not provided the specific coverages or policy to me at this point; however, they have informed me by telephone that there was coverage for this loss.
Tom, the hotel does have an indoor pool on the other end of the building. However, as I have stated we ran tests on the humidity level and they were found to be less than normal for the circumstances related here. I personally observed the mold on the walls. It was two layers of 5/8” fire rated drywall and both sides of the drywall were covered with mold.
Just in case anyone was wondering, if I thought that moisture was an ongoing issue here, I would run a thermographic infrared test on the building. However, I do not believe this to be a factor. Although the moisture is a related factor to this problem, it has no bearing to the facts concerning the mold issue here. Trust me, the mold present on this loss is a direct result of this loss.
I hate to keep repeating myself, but I have stated that this issue is going to be as crucial as asbestos or probably bigger. That does not mean that I agree it should or should not be, but like asbestos, WE do not and cannot control it.
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 1:39 pm: | |
True, and in this case the proximate cause of the loss goes back some three decades to the original composition of the policy wording by the legal eagles that wrote it. Mind you, these were high priced lawyers representing the State of Texas and the Insurance Industry.
Do you folks remember the old legalese type policy that preceeded the easy read version. Not really a whole lot of difference. If we need a scapegoat, we need to look no further than any mirror.
Right now, more than a few of us are reaping a bonanza being on mold crews; right, Linda? Those on a Big Red mold crew will gross over $140,000 over the course of the year. For 8 hour days and 6 days a week, this is a gold mine. Big Blue and Big Fig have similar veins of gold being pulled out of them.
Will it end? Yes. The carriers are actuating their plans as we speak. This will happen regardless of the efforts of consumer groups, contractor lobbies, and backroom politics.
The moral of this story is two fold. For those adjusters that have managed to latch onto the teat, don't let go till the udder runs dry. For the Insureds, get those claims in early for, 'Ya gotta make hay while the sun shines, Nellie!' |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:21 am: | |
Since bad lawyering rather than good medicine (occupational or preventive) is driving the Turn Mold Into Gold rush, it might be a good time to recall the character Holden Caulfield's words in The Catcher In The Rye by J.D. Salinger to add a dollop of levity to this discussion:
“Lawyers are all right, I guess – but it doesn’t appeal to me,’ I said. ‘I mean they’re all right if they go around saving innocent guys’ lives all the time, and like that, but you don’t do that kind of stuff if you’re a lawyer. All you do is make a lot of dough and play golf and play bridge and buy cars and drink Martinis and look like a hot-shot. How would you know you weren’t being a phony? The trouble is, you wouldn’t” |
Linda Asberry (Linda)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 8:54 am: | |
Mr. Cook, thanks for sharing this very enlightening information with us. Would you please tell us the location of your source material?
In view of the fact that I am presently employed on a "mold" team, I find all substantial matter on this subject very interesting. |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 8:40 am: | |
PART 2 of Army ManualHISTORY AND SIGNIFICANCE
Mycotoxins allegedly have been used in aerosol form ("yellow rain") to produce lethal and nonlethal casualties in Laos (1975-81), Kampuchea (1979-81), and Afghanistan (1979-81). It has been estimated that there were more than 6,300 deaths in Laos, 1,000 in Kampuchea, and 3,042 in Afghanistan. The alleged victims were usually unarmed civilians or guerrilla forces. These groups were not protected with masks or chemical protective clothing and had little or no capability of destroying the attacking enemy aircraft. These attacks were alleged to have occurred in remote jungle areas which made confirmation of attacks and recovery of agent extremely difficult. Some investigators have claimed that the "yellow clouds" were, in fact, bee feces produced by swarms of migrating insects. Much controversy has centered upon the veracity of eyewitness and victim accounts, but there is evidence to make these allegations of BW agent use in these areas possible.
CLINICAL FEATURES
T-2 and other mycotoxins may enter the body through the skin and digestive or respiratory epithelium. They are fast acting potent inhibitors of protein and nucleic acid synthesis. Their main effects are on rapidly proliferating tissues such as the bone marrow, skin, mucosal epithelia, and germ cells. In a successful BW attack with trichothecene toxin (T-2), the toxin(s) can adhere to and penetrate the skin, be inhaled, or can be ingested. Clothing would be contaminated and serve as a reservoir for further toxin exposure. Early symptoms beginning within minutes of exposure include burning skin pain, redness, tenderness, blistering, and progression to skin necrosis with leathery blackening and sloughing of large areas of skin in lethal cases. Nasal contact is manifested by nasal itching and pain, sneezing, epistaxis and rhinorrhea; pulmonary/tracheobronchial toxicity by dyspnea, wheezing, and cough; and mouth and throat exposure by pain and blood tinged saliva and sputum. Anorexia, nausea, vomiting and watery or bloody diarrhea with abdominal crampy pain occurs with gastrointestinal toxicity. Eye pain, tearing, redness, foreign body sensation and blurred vision may follow entry of toxin into the eyes. Skin symptoms occur in minutes to hours and eye symptoms in minutes. Systemic toxicity is manifested by weakness, prostration, dizziness, ataxia, and loss of coordination. Tachycardia, hypothermia, and hypotension follow in fatal cases. Death may occur in minutes, hours or days. The most common symptoms are vomiting, diarrhea, skin involvement with burning pain, redness and pruritus, rash or blisters, bleeding, and dyspnea.
DIAGNOSIS
Rapid onset of symptoms in minutes to hours supports a diagnosis of a chemical or toxin attack. Mustard agents must be considered but they have an odor, are visible, and can be rapidly detected by a field available chemical test. Symptoms from mustard toxicity are also delayed for several hours after which mustard can cause skin, eye and respiratory symptoms. Staphylococcal enterotoxin B delivered by an aerosol attack can cause fever, cough, dyspnea and wheezing but does not involve the skin and eyes. Nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may follow swallowing of inhaled toxin. Ricin inhalation can cause severe respiratory distress, cough, nausea and arthralgias. Swallowed agent can cause vomiting, diarrhea, and gastrointestinal bleeding, but it spares the skin, nose and eyes. Specific diagnosis of T-2 mycotoxins in the form of a rapid diagnostic test is not presently available in the field. Removal of blood, tissue from fatal cases, and environmental samples for testing using a gas liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry technique will confirm the toxic exposure. This system can detect as little as 0.1-1.0 ppb of T-2. This degree of sensitivity is capable of measuring T-2 levels in the plasma of toxin victims.
MEDICAL MANAGEMENT
Use of a chemical protective mask and clothing prior to and during a mycotoxin aerosol attack will prevent illness. If a soldier is unprotected during an attack the outer uniform should be removed within 4 hours and decontaminated by exposure to 5% hypochlorite for 6-10 hours. The skin should be thoroughly washed with soap and uncontaminated water if available. The M291 skin decontamination kit should also be used to remove skin adherent T-2. Superactivated charcoal can absorb swallowed T-2 and should be administered to victims of an unprotected aerosol attack. The eyes should be irrigated with normal saline or water to remove toxin. No specific antidote or therapeutic regimen is currently available. All therapy is supportive.
PROPHYLAXIS
Physical protection of the skin and airway are the only proven effective methods of protection during an attack. Immunological (vaccines) and chemoprotective pretreatments are being studied in animal models, but are not available for field use by the warfighter. |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 8:38 am: | |
from military-US army Manual indicating that some molds (fusarium and stachybotrys) can create myctoxins that will have an impact on humans if exposed to them. I have never had a poison ivey reaction, so I can only assume that the ones that do must be faking their reaction.
Hay that has been contaminated with black mold can and domrtimes will kill a horse, but a cow can eat it and remain unaffected. The point being that how one particular person in a household reacts to elevated molds will not guarantee that all members will respond in a like manner.
William S Cook
Public Adjuster
Member IAQ Council
**************
This is taken from the US Army Biowarfare Manual
One can draw their own conclusions as to whether the moldwhiners are real or not.
MYCOTOXINS (T2)
SUMMARY
Signs and symptoms: Exposure causes skin pain, pruritus, redness, vesicles, necrosis and sloughing of epidermis. Effects on the airway include nose and throat pain, nasal discharge, itching and sneezing, cough, dyspnea, wheezing, chest pain and hemoptysis. Toxin also produces effects after ingestion or eye contact. Severe poisoning results in prostration, weakness, ataxia, collapse, shock, and death.
Diagnosis: Should be suspected if an aerosol attack occurs in the form of "yellow rain" with droplets of yellow fluid contaminating clothes and the environment. Confirmation requires testing of blood, tissue and environmental samples.
Treatment: There is no specific antidote. Superactivated charcoal should be given orally if the toxin is swallowed.
Prophylaxis: The only defense is to wear a protective mask and clothing during an attack. No specific immunotherapy or chemotherapy is available for use in the field.
Isolation and Decontamination: Standard Precautions for healthcare workers. Outer clothing should be removed and exposed skin should be decontaminated with soap and water. Eye exposure should be treated with copious saline irrigation. Once decontamination is complete, isolation is not required. Environmental decontamination requires the use of a hypochlorite solution under alkaline conditions such as 1% sodium hypochlorite and 0.1M NAOH with 1 hour contact time.
OVERVIEW
The trichothecene mycotoxins are low molecular weight (250-500 daltons) nonvolatile compounds produced by filamentous fungi (molds) of the genera Fusarium, Myrotecium, Trichoderma, Stachybotrys and others. The structures of approximately 150 trichothecene derivatives have been described in the literature. These substances are relatively insoluble in water but are highly soluble in ethanol, methanol and propylene glycol. The trichothecenes are extremely stable to heat and ultraviolet light inactivation. Heating to 1500o F for 30 minutes is required for inactivation, while brief exposure to NaOCl destroys toxic activity. The potential for use as a BW toxin was demonstrated to the Russian military shortly after World War II when flour contaminated with species of Fusarium was unknowingly baked into bread that was ingested by civilians. Some developed a protracted lethal illness called alimentary toxic aleukia (ATA) characterized by initial symptoms of abdominal pain, diarrhea, vomiting, prostration, and within days fever, chills, myalgias and bone marrow depression with granulocytopenia and secondary sepsis. Survival beyond this point allowed the development of painful pharyngeal/laryngeal ulceration and diffuse bleeding into the skin (petechiae and ecchymoses), melena, bloody diarrhea, hematuria, hematemesis, epistaxis and vaginal bleeding. Pancytopenia, and gastrointestinal ulceration and erosion were secondary to the ability of these toxins to profoundly arrest bone marrow and mucosal protein synthesis and cell cycle progression through DNA replication.
continued |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 7:56 pm: | |
Bingo! Give that man a cee-gar! Tom, your point was raised months ago. I agree, it is my opinion that the toxicity of mold is directly proportional to the size and coverage of an insurance policy.
This principle also applies to the cost of many goods and services, such as medical services and drugs. If an insurance policy wasn't out there, health care would be priced affordable. And, I also believe with no change in technical advancement. But, I digress.
The carriers here in Texas have finally got there blood up and are going for the political jugular. With Big Red, all their Texas homeowner policies are thru State Farm Lloyds. It is not the healthiest of the members of the Big Red. Underwriting losses here are not a pretty sight. But in a sense, by being a weakling, per se, and a mutual solely written in Texas, it has given State Farm the means to effect change on a grand scale not afforded to other carriers.
I suspect that if all the mold claims in State Farm Lloyds were reserved, that individual company would go insolvent without a large cash infusion by the auto and life companies. If they choose not to, the State of Texas guaranty fund would be tapped causing all the rest of the herd of carriers to cough up their proportional share to bail out State Farm Lloyds. A similar bailout occurred in 1975 to rescue GEICO. That bailout affected the bonus's for the carrier exec's that year and many a mistress had to settle for a Pinto instead of a Corvette. It was a sad time.
This is the Sword of Damocles dangling over the head of Jose Montemayor. Big Red is determined to write their own in complete variance to the Texas Dept. of Insurance. With a renewal start date of next August, this new HOW is supposed to take us back about 15 years.
The old expression of, 'You can't go back' is about to tested. Should be interesting times and definitely history in the making.
Please note, this post is made with information from a variety of sources. I think it is correct but may lack some minor accuracies along with my cloudy crystal ball. |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 7:13 pm: | |
Jim,
Agree with Dave Hood on about all points.
But one other question, does this facility have an indoor pool, atrium, fountians?
I have never been in any hotel, motel, or notell that hasn't had a humidity or mold problem no matter how new the facility if any of these items were present.
An additional point, if mold is such a danger, most of us should have died years ago. Think of all the places you have stayed, moving equipment in as the water extraction teams were taking equipment out, and stayed there for not 48 hours, not 72 hours, but three, four, or more months.
Does anyone want to address asbestos, toxins, and other perils we, espically fire and commercial adjusters are exposed to.
That is why I question the entire issue.
Tom Joyce
903-832-0467 |
R.D. Hood (Dave)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 1:24 pm: | |
You do have a number of issues to address.
For starters, with respect to the(Sprinkler)Contractor, the failure to provide the suspect sprinkler head, could fall under the "spoiliation of evidence" (sic)rule.
With respect to the carriers obligation, how long after the loss report, did the adjuster contact, ascertain the extent of the loss, and inspect the loss?
What,if anything, did the adjuster do to instruct the insured?
What direction were given to the "dry-out", (and then refered to as a mitigation) contractor,by whom? And why is it assumed that this contractor knew there was a mold issue.
Were any visual inspections made to identify the presence of mold?
What was the pipe size of the sprinkler line which was involved? (This determines the AMOUNT in gallons of water lost).This may or may not be a mute point.
Again, sans the policy, as it was not advised if it is an ISO,(forms and endorsements) or a Manuscript, coverage cannot be accurately determined.
However, it does appear on the surface, that the mold is a consequencial and ensuing loss of a covered peril.
With respect to the mold, has it been identified?, have tests been taked?, is it TOXIC?
Without all of the facts, the policy, and the ensuing activites, you have created a virtual Hydra, to be examined.
Guess you had to be there, Good Luck on this one, Jim. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 12:59 pm: | |
To All,
I guess I should have given you all the facts of the commercial loss.
This hotel is just nine months old. The owner, acting as the GC, built it. They hired another contractor to act as the construction manager for them. They are insured with a commercial policy with endorsements for full coverage.
Late on a Friday night, a guest saying they had water in their room, called one of the employees. The employee called the hotel manager at home. He went to the hotel and called the local fire dept. The fire dept. came and could not find the leak. One of the other hotel employees went into the attic and found a fire sprinkler head had come apart and was spraying non-stop. They called the sprinkler company and they came out, shut off the water, changed the head and re-charged the system. They charged the insured over $500.00 to do the repairs. The water had run for over (2) hours before being shut off. This line has 200 lb of pressure per sq inch.
The hotel manager had his employees extract the water from all three floors that were soaked. On Monday, the manager called the fire protection company and asked them to come over and let him know what they intended to do about all the damage. They kept putting him off and never showed. After 4 days, the manager called a nationwide firm to dry out the building. This was the following Saturday after the loss. On Monday, the manager called his carrier and reported the loss. The actual loss had occurred 9 days prior.
Subrogation is not the issue or question here. We all know that’s a given.
The real questions are:
1) “Now that mold and mildew has shown its ugly head, are the damages from it, covered or not?”
2) How can it be denied?
3) What is the specific exclusion in the policy to deny it?
4) What does the carrier owe the insured, since the mitigation company has now spread the mold throughout the hotel?
5) Since the mitigation company knew there was a mold problem, what portion of the loss, if any, should the carrier for the insured attempt to collect, if they pay for the mold damages?
6) Are the damages from mold, recoverable from the sprinkler company, if it is proven that their product was the “cause of the loss?”
Just out of curiosity, the sprinkler company took the old sprinkler head and would not give it to the insured or his insurance carriers adjuster, me. What law comes into play and how does it affect the ultimate out come of the loss, if they do not give the insured access to the suspected sprinkler head? I will explain later the out come of this predicament.
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 11:03 am: | |
Big Jim, maybe I'm missing something here but the mold party here is the result of a Corpus Christi P.A., Mr Brock, prying open the 'ensuing loss clause' and the basic weakness of the Texas HOB insuring agreement to show us the inherent defect of the policy itself. Forever, trainees and veterans alike made coverage decisions based on how the policy SHOULD be read, not how it ACTUALLY read. Boy! Were we a bunch of DUMMARDS! Or, was in fact the Dept. of Insurance the dummards for mis-writing the policy in this fashion?
In any event, laugh long and loud Mr Flynt, the moldy gold rush has an end in sight. The remediation contractors and testing labs and assorted microbiologists and, of course, the P.A.'s and plaintiffs lawyers will be seeking other venues of profit. But, that's the saga of Boom & Bust in the Lone Star State.
For a quick laugh, please go the the CADO homepage and visit the insure.com story. Look at the sidebar to the left at the Farmers logo. Every few seconds it explodes or burns to ashes. Is my perspective askew? I can't believe this got passed them. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2001 - 10:04 am: | |
Glad to see the DingALing Brothers, Darn-Them and Daily Mold Circus is still playing down in Texas. It keeps the rest of us quite entertained with great humor.
Perhaps that's what happens when you turn Leonards well trained one peril roof thumpers loose to handle real claims and decipher and decode policy language.
A case of the blind leading the blind.
Thanks but the rest of us will just keep our old seeing eye dogs, if we can ever get them to stop rolling on the floor in laughter too.
Who said you couldn't teach an old dog new tricks? |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 8:28 pm: | |
My point is use the entire policy, THERE IS REASONS FOR IT FOR "ALL PARTIES INVOLVED UNDER THE CONTRACT".
I did not read Jim Lakes entire post, but I have worked up north almost exclusively for 20 years, before I discovered warmer climates.
You will run into interesting claims because of temperature changes, insureds out of town for extended periods, on and on.
One type of claim we use to have occur over the winter months involved steam or hot water heat, extremely cold temperatures and a brisk wind whick would find a way to enter the cold into the most homes.
The problem was that many of these claims involved snowbirds, left NY, Ohio, IL, ect for Texas or Flordia. The insureds had arrangments to have their homes visited on a weekly basis and heat maintained. Thus fulfilling policy requirements.
How many of you have seen a home filled with steam or water hot enough to boil with, standing for a week or more.
Believe me, it is not pretty. Wallpater is stripped off walls, paint is either blistered or running of the walls, associated damages to contents, heating systems, some electrical, checked for safety. But you know what, by the insured taking care of their properties by having someone stop by, damages were still mitigated.
I have never had a mold problem with this type of loss, and damn few on floods.
So where is the problem, delay in claim handling, estimates prepared to minimize costs as opposed to correct estimating and taking into account necessary repairs to eliminate this damage.
Got to admit that claims handling practices by adjusters and as instructed by vendors and companies has put them into the pickle jar.
Just a few comments over the holiday.
Now I'll go read Jim Lakes post and see how far off base I am.
Tom Joyce
903-832-8096
ps
Dave Hood,
Nice email for the holiday weekend, thanks.
TJ |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 2:44 pm: | |
Not only do we use the entire policy, but our decision letters must quote policy language,,,,biiiiig difference in standing in the living room and telling that good ole boy that there is no coverage. It has to be something that will hold up in court, and so far the lawyers down here just ain't found it. Now I know there are a lot of "adjusters" out there that have tons of experience but have never worked a Texas mold claim, but know just exactly how to put a lid on this thing. C'mon down and save these carriers millions of $,,,or maybe advise these high $ lawyers and get yourself a big piece of that gold out of the mold. |
Cecelia Sharpe
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 6:17 pm: | |
Jim, I'd first like to know how soon the loss was discovered after it occurred. If it was discovered more than 24 hrs after it occurred I'd like to know why. The reason I use 24 hrs is that we are dealing with a hotel and there should be lots of people in and around most areas. I am not stating that the loss must be reported within that period of time, but a hotel is not like a home where someone is on vacation for 4 days. How big was the loss and where was it located? I would also like to know when the emergency services company was called and when they arrived (you stated they installed fans, etc within 4 days, but I don't want to assume that was when the loss was reported and the same day that the emergency services company arrived) and in what condition the building was in at the time. The emergency services company might be a good subrogation prospect.
In almost all cases, that I have seen, when the insured was out of town (or perhaps we're dealing with a vacation home) and the loss was a covered loss then the ensuing damages, including mold, have been covered. |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 5:16 pm: | |
Ladies and Gentlemen:
Just a few questions, not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.
How many claims have you handled where the insured was out of town on vacation, business or what ever, for a week or two and came home to a flooded house due to a pipe break or some other covered loss? This has been the case on many occasions that I know of. Mold and mildew was obvious everywhere. Is the mold and mildew removal or the damage it has caused, covered?
I have a commercial loss, as I write this, where the insured never reported the loss to the carrier for (9) days. Now there is mold and mildew in this nine-month old hotel. Is the removal and/or damages for the mold and mildew covered? Where in the policy does it state that the loss must be reported to the carrier within 24 or 48 hours or some other period of time? Most policies simply state, “as soon as reasonably possible.”
Keep in mind that mold and mildew in many cases is formed and growing within 48 to 72 hours of the loss, when the conditions are right.
Not only that, but the insured called a nationwide company out to mitigate the water and they installed air blowers, and ducts to dry out the building, (4) days after the loss. We now have the possibility of mold and mildew spores being blown throughout the complete hotel, because the company did not address the mold and mildew issue before this operation was preformed.
How many of you would deny these damages listed above and please quote the policy for your denial interpretation?
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 2:06 pm: | |
You have to read the entire policy, not pick and choose portions.
If there is suddden and accidental loss due to water, the insured is usually aware of it immediatly.
Now mold does not generally contaminat a dwelling immediatly, but takes a period of time.
Unless there have been some drastic changes I missed, is there not a duty owed by the insured to mitigate damges? |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 11:50 am: | |
Also wrong way,,if I were working from a HO-3 policy with those beatiful words "sudden and accidental", the mold would be excluded, but the water damage would be sudden and accidental, and the mold would be the result of a covered loss, (ensuing loss). |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 11:44 am: | |
In a nutshell, the tallest hog at the Texas trough is preparing to write it's own policy, in a non-free form state. Is Big Red bigger than TDI? Have they been preparing for this move for the past year or so (while us "smart" guys were trying to second guess them). Could it be that the powers that be,,,really are? By this time next year there will be no more HO-Bs, a power reserved for only the Texas legislature,,or is it? Or maybe all the elements have been put in place to leave no choice. You're witnessing insurance industry history in Texas Ghost, and most of us don't even have enough insight to comprehend it. It seems that "adjusters" all over the country know how to solve Texas problems,,,,without ever reading a Texas policy. |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 11:26 am: | |
Congraulations wrong way,,,you've just discovered one of those magic phrases that has been convieniently left out of TX HO-B,,,(edited by moderator DGD)Things are not always what they appear to be, some things need to be investigated before rendering an opinion. |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:10 pm: | |
Whatever happened to SUDDEN AND ACCIDENTAL?
Mold is anything BUT sudden and accidental. Or has anyone heard? |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 8:36 pm: | |
Yes it's me:
Ind. Adj., Mold consultant and whatever. It seems that ever claim that I am ask to look at involves Big Red. Gee, will these guys ever learn?
I guess there is gold in mold. At least from the plaintiff point of view.
You and your's would not believe what I have seen done by ( Sr. Claims Rep's). People who should know better. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 7:30 pm: | |
Yes, I have, Old Dog. From Jose's standpoint, it is a brilliant way to save his political hide by dumping the whole mess in the lap of the legislature. Big FIG's gambit of non-renewing all their HOBs was a brilliant flanking manuver. This from Big Red is a pure frontal assault.
It's the uniqueness of Big Red's position in the market place that enables this power play. An upshot of this tactic will be to return control of the loss assessment to the field adjuster and in effect, turn back the clock.
Old Dog, I don't want to hog the trough. Perhaps you would care to do the honors and share the gruesome details of this magnificient event? |
ToddSummers
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:42 pm: | |
Looks like mold IS gold, at least, in a manner of speaking , for me and my family. I have just accepted a long term assignment (min 40 claims) working mold claims in South Texas for Farmer's / Eberls on a very decent hourly rate. What was looking to be a skinny winter is now looking fat.
Just wondering if there are any adjusters who are or have been working some of these mold claims in Tx that could share with me and my compadres a sense of what to expect, or to give us a heads up on any related issues. Comments or emails welcome from all.
Thank you Eberl's, Thank you Farmers, Thank you God, Thank you Claude.
Hope you all will have as wonderful a Thanksgiving as ours will be.
Be sure and remember our troops and all of the victims of evil in your prayers this week. |
Old Dog
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 10:11 am: | |
Hey Ghost,,,??NO commentary or analysis on Big Red's HISTORIC move down in Texas???? What? you haven't heard? Better check your sources. As we say down here in Texas,"we're gonna see who's the tallest hog at the trough". |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 12:33 am: | |
Now that the Big Fig and Texas Insurance Commissioner Jose Montemayor have locked horns, we need to ask ourselves, just what kind of HOB, (which is like an HO-3), do the carriers want?
Or, to be succinct, what changes would benefit us? Personally, I would like to see the basic Insuring Agreement altered to be for accidental direct physical loss. This point needs to be nailed down to prevent any misconceptions. Next, the ensuing loss clause must be deleted. This is the clause that has allowed the genie to escape from the bottle. Also, to the matter of evaluations, the medical insurance industry has used the term, 'usual and customary' for years in the determination of payments. Were we to use this method on common building items like roofing, drywall, framing, and paint, control of the assessment of the loss would be back in our corner where it has always belonged. I would also like to see a policy provision that is iron-clad that the assessment of the loss must include the application of recoverable depreciation. For too long, the wavering on this key function of the adjuster has resulted in our being made redundant in the claims process and replaced by the approved shop contractors.
I am of the opinion these basic changes to the HOB policy would return a measure of sanity to our industry by putting the adjuster back in control of the file instead of the contractor. |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 8:12 pm: | |
Ghost:
All Insurance Carriers in my great state are looking for you. It appears that Ghost the keeper of the mold, has allowed it to escape Texas. What did I see when I browsed through todays Sunday paper? Lawyers running ads for mold claims. Have you had a homeowners claim involving water? Do you now have mold and mildew? Are you unhappy with the way your Homeowners claims was handled? Roof, plumbing, fire etc....
Looks like it would be a great time to be a lawyer. Hope there will be some mold left for me.
P.S. Ghost, I refused to give them your location.
I am unaware of any adjusters here who even know how to handle a mold claim, much less handle one correctly. Time for a mold 101 school. lawyers, gotta love them. At least this should generate some work for the savy independents who know how to market their mold skills. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2001 - 10:17 am: | |
And a great, big UP YOURS to the Great State of Texas! Brought to you courtesy of The Farmers Insurance Group of Companies.
I'm laughing so hard I may go into cardiac arrest.
Again, from todays San Antonio Express-News, Section B, metro, front page: "FARMERS DROPS TEXAS HOMEOWNERS", Firm says mold claims caused financial losses. (Associated Press) AUSTIN- Citing increasing mold claims, Farmers Insurance Group says it will not renew comprehensive homeowners insurance policies for any of its 600,000 customers in Texas next year. The Los Angeles based company said mold coverage included in the Texas policy threatens its financial stability.
There it is my fellow cheribum and seraphram, the figurative thermo nuclear device has been dropped right dab on Insurance Commissioner Jose's coiffured hair-do. 600,000 poor souls will be left without the peace of mind of having, "Farmers puts you back where you belong", as the current company slogan goes. Should their slogan now be changed to, "We tell you where to go"? I seem to recall their old slogan, "Fast, Fair, and Friendly", was widely altered to, "Slow, Surly, and Squirrely".
Truly these are the good ol' days. I once computed that water in its various forms comprised over 95% of the losses to residential structures. With the HOB policy no longer sold by the Big FIG, will they be needing all those expensive property adjusters and those even more expensive independents from Wardlaw and NCA and Eberls? And, can Big Red and Big Blue be far behind?
Amazing! Just Amazing! |
R.D. Hood (Dave)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 12:22 am: | |
http://sacramento.bcentral.com/sacramento/stories/2001/11/05/daily29.html
Is the web site for information |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 9:20 pm: | |
Bill, can you provide CADO readers with a weblink to the Sacramento court decision or news story?
Liability coverage under Section II ~ Liability Coverages under the homeowner policies is limited to Coverage E ~ Personal Liability (For 3rd Party Liability) and Coverage F ~ Medical Payments to Others (also 3rd party). There is no medical, hospitalization or health coverage for "named insureds" within the HO policies, which would include 'bodily injury' by definition.
It would seem obvious from the size of the court award that the award would generally be in excess of the policy limits for most policies, which would indicate some desire on the part of a carrier to litigate rather than settle.
Further, it would also seem obvious that this would by the nature of being an award for 'bodily injury' be a 3rd party claim, which would be interesting with regard to the mold exposure theories, duties owed by an insured, the aspect of negligence asserted, and the status of the plaintiff (guest, invitee, trespasser, residence employee).
Is it perhaps possible that this claim was made under a CGL (Commercial General Liability) policy?
Can you provide more detail to fill in the gaps? |
William S. Cook (Wscook)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 8:33 pm: | |
Un-verified but reported as a fact.
For all of you injured folks out there, you should be able
to rest a little, for the fear of money will be in the
hearts of insurance companies.
Look at the recent $2.7 million dollar judgment for BODILY
INJURY ONLY as a result of exposure to mold. The Judgment
came down today in Sacramento (verdict last night11-07-01).
No punitive damages, just good ole pain and suffering.
William S Cook
Public Adjuster |
bored
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2001 - 3:30 pm: | |
Interesting article on mold in California
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/10012617_PE_NEWS_nmold04.html |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 12:32 pm: | |
New Hurricne = New Pregnant Mold
Lawyers in South Florida are shooting new mold commercials as we sit here and wait. |
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