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Last Post 01/22/2007 12:25 PM by  Tom Rongstad
Liability Insurance?
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TXAD
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12/04/2006 9:34 PM
    As a new adjuster, I'm trying to get all of my ducks in a row before I'm needed.  I know I'll need liability insurane (O&P?) but I was never told where to get it.  Is that something that me regular provider, i'e' State farm, would carry?
    leaanddan
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    12/05/2006 8:40 AM
    Bud,

    The insurance you are looking for is called Errors & Ommissions liability insurance (E&O) and it depends on who you work for as to whether or not you need to buy it. Some vendors carry a blanket policy that covers their IA's while others require the IA's to cover themselves. Your insurance agent can give you a quote and advise you as to the limits you should carry. Some adjusters carry general liability insurance as well and you can find more info on that subject in the archives. Good luck!
    Work Hard - Play Hard
    TXAD
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    12/05/2006 10:59 PM
    Thanks for your help.
    Have a wonderful Christmas.
    HuskerCat
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    12/06/2006 2:06 AM
    That was nice of you, Danny...good advice.   
    cantonking
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    12/06/2006 5:21 PM
    Bud,

    You might have just as well said “I just got my license what next”. One of my peeves is wannabes with no initiative. I’ll bet you heard that if you got your license, laptop and ladder you can get rich. Whenever I embark on a new endeavor I try to learn as much about the subject as I can in order to at least be able to “talk the talk”.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

    The answer to every question you have is buried in the archives. If you will take the time to read them you will learn more than you sought.
    Also, go to Claimsmentor.com that website is geared for your experience level and will be the best money you will spend for now.



    Danny and Mike,

    Ya’ll are to sweet. You think you are helping these wannabes when all you are doing is giving them a false sense of security. You could also be taking food off your table. This is no longer the day of the warm body adjuster and the only test is to blow fog on a window pane on a cold day. We probably won’t see that day unless we have two Katrina’s overlapping. We have had two years of warm bodied adjusters. Those adjusters now have experience. Also, those same adjusters can now do 200 claims for every 100 they did on their first storm. Then you look at how many did little or no work this year, the 200 may become 300. Hopefully the IA firms learned something from 04’&05’ and will be more efficient and prepared for future events. You can bet their rosters have increased significantly. Point is, if you have less than 3 years experience you better have the certs and training to go along with it or you may not get that phone call and if you do make it to the field you had better impress some one or you will not stay that long. These guys that have no experience aren’t gonna get that phone call. How many times were you put on stand by this year? If your answer is 0 you had best start worrying. If you are put on stand by you have to wonder how many the IA firm put there off of their roster. If they call their whole roster to the cat site and everyone shows up are they going to say “Sorry we did not get as many claims as expected wait around until next week we are suppose to get some more claims in.”

    Bud does not know O&P from O&E –give me a break. He probably does not know software and the only time he has looked at a policy is in the no-fail pre-licenseing class. If you wanna help a wannabe tell him it ain't gonna happen.

    I will gladly help anyone that has first made a diligent effort to help themselves first.
    leaanddan
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    12/06/2006 9:51 PM
    Larry,

    I wish I could say that I understamd your frustration, but I can't. I happen to be one of those "wannabes" who got his license a year ago and was fortunate enough to be deployed in April and stay on the same storm sight for 6 months this year. I had no experience, got the certs, training and ride-a-longs and - got the call. I guess I impressed someone because I was handling clean-up and contractor negotiations for the last 4 months for an entire county. Thing is, I had that exact same question the first few weeks I was trying to figure out how to make myself marketable in this business and wouldn't you know it; I found the info right here. Luckily for me, however, it was on a current thread, but the point of CADO to me is to help others like I've been helped over the last year (and it's been A LOT). I realize that not everyone is cut out for this business and a slew of people jumped in for the wrong reason, but years like this will weed those out and leave the ones who will be a positive reflection of our profession. What if Bud is one of the good ones? Seems like a shame to let him go without a little leg up.
    Work Hard - Play Hard
    HuskerCat
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    12/07/2006 4:04 AM

    I think we're all trying to be a litle bit more helpful now, but it's tough not to make a lil' biti of fun some time too, OK?

    O&P, E&O, ALLthoseO's....geez, it took me a while to get this right.  Anyway, there is a whole bunch on the archives about E&O.

     

    Tom Toll
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    12/07/2006 11:48 AM
    "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." In 1961 I was, what we call a newbee. Damn, that was a long time ago. Was I a good adjuster in 1961, I don't think so. But I had several gentlemen who had been adjusters for many years hold my hand. I was sent to one school behind the other and finally became an adjuster. I received no ridicule, nor did they hesitate answering what I thought was stupid questions. I was told when I first startd that it took 7 years to become a decent adjuster. They were correct. Of course that was an all lines adjuster, not just property. We all have to start somewhere, so we can end up somewhere. The 4 in 04 created a lot of warm bodies that really did not know what they were doing and for them, I felt sorry that someone led them down the primrose path to no where. Those bodies no longer exist, as 06 was not a good year for catastrophes.

    If we have a severe cat season in 07, that cycle will start over again, as warm bodies will not longer be there, they must be recruited. I blame the vendors as much as the participants. They need muscle to show the companies they have made promises to. That is one reason we stick with Cunningham Lindsey. They will not bite off more than they can chew. I have seen them turn down claims because they just did not have the knowledgeable staff required to maintain the claims count. Some vendors grab everything they can, hire warm bodies, and somehow muddle through the season. Companies remember that action.

    If anyone is a good dedicated adjuster, I don't think they should fear newbies, as their credentials, desire, attitude, and knowledge will keep them working when the newby has gone home. Some of the newbies have turned out to be good adjusters and with more training will become very good adjusters. There will always be a need for a good adjuster.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    Ray Hall
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    12/07/2006 7:21 PM

    The trend for inside adjusters will cut very deep into the warm body in the field needed to be the "adjuster". New people should market themselves as inspectors/photographers ,FICUS  to describe what they do in the settlement process; as the settlement is going back inside.

    Tom Toll
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    12/07/2006 8:25 PM
    Ray, I see that you think the FICUS concept is going to be the rule of thumb in the near future. I am one that disagrees with you on that. There have always been inside settlement adjusters, thats certainly nothing new and it may graduate into a little heavier operation, but I don't see the outside adjuster as being diminished in value or need. There will always be the need for a good, knowledgeable outside adjuster. We are the eyes and ears of the companies and I suggest it will stay that way for many years to come.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    Ray Hall
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    12/08/2006 11:21 AM

    Four reasons for me to think they way I think. Auto liability claims very seldom have an outside adjuster involved. Outside people but not outside adjusters.

    Non cat. property claims/losses . A small % have a staff adjuster inspect the loss.A complex or large loss will be assigned to an IA as it takes a lot of time away from the inside person. A very large % of the small to medium losses will have a select contractor do the only inspections. Many carriers now will require a 3rd party construction consultant on any loss of 75 to 100 K

    The third is the real kicker. Too much liability for the actions of stormers who are over their head. Do it just like the NFIP program does: do not give the inspectors (FICUS) any authority to make any scope or coverage decisions, just send in the forms as requested!

    We are in agreement on good outside adjusters Tom, just not as many as we have now.

    Ray Hall
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    12/11/2006 6:00 PM
    About 10 to 15 will furnish E & O and take a nominal amount out of your first pay check ($200.00) per year. You should seek out these vendors for other valid reasons as well.
    Jud G.
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    12/12/2006 11:16 AM

    If you work for a vendor that allows you to get paid on a 1099 basis, expect to not only carry your own E&O, but General Liability (GL) and your own Workers Compensation (WC) coverages as well.

    One vendor I worked for in the past allowed their adjusters to get paid on a 1099 basis as long as they had their own E&O coverage- GL and WC were not required.  I am surprised since they would suffer quite a penalty if (actually a matter of when) an adjuster fell of the ladder and filed a WC claim on the vendor's WC policy.  I realize that the 1099 agreement implies a Subcontractor agreement.  However, if the injury is severe enough, you will get into a legal battle over express vs. implied ("Oh...I thought I was covered under your WC insurance").  And in America, the one with the most money usually loses.  If a vendor allows you to get paid on 1099 basis, expect them to require all three of the coverages just mentioned.

    Ray, in reference to your comment above, I'm not sure how a vendor's pay structure (1099 or W4) reflects on their reputation.  Please elaborate.

    Tiger
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    12/12/2006 4:04 PM
    I have always been compensated as a 1099 and only once, and that was by a carrier, been required to carry GL and WC, but oddly enough, not E&O. Not one of the adjusting vendors, I've worked for ever required I carry any of those coverages. They "suggested" I carry it. The purpose of the 1099 is so that the vendor is not required to pay payroll tax on you. Any other arrangement and you are basically an employee and the onus would be on them to provide the coverages.
    Ray Hall
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    12/13/2006 6:56 PM
    I have been an independant for many years. Regular daily claims/losses as well as cat. I have never had E & O , GL, or WC most of the vendors provided this or I would not work on a 1099 for them.If they did not provide I worked "bare". in some slow times.
    TXAD
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    01/10/2007 10:56 PM

    Larry, you made the following statement...


    Bud,

    You might have just as well said “I just got my license what next”. One of my peeves is wannabes with no initiative. I’ll bet you heard that if you got your license, laptop and ladder you can get rich. Whenever I embark on a new endeavor I try to learn as much about the subject as I can in order to at least be able to “talk the talk”.



    And, although you were correct in (only) one assesment, that I was new (duh, look at the post number...1), that's where your wisdom fails you.

    Let's look at your mistakes
    1)No Innitiative.....Well, since that 1st post, I've taken my Basic Estimating class, Xactimate24 training, Xactimate Certification, Advanced Property Adjusting Class and Ethics Class (makes me wonder if you've taken that one) and completed all of my CE hrs. for the next 2 yrs.
    2)Ladder and a Laptop... FYI, I've been in the construction business for 27 yrs, most specifically flooring. At the age of 49 I don't anticipate that my body can take the abuse of working on the floor until the age of retirement, and since my uncle has been an adjuster for over 30 yrs and having several friends that are either IAs or associated with insurance/catastrophes that have talked with me over the YEARS about adjusting, I felt that my first career move in almost 30 yrs should be adjusting. This was not a whim that occured after Katrina, but after Rita plowed through my neighborhood and dealing with 1st class adjusters, I got even more inspired to help others.

    One day, I WILL know enough to carry on a conversation and contribute on this board, but until then, I'm content with reading and learning...There goes #3) try to learn as much about the subject as I can in order to at least be able to “talk the talk”.

    That's why I'm on this site in the 1st place, to learn from proffesionals (excluding you of course). In fact, I've learned more on this forum about adjusting than ALL of my classes combined. I have become a true student of this business and will some day earn my family's income from it. Until then, I'm certainly willing to pay my dues, make mistakes and of course, ask stupid questions.

    But don't worry, I'll make CERTAIN that I don't dip into any of your money.

    BTW, thanks to those that took the time to answer my dumb question (since I was unable to find the answer in any of my information).
    HuskerCat
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    01/11/2007 4:26 AM

    Bud,

    It looks like you've taken all the right steps and also have a pretty good support group to help you out.  We (well, maybe me & one other guy) may have been a little rough on you for what was probably just a mistake on your part when you brought up the subect of ins for E&O, when you said O&P.

    Obviously, you knew the difference...but just had a little brain fart like most of us do from time to time.  Good luck in your ventures!!! 

     

    Ray Hall
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    01/11/2007 9:54 PM

    Bud: You  will do just fine with your support group and carpenter background.

    A catastrophe claim is not complicated from a coverage standpoint. If you have a Homeowners  3 claim all direct damage from wind is covered. No surface water (fallout from rain) and no flood (by definition) is covered. Under the broad coverage of the 3 wind driven rain to the building is covered; BUT not to the contents, UNLESS the rain comes through an opening in the roof or wall.

    Trees and plants are not covered property for windstorm.  Several more land mines, but these are the real biggies.

    You are now on WOW.

    You can tell from all my post that the expense of insurance coverage should be on the master who gets 40%

    cantonking
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    01/11/2007 10:37 PM

    Bud,

    I don't know why you feel the need to attack me? I gave you some very good advice.

    Everything in my post was truthful. I stand by by my original assessment.

    Anyone in construction for 27 years should know what O&P is-not to be confused with O&E (E&O).

    As far as questioning me having taken an Ethics Class. I assume you are stating that I am unethical. Everything I have said is legal and truthful. I don't think you know the definition of ethics.

    my uncle has been an adjuster for over 30 yrs and having several friends that are either IAs or associated with insurance/catastrophes that have talked with me over the YEARS about adjusting

    With a support staff like this you should be well connected and be able to catch a storm without any problem. I don't understand why you are not asking your staff these dumb questions.

    to learn from proffesionals (excluding you of course).

    Are you saying I am not a proffesional (professional)  or that you can't learn from me?

    I gave you some good advice and told you what you are up against out here in the real world. That was before I knew what a strong support staff you had. It may be different for you because you are so connected.

    One thing you do need to do before becoming a proffesional adjuster is learn how to spell it.

    Get a dictionary.

     

    nccatadjuster
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    01/14/2007 10:26 PM

    This will be my first post and it is just because I come here to read and learn, instead of spouting off and showing my ignorance.    Larry, what you did was not give advise it was insulting just by your opening statement.  If someone ask a question you do not like just hit the back button and go to the next post.  Bud, good luck and all the best to you.

    Alright those of you with nothing better to do spell check me and check for fragmented sentences.

    Robert  Hill

    Tom Toll
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    01/15/2007 12:57 AM
    Rob, I hope this is not your first and last post. You must realize that there are those whose arrogance only displays their ignorance. Spelling is important, but to misspell a word, is not the end of the world. One can always use MS Word and check spelling if they are unsure. I personally don't think there is such a thing as a dumb question. I would rather have someone ask a question, which is smart, than those who do not ask, which displays a lower intelligence level.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    JimGary
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    01/15/2007 9:42 PM
    Since this started as a quest for E&O, I have posted a short list of the source I recently found at http://www.catadjuster.org/Forums/C...fault.aspx

    It is by no means a complete list, but probably get you what you need.
    I know the voices aren't real, but sometimes they're right!
    cantonking
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    01/16/2007 12:39 AM

    Rob,

    I think you meant advice instead of advise.

    I am glad to see you were stimulated enough to get off the fence and make your first post. I do regret that you chose to make it a personal attack on me instead of something positive. In your post you seem to be "spouting off and showing my ignorance" to quote you. It is easy to do when you read something that you really deem to be asinine.Cudos on circumventing censorship by not directing "spouting off and showing my ignorance" directly at me, but by inference. This is the method preferred by one of the moderators.

    What I post tends to be truthful and not misleading. I do not give anyone a false sense of security. Instead of getting offended one should ask if there is any truth to what I post.

    If someone ask a question you do not like just hit the back button and go to the next post.

    HuskerCat
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    01/16/2007 3:41 AM
    And clicking on the "submit" button one time is enough.
    Tom Toll
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    01/16/2007 9:49 AM
    That submit mistake was taken care of Mike, by Larry's favorite moderator.
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
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