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Last Post 06/17/2010 8:32 AM by  Buford Gonzales
Sumps
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jlouden
Member
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Posts:31


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06/14/2010 9:40 AM
    Hey everyone, curious about your take(s) on a sump and related equipment...
     
    One of the most common events for water related losses is when a sump pump fails.  Water overflows and inundates a basement with water.  Well, what if there is no pump?  That leaves us with only "a sump".  I did some dictionary pulling and found that the raw definition for a sump (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sump) is 1. a hollow or pit into which liquid drains, such as a cesspool, cesspit or sink and 6. (construction) an intentional depression around a drain or scupper that promotes drainage.
     
    Now, with that being said, would a stand up shower basin be a sump?  Would graded concrete in the form of a patio or driveway be a sump?  Are there scenarios where ensuing damage from either of those be covered?
     
    Food for thought, philisophical.
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    Ray Hall
    Posts:2443


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    06/14/2010 10:01 AM
    If the language is plain use that language, don,t try to change  definitions. I think sump pump failure means the pump failed.
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    Leland
    Senior Member
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    Posts:741


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    06/14/2010 12:40 PM
    An intentional depression means that it was made on purpose, not just a natural dip in some dirt. When I read the second definition I can visualize a spot in the center of a basement about 1' x 1' and 8" deep. The sump pump can sit in there so that it can sit in water and do its job. If you didn't have that little depression and you had 1/4" of water on the floor the pump would be sucking air and water both.

    Now if the entire basement (or driveway or patio) was designed to drain water to the center it would not be a sump in my opinion. The basement/patio/driveway can have a sump, but it can't be a sump unless it is part of an even larger system- like say if there were 20 connected basements, the lowest one could be a sump for the others.

    To me, a sump is part of a larger whole. You can't have a sump unless you have a larger area that drains into the sump.

    The point of a sump is that instead of just simply having a surface that drains water, you have a surface that drains into a special depression, and that special depression is called a sump.

    It's a good idea to look up the dictionary definition of a word, especially if the policy doesn't define the word. "Fences" in most policies include concrete block walls. This is consistent with the dictionary definition of "fence" but the average person doesn't consider a cinder block wall to be a fence. In this case the carrier is using a definition from the dictionary rather than the "person on the street" definition.

    A for a sump, I don't think the dictionary definition OR the "person on the street" would consider a shower pan to be a "sump".

    One thing to realize with the dictionary- it is describing the items that fit that word. But not all items that fit the definition are properly named with that word.

    For example if the definition of car was "internal combustion self-propelled wheeled vehicle used on public streets" then you could get all crazy and say that a motorcycle was a car, or when grandpa drives his tractor to the farm supply store his tractor becomes a car etc etc. Obviously you have to use some common sense.
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    Leland
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:741


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    06/14/2010 12:44 PM
    And by the way, these are the kind of arguments public adjusters make. Request them to put their arguments in writing, so it can be carefully considered by the carrier. The PA could be right, but you can waste a lot of time arguing about these things. Why waste time.
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    Buford Gonzales
    Member
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    Posts:57


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    06/15/2010 8:35 AM
    My own experience with Sump Pump failure says recheck your spelling when submitting a claim. Pump and Pimp are correct as far as spelling goes, but a tired adjuster may not see the difference at two in the morning.
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    Leland
    Senior Member
    Senior Member
    Posts:741


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    06/15/2010 8:55 AM
    You did that? Hilarious. Now I don't feel so bad about mistakes that I have made.
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    Buford Gonzales
    Member
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    Posts:57


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    06/17/2010 8:32 AM
    It gets worse when you copy and paste it all over your file.
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