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Last Post 09/15/2008 2:57 PM by  Medulus
Thoughts from A Staff Adjuster
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steph9176
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08/21/2008 12:17 PM

    Lots of people must have gotten out of independant adjusting this year. Since Dolly almost every roster I signed up for has called asking me to be on call.  As most of you know, I took a job with a carrier about 10 months ago.

    I'm in worker's comp but I'm part of the Enterprise Response Team so I go out on Cat's. The other day I was adding it all up. As ERT with the cat pay and overtime with no personal expenses because thry are pai by the carrier, I think I actually come out better than being independant. Not to mention, Medulus was right. The training from a real carrier is 100 times better than any of the "adjusting schools" out there give.

    Granted self employment has advantages, the staff job is much cushier and it comes with benefits.

    All the "schools" out there make it sound like you will rake in $100k per month but that is far from the truth. The older adjusters do make decent money WHEN there is a cat but they know what they are doing. A new person will spend half their time spinning their wheels.

    I also noticed something else. Half my class when I went to the "school" were roofers. Most of them had 0 education past junior high and couldn't write a complete, legible sentence. The carriers will not accept work they can not read and does not look professional.

    Going to the school did help with my resume. The person I interviewed with did like that I had tried to learn the business on my own since it was a new career for me.

    Also, it can be expensive to get into IA. You have to buy all your own supplies, tools, and have enough money to support yourself until you do get your first break. I remember several people in my classes that dropped out when they realized they would need at least 5k in tools for the job as well as reliable transportation before they were ever sent on a job. It's not a cheap profession to get into.

    All the little schools out there really irk me too. They don't tell their students the most important things they should know. They almost blatantly lie just to get people to buy their classes. Most are inependant adjusters supporting themsleves through thin times. The minute there is a cat, they are gone and they cancel all classes so they aren't in it to really educate anyone.

    Something to think about for all the newbies trying to get into IA.

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    magnoliaadj
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    08/21/2008 12:35 PM

    Mnay truths in your post Stephanie

    Independent has the main advantage of less day to day BS for the sake of BS, which is extremely important to me.

     

    Edited to add:  There is still suffficient BS as an independent, just that my BS tolerability is low and the less I have to deal with the better.

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    johnpostava
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    08/21/2008 3:03 PM

    The best claims school out there is Vale National. That's where I got my training over 20 years ago and they are still in business. I understand Wardlaw has a great newfacility which is a full time operation for this large independent firm. Also, Southern Farm Bureau has a super operation in Jackson, MS. None of these operations will be "folding up their tents" when a storm comes in. Actually we have had Fay over our heads here in Orlando for THREE DAYS. Today is the worst one yet....

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    steph9176
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    08/21/2008 5:03 PM
    I actually hadn't thought about Vail. More the ones that advertise all over the place that they will make you a millionaire in a year
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    rbryanhines
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    08/21/2008 5:28 PM
    Stephanie
    Some of your poiints are true but it almost sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that you made the right choice. I think its a personal choice. I have been offered a staff job several times and have always declined. I'm not saying its a bad field its just not for me.
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    steph9176
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    08/21/2008 5:30 PM

    No, not trying to convince myself. I'm very happy. I just wish someone had tol me all of this in the beginning

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    Medulus
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    08/21/2008 7:21 PM
    Just to set the record straight, Stephanie, I did encourage you to let a carrier train you at their expense. I don't remember saying that they would train you 100 times better than any other school. In fact many carriers send their people to Vale for training. That's how I ended up spending a year in Fresno during one two week period a couple decades ago.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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    MalviLennon
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    08/21/2008 9:32 PM
    Stephanie:
    Congrats! as a former company adjuster I agree that there are benefits, such as paid continuing education, company paid travel expenses, paid vacations, health insurance and 401Ks to name a few I/A's will never have. However, neither career path is all good or all bad. It is also true that not everyone can work for a company, and not every company adjuster will make a good I/A. It is a matter of personal choice, opportunity, and willingness to take risks. However, there is one statement in your post that I have to disagree with. You say: "I wish I were told these things before". If there is one subject matter discussed repeatedly is the down side of being an I/A. Is there a possibility that you were told, and perhaps you chose not to hear it? One piece of advice I have heard repeatedly is "don't leave a steady job for the lure of the big bucks. If you do, you will be disappointed. People on these sites are very open when it comes to sharing their struggles (and success). On the corporate side do not fall prey to the fairly tale of the “cushy company job”. Company adjusters work may long hours, for the same money (no bonus, no O/T, no billing) just the paycheck. Sometimes the work environment can be so toxic that the “cushy benefits” feel more like the chains that hold prisoner, confined in the gold cage of the corporate world. Once again congratulations on the job and good luck.
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    steph9176
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    08/21/2008 11:53 PM

    Posted By Steve Ebner on 08/21/2008 7:21 PM
    Just to set the record straight, Stephanie, I did encourage you to let a carrier train you at their expense. I don't remember saying that they would train you 100 times better than any other school. In fact many carriers send their people to Vale for training. That's how I ended up spending a year in Fresno during one two week period a couple decades ago.

     

    No, sorry about that. You didn't say it would be 100 times better. I meant I thought the training was that much better. I've noticed lots of things they taught at the school were untrue though.

    Like I said, I wasn't thinking of Vail when I posted this. I was talking about all the new ones that have sprung up in the last few years. I've never heard anything bad about Vail.

     

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    HuskerCat
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    08/21/2008 11:55 PM

    Kinda goes back to the old "grass is greener" story that I've related before.  There are 4 stages an adjuster can take, in no particular order, but usually somewhat in this order as mine has gone:  a resident staffer, an office staffer, a salaried  or commissioned branch IA, and then self-employed IA.  Got all the free training as a newbie staffer, plus the perks & benefits.  While being a resident staffer (working from home), had the independence of setting my own hours like an independent while also becoming a slave to my job because it was always there in my face with no backup.  So when a vacation came around, it often involved working nights or over the weekend, I was usually in the office anyway just to keep up or ahead.  

    The staffer job had regular hours & no stacks looking at you at home, but once a local storm hit..you are a salaried guy so work whatever hours it takes and same pay applies no matter what .

    The branch IA salaried position was the same, until dry periods hit & they took away salary and put me on commish at a whims notice along with termination of benefits.  And then once things picked up, they expected you to conform to normal office opening hours even if you had worked all weekend & evenings.  I told them to stick it up you know where when they got upset I didn't come into the office one Monday morning by 8:30.  Had 20 billable hours over the prior weekend, let alone the evening work I had scheduled to come.  And, this was not even in a cat situation. That's when stage 4 comes about for most.  It might have something to do with what Jim Stewart mentioned in a separate post.  So, it's pretty easy, pick your poison but know first what are the the expectations and how you will be rewarded for them. 

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    steph9176
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    08/22/2008 12:01 AM

    Posted By Malvi Lennon on 08/21/2008 9:32 PM
    Stephanie:
    Congrats! as a former company adjuster I agree that there are benefits, such as paid continuing education, company paid travel expenses, paid vacations, health insurance and 401Ks to name a few I/A's will never have. However, neither career path is all good or all bad. It is also true that not everyone can work for a company, and not every company adjuster will make a good I/A. It is a matter of personal choice, opportunity, and willingness to take risks. However, there is one statement in your post that I have to disagree with. You say: "I wish I were told these things before". If there is one subject matter discussed repeatedly is the down side of being an I/A. Is there a possibility that you were told, and perhaps you chose not to hear it? One piece of advice I have heard repeatedly is "don't leave a steady job for the lure of the big bucks. If you do, you will be disappointed. People on these sites are very open when it comes to sharing their struggles (and success). On the corporate side do not fall prey to the fairly tale of the “cushy company job”. Company adjusters work may long hours, for the same money (no bonus, no O/T, no billing) just the paycheck. Sometimes the work environment can be so toxic that the “cushy benefits” feel more like the chains that hold prisoner, confined in the gold cage of the corporate world. Once again congratulations on the job and good luck.

     

    True, there are pros and cons to both. Honestly I did listen when others talked about the down side of IA but I took it with a grain of salt becaiuse of the way it was said. Most of the "advice" was given by people on this site who are very bitter toward new IA's. JUst seemed like they were trying to scare others off as more of a competition thing.

    I have not fallen prey. The carrier I work for is a performance based company. If you do a great job, you are rewarded. If you are lazy, you won't get far.

    All the adjusters I work with get overtime. The only ones who do not are senior adjusters or managment. We get bonuses twice per year.

    If I am on a cat we get time and a half, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can stay on a cat for a min of 2 wks or stay until the end. You also get a generous daily cat pay.

    I know that the carriers changed their pay scales and overtime a few years ago due to some federal lawsuit.

     

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    rbryanhines
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    08/22/2008 11:20 AM
    "Honestly I did listen when others talked about the down side of IA but I took it with a grain of salt becaiuse of the way it was said. Most of the "advice" was given by people on this site who are very bitter toward new IA's. JUst seemed like they were trying to scare others off as more of a competition thing."

    The problem is you should not have taken the advice with any salt. You should have taken it straight up. Your desire to be a IA clouded your judgement of others. I know some of the veteran IAs on this board (I have 16 years experience and don't consider myself part of this group as I am still learning) and I can tell you most are not bitter or in fear of the competition.

    Most of the true IAs don't seek cushy jobs . They would rather be compensated for their hard work and knowledege.

    It is sad but when the veteran adjusters share their insight on this board it is taken as negative if it doesn't match up with ones own thought process.


    Just mt thoughts, no harm intended
    Good Luck
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    Tom Toll
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    08/22/2008 1:09 PM

    Bryan, your absolutely right in your observations. Some ol timers don't want to help newbies as that may reduce their claim assignments. Overall, I think the majority of us ol timers are refreshed to see newbies, as this field of endeavor must carry on after we are dead and buried. What I am concerned about is the new adjuster who knows it all, but in actuality, knows very little and performs minimally. FIG has cut off IA's due to the inferior work of many newbies, even though the warm bodies were necessary in Katrina. There were many files that were horrible, there again, I saw some work from experienced adjusters that were horrible. A positve attitude, with dignity, perserverence, character and integrity seems to have been lost with the new generation, not all, but too many.

    I think Stephane did the right thing by taking on the new position. I learned the majority of my knowledge while working six years for Southern Farm Bureau and much more when I went IA with a large IA firm in Little Rock. Farm bureau sent me to their tech school in Jackson and I learned a lot. When becoming an IA, Vale Tech taught me much. I have always been eager for knowledge and have never been satisifed to be mediocre. I encourage all new adjusters to not sit on their butts and take the bull by the horns and learn one new thing each day. What if Roy Cupps had been mediocre, where would CADO be, it wouldn't. CADO has been an inspiration to me and many others. What if my wife Janice was mediocre, she would not be the outstanding adjuster that she is now. Pride, enthusiasm, and attitude, plays a key role on who we become.

    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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    Jud G.
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    08/22/2008 4:56 PM

    The big lesson I've learned from working both sides is that the carrier and IA sides are very different and suit different people.  The important thing to know is which one suits you best.  Secondly, strive to maintain the attitude that empowers you to have options and to be versatile during the most difficult of times.

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    Ray Hall
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    08/23/2008 12:18 PM

    This is my thinking. I was trained by insurance companys for several years in Fire,  IM,Casualty, Fidelity, WC and Bond Lines. I Think SOME contractors make good catastrophe adjusters. I thing people like myself and all the staff adjusters working in the world, think if you were not company trained you may call yourself an IA, but you are not one.

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    HuskerCat
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    08/23/2008 10:50 PM

    Thanks for chirping up there Ray, after saying you were going to put in the cork.  Do everyone a favor and throw your cork away.  Keep on a 'chirpin.

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    ranger
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    08/24/2008 11:14 AM
    When I was a staff adjuster for Crum & Forster I worked Auto, Fire, IM, Casualty, Fidelity, WC and Bond lines. When I worked for Farmers it was Homeowners and Fire Policies. I worked as a temp adjuster for Fireman's Fund handling Marine and Builder's Risk.
    As an IA I have worked Georges, Ivan, Katrina and Wilma. I have made good money working hurricanes and I have been away from home for four months without being allowed to come home. My wife does not want to be away for four months without coming home.
    There has not been a hurricane for two years and it is times like this that I believe I would have been better off remaining a staff adjuster with a 401K, retirement, medical benefits for my family, company car and an expense account.
    I thought I would be a Super Adjuster, having all of the staff adjuster training, working my first hurricane and I was wrong. There are a lot of secrets held by experienced Cat Adjusters that it has taken four hurricanes to get what I know now. No IA wants to reveal their speed secreets as they fear this will cut down on their claim assignments. I have not met any Super Cat Adjusters that would reveal all of their speed secrets for closing claims at one time or one hurricane.
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    okclarryd
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    08/24/2008 6:46 PM

    Well, ya know, ...............ya gotta pay for your education.

    I worked beside some very fast and good adjusters.  Only when they had confidence in me, in who I am, did they impart what knowledge they wanted to share with me.

    I have tried to be a mentor to many adjusters through the years and it seems most of them want to argue the point at hand.  Those few that actually listened to what I might have to say have become my friends and I'll get out in the rain and hold the umbrella for them while they change a flat.

    I can only assume the others are still arguing the point.

    Larry D Hardin
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    dees0066
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    09/15/2008 1:19 AM
    Stephanie,
    I was a roofer. I also have a degree in finance. I am an IA but I am also involved in two other lines of business for the off-season. I know the roofing industry has a bad reputation, however there are a few of us that still have all of our teeth and the ability to correctly utilize the average laptop. I might even put my neck out there and say having a background in construction is a real benefit in this profession. Afterall, adjusting a loss without ever performing the trade is similiar to writing a book report on a book you didnt read. Ok, now for the onslaught. Im sure a few adjusters will not appreciate my comments and I am sure many others (probably those with a background in construction) will agree.
    -W. D.
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    Medulus
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    09/15/2008 1:05 PM
    William,

    I came to adjusting from the other direction. I was a claim adjuster first - in fact, an auto claim adjuster first. I had a lot of construction knowledge to catch up on when I began adjusting buildings and the like. I learned quite a bit by keeping my mouth shut and letting contractors explain things to me. I can also respect a roofer who chooses to become an adjuster as long as that roofer is willing to learn insurance policies, coverages, and practices with the same degree of diligence.
    Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM

    "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)
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