Adjuster Estimates

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Last Post 09/16/2010 2:16 PM by  Ray Hall
There must be a need for experienced Adjusters
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Goldust
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09/15/2010 3:40 PM

       There must be a need somewhere for us experienced adjusters. There is not a Bachelors degree alive that prepares a Newbie for what is in store for them when they get face to face w/ an insured. or an Attorney! Or a PA.

    JERRY TAYLOR
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    jdacree
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    09/15/2010 4:19 PM
    At the rate storms have fizzled in the last few years, in a few more years there will be NO experienced adjusters. In the schools and certification classes that I have attended when you look around the crowd is generally divided between 50+ year olds and 20-30 year olds. Guess which ones are the experienced and the ones that are not. If we have a few more dry years the experienced group will start to dwindle down from retirement or whatever, and the other group will not have diddly for experience.

    As noted above ther is no educational experience that will prepare a newbie for the field. Any OJT that can be gained from sales (overcoming objections), management (time discipline), construction (how a structure is built), or any other field that can transfer it's teachings to adjusting is not considered as experience. Those lucky enough to have worked along on jobs with adjusters, have no manner of putting that experience on an application or thier resume, so that experience while good, does not count towards that first deployment.

    While realizing the above post was aimed at getting experienced folks in the field, my comment is in keeping the experience pipeline full.
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    WILLIS
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    09/15/2010 6:16 PM

    JD  You are so correct.  I was just today talking with a friend in NC, both of us have over 40 yrs experience, but carriers do not want us. They want to young kid who is geek smart and fast.  I worked in an office for two weeks to close open claims. I was by far the oldest person there. The manager was under 35; most of her staff under 30 with no field experience, yet they were reviewing and ripping seasoned IA's.  Their moniker, if you do not understand the issue just deny it.  I had stacks of covered losses that were flat denied. If an insured was phone difficult the adjuster vanished. They hide behind voice mail and email.  They were stunned that I would not use voice mail and would actually talk to a angry insured, resolving their claim on the phone.  

    All the certifications and class training in the world will not prepare you to deal with an insured whose home they cherished and worked for was just severely damaged by a Cat 5.   I have witnessed scores of difficult claims turned into nightmares by inept "adjusters" who convinced their vendor they could handle anything when in reality they just made that loss worse.  Now imagine that same adjuster has 50 of those nightmares. 

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    jdacree
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    09/15/2010 7:05 PM
    As an IA (rookie) I can see what the carriers may be attempting with the younger and educated staff, they are looking for contiintuity over the long haul. But what they are hiring is not IA's. The IA field is what I was referring to above. The Independents that hire us are the ones that are going to get shortchanged from lack of experience. Now I do realize that the Independents are under some restriction on the class and experience of personnel put into the field as a carrier representative. If the independent puts anyone out there that can fog a mirror, the carrier will cruisfy them.

    A year or so ago Ray Hall came up with a "ficus tree" idea that was a workable format for the training of newbies in a manner that would be transferable to files closed on a storm, to be listed on thier resume. When reading many of the posts contained herin, the experienced hands are not recepative to taking on a helper and letting them learn, there is nothing in it for them. Also some of the recent training classes that I have been to for two of the major independents indicate that the carries are forbidding anyone but the assigned adjuster to be on the insureds property. Some form of system where the "newbie" is mentored in the field at some reduced fee schedule, with a mentor that is responsible for their training at some fee schedule that they can live with is a very good enviornment to maintain and transfer the experience levels that I alluded to above being lost.

    Hopeful that some of the organizations recogonize this need and working with the carriers try to set up something that can be used for training during the slow times so that we do not have the disasters from warm bodies at major events that we have all read about on the forum.
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    Ray Hall
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    09/15/2010 9:58 PM

    I would like to know hom many unsealed shingles on a slope, totals out the slope ? Who make this determination the roofing salesman, the maker of the estimationg program, some one in India, or the largest homeower writer in the USA or Hagge Eng. I meet roofers ever day and they think I am senile when I ask that question.

    Also what is a fair price to reseal a shingle ? No one has a $ figure for this.... no one, please name one software program. Why it was not damage until Hurricane IKE, but I started working wind lift in January 2009 for a storm that hit on 9/13/08. When you ask the roofer if the shingle can be unsealed from any other cause other than hurricane Ike, the roofers can not answer.

    Texas is in big trouble, if a few wind lifted shingles can total out a roof. I heard today that some of the roofers in this area are now up to $70.00 per square for off and haul away. Folks this 350% increase since the summer of 2008. How does the insurance carriers tolerate this.  I don,t think they care what hazard insurance cost as they do nothing to fight this practice. this is in some estimating programs for Harris, Ft Bend and Montgomery County.

    All of you contractors tyrned adjusters should be able weigh in on this ... Please post your comments.

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    jdacree
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    09/16/2010 7:53 AM
    Xactimate does not list a re-seal price for shingles. I have taken the time to look at the materials and below is the best cost that I could come up with if I were to have to re-seal my own roof.

    Hand sealing of 3 tab shingles

    Materials
    Tube roofing tar Mfg expected coverage 30 LF ¼ x ¼ bead appx cost $1.90 per tube.

    Labor
    One roofing technician @ appx. $ 12.00 per hour

    Application
    Per Mfg instruction insure that sealing surfaces are free of dirt, dust, debris etc.

    A test square would consist of:

    10 LF feet of shingles consisting of appx 22 rows (120”/5.5”). Using 30 LF per tube of caulk this will take appx 8 tubes of caulk per square at a material cost of $15.20 (8*1.90) and an expected labor to clean and seal of $18.00 (1.5 hours per square*12.00). Not allowing for sales taxes or any profit margin this is a labor and materials cost of $33.20 per square for resealing. Also not included are the replacements of those marginal shingles that break across the crease line during the re-seal process.

    The above is based on the manufactures instructions on the application of the roofing tar. The labor is the expected time for the roofing individual to lift, clean and apply sealant to each shingle. If I were to contract for this job, I would also not warrant against leaks.

    As noted there is no O&P figured into this cost if i were to have to hire a contractor to do this job, and I feel that most contractors would not provide any warrenty against leaks. Just my 2 cents worth.
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    ALANJ
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    09/16/2010 8:17 AM
    Two quick notes on this thread.
    1) Does resealing shingles void the roof warranty? If it does void the warranty is this the correct way to address this type of roof claim?

    2) I have heard many experienced adjusters say, that if nothing hit this year, they would get out of this business and move on with life.
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    jdacree
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    09/16/2010 8:37 AM
    In response to question 1, throughout this forum are many discussions on this subject. Hagg, manufacturers, adjusters, contractors, and carriers all have different thoughts. In my reading of the posts on this subject it appears that the safe procedure is to comply with the instructions by the carrier, properly documented, and you may be exempt (??) from fault.
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    Ray Hall
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    09/16/2010 11:47 AM

    You have it right Jim, the carriers are always in the picture and so is the vendor. These two should have surerior knowledge and employees actions below this level can not be disclaimed in the good old English Vommon Law system that we use. It,s always tried, BUT most attorneys can win these cases on their first case in any US court house. You san not CONTRACT  away your tort liability. Its called master & servant.

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    jdacree
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    09/16/2010 1:02 PM
    Ray most cases filed by an attorny or PA more than likely will be paid, but if the adjuster has made his denial based on written direction from the vendor or carrier, he is not guilty of error or ommision, or bad faith is he???
    Jim Acree Stupidity is the art of not trying to learn Ignorance is the lack of opportunity to learn I am ignorant
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    ChuckDeaton
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    09/16/2010 2:10 PM
    What adjuster ever denied a claim?
    "Prattling on and on about being an ass with experience doesn't make someone experienced. It just makes you an ass." Rod Buvens, Pilot grunt
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    Ray Hall
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    09/16/2010 2:16 PM

    We all do what we are told to do. If you wonder off the reservation the wolves will eat you. If you stay on the reservation under the desk, you may also be consumed; but the carrier or the vendor can not blame everthing on the dumb field adjuster, it just will not work and the money usaly come down from the top. The Texas adjusters who were named in the Texas lawsuits served the purpose, keep the suits in the court it was filed in, instead of federal court.,I don,t know  a nery few cat. adjusters who write their own letters to the insured. Most are some template letter and thats good. Just say it was a template letter just like the computer program you had to use and the price guide etc.

    Most of the TX adjusters and TX vendors were non suited for 4 years from the date of the suit by the plaintiff attorney. No body wants to sue a poor working man who has a house car and little else.

    I have never seen in my years a lawsuit for a first or third party claim; IF an insurance policy was not covering the Accident, occurance etc., and the jury does not know this... yea...........but it never gets to a jury... oop .15% does..I think.

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