| Author |
Message |
John Mcmennamy
Registered User
Username: Johnnymc
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 11:36 pm: | |
Thanks Jim. That means alot coming from you.
Dave my point being. As a steep team member you have and use the right equipement. The equipement being basicly mountain climbing gear. A man tied off on the ground controling and guiding the equipement so as the man in the air does not meet the ground in such a way that may be detrimental to his health. The man in the air, on the roof communicating what he needs to stay in the air and get from point A to point B.
With the right equipement and team there is very little risk. Although an adjuster, including myself, may climb a 10/12/or 12/12 and eccept the fact that the risk of falling is there. We take chances and most of the time we win. Thats what a trained and equiped steep team is for. Any time you climb a roof or a ladder there is risk. A steep team has the experience and equipement to lessen the risk. Just like anything else,S--- happens.
I've climbed roofs that other adjusters did not feel comfortable climbing. I've also declined climbing a roof because i did not feel comfortable climbing it. I've climbed numerous 12/12 roofs with out a rope and harness. I've also decined to climb a 6/12 because I did not feel comfortable on the roof. Trust your feelings and don't put yourself in a bad cituation. No it's not just the money, but if another adjuster will not climb the roof and it takes 4 or more hours to climb and scope the roof safely, it's worth the pay.
None of us are in this business for the fun of it. Yes we enjoy our job or should. We help a lot of good people get back to where they were before their loss. We are not here to go into debt for the vender to supply people,while they make money.
I don't beleave a vender should get a commission on milage, photos or the pay to compinsate you for your cell phone ($ 2).
If they pay 40% or your expence for photos, car or truck payment, cell phone bills, gas,up keep, insurance. Then they can have their 40%.
Work safe and don't take risks. The life you save may be mine or Jim,s.
Thanks for listening.
This just my oppinion may or may not have any effect on what time the sun comes up tomorrow.
Johnny Mac |
Jim Flynt
Member
Username: Jimflynt
Post Number: 251
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 2:16 pm: | |
Memo to Johnny Mc : John when the steep teams all "vote with their feet" by saying NO, the per diem pay will not only return to where it was, it will go up to WHERE it SHOULD BE.
Keep your chin up and know you did the right thing.
And if there are any vendors out there staffing for a current cat, you couldn't do any better than including Johnny Mc on your team. He's a Pro! |
Dave Dehlinger
Registered User
Username: Davey
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 1:26 pm: | |
Maybe I'm different than the average Cat Adj., but I'm not going to put myself at risk for any amount of money. Glad there are guys like you around John. Money is a great motivator, but just where do you draw the line. |
John Mcmennamy
Registered User
Username: Johnnymc
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 12:03 pm: | |
As with most of you, the last 3 years has been slim pickins for the independent adjuster. Last year I took a staff position for a major carrier. More paper work and hours than a cat adjuster. This gave me a whole new out look on what a staff adjuster has to go through to close a claim. After 9 months I had enough and am back to the great ranks of being an independent. I've receaved great responce to my resumes sent to all the venders. Been on stand by for the last week or so. This does not bring any money in, but at least lets you know your on their list to deploy.
Yesterday I receaved a call to do a 2 Story/Steep assignment for a major vender and and a major carrier. The fee was $ 600 a day for the team. 3 years ago it was $ 650 a day for the team leader and $ 450 a day for the helper, minus 40% to the vender. This was to climb and scope from the gutters up, then return the file to the assigned adjuster. Lets see,$75 a day for sharing room, $ 25 a day for food ( $ 2.99 grand slam plus coffee, $.39 Burger King lunch w/ fries and drink and a all you can eat buffet a night), a least $ 25 a day transportation expences, $ 240 comission to the vender at 40%. I'm not the most intelligent person, but my calculations show you would split $ 235 a day or $ 117.50 each. What a great deal for the vender. You risk injury from falling off a steep and posibly 2 story roof for $ 117.50 and the vender collects $ 240 for staying on the ground cheering you on. By the way I did not include the price of the equipement. I will decline any offer that puts myself or some one else in harms way with out being compensated for it. There is a reason the assigned adjuster wants a Steep Team to scope the roof, it's dangerous. As has been posted many times. Know before you go. Several of us need work and money in the bank account at this time. Don't put yourself at risk without the proper equipement or fee.
As we all know, several of our comrades have been injured in the last 3 years from falls from roofs. A Steep Team has it's place and for good reasons.
Times are changing, both technology and the way we close claims. The fee schedules have changed, both good and bad.
Keep up with the technology,this insures you can compete for the work that is available. Work safe, this insures you will get a next assignment. Do the best job you can do and treat every claim as if it were your claim, this will insure that the claim was closed right.
Just my oppinion, others may see it differently.
Thats why Roy set this site up and it's been so successful. Thanks for listening.
Johnny Mac |
Jim Flynt
Member
Username: Jimflynt
Post Number: 239
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 10:37 am: | |
Damn Jim, I liked it better when you let us adjust those roof claims from the ground. A fellow could get hurt way up in the clouds like that in Cook County with oxygen deprivation and high altitude sickness and all.
Can't you just let John set up a little table with the cookies and drinks down by the side of the house?
All these new fangled ideas you seem to be getting could spell T-R-O-U-B-L-E for us older fellows who are members of the Over The Hill Gang. Why heck next thing we know, you'll be asking us to measure the darn things rather than give you our best SWAG as we used to do.
Geeze.............
At least we can still look forward to your weekly treating all your RAC cat adjusters to FREE steak and drinks on Wednesday nights and FREE beer and lobster on Saturday nights........or is THAT out too?
And whatever happened to all those girls you hired from Hooters to help us drive around and find our claims?
(Message edited by jimflynt on April 18, 2002) |
JimLakes
Registered User
Username: Jimlakes
Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 9:54 am: | |
Hey Guys,
If John Durham says it, it must be true, because John is a man of his word.
What I will do on the next storm, because I know John can not run as fast now, is buy the cookies and send him out to put up on the peaks and by the chimneys so you guys can have an reason for climbing these tall roof's up here in the Lake Forest area. I am sure John would agree to do this, since the last storm he worked for us down state, we gave him a shovel and he had a great time in those barns and running the flat lands of IL for hours at a time.
Welcome back the land of Lincoln, John (or is it Honest Abe)???
Jim Lakes, RPA
|
JimLakes
Registered User
Username: Jimlakes
Post Number: 73
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 9:53 am: | |
(Message edited by jimlakes on April 18, 2002)
Jim Lakes, RPA
|
mark salmon
Registered User
Username: Olderthendirt
Post Number: 157
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:06 pm: | |
The only way you are going to get me on those 30' to the eve steep sloops I saw in Chicago is by putting oatmeal raison cookies up top for me
 |
joseph m lombardo jr
Registered User
Username: Jlombardo
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 1:43 pm: | |
Jim,
Do you mean that John was not being truthful about the cookies?????....and I was looking forward to some chocolate chip cookies while climbing that roof......... |
JimLakes
Registered User
Username: Jimlakes
Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 10:21 am: | |
To John Durham,
John, you have lost it, but I am sure you will find IT again. You are well on your way there.
It is sure great to be able to have this fun with you. Only with God's help are you even here and it is wonderful that in just a few short weeks you seem to be back to your "old self."
God's Speed my friend and we are all happy that you are still here, even if you are an "old biased, over the hill, and broken down claims adjuster. Ha Ha.
Jim Lakes, RPA
|
Tom Joyce
Registered User
Username: Tjoyce
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 5:48 pm: | |
Tom and Janice,
Your comments remind of years ago when we were using the old peel apart Polirods or the old Kodak insta-prints (which wouldn't develope in the cold weather unless you used the defroster in the car or body heat).
A child and a camera are a natural combination and it does impress the customer that you take the time to produce a photo for the family.
I never had a problem or dispute with any insured I took the extra time and minimual expence to show some kindness.
Over the years I, like all of you have run into some of the same insureds who always made it a point to bring out the old photos I took and then showed me current ones. Sometimes at that time the children were in college or married. Took the time to visit, and another claim closed.
You all be safe out there. |
Tom Toll
Registered User
Username: Tom
Post Number: 80
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 5:32 pm: | |
Janice and I are just starting to wrap up in San Antonio. This has been one of those dream hail/tornado storms. The entire community has been so courteous and appreciative. It has been a joy to work with them. Cunningham Lindsey has been wonderful to work with also. The Cat team they have, Gene Murphy, Roger Smith, and Teresa Linne are tops in our book. Needless to say, Randy Gray heads the team. They zip coded the claims so we did not have to drive so much. Needless to say that converts to income. Less time behind the windshield means more income. This cannot happen every storm, but when it does, its nice to know the Cat team tries to help us.
We tried something a little different this storm. We worked with quite a few younger policyowners. We took pictures of their children and mailed it to them along with the adjusters summary. The Mom's and Dad's really liked that. Just a few pennies to make someone else feel good. Of course Janice and I love children, so we enjoyed the kids posing for us.Treat the insured the way you would want to be treated, if YOU had a claim, and you will have very few problems. We averaged inspecting and closing 10 files per day working together because of the routing of the files. If you are truly a professional adjuster and take pride in what you do, you might want to get on their list of approved adjusters. I hope all will have this opportunity in the very near future.
Remember UP YOUR ATTITUDE AND SMILE A LOT. LIFE IS SHORT. |
John Durham
Registered User
Username: Johnd
Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:22 pm: | |
Jim Lakes:
I WAS NOT referring to you or your fine organization when I made the post shown below. I have not totally LOST IT, sometimes, I just have trouble finding IT....
PS: To whom it may concern: If you read my post below, when in the Chicago (Cook County) area, try and work for Jim Lakes at RAC Adjustments. None of the things I said in my post below will happen to you. He usually starts every adjuster out with 250 claims that are all within walking distance, (so you can tote your ladder between them) all the insureds are extremely nice and have cookies and coffee ready when you arrive.. etc etc etc. |
JimLakes
Registered User
Username: Jimlakes
Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:59 am: | |
To All,
God please give us a storm to go to soon.
Some of the "oldtimers" have now flat lost it or are on the way.
Thanks Lord, I know you will all help us out soon.
Jim Lakes, RPA
|
Dan Meler
Registered User
Username: Danmeler
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:45 am: | |
Yes the business is changing.
It has ALWAYS BEEN changing.
Stay on the cutting edge of things.
There will be damned good money for many years to come for really the good adjusters among us - be one of those adjusters.
It's a GREAT way to make a living. My wife and I love it!!
|
Ghostbuster
Member
Username: Ghostbuster
Post Number: 244
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 9:06 am: | |
"NEGATIVE WAVES, MORIARITY!!!
ALWAYS WITH THE NEGATIVE WAVES!!!!"
Oddballs favorite expression.
(From the movie, 'Kelly's Heroes', 1970.)
|
D Wong Whey
Registered User
Username: Dwongwhey
Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 6:54 am: | |
Perhaps the sooner cat adjusting as we know it dies, the better off we (cat adjusters) will all be. |
D Wong Whey
Registered User
Username: Dwongwhey
Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 6:52 am: | |
John you forgot to mention that the vendor will pay you every 30 days (45 days from when you first start working). After all, why shouldn't the adjuster finance the storm for the vendor and carrier?
You also should mention adjusters will be required to provide their own cell phone, and of course, they won't pass out the cell number to insureds, roofers, and examiners. |
John Durham
Registered User
Username: Johnd
Post Number: 49
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 10:59 pm: | |
Well Ghost, your scenario sounds good, now the way it will be.... Each adjuster will get 50 files for two story broken-up hip roofs spread across an entire county of Cook (chicago) and will be required to write the estimates using a different software program for each claim. Roofing forms will be issued (in triplicate) and required on all turn-ins. Meetings will be held every morning at 7:00 AM at the CAT office for the vendor, where his 19 year old son will explain HIS requirements and change the file order he gave out yesterday, Also, he will be doing all re-inspections. For this he is well qualified, as he just finished "Basics of Three Tab Shingle Installation." You will be required to make appointments with each insured, who will receive a questionnare from the insurance company asking if you covered the standard 74 items with them before closing the claim. But, and this is the main item, you WILL get paid the standard schedule fee of $112.00 per roof with a 10% holdback that will be paid before christmas. Think of it as a christmas Club savings account.
And we are worried about CAT adjusting C h a n g i n g ........ |
Ghostbuster
Member
Username: Ghostbuster
Post Number: 243
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 5:04 pm: | |
That's right, Tom!
It's an age old adage that the fewer the workers, the more they are worth, and they more they CONTROL the prices. What a great concept, the ol' Law of Supply and Demand!
Now my fellow bucaneers, all we need is nice clean hail storm in the older section of a large metropolitan area, kinda like St Louis last year. No steep or cutup roofs, just simple gables and hips on no more than a 5/12 pitch, with each valued, heroic adjuster getting 200 files, just for starters.
Why, we might even be appreciated for a change! Wouldn't that be loverly? |
Tom Joyce
Registered User
Username: Tjoyce
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 4:09 pm: | |
I just got back and started to review the various postings on mold and just as as side isssue foundations. We as a group consider ourselves catadjusters and are not use to long term commitments.
These claims just are time consuming, so many tests and follow-up inspections. I have files that have had 5 adjusters on them.
Will it go away? In a nutshell no.
The other item is staffing, there is not enough people out there with the necessary experience in the event that a major cat hits and to handle the mold issues that are coming up across the country.
|
Andrew K. Sloane
Registered User
Username: Claimsranger
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 9:55 am: | |
Well, deep subject for shallow minds. Is the CAT industry changing? I have read this post from the bottom up and other than the Ghoust and Jim Flynt all I've read is Non-sensical "Wishing and spittin' in a hand to see which one fills up 1st. Change is inevitable. Mold claims are just like EQ claims,IMHO, because I have worked both. Getting one of these puppies closed is litterally a mental breakdown. The greed factor here in the "Molden Triangle" of Teaxs is thru the roof. I only have 52 files, manageable Huh? 43 of them have a sister claim opened for a 2nd COL and some even have a 3rd COL/claim! We call 'em "Bunnies", cute?yeah right.! The paper trail is unbelievable with these losses. Way past anything I did @Northridge in '94. Although Roy & Lee are probably adding another 6-8" to each claim they are re-closing. I was visiting with a FIG Adjuster on T & E, they have thrown in the towel and the N/I only has to get 3 estimates, they pick the lowest and WHAM!!! Closed Claim. Not so with Big Red, Plumbing test=$650, CIH=$3500 to $6000. ALE=6months @$2250 minimum, all this before you even have any work started! And I am working "NEW" claims. Some of the folks have the Alligators that have been open 2 years. I took my Adjusting notebook and burned it after the 1st week! Linda, please back me up here. The stress factor is about 190 over 130. Is the industry changing?You Bectcha it is!! What is almost ironic is the reality that when a real storm hits, all of the experienced Stormtroopers working Mold, are committed for the next 2-3 years unless they walk the non storm and warm bodies will be handling major losses. That's when the real change will become a reality! Hide & watch, and Ghoust, keep on advising people to turn in those mold claims! I have a couple more payments on my new wave runner I need to make! |
Jim Docherty
Registered User
Username: Jim_docherty
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 11:04 am: | |
Tom, thanks for making it clear you did not aim any arrows at me.
I agree with you that it is not your duty to run around introducing "remedial experts" to policyholders. One word to the wise. I would be far more circumspect if it was the homeowner who made the request to have it inspected for possible mold infiltration. In addition I really sympathize with any adjuster working in your area now who is trying to close files on a schedule. There is a reason why our brothers working mold are on a daily rate. These claims may not be complicated but given the current climate of greed, (I'm sure it's there ) uncertainty (I know it's there ) and lack of any real experts must make these claims extremely difficult to settle. Remind me a little of EQ claims. They never seem to go away.
Anyway, I'm sure a man of your years in the business will overcome his obvious frustration and do the right thing. Take a deep breath, smile and plough through a difficult situation.
Good luck and hope for hail.
|
Tom Toll
Registered User
Username: Tom
Post Number: 78
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 10:08 pm: | |
Jim, I did not mean to twist your belt. No one should have a problem with mold, if they know what they are doing. I have always taken mold into consideration any time I work a claim involving moisture.
I met a remediation contractor today, working next door to a loss we were handling. He asked if I would introduce him to the policyholder so he could get a remediation claim started. Now, the garage ceiling got wet, due to roof failure as a result of loss of shingles. We took care of the claim the way it should be. No reason for a mold "Expert" contractor to try and develop a remediation claim. I always do what the companies ask of me, thats what we are paid to do. Perhaps thats why I stay busy all the time. I devote time almost every night to get on the net and educate myself, as does my adjuster wife, so when I knock on a door I know how to properly greet, explain, answer questions, and certainly to write a proper scope of the loss.
The comment was not aimed at you. It was aimed at people trying to get rich quick in the mold remediation business, and those policy owners who read about the $40M mistake made.
Janice and I found some mold in our home just before we left to go to TWIA and consequently ending up working losses in San Antonio. I took my old trusty spray bottle with 1/3 bleach and 2/3 water and zapped that cruel and dispicable old Mr. Mold. Guess what! It disappeared. We do the same in our bathrooms where mold loves to grow all by itself.
|
Jim Docherty
Registered User
Username: Jim_docherty
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 8:40 pm: | |
Tom, didn't realise I had to agree with a claim in order to adjust it. Must have missed that day in kindergarten. Also don't remember the last time I created a claim. I just does what I does when I'm told to do it. The adjuster who started this mess( Remember it was bad faith claims handling not sickness caused by mold ) probably thought just like you. He must have thought "This is a crock." Voila! $40,000,000.00 later. By the way, your sympathy for policy holders is touching. You might also note I don't tell you to get out of the business nor to "update your professionalism".I innocently passed comment on a t.v. article alerting those in our business who may be interested. When a claim is made insurance companies must respond. They have no choice. Or rather they have two choices. Respond or go out of business. The industry as a whole would not be around long if all adjusters had your "it's a crock" attitude. |
D Wong Whey
Registered User
Username: Dwongwhey
Post Number: 101
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 7:52 pm: | |
Mister Ghostbuster, with each "mold" claim reported and each "mold" claim paid, another dent is made in holding down loss ratios, thus diminishing any resistance to across the board homeowners premium increases.
With higher premiums obviously comes higher commissions (though a reduction in annual contingent overrides) which might be seductive for adjusters to switch over to sales for the $money$.
Perhaps there are some agents out there who also "owe" you a few lunches and if things get bad enough, heck, you can always start selling increased limits insurance to all those insureds making a killing on the "mold racket".
Just give folks a little more time down in Texas to see that someone (all the Texas insureds) will one day have to pay the piper in the form of astronomical exhorbitant insurance rate increases, and their tempers, anxiety, and loss exposure will shoot higher than a NASA rocket.
Do I sound like a cynic?
(Message edited by dwongwhey on April 12, 2002) |
Ghostbuster
Member
Username: Ghostbuster
Post Number: 242
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 5:19 pm: | |
I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread or in the MOLD thread, but I think it goes in here...
OK, you bunch of horn dogs, the Ghostbuster is taking what the managerial psychologists refer to as a "proactive" tact. Ya wanna know what it is?...Well, do ya?...
Now let's widen the huddle so all can hear it the first time, cause I hate to chew my cud twice.
I am doing my level best to keep storm trooping alive. As some of you have gathered, I am doing underwriting inspections pending a storm callout, (tho here it is mid April and nothing yet.) Whenever an Insured is home, and it ain't often, they ask," Mr Ghostbuster, what should I do about the mold here at my humble abode?" I smile, I clear my throat, and I suggest in my best senatorial timbre, "Mr/Ms Fine Insured, please call your friendly agent and report a MOLD claim."
I am doing this to keep our industry alive, which is more than any of you ol' feather britches are doing. I is promoting job security for as many of the mold boys and girls as I can. The more claims reported, the longer our industry can survive. Also, when a storm does occur, the sooner those not on a mold crew will be sent out. This is a good thing.
Considering that each claim whether covered or not will generate a sizable income, you'd think some free lunches would be forthcoming for my sterling efforts, but none so far. That's OK, let's just call it good karma deposited in the soul bank.
Now, is there any thing else we can do to keep our lil pirate ship afloat?
(Message edited by Ghostbuster on April 12, 2002) |
mark salmon
Registered User
Username: Olderthendirt
Post Number: 155
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 2:32 am: | |
Tom, not all mold claims ae a crock, there are people who are suffering. How often does a company fail to do the proper dry out to often, and with the right conditions and a hot water leak mold can grow in 48 hours, and once in a while it's toxic. Like anything inside the greed is a core of need. But mold is difficult adjusting and what gold you get you earn. Just because we ignored something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |
Tom Toll
Registered User
Username: Tom
Post Number: 77
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:06 pm: | |
Jim, I have been in this business now for 41 years. I have seen the asbestos scare and now for this century it is the MOLD scare. It is a crock of bull, but if the insured public, PA's, and attorneys can make big bucks with the SCARE, they will pursue it to no end. I fear that this scare is going to put a phenominal hardship on policyowners in premium dollars. I am deeply concerned about the term MOLD IS GOLD. I am in hopes that adjusters will not become greedy like the other segments of society and just consider this as another sourch of income.
We have lived with mold since the existance of human kind. In fact, mold was on earth before the almighty decided to plant us here. Do the companies really owe for something that festers in almost every house in the United States of America. I don't think so. Hopefully this will settle down before it gets out of control. I have made a decent living for 41 years in this business without the assistance of mold. If an adjuster cannot make a living doing cat work on normal everyday cats, he needs to seek another vocation, or update his professionalism. |
Jim Docherty
Registered User
Username: Jim_docherty
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:28 am: | |
Just watched an article on Fox News Channel regarding McMahon's mold ( sounds like a T.V. show ). This is bad news for California insurance companies. Having worked southern California for 10 years and looked at 300-400 water claims a year we can expect a sharp spike in large claims with the coresponding need for adjusters to handle them. To me this is somewhat akin to the asbestos debacle of a few years ago when companies were caught with their pants down, overpaying and underpaying claims with the resulting litigation costs until standardized claims processing was introduced. Nobody shivers anymore when asbestos is mentioned and knows exactly what to do ( hopefully ). Anyway the upshot being there may well be lots of work in So Cal. this year unless insurance companies win what is sure to be a public relations battle. Something, which in the past, insurance companies have not achieved. |
Jim Docherty
Registered User
Username: Jim_docherty
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 5:07 pm: | |
I agree. I was working clean up in MO when ANDREW hit so couldn't go to FLA. 2 weeks later INIKI hit. Best money I ever made. What joy to see piles of files lying around an office and the claims manager tearing his hair out. OH happy days. It was so nice to get my petoot kissed for a change. These days will come again. Just hope it's soon. |
Roy Cupps
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 122
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:30 pm: | |
The quake crew is still here in the LA area working quake claims. While not hail or mold claims they are claims. I have been here since the CADO Convention and I do not believe Cat Adjusting is dead. It may be changing, but it is not dead. Just wait for a couple of large back-to-back storms, and then who are they going to call. A lot of good independent and staff adjusters are tied up on the mold claims and from the way things look they may not available for storm duty this year. |
Ghostbuster
Member
Username: Ghostbuster
Post Number: 241
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 10:36 pm: | |
Annnd, here we have it, Ladies, gentlemen, and assorted others. A true provocative statement, courtesy of our pal Mr Wray Decker and his sermonette.
Credible? Integrity and honesty are our stock in trade. But, saving $$$$? I would beg to restate that we, in fact, are here to spend the correct amount and NOT try to save anyones money. If there are any "savings" to be had, then it is the result of not overspending. For a company to abrogate it's basic responsibility by not using a claims department and adjusters for their proper function, that's what's so IN-Credible.
By the way, Wray, are you getting any.....work that is? |
Wray Decker
Registered User
Username: Wraydecker
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 10:10 pm: | |
Integrity and honesty will be the determining factor.If we save the insurance companies $$$$ we serve a purpose,let's strive to be credible. |
Kile Anderson
Registered User
Username: Kileanderson
Post Number: 143
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 9:23 pm: | |
I don't know about the profession or the industry as a whole, but this little cat adjuster won't make it very much longer unless the hail begins to fall very soon. |
D Wong Whey
Registered User
Username: Dwongwhey
Post Number: 99
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 9:14 pm: | |
Well, Miss Cleo thinks....... aw heck, I guess you better call her 900 number and find out for yourself..............don't want to spoil all your fun! |
mark salmon
Registered User
Username: Olderthendirt
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 9:13 pm: | |
Would be interesting to know how many cat adj are working mold and in how many states. I know that the numbers in Texas are large but how many in California? Are there any other states. Will mold experience be needed to work the big one in Florida? Not dead but maybe changing. |
Ghostbuster
Member
Username: Ghostbuster
Post Number: 240
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 8:37 pm: | |
Well, it's been six whole months since this thread of doomsday was initiated. Soooo...how are the portents of gloom doing so far? Is our industry dead or just dormant and about to blossom like the leaves on the trees?
Would any of the famous seers, sages, soothsayers and fortune tellers care to give us a status? Other than the mold boys and girls, are there any survivors actually working a storm?
Just thought I'd poke my head up out of the bunker o' fun and see what's going on. |
Santy-Man
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 12:42 pm: | |
Hey Ghost,
Great post, you hit the nail on the head. Just rattling the cages to see if anyone was "still" "out" there. Glad to see "they're back"!!!!
Do me a little research and let's find out whats the longest "hail only" storm and # of claims worked? i.e., 4 months--543-- I am quite interested in these numbers.
you have a great day and tell the wife that you are busy working, when on the computer, I am not apt to wind up in a jam, ha,a ha. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 11:34 am: | |
Doncha see, Santy-man, misery loves company. We as, storm troopers, are never happier than when we: 1. Have two hundred files of other peoples problems to solve, or 2. we can have a community complaint session. This is endemic of our core character. We are problem solvers, and when there are no problems to solve, we ain't happy.
So what do we do? Drag out the soapbox and proclaim to all the world how we know better than anyone else how to ...,(fill in the blank with your solution), to whatever it is the topic may be. That is what the forums are all about.
Face it, we are just plain bored. Our spouses are long past ready for us to get back on the road because they are fed up with our whining and sulking. And, when a buddy lands an assignment and we don't, then we really go off the deep end with jealousy.
So here we are. Whattya wanna complain about now? |
Santy-Man
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
I have noted that prior Turkey-Day postings with venom and anti-venom were being done, I think we all were antsy with no work. OH, the posts were flying. Here comes J.F, and then Ghost, and Alan, Kile, DWW, Claimsranger,and then the made up names. Everyone had an idea to create a conversation or fight or where we could go and make money.
Jest of most were, It's Roys fault, Jim Lakes fault, J. Flynt's fault, Alan, Tom, Dick and even Harriett. But truth be known, it was lack of weather related storms that kept us sitting on our buts. I know, we could go for the mold/gold or in house reviews or selling mags door to door. but truth be known, "A" storm "will" hit and all of us will hit the road and the posts will become a question about coverages,etc.
My point is that since prior Turkey-Day, Hardly any posts have been made, Is there another web site you guys are going to, or what.
Now, go out and face the day, and be careful out there. |
Santy-Man
| | Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 6:47 am: | |
Maybe this will give us a sign of relief!
If you (who have been there) remember back to early 70's i.e.71 and follow the years, you will see that when a lull hits it seems to stay until a big deal breaks. remember prior to Hugo, and then between hugo and andrew. all the NEW adjusters worked hugo, bought pickups and rolling in cash. almost broke when andrew hit.
It is just the wild ride nature of this business. the carriers are doing things different but I for one do not believe they can do without. Yes they can for a small deal, but give a "cane' a ride up the coast and bump fla,ga,s.c.,n.c,va and see the posts about all of us looking for places to stay,work,questions etc.
Hang in here guys, we can beat this thing. D.W.W. was correct War doesnt determine who is right, it is who is left, and time "will" tell.
It is now officially time to say Have a Nice Christmas with your family and be thankful for what we do have. |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 7:22 am: | |
"War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left." Confucius
What we have here is war. Only time will tell who is left. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 12:41 am: | |
Cat adjusting is not dying. There just really have not been concentrated Cat losses for some time. What has occurred has been spread out over space and time that permitted local IA’s or staff adjusters handle it. Jim Lakes’ post is very interesting.
Some large carriers are cutting seasoned staff adjusters. I am sure some lower quality Cat firms have left a bad taste in the mouth of some carriers making them associate declaring a CAT with having a root canal on every tooth in one sitting. Poor quality Cat adjusters have hurt Cat vendors that actually stand of high quality has been pointed out.
What is the real problem?
Negative cash flows! We all are aware that many carriers are losing 120% of the premiums they write and it is predicted to go to 140% loss in the future. Which carriers in general are hit the hardest? It seems to be the ones that are real big in homeowners’ coverage’s.
Guess what which group most Cat vendors work for?
In the USA Today they were talking about Zero (0%) percent returns in some of the money market funds. I am sure some are wishing they were on a “fixed income: instead of one approaching Zero.
Guess who loss a big chuck of the $5 trillion that vaporized from the equity markets peak? How many years will the DJIA stay in the 8K – 10K trading range if prophets are correct? What happens if the 8K fence is broken down?
Money market funds paying Zero % is no fun but you are only loosing the rate of inflation. If true deflation sets in then you are actually making money with a return of 0%, who would have ever thought.
Park your money in the stock market and you make earn the same 0% but you could also over the next couple years (+/-) loss 0 – 100% of your cash invested in the worse case scenario.
Most likely neither the best case or worse case scenario will play out but we all are working for or would like to be working for that are experiencing strong negative cash flows perhaps. People making $50K to $5 Million+ will be losing their jobs and be out on the street. When you are the CFO and know if you do NOTHING you are going to loss your job, home and country club membership what do you do?
SOMETHING! Most likely you are going to second guess yourself and go a lot of things even before you know if the last thing you did was working or not.
Guys with some big but weak firms writing homeowners coverage at a big loss it just does not make them idea to look to insure your own personal positive cash flow. Better days, years, decades or something is coming I am sure.
Just like the tech bubble had to burst before the healing could start and most likely will continue for a while the same thing may have to happen to some big name players in the homeowners market. From what some adjusters that just have been turned out by some well known names tell me the rot is deep in some cases and that more “forced” consolidations can be expected. Firms that are over staffed by 50% based on their current claims handling needs will not continued to be over staffed for too long.
Guess what the displaced staff adjusters do? Come together and create yet another adjusting firm that has “good” friends still on the inside. They do not have to go through the front door when marketing to get CAT and overflow work because they get let in the side door.
Jim was very correct when he said, “Things they are a changing!” Please stay tuned. |
Oldtimer
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 10:29 pm: | |
Speaking of great adjusting deals, I received this Email today from Boyle Claims. Dont everybody jump on this at once !!!
COLD WEATHER warm up: Have an offer available to provide 3 people to work inside a national cat center. Training class to familiarize the people with systems, etc., will start 12/10/01. Rate paid to the adjuster will be $1500 per week + a $250 weekly per diem for a total of $1750.00 - includes the same rate for training time. The hours worked are 7:30am - 6:00pm - expandable if necessary by volume influx for Saturdays & Sundays. Extended stay facility runs $329 weekly near the area so living costs can be cut.
Need good telephone skills, computer skills and technical background to answer & field questions from insured's, supplements, etc. If interested, please contact me ASAP so we can put your resume together for consideration.
Regards,
Art Boyle |
JimLakes (Jimlakes)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 2:31 pm: | |
To All,
Clayton is right on the mark. Not only do we stress “Quality” to the carriers but in almost every post that I make I try to bring it up at least once.
He is also right in that it is a hard sell to the carriers. They hear it from every vendor. The sad part is that when we do make the sell and then try to use a new Cat adjuster to build your base so as not play favorites and he screws up the claims so bad that 95% of them have to be re-worked, you don’t know whether to shoot him or yourself. And, if you don’t think this happens, you are dead wrong.
We have recently discussed issues with a couple of carriers and one of the large carriers that just within the last year opened its new “Cat” office is closing it by the end of the year and turning all catastrophes back to the local branches for their disposition. They are still maintaining a “Cat” staff of (15) or so Cat adjusters but are not going to increase that staff. No one seems to know why this is happening or will not tell, if they do.
I find this very interesting. One big reason for this move, I believe, is that there have been no large hurricanes or major catastrophes, save 9/11, which we all know why we are not getting any of those claims, in several years and the staffing increase was to expensive. Remember, it is all about the money. “BEAN COUNTERS!”
In speaking with two other mid-sized carriers, they have cut back on their agents, tightened their underwriting severely, and pulled out of many states and still maintained there adjusting staff. One carrier in one region for example, has a staff for 3,500 claims a month and they are now only receiving 2,000 per month, due to the changes. Do I need to say what this does for vendors and IA’s.
“Things they are a changing!” Please stay tuned.
Jim Lakes RPA
National Catastrophe Director
RAC Adjustments, Inc.
866.241.6574 |
beenthere
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:28 pm: | |
Welcome to the free enterprise system my friends.
As we speak another vendor is "marketing" an insurance company. They stress number of adjusters, quality of service, great communication skills. And last but not least here is the fee schedule we can do it cheaper.
We can delude ourselves into thinking that traning - certifications - licenses matter. But look at alot of the vendors that used to be top notch. Alot of adjusters will not even return their calls because of the various games that have been played.
I am not slamming them or bitter - I belive it or not am a good politician. Show up do the job - be nice - keep my mouth shut. It just makes me sick how we are letting our selves get screwed by a system that is so inadequate.
It is imperative to set ourselves up as a lobbying force in this game. We cant organize - we can't seem to agree on anything other than - less call outs - same fee set up - more and more requests. All the while the same $.
Gale was right. what does the vendor have to worry about? 1000 claims = 40k at 100$ a pop. How long does it take? as many hungry adjusters it takes to do them. divide it any way you want -we get the same 60k to split.
In closing have read the user agreement and I feel that I have followed it always.
Now merry xmas  |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 7:15 am: | |
And speaking of dead and fried meat, if I don't get on the road soon, I will be.
From west coast, storm reports said the Santa Ana blew in San Bernadino and the wind blew in San Francisco. In Dixie, hail fell and winds blew.
IS ANYBODY GETTING CALLED OUT??? I'm starting to get used to driving the septic service truck and that ain't good. |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 2:27 am: | |
Gee,
It worked my friend, although Clayton is not a sharpshooter, he at least hits the target.
Clayton, believe me, that is not a slam, but you are deleving into an issue that has been going on for as long as CADO has existed.
Check the archieves, postings by Dave Hood, Jim Flynt, Tom Toll, Chuck Deaton, Jim Lakes, Ghostbuster, hell I could go on, but the point is much like you are trying to get to.
My post was in an offhand way to try to get a responce, much like Jim Lakes and Jim Flynt, Ghostbuster, and many others.
From past postings I believe you are fairly new to the particular career we are involved in. By new and I am not being a wiseguy, many of these people have over 20 years experience, well educated, certified and sometime certifiedable, but have the "been there and done that experience". Many of their posts are to educate and and in their own way, provoke adjusters to think and motivate themselves.
Thank you for the responce, you seem to care about the profession, please keep in mind where we have been and where we are trying to go to.
Tom Joyce
903-832-0467 |
Clayton Carr (Clayton)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 1:12 am: | |
One suggests we are all bored, the other says life is short; quite a contradiction. I personally can not relate to 'bored' whether at work or play. I had to look it up in my Oxford to see what it really meant as opposed to what some may infer by it - "weary and uninterested because something is so dull". Isn't that quite a statement to make in this forum that suggests our livelihood will be a history lesson in two years. Tom, my reference to your post is not a smack; but I wanted to use it to illustrate my point. If the "why's" of the suggested demise are not worthy of further thought, commentary and some attempt to resolve; perhaps people missed the provocative statement by Jim Flynt on another forum questioning why only 6 'cat adjusters' have been deployed to the worst insurance disaster in history. As for the continuous offerings of little value and no substance from the 'wong whey', I must agree that life is short; but the journey should have some meaning along the way. Your attempt to use 'bait' as a noun only serves to frustrate me further, and I guess I've inhaled it as an off topic verb.
If the absence of meaningful dialogue on how to address this issue is any indication, then to anyone reading this forum, they must conclude that the rank and file of the 'cat adjuster' community is not concerned with their shrinking stature in the insurance world; or if perhaps they silently are, they have no opinion or suggestion on how to slow, stop or otherwise reverse this trend.
Carriers for many valid reasons are reducing, eliminating or altering their previous dependency on 'cat adjusters'. IA vendors who are not dependent solely on 'day to day' claims work are our marketers in the field. The 'vigorish' of the cat vendor used to be their ability to sell a product on quality, not price. That product (US) came with a reputation and a level of 'towering competence' not equalled by any other resource base ('non-cat' adjuster). Part of their 30-40% that they keep of the fees are used as Jim Lakes states for marketing. Somewhere between, or a combination of the 'warm body syndrome', the so called 'one peril adjuster', and the 'hey look I got a license and it only took me day' scenario; we as a community have allowed our professional standards to decline - likely because as you hold so firmly to all your threads of 'independence', you can not see the path or the value of the journey to actually have professional standards as a community - and at the same time have not recognized that the carriers having no time or interest to deal with or attempt to address our pitfalls, has chosen to deal with their claims numbers in another way.
It serves no useful purpose for us to banter as to our opinion of the 'wrong' direction the carrier may be taking. We should as a community expend our energy and thoughts into how we again can become a reliable and viable professional alternative, in response to a carriers needs.
We should liaise with cat vendors to understand the issues they face in marketing US, through THEM. Only using Jim Lakes as a generic example, but I'm sure his first thrust to carriers is the professional strength and management of RAC, then followed closely in there with the quality of the people doing the work. Again, not at all inferring Jim's company, but this must be a tough sell to market. The horror stories throughout the forums from time to time on 'clean up' and 'reopen' work, is as tarnishing to each of us as any 'product' recall would be. This is akin to warranty work and costs the industry far too much. If the work is done right the first time, the 'product' has value and becomes a reliable commodity.
despite any person's rant about their stature as an independent contractor doing 'cat claims', something ingrained into me many many years ago still seems valid; "YOU are only ever as good as your last claim". "YOU" is me and the rest of this community, each of our field efforts is a relection on each other. |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:46 am: | |
Well, here I go again, as my daughter blew me off the internet and the note was lost.
Easy, rib steak, medium rare, with salad, some greens and maybe a spud. Possibly a decent cold one, or two.
In the old days of Northridge, which according to recent court ruling will probably be around to the next century a group of adjusters working with Pilot/Farmers ended up in a local pillow motel/notel. The owner was great as we adjusted the rooms as we wanted, put in additional phone lines, etc.
He repaced the mattresses, and provided whatever he could to assist us. Of course in six months his books showed a great increase in profits and he was able to sell the place at a huge profit.
Well back to the question sent to me by someone thinly cloaked.
After events settled down, my wife, and several others, mainly me, were tired of resturants, driving around after working all day. So we picked up some hibachi grills, a bunch of steaks, greens, salad makings, some beverages, and of course charchol.
We set up a kitchen on the second floor balcony using folding tables, chairs, coolers, grills and started cooking.
After the owner and the fire department got over it, adjusters who were pulling in from a long day and on the way to their rooms saw us cooking, they were waved aboard as all were invited. Enjoyment was had by all the first night.
This turned into a common occurance and we just asked that people bring something to contribute as Tommy H. and myself were usually springing for the steaks or other meats.
It was nothing to see twenty or thirty adjusters sitting around relaxing after an enjoyable day in LA. Kinda of like sitting on your porch t home with friends.
I guess the point is the best food is food shared with people and friends in a common situation.
The job can be made a tad easier if we work together, help each other, and hope to god someone can cook
That is the best steaks I ever had my friend from where Yankees don't fenture, unless there is enough work.
I have lone wolfed for awhile now as I don't agree with many of the "claim handling practices associated with flooding in adjusters to a scene with unknown amount of work". I also feel that if the company wants an ADJUSTER, pay for it, if they want an estimator or appraisor, fine, but don't ask them to adjust the claim based on schedules set for providing an estimate.
I have wandered and I'm sure this will put some black checks on my name. But been there, and it is about time that you all start standing up as a community and protecting yourselves.
Hell, I know there is limited work and in responce to a post by Alan Jackson, the answer is easy, too many adjusters trying to make a living working cats, but damn few cats. Gee, do you think companies and vendors figured that out and that is why the rates have gone down the crapper???
Although this is not the correct area, in responce to Jim Lakes, it is a sorry situation when you are asked to adjust a claim based on the companies verbal "it is covered". That situation has bitten more adjusters on the ass than most anything I can think of (at the level of adjusting we spoke about).
Well, time to retire, but gettig back to the question to me by someone from '-----------' Any meal is enjoyable shared in a relaxed setting, sometimes we just need to tune down on storm and as it is our temporary home with new friends, enjoy it as such.
Tom Joyce
903-832-0467 |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:36 pm: | |
Ok Tom, I'll take your bait. What's your beef? Filet, T-bone or ribeye? Rare, medium or well done?
Just out of curiosity where was the best steak you ever had while out on the road on assignment? |
Tom Joyce (Tomj)
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:21 pm: | |
The stakes also sharp and painful.
So damn the doctors and enjoy steaks when you can.
( Guess we are ALL bored to death) |
D Wong Whey (Dwongwhey)
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 9:39 pm: | |
Life is short.
Hell is hot.
The stakes are high. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 9:02 pm: | |
Carriers seem to be interested in the approach were the contractor pays the adjuster of the loss a percentage so there is no adjusting fees for the carrier to pay. Not bad when there is no claims handling expenses that cannot be recouped. How is that for a triple negative! |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 8:28 pm: | |
Is this deja-vu and treja-vu all over again? If it is, that's okay, cattle regurgitate and re-chew their cud all the time.
Are we interpreting these signs correctly? Granted the local IA's are taking a beating, but when a storm hits and 10,000 losses land on the doorstep, we are still the ones that get the call to come in & save the day. Has that scenario been changed in the past 12 hours?
Yeah, I know that Big Red has a passel of kids at the storm call center trying to handle what they can, but we're still doing test squares out here. And, I have received more than a few half worked files that some telephone kid tried to work the file but couldn't.
Please, if you have some scoop on carrier storm procedures in the works, share it with us. We do have time here on our hands. It's not like their is a hurricane to go to. |
Roger 2
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 10:57 pm: | |
The name of the game is quality and satisfaction of the job you are doing. If you can go to bed at night knowing you did the best you could do that day-that feeling will spill over into your work and you will find you can do the work and satisy the Company. |
Clayton Carr (Clayton)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 11:28 pm: | |
Ghost, this claim call center concept is spreading rapidly. It is another item on the list that gravely and quite seriously concerns the topic of this thread.
There are 3 large carriers up here on my side of the border that have gone this route in the last two years or so, and the carriers are embracing it.
One of interest, is the Zurich Insurance company. In Hamilton, an hour from Toronto, lies the Zurich system. I say a system because they outsourced it by contract to Cunningham Lindsey.
Zurich Canada was in 2000 the 13th largest (only a total market share of 2.9%)general writer in Canada, with about $600 Million in NET written premiums, with a combined loss and expense ratio of 125%, but their $115M in investment income gave then a return on equity of 3.03% - a bit more than I get on my piddly savings account in a traditional bank. Therefore they are a significant player with their Canadian "Profit Center", but not a major player.
Now don't sit back and envision an office floor full of adjusters, but instead the smiling faces of young adults; mostly fresh out of Community College - there first real job.
So it can not be suggested that I am painting a jaded picture, I quote from the January 2001 edition of a trade mag - Canadian Underwriter.
".... the recent advancement of outsourcing within the P&C industry .... prompted the OSFI (our DOI) to issue a 'Best Practices for Outsourcing' guideline. .... as an industry little appears to have been done in researching potential efficiencies of outsourcing, and for that matter, inefficiencies that may arise in doing so. ..... Zurich therefore surprised many in the industry when, in November last year (2000), the insurer announced it will outsource it's "express claims" and call center for the initial reporting of claims functions to Cunningham Lindsey Canada Ltd., a global third party claims management administrator. Express claims which average less than 30 days for settlement and do not involve any form of litigation with payouts rarely exceeding a $10,000 threshold for auto and $6,000 for property, account for about 2/3 of Zurich's claims volume. In doing so, Zurich is transferring approximately 65% of the 75,000 claims it handles each year ....".
Having some knowledge of the fee structure for this and the potential 'bonus' built into the contract for 'quick' closing, let me suggest to you - that at this time - Zurich is laughing and the zeal of CL has worn off. The "laughing" vs "lack of zeal" relate to the the parties costs on one side of the deal and expenses of the other party. |
Ghostbuster (Ghostbuster)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 9:19 pm: | |
Folks, we're getting off topic.
Back to it. Before all us Chicken Littles go off half cocked and start new careers. Why don't we see if the carriers are going to change SIGNIFICANTLY their cat-plans?
Just for fun, I visited The Hartford today and learned they are expanding their call in center from 25 people to about 45 people to take loss reports. Their personnel honcho, Ms Buck, says they are also looking to expand the role to allow these non-adjusters to authorize rent cars, send out appraisers, and approved contractors to look at a loss. This is a nationwide call center for personal lines. Their commercial call center is in Chicago.
Would someone else like to investigate another carrier? |
alan jackson (Ajackson)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 7:54 pm: | |
Boys and Girls:
I can crank out 200+ hail claims a month. This equals about 7 per day. Plan your work and work your plan. I can provide refrences for this type of volume. I'm usally the first out of state guy they call. And usually when the storm is over they ask me to stay over and do reinspections for inhouse quality control. Let me get the okay next week and I'll post the vendors name for those of you who wish to verify. By the way this is solo. If you do not have to fill out a 3 page roof report then this is a breeze.
This vendor has wind and hail down to a science. |
Clayton Carr
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 5:09 pm: | |
This is not a follow up on this new thread that Jim created from my quote on another thread; just some thoughts resulting from Gale's comments.
When I first saw Gale's post I thought - yea right! - big piece of the story missing?
Later, like Cecelia, I puched my calculator for awhile. Still can not give much credability to the story related by Gale.
Folks, it all comes down to Jim Lake's clear thoughts today - on the issue of QUALITY.
I can only hope, and I hope all those that read the story Gale was relating, that they also earnestly hope; that if ANY VENDOR had someone walk in after 30 days to present 100 closed files of the type Gale speaks of, or two more handfuls that made up 100 for that month; that large and bright red flags would wave in several people's faces as alarms, bells, and sirens blared - resulting in a serious review and appropriate action. |
mark (Olderthendirt)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 4:39 pm: | |
Equation changes as to acceptable re-opening rate. 3% reopenings might be acceptible, but in this case I would expect 97%. If an adjuster never called an insured, just sent a form letter saying I will inspect, and will mail you my estimate, if he climbed but eye balled all measurments and he had all the files up front, if he didn't sleep or eat he might do it. |
Martin Arguello
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 3:52 pm: | |
RE: 300 files per month. Of course, you are all assuming that this is an adjuster working solo. The equation changes dramatically if it is a husband/wife team or any 2/3 team. |
Cecelia
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 2:01 pm: | |
I would tend to agree with Jim on this one. Even a simple hail storm with losses all in the same area and even some roofs that are the exact floor plan as others in the area (which makes measuring easy if you keep copies of your scopes)would not lend itself to 300 claims in one month. Even using a macro in the computer wouldn't really make this possible.
7 days X 24 hrs in a day is 168 hrs per week. Less 6 hrs per day for sleep, going potty, hitting a drive through at least twice a day for food (and eating while driving), going potty, shower, shaving (men) or blow drying (women), laundry (either driving to and from a fluff and fold or doing it yourself on premises), purchasing supplies you've run out of (cartridges, paper), putting gas in the car, well, maybe all this could be done in 6 hrs a day. And we all can put in 18 hrs a day for a full month without collapsing.
This thread is called "Will Cat Adjusting Be Dead". The answer is Yes, if this is the way we work files. Plain and simple. I wonder how many of these files will reopen? |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 10:25 am: | |
Jim perhaps there is a BS factor at work in this case. Being hail losses scopes may only take 20 minutes and the average computer time was reported to be 40 minutes for the estimate and all of the reports so that is 75 hours per week before drive time. By traveling at the speed of light it can be done if you think about it. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 1:28 am: | |
Gale, you posted the following quote in your earlier post:
"Talked to a one man office that closed 300 files in OCT that were in the $5K+ average range but he was doing a lot of 18 hour days on T&E."
By my math, 300 claims divided by 30 days equals 10 closed files per day. 18 hours per day divided by 10 claims per day equals 1.8 hours per claim. Assuming you are correct, your one adjuster (or 'one man shop' as you noted) thus spent an average grand total of 1.8 hours per $5,000.00+ average claim. This 1.8 hours per claim would include reaching the N/I, discussing the loss and setting the appointment, travel to and from the loss, meeting and discussing the loss, claim and policy information with the N/I, scoping and writing an estimate, mounting and labelling photos, phoning to reach an agreed value with N/I, working with contractors and reaching agreed price where applicable, final reporting to the carrier, and preparing and sending a billing statement.
In one word, this one man shop is either providing the worst service imaginable in all of America or has a healthy dose of fantasy masquerading as BS, which you failed to see.
Just think about it Gale. It would be impossible to say the least.
I'm sure the only reason your man didn't bill the insurance carrier for 28 hours per day was because he had to take an hour off for lunch. |
Gale Hawkins (Gale)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 12:50 am: | |
Is the Cat industry as you knew it in 1999 or 1995? If Cat companies were to list their gross it would tell the story. Did not someone list a firms volume for several years recently that the IRS made public in a court case?
Many IA firms are on a tear all of 2001. Talked to a one man office that closed 300 files in OCT that were in the $5K+ average range but he was doing a lot of 18 hour days on T&E. |
Jim Flynt (Jimflynt)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 9:46 pm: | |
"I think the 'Cat adjusting business', the source of income for independent contractor (cat) adjusters; must fundamently change in style, perception, type of work sought, and operational technique. I believe this change must occur in 2002 with early momentum; or the cat industry as you know it will no longer exist in two years."
Clayton Carr
(Reprinted from another CADO Forum thread) |
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