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Last Post 01/10/2013 11:50 PM by Torrential

Sandy Discussion

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Alex_Chernov
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Posts:67

10/29/2012 9:52 PM
So, here we are Sandy is here. It is really funny how changing jobs from commission to salary changes the perception. When I was a salaried road warrior, I used to beam with joy while seeing those clowns on Weather Channel acting like it's the end of the world. Now, I am a salaried guy working for a large IA firm and I am frowning at the same TV clowns. And out of all possible places, I am a staff guy in New York. So, what is the real damages are going to be it is hard to say. I just thought I will start some discussion here while we all are sitting waiting for claims :) - was was my personal observations in Brooklyn? That's where I live, and I have to say, I did not see a lot. Yes, there are some shingles off the barn, loose stuff flying around, some gusts are really serious, my house is shaking and bit and my wife looks a bit scared. Streets are empty and sirens are heard oftentimes. But we still have power, I do not see any serious wind related damages, flooding is shown on TV only. - Will the hurricane deductible apply? This will be a big question for everybody. Anybody knows what was the status of the storm, when it landed? And maybe somebody experienced may weigh in on what is usually the case with those deductibles? -Weather channel and local authorities are bending the truth? All day long I watched the show where mayor Bloomberg was saying that "this is very serious" and every governor of the state nearby were singing in unison, that this is it, armageddon for the ages, and if you do not evacuate then, you are dead. I understand motivation of these guys, they are thinking, shoot, we better scare living soul out of these folks, and we will have less work if thing do turn bad. And I understand the TV clowns from weather channel perfectly. This is their livelihood, their rating, their salary, so let's make it look as bad as we can without looking ridiculous. So, this way we have all these guys with a microphone on a Jersey shore somewhere, fighting crazy wind like a true hero. I mean, they are putting on a show, that's all. So how the heck are we supposed to find reliable information in this mess? I mean for me it's cut out. Staten Island and Brooklyn, some Manhattan, couple of dozens of carriers that's what I am going to handle regardless. But what about a guy somewhere in Ohio, deciding whether to put his ladder on the truck and come here or not? How much work will come out of it? I am not sure, really. There is probably going to be a lot of flood work in New Jersey and Connecticut, and, possibly, Manhattan. Wind damages are still unclear, but my guess would be that there will be some minor claims, and if hurricane deductible applies, that will eliminate most of them. There will be some trees down, yes, especially on Staten Island. :)

Tags: On The Job

ScopeDog

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Posts:8

10/30/2012 12:26 PM
Hey Alex, I appreciate your post. I'm one of those guys trying to decide to put a ladder on my truck and come on out there. Not only, that I'm a newbie. Just saw a reporter in New Jersey standing in the street stomping through the mud from the sand that was blown from the beach. He made it sound so terrible! But you could see all the houses behind him were all intact. No comparison to a Galveston type Hurricane. It was so bad in the 1900's they had to raise the island 3 feet. That was a tragedy. With that said, I'm glad the storm wasn't any worse and that the officials did a great job of preparing for the worst. Katrina taught everyone a lesson, except for maybe the mayor of Atlantic City, (it's always a mayor) nobody wants to see that again. I thought at the time that Irene wasn't too bad but later found out some new guys did alright with it. Spent about 45 days and made out OK for a new guy. At any rate, thanks again for your post and keeping your boots on the ground.

Alex_Chernov
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Posts:67

10/30/2012 8:34 PM
Hey, Scopedog. Most cat adjusters do not think too much before going, they get a call and off they go. It's more of a problem for a guy that used to be an adjuster and now has a regular job or a guy like me who is on salary now, but would consider switching back to cat. I drove around today. a few trees down, couple of missing shingles. I say, this is not going to be a huge event. Unless manhattan flooding kicks in and bunch of BI claims pop up due to power interruption. Unfortunately, this forum, being, probably, closest to real adjuster's forum is a quite peculiar one. Real, smart, working guys who you can learn something from, are too busy to post or do not care, hence pages of arrogance, bickering and general bull.

ScopeDog

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Posts:8

10/30/2012 9:26 PM
Alex, Thanks for the heads up, I'm sure you'll stay busy. Next time in Manhattan, have a corned beef at Katz's, Houston Street. I miss that place! From a native N.Y.er

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

10/31/2012 12:31 AM
Posted By Alex_Chernov on 30 Oct 2012 08:34 PM Hey, Scopedog. Most cat adjusters do not think too much before going, they get a call and off they go. It's more of a problem for a guy that used to be an adjuster and now has a regular job or a guy like me who is on salary now, but would consider switching back to cat. I drove around today. a few trees down, couple of missing shingles. I say, this is not going to be a huge event. Unless manhattan flooding kicks in and bunch of BI claims pop up due to power interruption. Unfortunately, this forum, being, probably, closest to real adjuster's forum is a quite peculiar one. Real, smart, working guys who you can learn something from, are too busy to post or do not care, hence pages of arrogance, bickering and general bull. ........................................... Well hello Mr. Chernov, long time it has indeed been! Yes we of course bicker, but sometimes some of the things I say are actually true!!! Haha! In any case, I am happy to see you are working a staff gig. Whilst not as much money as an independent, you will make a livable wage and a bit to sock away. The best part is no more roller coaster, no feast or famine and that is worth its weight in gold. Some areas sustained some significant wind damage and many places suffered severe flood damage. Nevertheless Alex, I must say me and my bride sat in front of the tv riveted as breaking news on CNN carried the headline thousands trapped in their homes and hear the reporter point to two people casually sitting on their porch, "OMG, there's more of them. We are watching a dramatic rescue, she cries!!! I then watched these people carried on some cop's shoulders as he deposits them in an inflatable boat. Alas the boat itself is.....STUCK!!!!!!!!!!Oh the humanity!! Why is this rescue craft disabled??????? Uhm could it be that everyone was standing in "ANKLE DEEP WATER?????" and as such when the folks were put in the boat, being that it was in oh so trecherous 6 inches,"although those 6 inches are very angry!!" deep????? the rubber dingy (IE rescue vessel)boat was sitting on the ...ground?? "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

bcgolf

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Posts:19

10/31/2012 8:27 AM
Locality is a two way street … Firms and carriers that are losing IA’s on the daily claims side to Sandy’s call in the North East.. Perhaps a revision of your paying IA’s only 60% of the fee schedule might be in order… call it an early Christmas bonus.

K ung Fu tzu
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Member
Posts:76

11/01/2012 6:43 AM
I had a conversation with a claim manager just yesterday and he asked me what my assessment of the situation was here in NJ. I think there are quite a few people trying to get a grasp on potential claim volume. I honestly don't know because I haven't been out on the roads much, but I can tell you this; while the wind had some strong gusts and most likely caused damage, it wasn't catastrophic. And the houses in NJ are old, weather resistent and quite use to nor'easter type wind. And the rain expectation for most of the state wasn't even close to the predictions. I heard predictions in the range of 10 inches and some areas never got to 1 or 2. The Jersey shore was most definitely hit hard with the storm surge and there will be many flood claims. For the adjusters willing to tackle the logistics of traffic, bridges, tunnels, islands, etc., there will be work. Areas that I'm not hearing much about on the news include Delaware and Maryland and there could be a lot of work there, Baltimore received about 6 inches of rain. That's a lot of basement flooding. Should be interesting, I think today and tomorrow will give firms a better handling of the claim volume. I would expect many claims to be fast-tracked internally due to their size. For guys like me that like to work clean-up, there will be a ton of work for sure, as many (not all)of you southern folk (all due respect ) will be high-tailing it out of here come the colder weather. It's about 40-45 now, they type of weather that will chill you to your core along the beach and it only drops from here. I have a couple of conference calls today and will report what I hear.

K ung Fu tzu
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Member
Posts:76

11/01/2012 6:47 AM
Rainfall amounts, post storm: I think the lack of significant rain with this storm will limit the claims for interior wind-driven rain. -3.85” in Washington D.C., at Reagan National Airport (2.69” in 1885) -2.68” in Philadelphia (1.72” in 1953) -4.79” in Atlantic City, N.J. (2.33” in 1908) -3.79” in Wilmington, Del. (2.56” in 1953)

Alex_Chernov
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Posts:67

11/01/2012 7:41 PM
K ung Fu tzu, thanks for joining. I have received about 15 claims today. All of them commercial. Several were power interruption, BI claims, some were wind claims and some were flood. Some of my insured report water as high as 5 feet inside their home Sea Gate. Large part of Manhattan is still without power. Governor of New York, declared that homeowners will not have to pay hurricane deductible. Which, or course, if stands would most probably mean that insurance companies will have to forgo percentage deductible on commercial policies. One of our large clients have given us the instruction to write for observable damage and do not take into consideration any of the coverage issues. Another carrier explicitly asked to apply 5% (ouch) deductible, PER LOCATION, PER OCCURENCE (that is for blanket commercial stuff). I had hard time today on the phone, as everybody wanted me to be there IMMEDIATELY (why not require me to scope and turn in the claim as well, may be?). One of the carrier representative, apparently nice lady somewhere in Ohio, insisted that I meet insured TODAY (it was 3 pm btw). I made an effort to free up time for this "urgent" claim and, oh, irony, queen of the world, insured could not get there because he DID NOT HAVE GAS IN HIS CAR. Another adjuster stated that they wanted me out there immediately, because storm damaged some boats on marina, and one boat was in, I quote, "PRECARIOUS SITUATION". I wonder if they though that search and rescue was my second specialty. More news tomorrow. But, my prediction is this is going to be interesting storm, but probably not for people with a ladder, hoping to burn 5 claims a day.

ScopeDog

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Posts:8

11/01/2012 8:53 PM
Hey Alex, I spoke with my brother in Ohio, his TV news today was showing a roofer with 40 guys in the field tarping roofs. There seems to be more wind damage in that area. Interesting to say the least. I remember Hurricane Rita created many a blue roof in Louisiana, many were blue for over a year and there was no snow to contend with. Right now I'm waiting for deployment orders to either Ohio or PA. Hopefully my ladder will be needed. But I'm alright with not thinking about it too much, currently in wait and see mode. First green light and I'm gone.

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

11/02/2012 4:38 AM
Posted By ScopeDog on 01 Nov 2012 08:53 PM Hey Alex, I spoke with my brother in Ohio, his TV news today was showing a roofer with 40 guys in the field tarping roofs. There seems to be more wind damage in that area. Interesting to say the least. I remember Hurricane Rita created many a blue roof in Louisiana, many were blue for over a year and there was no snow to contend with. Right now I'm waiting for deployment orders to either Ohio or PA. Hopefully my ladder will be needed. But I'm alright with not thinking about it too much, currently in wait and see mode. First green light and I'm gone. ................................................................ ScopeDog, thank goodness you haven't left yet. I am going to deploy over the weekend to Jersey. They initially were real hell bent on me and of course thousands of other flood adjusters being on scene yesterday. I assumed when I told them no way, what do you possibly think that would have ANY logical reason to have me be there staged when most insureds haven't even been let back in the area, that they would say OK then see ya!! Fortunately they didn't and I anticipate a Monday arrival, possibly Tuesday. That being said, I have a large contingent of my rookie members already in Pittsburgh and have been there since Tuesday the day after Sandy . WHY?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Other idiotic IA firms have tons of adjusters sitting in hotels doing NOTHING!!! I am already getting these angry emails about carriers not telling IA firms anything yet, A wait and see! All I can say to those rookie adjusters is live and learn. Sad thing is half these guys also got burned from Isaac. In all reality to those folks, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... shame on me!! Why this is happening again is amazing to me. All I can think of is that possibly many IA firms on preferred vendors lists with carriers are claiming thousands of available adjusters when they are soliciting for the carriers business. Claiming to have thousands and in reality only have 25% of promised numbers seems to me the IA firm would much rather screw the adjusters than to not be able to deliver the promised numbers and lose the carrier's business "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

11/02/2012 4:42 AM
i should probably qualify that statement. It is apparent that Sandy is NO Isaac, I believe everyone deployed is going to work. Nevertheless I think the lion's share of claims will go to us NFIP certified adjusters. Only time will tell, but I honestly think the carriers and some IA firms are exploiting the availability and eagerness of rookie adjusters willing to do anything if only for a handful of claims. IMHO "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

K ung Fu tzu
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Posts:76

11/02/2012 6:46 AM
Update; Actually I have no update other than the holding pattern continues. Flood claims are coming in, but gas lines are enormous and residents haven't been let onto the barrier islands yet, hopefully by tomorrow but it will only be residents. Monday will be critical mass day for sure.

thebreeze

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11/02/2012 2:03 PM
@ CatAdjusterX = You nailed it

southwestready
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11/02/2012 6:12 PM
Robbie, your ETA is better than most, too many arrived early and are sitting in gas lines for 2+ hrs. I arrived yesterday and set myself in those lines. I was one of the ones on ISSAC burned by Allcat Claims. Many of us went elsewhere this round, the burn we got last time from Allcat taught us. The other thing is there ridiculous 60% split, that is later lowered to 55% once claims start to slow down. cant make money on those percentages especially on denials. I feel for the newbies and more so for the insureds that get an inexperienced adjuster, its a disservice all around. Allcat has sent emails advising they need anyone thats avail for Hartford Ins as they dont require certification, so no experience is required!! I have a sister in law that went, she has no experience, has never used xactimate or even been on a roof. Allcat told her buy a laptop and they will add xactimate on site for her. The orientation Allcat put on in VA she said they were showing the whole room what a shingle gauge was, what 3 tab versus laminated was, its scary as hell. This boils down to firms simply wanting more and more regardless of the cost to the insureds, carriers and adjusters. FYI start booking room now as many hotels booked.

Alana

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Posts:1

11/02/2012 7:52 PM
I'm in commercial roofing (sales). The owner wants me to go up there, but I'm needing to know where to go exactly. I don't want to throw a dart at the storm area and hope I hit an area that has a lot of damaged commerical roofs. It's going to be like a roofer's convention so I'm really needing to work smart here. Any information, advice, &/or connections would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Medulus
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Posts:786

11/03/2012 9:23 AM
I am driving out and taking several days to do it. Like Robbie, I will not be arriving until Monday or Tuesday. And I am not going at the request of one of those companies that brings in hundreds of adjusters for two weeks work. I seem to have learned a thing or three since my early days. In 1998 a company deployed me before the Hurricane hit and told me to head down to North Carolina. Half way there it dawned on me that I was driving into the path of a hurricane on purpose. I stopped and stayed with friends on the way to slow down my arrival. I was still too early to start work right away, and the total workload consited of 21 claims apiece when we all arrived on scene. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

The Breeze
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11/03/2012 9:57 AM
I haven't made the trip out yet... I was offered the first wave, but still just a little hesitant. First off, I'm not sure that there are enough wind claims to keep me busy long enough to justify the trip from Oklahoma. Secondly, I was on our conference call yesterday... one of the adjusters already on scene says he had to have a police escort to get back to his vehicle after an inspection (Atlantic City). He said it was a close call, and fortunate that there was a police officer on patrol. If you're not a cop or a delivery driver, you don't fit in. I guess it's illegal to carry a concealed weapon, and you can do jail time if caught - with or without a permit from what I've heard. I would't want to be on the front lines with a can of hornet spray as my only defense. Maybe the area is just a little to shaky for me, but I would like to get a piece of the work somewhere in the region. From what I'm hearing, most of the damage is for the NFIP assessment. I had an offer to work FEMA inspections ($57.50 per inspection) and turned them down - I've done that before and found it to be a cluster. Anyway, most of the guys out there working are not going to take the time to read this forum. Just wondering if there are more like Medulus that are on their way out there. I'd like to get some input before agreeing to accept my invitation to head out there. I always like to give it a few days for the dust to settle after a storm, and in this case for the gas station lines to shorten. Just would like to know more about the volume of work that might be available and any other safety on the streets issues.

stormcrow

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Posts:437

11/03/2012 2:00 PM
Although I will miss this event a note to all adjusters. Be safe, do not take chances and the best of luck. This will be a challanging assignment. I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

11/03/2012 3:37 PM
Come on guys, especially you Steve, realism will ruin the experience for the newbies. Out of work for years, 6 figure income, whats a little snow, cold and the power out. Drag a 5th wheel into New York and go to work. Pilot has had claims reps on scene for a week. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

11/04/2012 1:12 AM
Posted By stormcrow on 03 Nov 2012 02:00 PM Although I will miss this event a note to all adjusters. Be safe, do not take chances and the best of luck. This will be a challanging assignment. ......................................................... StormCrow, unfortunately I do NOT think many of the newer adjusters have any idea what they will be facing. The organized chaos is obvious, yet I am talking about the safety issues these folks will most certainly face. Chuck's words ring true about the mindset of bit of snow a bit cold, big deal I am working and that is all that matters. Of course Chuck meant this to be taken in jest, but so many do think that way!! Those states and affected areas along the Atlantic seaboard is some of the most valuable real estate in the nation. As such, you will have to search high and low to locate any single story "ranch" style homes prevalent in Texas Arizona California Oregon. So they will be working with risks that have a very small footprint and that will be on average 2 stories and above coupled with extremely steep pitches of 8/12 and above. I fully envision scenarios where rookie adjusters may be nervous about a roof yet will climb it anyway for fear of making a bad impression to the IA firm about a rookie adjuster acting like a sissy!! They are NOT sissies and whilst you cannot let the fear of falling consume you, you must take it seriously because that is our survival instinct telling you "SLOW DOWN HOMBRE". Whilst I have never run claims in those areas New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, those areas were my territory when I was managing daily and CAT claims for PSIC (Pacific Specialty) and Narragansett Bay (NBIC) . Almost all claims either had a roofer submit an estimate or utilize EagleView or GeoEstimator because these roofs were inherently dangerously high and steep. Before using these satellite or roofing contractor services there were instances where the adjusters I assigned to the claims DID climb the roof utilizing a rope and harness system and billed accordingly. Nevertheless, I had to chastise these guys and 1 gal because included in our daily fee schedule as well as our CAT schedule CLEARLY calls for management approval prior to incurring or billing additional services to respective carriers. I also had a running battle with certain carrier examiners who would balk at the additional fees for the steep roof access, yet demanded x amount of photos to show adjuster was on the roof. This became such an issue that I had to seek guidance from my firm's senior partners with these examiners because the tension was becoming a distraction. After that, we found a happy medium with x amount of dollars authorized without carrier pre-approval for a satellite roof report or roofing contractor estimate. The simple fact is all this was an issue because all these roofs in those areas were sketchy (steep/high) "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

Alex_Chernov
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Member
Posts:67

11/04/2012 5:38 PM
I went out to Far Rockaway and Coney Island. 5 feet of water inside the buildings along the waterline. Total flood devastation. I am not sure if this is going to be big on wind claims, but it will be big on flood. I am flood certified by the way, but never handled too many flood claims. I guess this is my lucky day. Fema is setting up camps on parking lots, lot's of people are living in shelters, gas is nowhere to be found in the city. My company received about 3,000 claims in a 48 hours period, our management is going through the queue and selects big ones, and gives it to us . I received a few multipmillion dollar losses. Looks like there will be some work for me out there.

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/04/2012 6:31 PM
I'm in the same area Alex. I went down to Long Beach and Rockaway this morning; similar observations. People in NY appear to be experienced. The standard reply for many here is, "it was sewer back-up!" Which effectively means, "I don't have flood insurance!" The vendor I'm with has large carriers polling the firm. They are trying to find out what large losses the firm has from its clients without disclosing confidence. All they have received are extensive numbers of minor wind claims. They have not heard from their customer base who live/operate on the outer reaches and have significant flood damage. Keep in mind the following facts: This storm was 1,500 miles in diameter with TS strength winds over several large metro areas (Richmond (medium), Wash. DC, Baltimore, Philly, Newark, & NYC). Katrina's TS force winds were just a little over 200 miles in diameter that covered only one (1) medium sized metro area. Also, the value of the properties impacted by Katrina was much cheaper compared to the property values in the areas listed. My point is that the overwhelming clamor coming from the millions of minor claims is dwarfing the very few (purely comparative) losses annihilated by the storm surge. In comparison to the many, many minor wind claims, the flood exposures are 'few' and had a major impact along all of Jersey Shore, up the Hudson river, and all of Long Island. It's not just the NFIP, but the excess and DIC carriers that will be impacted severely. Many people inland (even the Mayor and news crews) on Long Island are still completely oblivious to the devastation that is present just a few miles away from them on the south Long Island shore. The headlines paint an incomplete picture as they describe fuel shortages and power outages. Perhaps the election has something to do with this. Nonetheless, the good people of NY have been remarkably resilient, patient, and considerate despite less than favorable conditions. [Just a side note; does anyone know about a Public Adjuster law in NY where it is perfectly legal to for PA's to pay referral fees to Brokers? No other state has this. Interestingly, I had a PA complaining to me about this law because creates an unfair advantage for his firm.]

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/04/2012 7:24 PM
and now, that they are finally fixing power in Manhattan, we are bracing for onslaught of business interruption claims. As for the flooding, unfortunately not too many people have flood insurance, even in the areas where common sense tells you that you should have it. So, flood claim volume might not be too big, although claim that do come in tend to be catastrophic. I think, next week will be crucial for us in terms of claim volume and claim nature. Best case scenario for me is that huge flood losses are going to be rare, and minor wind will be picked up by CAT cavalry. Large wind losses are sure to come in but, I don't expect too many of those. Jud G, about this referral thing, is it real? PA can pay referral fees to brokers LEGALLY?

Torrential
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Posts:9

11/05/2012 1:47 AM
Posted By ChuckDeaton on 03 Nov 2012 03:37 PM Come on guys, especially you Steve, realism will ruin the experience for the newbies. Out of work for years, 6 figure income, whats a little snow, cold and the power out. Drag a 5th wheel into New York and go to work. Pilot has had claims reps on scene for a week. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Big Reality Check: This isn’t hurricane Bob, which hit in Mid-August of '91,and was followed by The Perfect Storm on Halloween that year. We had lots of easy wind with the flood damage, and everyone who worked made money. The problem came in Mid-December, when the snow stayed on the ground for two weeks, which meant it was on the rooftops too. You couldn't see the damage, much less photograph it. So I left with my money like a snow bird, and was very glad to get home in the south. I can take the cold, but I can't take the snow on those roofs, and it will be there soon; and you'll be wondering why you came to work wind claims in the wintertime in New England. Once you get above the Mason-Dixon Line, the snow doesn't melt as fast, which means there are fewer safe inspection days. The flood folks will do fine. They'll make the big money on this. It's hard to predict the long term temp. and precip. forecast, but here it is. http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/multi_season/13_seasonal_outlooks/color/page2.gif What is average up there? I have no idea, but it will snow, and it will stay.

Emfont

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Posts:4

11/05/2012 10:19 AM
The Office of General Counsel issued the following opinion on July 18, 2007, representing the position of the New York State Insurance Department. Re: Disclosure of fee sharing between a public adjuster and an insurance broker Question Presented: Does the New York Insurance Law require a public adjuster to disclose the sharing of compensation with an insurance broker, based on a referral, to the insured? Conclusion: No. There is nothing set forth in the Insurance Law or the regulations promulgated thereunder that requires a public adjuster who shares compensation with an insurance broker on a referral to disclose to the insured the sharing of such compensation. However, the insurance broker is required under law to disclose such an arrangement, and in the interest of full disclosure, it would be prudent for an adjuster to do so as well. Facts: The question is of a general nature, without reference to particular facts. Analysis: An insurance broker assists in procuring an adjustment of a loss when the broker makes a referral to a public adjuster. Section 25.3 of New York Code, Rules & Regulations (“N.Y.C.R.R.”) tit. 11, Part 25 (Regulation 10) applies to public adjusters. That provision states in relevant part as follows: (b) No such licensee or sublicensee shall divide any fee or give any fee, commission or other compensation to any person, firm or corporation for procuring, or assisting in procuring, the adjustment of any such loss for any such licensee or sublicensee, unless the person, firm or corporation to whom such fee, commission or other compensation is given or paid had at the time when the loss occurred: (1) a public adjuster’s license issued and in force pursuant to section 123 of the Insurance Law;1 or (2) an insurance broker’s license issued and in force and such licensee either was the broker of record in placing the insurance which was involved in the adjustment of the loss, whether or not designated in writing to act for the insured, or was designated to act for the insured in writing before a loss occurred. Thus, by the plain terms of § 25.3(b), a public adjuster may compensate an insurance broker for a referral as an exception to the general rule against such fee splitting, provided the conditions in paragraphs (1) or (2) are satisfied.2 The Insurance Law and regulations promulgated thereunder require compensation agreements to be in writing between a broker and an insured. New York Insurance Law § 2119(c)(1) (McKinney 2006) provides: (c)(1) No insurance broker may receive any compensation, other than commissions deductible from premiums on insurance policies or contracts, from any insured or prospective insured for or on account of the sale, solicitation or negotiation of, or other services in connection with, any contract of insurance made or negotiated in this state or for any other services on account of such insurance policies or contracts, including adjustment of claims arising therefrom, unless such compensation is based upon a written memorandum, signed by the party to be charged, and specifying or clearly defining the amount or extent or such compensation. Similarly, Insurance Law § 2108 requires compensation agreements to be in writing between a public adjuster and an insured. The statute states: (p) No adjuster shall have any right to compensation from any insured for or on account of services rendered to such insured as public adjuster unless such right to compensation is based upon a written memorandum, signed by the party to be charged, and specifying or completely defining the amount or extent of such compensation… 11 N.Y.C.R.R. § 25.6 likewise states that: (a) a public adjuster may be compensated by an insured for or on account of services rendered to such insured by the public adjuster solely as provided for by a written compensation agreement obtained by the public adjuster which shall consist of substantively the same information and statement contained in Form 1 of section 25.13(a) of this Part. Thus, compensation agreements between either a broker or adjuster and an insured must be in writing. Nothing in the Insurance Law or regulations promulgated thereunder require a written agreement between a public adjuster and broker in order for them to share compensation. Nonetheless, it is the Insurance Department’s view that because the insured pays the public adjuster’s fee, the insurance broker receives compensation indirectly from the insured with respect to the adjustment of a claim. Therefore, the insurance broker must disclose the receipt of the compensation to the insured pursuant to a written memorandum executed in accordance with the provisions of Insurance Law § 2119(c)(1). See Office of General Counsel (“O.G.C.”) Opinion 07-02-06 (February 5, 2007); O.G.C. Opinion 99-18 (February 8, 1999). In addition, the undisclosed receipt of compensation by the broker could create the perception of divided or conflicted loyalties, which itself may be regarded as “untrustworthy conduct” within the meaning of Insurance Law § 2110 that could result in disciplinary action. There is, however, no requirement in the Insurance Law or regulations that the sharing of compensation between a public adjuster and a broker be disclosed by the adjuster. Nevertheless, in the interest of full disclosure, the Department believes that it would be prudent for the adjuster to inform the insured of the agreement. For further information you may contact Associate Counsel Alexander Tisch at the New York City Office.

okclarryd

Veteran Member
Posts:954

11/05/2012 1:09 PM
Robbie, I've been sending you some emails and they all come back as undeliverable. ??? Larry D Hardin

brarew

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Posts:3

11/05/2012 9:16 PM
I am on standby, unfortunately I am a newbie. I have 12 years in insurance defense so I know my way around a policy, but I have only had a few weeks of training with AmCat and a week of Xactimate. I am nervous, but hard working, self motivated and organized. Any tidbits of wisdom you seasoned vets would like to throw me I will gobble up. I am told I will be in New Jersey, New York and Connecticut. I am a southern girl so I packed all Northface gear in the hopes I can fight off the cold that is sure to come in the course of claims. The company deploying me says I will be working flood claims....not certified yet, but I hear they will be doing emergency certification soon. Chime in if you'd like to discourage, encourage or generally work me over for being new. Everyone had to start somewhere, and my guess is no one on this site was born a Cat adjuster (although in some cases I may be wrong) so you were all in my position at some point. I am aware there is a "right" way to do it and get the experience, but I my adjusting firm is assigning me to a mentor, so the insured will not suffer at the expense of my inexperience.

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

11/06/2012 1:54 AM
Posted By OkcLarryD on 05 Nov 2012 01:09 PM Robbie, I've been sending you some emails and they all come back as undeliverable. ??? ................................... Larry, yes, I had a legal issue and as such part of the compromise was to shut down my American Veteran Catastrophe Services website and change the company moniker to American Veteran ******** Services. New site with a new web-host is being designed right now. As such Robby@avcatservices.com is NO longer. You can find me at catadjusterx@gmail.com or on the FOATA site "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/06/2012 3:35 PM
Posted By Captain Font on 05 Nov 2012 10:19 AM The Office of General Counsel issued the following opinion on July 18, 2007, representing the position of the New York State Insurance Department. Re: Disclosure of fee sharing between a public adjuster and an insurance broker ..... There is, however, no requirement in the Insurance Law or regulations that the sharing of compensation between a public adjuster and a broker be disclosed by the adjuster. Nevertheless, in the interest of full disclosure, the Department believes that it would be prudent for the adjuster to inform the insured of the agreement. For further information you may contact Associate Counsel Alexander Tisch at the New York City Office. Thanks for bringing this up EmFont, Captain Font, or whomever you are. This very issue was also part of the discussion I had with this gentleman. A complaint of his was predicated on the fact that his firm (which is large enough to take a vital interest in aggressive lobbying on a national level) is pushing to amend legislation in NY that would force the Brokers to disclose these referral fees to Adjusters/Insurance Carriers. For those of you who live in Alabama, you may be aware of this firm who is pushing to legislate PA licensing. If so, you will know the firm I speak of. The PA picked up on my consequent expression of awestruck irony and immediately concurred. His firm has been built on word of mouth referrals through a history of satisfying their client base. They've grown the firm without the need to bribe the very souls who receive claim assignments and turn them into the insurance carriers. They absolutely despise other PA's who come into the arena and make them look bad (I can't believe I'm typing this- DISCLAIMER time: I'm just reporting what he told me) to get business through unconventional means that involve a lack of history and true demonstration of their services. I understand that this may create for some delicious fodder, chat on...

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/06/2012 3:37 PM
Posted By brarew on 05 Nov 2012 09:16 PM I am on standby, unfortunately I am a newbie. I have 12 years in insurance defense so I know my way around a policy, Are you an attorney?

ScopeDog

Guest
Posts:8

11/06/2012 11:07 PM
Hey CatAdjusterX, Looks like I got my green light, I took Alex's advice and didn't give it too much thought. Just got on the road Sat. afternoon, I made it here in VA. for Monday morning orientation. I have no idea where the next stop will be but I will do my best to make the most of the situation. Should be getting claims soon, 100's of adjusters are showing up daily. From the looks of things, there will probably be lots of clean up work for all of you more experienced adjusters. Lots of newbees, me included. Most likely I'll be too busy to post once I start to handle some claims, (learning the curve) once I get up to speed, I'll let you know what I think of the situation, (from the newbee view). So far, it looks much greater than I first expected. (judging by the amount of effort the company has exhausted so far). This is quite an operation. I don't know the business side of the IA Firms vs the Carriers and the OA's, it's all a learning curve for me like any new venture is. But I feel good about the situation, I even got a call from another firm that offered a back up plan if things didn't work out, which is always good to have. Well I was looking for a jumping on point, and her name is Sandy. Thanks for your input and Good luck to you and I hope you do well.

Emfont

Guest
Posts:4

11/07/2012 10:36 AM
I am an ex Crawford Manager-and Supervisor during Hurricane Andrew, ex- ARMY JAG officer too. Nothing wrong with reputable PA's. Only wish you could identify them by sight. Newbies are going to get eaten up and their files will get reopen, then they'll wonder what happened to their holdback.

Torrential
Guest

Guest
Posts:9

11/07/2012 7:38 PM
The snow is outrageous. I pity those who are without heat tonight. The birth rate will probably sky rocket in about nine month, and the sadness will turn to joy.

K ung Fu tzu
Member

Member
Posts:76

11/08/2012 7:38 AM
I understand from many adjusters that they are already in the Northeast or are heading in this direction. I kind of found it amusing that one company was first having their orientation in North Carolina and then decided to move it to the northeast......in Richmond, VA. It's funny how the perspective may be for some folks in the south to think of Richmond as the northeast, while many in the Northeast think of Richmond as the deep south. Actually, anything south of DE is considered the 'south' for many. All in good nature, safe travels everyone.

okclarryd

Veteran Member
Posts:954

11/08/2012 3:59 PM

Today, I received the following notice from FEMA:

SPECIAL 2012 NFIP
Adjuster Certification Workshops

Seminars conducted by the National Flood Insurance Program

This is an NFIP Adjuster Certification Workshop,
not a Flood Emergency Briefing

November 14, 2012
Iselin, NJ

8:30am - 4:30pm

Renaissance Woodbridge Hotel
515 US Highway 1 South
Diamond Ballroom
Iselin, NJ 08830

REGISTER

November 15, 2012
Cherry Hill, NJ

8:30am - 4:30pm

Crowne Plaza Hotel
2349 W. Marlton Pike
Riverside Room
Cherry Hill, NJ 08002

REGISTER

In response to the flooding associated with Hurricane Sandy, the NFIP will present two special Adjuster Certification Workshops in New Jersey for qualified adjusters to become certified for the current NFIP Adjuster Certification term ending May 31, 2013.

Registration is now open for these special 2012 NFIP Adjuster Certification Workshops.

Adjusters seeking to become certified must apply for certification with the NFIP Bureau & Statistical Agent, iService. NFIP standards and requirements for Adjuster Certification may be viewed at www.fema.gov/library/viewRe...4.

New applicants and adjusters seeking to upgrade their existing certification are required to submit a completed application to iService. The Adjuster Certification Application can be downloaded at www.fema.gov/library/viewRe...1.

For more information about the adjuster certification process or to contact NFIP iService, please go to www.nfipiservice.com/adj_cert.html.

To sign up to receive NFIP Training Bulletins regarding the 2013 NFIP Adjuster Certification Workshop schedule, please click here.

• • •

The seminar is from 8:30am - 4:30pm. Sign-in begins at 8:00am. Dress is business casual.

CONTINUING EDUCATION
There will be NO CE credits offered for these special workshops.

REGISTRATION INFORMATION
This workshop is FREE, but seating is limited so register early.

Larry D Hardin

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

11/10/2012 8:26 AM
The NFIP may have offered special seminars like this before, but I am unaware of any such offer. This is the first time I have seen the seminars offered after May of any given year. This should serve to indicate just how many claims are expected. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

11/10/2012 9:55 AM
Steve, the NFIP offered these seminars after Katrina, in Hammond, and this year after Issac, in New Orleans. After Irene and after Sandy certifications were extended by email. Newbies are nearly frozen out of NFIP licensing, FCN, and the old cadre are leaving the business. My guess is that this storm, Sandy, will thin the ranks of those that work flood. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

okclarryd

Veteran Member
Posts:954

11/10/2012 11:34 AM
I agree, Chuck, and it's a shame. Flood claims are not quick, easy claims like we all like to do but they pay well. To the adjuster, anyway. The coverage is limited and communication skills are of the utmost importance. These claims allow us to be real adjusters not "run and gun" guys. I avoided flood for a long time and kinda got roped into doing some and, after an attitude adjustment, I really enjoyed them. I got to know a lot of folks that had no idea what they had coming or how the claims process works when the government is envolved. Some weren't very happy with the limited coverage but, once again, communication is the key to closing the claim. That and the endless forms. Happy Trails Larry D Hardin

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

11/10/2012 8:14 PM
Larry, commonsense took a hike along time ago. Flood demonstrates this. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

chadecoen

Guest
Posts:19

11/11/2012 12:05 AM
Hi guys, I got deployed by one of the bigger IA firms to do office duty for a carrier. Getting lots of calls with steep/tall roofs. Not gonna be pretty when snows start. Not a lot of volume and I expect them to start letting people go as soon as next week (just my opinion) but then again they brought on another 80 (inside) folks yesterday. Most of the field guys left the building to go to work yesterday. Call volume has already dropped by half in the week I have been here. But a few friends of mine are calling asking if I want to go out cause the smaller firms they are working for actually have claims so I can't get a good feel for how quickly this is going to fall off. But that's not why I was posting. Someone on the first page brought up a great point about carrying a gun on assignment. I am in a north eastern state right now and I almost left the deep south with my pistol sitting under my arm rest in my truck where it has been for years. Most southern states recognize my states carry permit and it isn't a big deal. The state I am staying in has no carry permits for non law enforcement related people. CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS before driving across country with an illegal firearm in the car. They don't give a doo doo what state you are from and whether or not you have a permit in said state. It will flat ruin your trip, promise. Be safe everyone. And, as an old Army Ranger friend of mine keeps telling me about carrying a weapon, "don't bring anything on to the battle field you don't want stuffed up your hind side. Cause someone you run in to is likely to value their life more than yours and take it from you." This could get really ugly for wind guys when the cold weather comes in. Geesh, I feel like I am on the set of Game of Thrones......WINTER IS COMING! Chad

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/11/2012 5:15 PM
Ok. Now that a week has passed, situation in NYC is more or less clear. Minor wind damages, especially more so in the open coastal areas and spotty flooding on low areas close to the water. Not many have flood insurance in these areas. I inspected a claim a couple of days ago where insured was claiming the water came from the sewer backup. He had exterior water line of 3 feet and completely gutted the basement. However, he could not explain how SEAWEEDS! got to his basement and were seen on the walls. Areas, like Breezy Point are more like a war zone, police, military in there and total mayhem. It's a good opportunity to do some flood work.

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/11/2012 5:18 PM
Posted By ChuckDeaton on 10 Nov 2012 08:14 PM Larry, commonsense took a hike along time ago. Flood demonstrates this. That's true, but flood manuscript and DIC forms have a nice way of returning both dollars and common sense. Conversely, losses adjusted under these forms still aren't for those who believe that they've arrived by the mere receipt of a certification.

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

11/11/2012 7:46 PM
Claims made are claims to be worked, whether coverage is available or not. More than plenty to go around...and the commercial BI claims require inspection to determine if there may be coverage for it.

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

11/11/2012 10:56 PM
Bravo, Huskerman. And when it comes to sewer backup versus flood, the adjuster needs to check with his or her supervisor and/or the carrier before reccommending denial unless he or she wants to be the one in court or on the evening news explaining how sewer backup water and flood water can be separated out. Handle this stuff the way the carrier wants it handled. People tend to see the devastation (and it is there - I've seen plenty of it already) and seek to get our help to indemnify them. Within what the policy allows, we need to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/12/2012 4:42 PM
Good comments Mike and Steve. Just be on the alert for the carriers who believe that payment for these investigation-intensive (no coverage) losses sits on bottom tier of the fee schedule for coverage denials. They may have a TE clause there that allows you to investigate without worrying about a cookie-cut fee bill, but please err on the side of caution. I received two (2) of these losses from an unnamed carrier only because there was a time and expense clause added to the flat rate schedule. During these losses, I secured a non-waiver for both, measured the flood lines (interior and ext.), photographed the drains, commodes, basement, diagrammed, etc. so that they have an airtight defense later on. The T&E request was made, but declined, so these were the last two (2) I took. I refused a butt-load more losses that they needed help on. They've since adjusted the arrangement and had the nerve to ask me to take more. I wanted to tell them that their inexperience and unethical approach to paying the very partners they rely on was a liability and litter the discourse with a few choice words. Fortunately, the better part of me won out this time; I simply told them that this ship had already sailed. To respond specifically to Steve's post regarding flood versus sewer back-up, I read a manuscript form today that excludes them both. These two forms of H20 are listed as sub-captions under the excluded peril of 'Water'. It was nice seeing that they eliminated complications here. The vague, chicken/egg approach created by ambiguous, anti-concurrent causation language was clarified quite well.

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/12/2012 9:16 PM
Most of the policies I handle have a concurrent causation language, which plainly says that it does not matter if there is another peril, which contributed to the damage, flood is excluded, period. Most of BI claims, unless they are really simple ones, go directly to accountants. All denials are handled, in my firm, on T&E basis. But, usually, insured has a shingle or two torn off, so I can get them a couple of dollars for the wind and close the file.

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/12/2012 9:16 PM
Most of the policies I handle have a concurrent causation language, which plainly says that it does not matter if there is another peril, which contributed to the damage, flood is excluded, period. Most of BI claims, unless they are really simple ones, go directly to accountants. All denials are handled, in my firm, on T&E basis. But, usually, insured has a shingle or two torn off, so I can get them a couple of dollars for the wind and close the file.

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

11/13/2012 1:31 AM
Posted By Jud G. on 12 Nov 2012 04:42 PM Good comments Mike and Steve. Just be on the alert for the carriers who believe that payment for these investigation-intensive (no coverage) losses sits on bottom tier of the fee schedule for coverage denials. They may have a TE clause there that allows you to investigate without worrying about a cookie-cut fee bill, but please err on the side of caution. I received two (2) of these losses from an unnamed carrier only because there was a time and expense clause added to the flat rate schedule. During these losses, I secured a non-waiver for both, measured the flood lines (interior and ext.), photographed the drains, commodes, basement, diagrammed, etc. so that they have an airtight defense later on. The T&E request was made, but declined, so these were the last two (2) I took. I refused a butt-load more losses that they needed help on. They've since adjusted the arrangement and had the nerve to ask me to take more. I wanted to tell them that their inexperience and unethical approach to paying the very partners they rely on was a liability and litter the discourse with a few choice words. Fortunately, the better part of me won out this time; I simply told them that this ship had already sailed. To respond specifically to Steve's post regarding flood versus sewer back-up, I read a manuscript form today that excludes them both. These two forms of H20 are listed as sub-captions under the excluded peril of 'Water'. It was nice seeing that they eliminated complications here. The vague, chicken/egg approach created by ambiguous, anti-concurrent causation language was clarified quite well. ** I am very fortunate, Jud to (as in Steve's previous words a few days back "be able to be warm & cozy") but also be an indy inside CAT commercial claims consultant/file examiner. I'm also very fortunate to be working for a carrier that allows us to employ a plethora of expert vendors in addition to the dedicated IA firms that we have on board...and we have full reign to assign those extra helpers to assist the IA's on the not-run-of-the-mill everyday losses that they normally see. We make exceptions to the fee schedules all of the time, for example telling them to add T&E to the fee for special requests that will not show up in the gross loss. That's why I probably like working for the carrier that I do, and probably why I see the same field guys on a lot of my files over the past several years. How long will this last? Hard to tell, shucks (that's Nebraska vernacular), we're all getting to be a bunch of old fart$, but at least I'm staying warm & cozy. God bless the rest of you!

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

11/13/2012 6:31 AM
I was so glad to see a ranch house yesterday at the end of the day, I nearly wept. What were these builders thinking when they designed these houses on Staten Island? I worked Westchester County in 2004 and did most of it with a 12 foot ladder, even on the two story pull ups. After five years as a claims analyst working for a carrier in California I am discovering the difference between getting my "roof legs" back when I was 52 versus getting my "roof legs" back when I am 57. This assignment is not for the faint of heart. Did I ever imagine my muscles could ache like this when I got up in the morning? Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

11/13/2012 5:36 PM
Posted By Alex_Chernov on 12 Nov 2012 09:16 PM ...which plainly says that it does not matter if there is another peril, which contributed to the damage, flood is excluded, period. Alex, the carrier should have consulted you when they wrote the policy. While it appears quite plain to people like us, this will change once this language is placed in front of a jury of our peers. If the jury thinks it is confusing, then they will decide how this contract of adhesion should afford coverage.

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/13/2012 11:43 PM
Posted By Jud G. on 13 Nov 2012 05:36 PM Posted By Alex_Chernov on 12 Nov 2012 09:16 PM ...which plainly says that it does not matter if there is another peril, which contributed to the damage, flood is excluded, period. Alex, the carrier should have consulted you when they wrote the policy. While it appears quite plain to people like us, this will change once this language is placed in front of a jury of our peers. If the jury thinks it is confusing, then they will decide how this contract of adhesion should afford coverage. We are agents of the carrier, and if anybody gets sued it is not going to be us but the carrier. We are reporting facts as we see them and final coverage determination is upon the insurance company. If hypothetical jury decides to afford coverage, so be it. And, yes, language that excludes coverage for flood regardless of concurrent causation is clear and unambiguous, no matter how stupid or/and biased the jury is. Water backup is also EXCLUDED, in case of this particular carrier and sometimes (rarely) is added by limited coverage endorsement, so good luck in court to anybody who wants to challenge that.

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

11/14/2012 7:22 AM
As Charles Dickens wrote (I believe it was Mr. Bumble who uttered the words, but have no time to look it up), "The Law is a Ass (sic)". The courts will do what they will do, and it may have nothing to do with what the policy says, or for that matter what the law says. That is my take away from spending a good portion of my time over the last five years handling Hurricane Wilma litigation files. Many decisions will be made by the carriers five years from now that cannot be foreseen today. Make sure you read the policy, read the endorsements, and follow the carrier instructions. And...document that it is the carrier who is asking that the claim be handled in that manner. CYA and you will be fine. Do what you can to help the insured within the confines of what the policy and the carrier instructions allow. And - another take away from the last five years - the most difficult files tomorrow will be those in which the initial interaction between the adjuster and the insured goes poorly. More lawsuits arise out of arrogance on the part of the adjuster than on any claim denial. Trust me on this one. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

okclarryd

Veteran Member
Posts:954

11/14/2012 8:34 AM
Gettin' old ain't for Sissies...................... Happy Trails Larry D Hardin

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

11/14/2012 2:35 PM
I am not callous or arrogant. I just can not do anything for people that had flood given what their policy says and intructions given by the client. I am starting to get business interruption claims triggered by flood and off-premises power interruption. Gets interesting day by day. Few marina claims too, docks are gone, total losses mostly.

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

11/14/2012 7:16 PM
The arrogant comment was not directed at you, Alex. You actually seem to be dedicated and knowledgable. It was a comment to the catadjusting community at large, as sort of reminder that hubris is not warranted in situations like this. I was actually thinking about two files I received when I started with my (now) past employer. My boss told me, "This file is your number one priority, and this other one is your second highest priority." They had both gone severely south. What they had in common is that the initial independent adjuster on each file had treated the insured poorly on first meeting. Each adjuster had virtually accused the insured of fraud and treated the insured accordingly. The first took two years of finessing the high powered and hard nosed attorney to reach an amicable settlement. The second went through the court system where we lost every decision we should have easily won. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

11/16/2012 12:35 AM
There is currently a banner ad from Cimmaron Claims looking for help on the Stanton Island losses. Where is Stanton Island? I've googled it, and nothing comes up. I think I know what they meant...but, who's minding the house?

olderthendirt
Member

Member
Posts:160

11/16/2012 8:16 AM
If the vendor can not spell, then it is a grate place fore all the adjustirs whoo caint spel. Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put in it

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

11/19/2012 10:03 PM
Know before you go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Know before you go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

olderthendirt
Member

Member
Posts:160

11/19/2012 10:43 PM
Chuck, I am so happy to be sitting (ie already working) this one out. Maybe in the spring if they need clean up. Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it depends on what you put in it

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

11/20/2012 2:24 PM
"Cimmaron (sic) Claims looking for help" Know before you go, know before you go, know before you go....................... AdjusterPro --- Know before you go, know before you go, know before you go ......................... "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

mo.cat.adjuster
Guest

Guest
Posts:2

12/02/2012 12:21 PM
What is everyone's take on Sandy? I've done 26 claims in Mass. and 39 in Long/Staten Islands. So far, that's been it. Were there so many underemployed adjusters this year that the majority of the claims have been handled? I, as I am sure everyone, need some more work. Is the next move Calif?

chadecoen

Guest
Posts:19

12/02/2012 8:33 PM
Rumor has it State farm just sent 1000 staff and IA adjusters from the Frederick, MD and Dallas, TX call centers to NY in an attempt to stay in compliance on over 15k claims. Many, many inside adjusters very unhappy. And remember, SF doesn't write flood policies. So if SF has over 15k unreviewed wind or BUSD claims in field I can't imagine what other companies have waiting to be inspected. Just my .02 Be safe out there.

CatAdjusterX

Veteran Member
Posts:964

12/02/2012 11:26 PM
Posted By mo.cat.adjuster on 02 Dec 2012 12:21 PM What is everyone's take on Sandy? I've done 26 claims in Mass. and 39 in Long/Staten Islands. So far, that's been it. Were there so many underemployed adjusters this year that the majority of the claims have been handled? I, as I am sure everyone, need some more work. Is the next move Calif? ............................ Mo cat, I still have quite a few of my rookie members working wind claims throughout the NE. Most of my moderate to significantly experienced folks "appear" to be doing well with "some" indicating "No end in sight" Nevertheless, I would venture to say the lion's share of claims have rested on flood work (NFIP). Even with that, I believe it was stated that only 14% to 21% of flood damaged properties had NFIP coverage or "private" flood coverage. FEMA and other federal entities are requiring homeowner's who didn't have any flood coverage to file a claim with their HO-policy PRIOR to being eligible for either grants or SBA loans. I think many of the wind claims are going to end up CWOP. My opinion: I think the first round is close to being wrapped up and the remaining work will be for those rookies who shined and experienced hands to work cleanup. We cannot forget that Governor Cuomo has opened the floodgates by allowing non resident PA's to come work claims in NY. I foresee a "Katrina esque"(probably not a word) situation with massive amounts of reopens and litigation. So with that, I think those uber experienced hands (with reopen and lit. experience) will have work for the foreseeable future "A good leader leads..... ..... but a great leader is followed !!" CatAdjusterX@gmail.com

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

12/03/2012 2:30 PM
Reopens will come from a few sources and I can readily think of three. If you all know of others, chime in. 1) The typical, files that are under-paid due to inexperienced adjusters, difficult customers, and/or moving too fast, etc. 2) Another group will come from a deluge of people who have second homes and carriers who insure vacant/REO properties. 3) Another group will come from multiple stages of litigation and a plethora of litigated issues. I have a few carriers who have decided to hold their ground on the sewer back-up losses. I suspect that they will eventually fold since too many others are already. I'm just waiting for them to realize the tenacity of the average New Yorker and discover their love for litigation. This will also be a major time for New York to reinvent the wheel as it pertains to the wind vs. flood issues. Florida did it through Mierzwa, then MS, and then Louisiana. Anyone around for TX and Ike's fallout? Why on earth would the Empire State bow out of this? (rhetorically speaking).

Jud G.

Advanced Member
Posts:509

12/11/2012 8:55 PM
Posted By CatAdjusterX on 02 Dec 2012 11:26 PM So with that, I think those uber experienced hands (with reopen and lit. experience) will have work for the foreseeable future To a degree, I agree with this statement. However, the typical pay of a Re-Inspector position is so piss-poor that your average adjuster inhales the smoke blown up his skirt and concedes off the high he got from getting a Promotion. Most re-inspector assignments cap you at a day rate or pay for the next tier on the fee schedule. Some have fine print clauses laced with 'if the prior adjuster should have known, then we simply don't owe any increased fees'. The only way this phase of the storm becomes a legitimate arrangement is when the carrier pays at a minimum, General Adjuster (more experienced adjuster) time and expense from the time the reopen is received. A second method is if the tiered fee schedule gets reset from dollar one. Many good adjusters are aware of these issues. They either have the wisdom to avoid them, get decent pay arrangements, or they are able to find work elsewhere. Trust me, getting to be the ''Hero Adjuster" gets old quick. At this point, you're dealing with customers who have serious issues (legitimate vs. illegitimate; it doesn't matter). Plus, you're re-working the entire claim even though someone hacked up a load of crap for in-disputed payment.

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

12/11/2012 10:02 PM
I agree Jud, it sucks getting old...and knowing it...and having others tell you.

Atfulldraw
Member

Member
Posts:88

12/12/2012 1:06 AM
lol @ Jud. those "promotions" aren't all they are cracked up to be. I used to get a little rush when I got called to handle a "hot" claim, especially a "hot supplement". Now, they all get vetted before they are accepted......"Oh, a $110K supplement on a $4K initial, you say?.....yeah, I'll take that one." Rod

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

12/13/2012 1:10 AM
At New York Nation GA T & E rates assisting with closing mishandled, disputed and litigated claims is an excellent gig. And with the quality of the claims reps that turned out for Sandy there will be work for years. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

12/19/2012 12:17 AM
Speaking for myself, Jud, I've often made more money after everyone else goes home and I am the last one standing. However, I'm not really sure this is the venue to do that. This has been an unseasonable warm winter in New York so far, but I have had to wait for the frost to burn off the roof a time or two. And snow is likely to be right around the corner. And...these roofs are the kind that can kill you even when they are dry. So maybe I'm older and wiser, or maybe I'm just wiser. My home in California is looking pretty good about now. I won't be heading out just yet, and have some reinspects scheduled, but I may do the unthinkable and leave while there are still assignments on the table. As for New Yorkers, I've met some great people here on Staten Island and am glad to be part of the solution for them. They have been friendly, patient, understanding and cooperative as a whole. I cannot complain at all about that. I'm sure I can find something else to complain about. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

12/19/2012 6:53 AM
The residential risks on this island are murderous for a wind adjuster. First, many are on pilings, the BFE is around 14 feet so the first elevated floor is above 14 feet. The roof is a minimum of 36 feet above that and is a cut up, 10/12 pitch. And now it is winter, in January, February and March it will be cold. Yesterday the wind off the Atlantic would cut you in half. To top that off most are no claims. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

12/20/2012 8:53 PM
Thought there might be a little more discussion & activity on this thread...but is everyone just busy? tired? sick & tired of being tired?..or nothing worth commenting or caring about? Have to realize this is two falls in a row with the late Cat's in the Northeast, and it's a different animal from the norm.

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

12/21/2012 7:58 AM
Tired, Huskerguy? Yes indeed. Still busy? Absolutely. It isn't the old days when you hand sketched a diagram, whipped out a hand estimate, turned in the file closed, and left the staff adjusters to clean up the mess with supplement requests and reinspects. At least one of the carriers is pretty much expecting full handling right down to the letter writing - which means it's sort of like being handed six months worth of daily claims in a three day period and being told to inspect and handle them in a two month period or less. But that's what catadjusting is, and that's what catadjusters do. And sooner or later we "hit the wall". This post, however, is about all the internet free time I have today. Lots still to write up. And the storm that's coming through right now is going to exacerbate things. Today is a good day to stay inside. So I'm going to sit here for the next 18 hours and make this pile of claims shrink, at least a little bit. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

12/21/2012 7:27 PM
Man, with the wind off the Atlantic blowing, it was cold, gloves, parka and knitted cap weather. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

Proadjuster58
Guest

Guest
Posts:2

12/26/2012 11:02 PM
anyone out there handling flood for CNC..just curious...I took nearly 70 personal lines flood claims and a couple commerical and rom where I sit..looks like a long haul to closure and approval......:)..... :<(

ChuckDeaton
Life Member

Senior Member
Posts:1110

12/31/2012 11:56 PM
Looks to me like most of the payment for handling flood claims is going to come in the 1st quarter of 2014. The cut off for the Proof of Loss isn't until the end of October, 2013. "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt

chaseolin

Guest
Posts:1

01/01/2013 6:54 PM
I am a new adjuster. Received my license right after Thanksgiving 2012. I applied at the 4 larger IA firms. With a few days all 4 had texted/called wanting to send me to NY. I went with the first one. I drove 1600 miles one way. Atleast 500 adjusters were there in Melville for orientation (they had 3 orientations the same week I was there). I heard that some were being sent home right then (with 4 days pay). By the time I was sent home, over half were already gone. I only worked 2 weeks. My friend said there are about 200 left (mostly the old timers or family/friends of the IA managers). At the daily rate, I may have broke even. Any advise on choosing the right IA firm when several call at same time? Any IA firms better than others? Is that normal to call in 1500 adjusters when within 2 weeks half are sent home? Should I wait on the next storm or get a job doing regular claims (for experience)? I have saved money so I dont really have to work. I am looking for positive input. I am fresh out of the military after being in 12 years.

Medulus
Moderator

Veteran Member
Posts:786

01/04/2013 12:06 AM
Chaseolin, No one can really advise you on whether to wait for the next storm or get a job with a carrier. I worked for State Farm for five years and Nationwide for 2 years before I hanged (hung?, no, hanged I think) up my proverbial shingle and went independent. I'm glad I took that route, but I was chomping at the equally proverbial bit for the last two and a half years of that as I waited for the right moment to take my career into my own hands. I have been part of the kind of operation which you just experienced, and I lucked out even then. I went to Virginia Beach for Hurricane Isabel with a firm that called in everyone and their brother and then called in their sisters too. However, I was one of the few with commercial experience. So, when the mix of residential and small commercial claims dried up after three weeks, I had one claim left. It was for the City of Hampton, VA with 64 buildings on the policy, including a high rise city hall and a domed sports stadium. This took me three more weeks and basically doubled my income for the assignment. Preferable, however, is an assignment with a firm that calls in fewer adjusters for a longer period of time. I spent ten months working Katrina on the Mississippi and Alabama coasts and was the last one standing for the last four months for the firm for which I was working. I have been out of the field for too long to tell you exactly which companies operate in which ways. I've been on staff for a carrier for five years, and this is my first storm back as an independent. The real trick is not getting a major hurricane assignment. The real trick is finding the smaller assignments that serve as your bread and butter between the major storms. The best assignments are often the storms that don't make the national news for more than a night, and getting called to those takes constant work contacting and recontacting companies in the interim until you find the company that dovetails with your skills and ambitions. Send me a private message with your contact info, and I will help advise you if I can. And thank you for your service. Steve Ebner CPCU AIC AMIM "With great power comes great responsibility." (Stanley Martin Lieber, Amazing Fantasy # 15 August 1962)

pondman

Member
Posts:90

01/05/2013 10:53 AM
Take Steve's comment as golden from the heavens above. I feel for all the adjusters that drove in from far away. I was doing BUSD and Wind in Baltimore when a larger company opened an additional CAT call center. It was amazing to follow the storm from the inside. After all was said and done, we were 9% of the total work force and did 15% of the work. It seems every 4 hours things changed and what was needed to be handled. Due to the Governor's of NY and NJ extreme pressure was put on the insurance industry. That is why CAT call centers had adjusters sent out, every newbie was called in, and claims were told to be completed and handled within 8 days. This made it a no win situation for those wanting or needing to make money. This was not a normal storm or CAT. The "oldtimers" have it correct when they say it will have tremendous "back end" work due to the quickness of the claim handling, and when the weather warms up. Your first several years in the industry will be learning curves. Pick your company, stay in contact, and make yourself available. Remember: Give them what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. Good Luck ! Give them what they want, when they want it, and how they want it !

Torrential
Guest

Guest
Posts:9

01/06/2013 2:08 AM
I didn't go up to Sandy. as fate may have intervened ... Two days before I was set to leave home, I stepped through a big commercial roof. I wasn't hurt, but it was only the third time in over 20 years this has happened to me without any warning, and never on a commercial. It gave me pause, literally. Then, the night before as I was packing, we had the worst hailstorm in anyone's memory. The entire core fell about two miles from where I live, up to 11" deep in drifts. Mind you, this is where hail doesn't normally occur, and it damaged many homes on every elevation. Weeks before, I had dreamed of just such a hailstorm occurring where I live, but when I woke up I was in disbelief, given the amount and size of the damage I saw and the direction the storm came from. We don't get hail like that where I live, and only once had I seen it come from the West. It's also the only time in my life I recall ever dreaming of hail, despite seeing a ton of it on the road. If curious fate intervened on my behalf, I wouldn't argue with anyone who is getting tired of Sandy's sand in their shoes.

K ung Fu tzu
Member

Member
Posts:76

01/06/2013 7:25 AM
I've been too busy to chime in to the forum, but got up early to do some paperwork this morning, saw my inbox and decided to take a breather for an hour. I'm probably late to the party, but one thing that is really standing out for me in this storm is the downside and the pace of the electronic communication age. The expectations some customers (and carriers) have are becoming more and more difficult. While technology has made much of the job quite easy, there is a growing mass of the populus who are so used to everything happening in a split second in their personal lives, they have lost that perspective in the business world. Many people are quite patient, but there is a growing number of customers who can't grasp the idea of a 'delay' in receiving responses. I long since cancelled text messaging on my work phone a couple of years ago after it would just sit there and vibrate non-stop and my email may be next....looking at one now....."wats my claim stat txs"........ Maybe I'm become one of those old fart guys.......

wscook

Member
Posts:68

01/08/2013 9:09 PM
Does Sandy have any RVers on site and if so where? What are parking site costs? William S Cook William S Cook Public Adjuster/Umpire/Appraiser

HuskerCat

Veteran Member
Posts:762

01/08/2013 9:34 PM
Posted By William S Cook on 08 Jan 2013 09:09 PM Does Sandy have any RVers on site and if so where? What are parking site costs? William S Cook I'm sure someone can help you out, Mr. Cook; let's say, perhaps...for about 15% of the rental/lease agreement plus 15% of added amenities no other RV'r might have access to? Hey, everybody has to make a living. PA's included.

Alex_Chernov
Member

Member
Posts:67

01/10/2013 12:16 AM
Now that we are two months into this, some things become apparent. 1. This was and still is unprecedented flood event. Tremendous claim volume has been mitigated only by many businesses and homes not having flood insurance. But what trickles down to me in form of forced bank policies, manuscript Llloyds and flood endorsements on commercial package policies is very telling of the enormous size of the disaster. My local office got something like 40,000 claims in first two weeks after event. They hand picked most pressing and complex ones (or rather what they thought was that) and gave it to the staff. The rest went to CAT pool and was handled by venerable road warriors on F250s with southern plates. 2. This aint over. This will be a drawn out complicated event with a lot of litigation, which will change insurance landscape in NY. Public adjusters are still overwhelmed, but wait another couple of months and we will see a bunch of reopens (time and expense, baby). 3. Cleaup is coming. I am already getting some files from CAT adjusters that left the area, where carriers want us to get an agreed price or reinspect the loss. There will be more of that. 4. NFIP flood files are not worth it. I mean, if I had no choice I would do it. But, after doing and few files for this government program, I have to admit, that amount of paperwork and general BS I have to produce to close the file is way to much compared to wind files or non-NFIP flood. Not even worth their changed fee schedule. 5. You only become general in war. :) No pun intended. I have handled files, the size and complexity of which would scare me senseless, would that not be for the fact that I had a dozen of similar files sitting on my desk. Sandy took little place called NYC and shook it up really hard, and I like where I landed.

Torrential
Guest

Guest
Posts:9

01/10/2013 11:50 PM
Posted By Alex_Chernov on 10 Jan 2013 12:16 AM 5. You only become general in war. :) No pun intended. I have handled files, the size and complexity of which would scare me senseless, would that not be for the fact that I had a dozen of similar files sitting on my desk. Sandy took little place called NYC and shook it up really hard, and I like where I landed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well said Alex .... and Uncle Sam isn't an actuary, but watch him pretend to be.

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