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there is a similar issue with carpet. 12' wide room doesn't really have any waste. But adjusters nowdays can't do drop and roll calculations because they have never been taught. So XM8 added an automatic feature to add waste factor. And now even fewer adjusters can correctly calculate carpet waste. So the technology does the thinking, but it is not always done correctly. just my 2 cents, thanks for letting me share.

I recently took over some files where the adjust did not add waste to roofing, as Xmate did the waste for carpets he assumed it did the waste for the roof. The average modern high billing young adjuster doesn't have time to read the notes in Xmate and learn.

Having the satellite imaging is not, nor will it ever be used in lieu of an adjuster. People in this business need to stop acting like it is. It's a verification, another tool you can use in the adjustment of a loss. Just like Xactimate didn't kill the need for good adjusters, satellite imaging is not going to kill it either.

As an independent, having a tool like that only helps strengthen the validity of your report. Also, I have not seen any carriers adopt the use, but I have seen many of the IA firms mandate it.

Good point Leland.

When I talk to people who have been using various software for many years the problem many of them seem to have is that the software programs were developed by techies with little or no experience in the field they are designing for.

I think Xactimate started out like many of the others, but along the way they have actually started to make some progress in adapting to what field users really need.

It seems now that often times when I go into work on interior items like carpet, the problems come more from my lack of understanding than from the software. I'm not saying the software is perfect by any means, but that now my knowledge may be lagging behind in some areas.

Either way it keeps life interesting and keeps me learning.

History Lesson with regards to adjusting software development:

Xact was started by a contractor for other contractors. Simsol was started by an adjuster for other adjusters. Both programs write best-of-breed estimates when in the hands of good estimators. If an adjuster or contractor are too closely relying on either package to estimate their losses they are a train wreck waiting to happen. Know your craft, learn how to hand write and calculate your losses and you will be a success in adjusting or contracting. As they say in golf "It's not the ARROW it's the INDIAN!" Software is only as good and the person at the computer. If you don't know what waste factor percentage to add to your carpet calcs, read a book and learn how to do it. There are carpet and flooring calculating software programs out there that cost thousands of dollars - it's not easy. Adjusters make an educated guess and most of the time come very close. Contractors live and die by their numbers so they have to be right on the mark or a little over for a cushion. If an adjuster's calcs come up short, a supplemental claim will not keep them up at night. If a contractor comes up short, he's lucky to break-even on the carpet for the job.

I just returned from two of the largest trade shows and conferences in our industry (PLRB for standard property losses and the National Flood Conference for water claims) - I can't sleep, still strung out from the airline flights so CADO is relaxing me. This year's hurricane season is predicted to be VERY active. There is still time to learn your craft, learn your craft, and (yes), learn your craft! If you are reading this post you are in a great industry. Software will not save the adjuster who doesn't know what he or she is doing but it will make a true professional look outstanding - and in our business that means more claims and a secure future....just my two cents..

I worked for a restoration contractor and also a carpet outlet that managed the installation. I was taught by one person so I don't know how other people do it. Here's how I learned to do carpet waste sometimes called the drop and roll method:

Draw little rectangles more or less to scale for each room. Don't worry where you put them on the page, but it helps to separate them from each other unless you have the typical 2 bedrooms/closets where they are both 12' wide and the closets are next to each other- draw those together because the 2 bedrooms and 2 closets can be calculated as one long room.

mark the dimensions

Next it helps to get a different color pen to draw the carpet layout, so you can see the difference between the room and the carpet you are rolling out.

So for example if you have a 9' x 10' room, you can draw an imaginary piece of carpet that is 12' x9 or oriented 90 degrees the other way, draw 12' x 10', or draw both rectangles to be thorough. Normally you should use 12' x something, because most carpet is 12' wide. A lot of popular carpets also come 15' wide, and can be easily ordered 15" wide, but 12' is most common. So draw the carpet rectangles 12' x whatever covers the room.

In the example above the 9' piece (cut from a 12' wide roll) would have a waste piece of 2' x 9'. Orienting the carpet the other way, and cutting 10' off the roll, would yield a waste piece of 3 x 10.

I actually had to dray the little rectangles to be able to type the sentence above, you might be able to do it in your head but seeing it on paper is way easier.

So obviously the way you orient the carpet affects the amount of waste.

But here's where it gets tricky. Let's say the only other rooms getting carpet are two 3' x 5' closets. Both of these two closets can be carpeted from the waste when you create a 3 x 10 waste piece. So if you ordered only 10' off the 12' wide roll you would have basically zero waste for the 3 rooms.

(And an XM8 estimate might give you 10% waste)

You really can't see this going on unless you draw the rooms and play around with the carpet orientation. Doing these little drawings and playing around with it takes a little bit of time but it reduces the amount of money spent on carpet.

This was part of my job to make these little drawings so we could order the least amount of carpet and have as little waste as possible. I would often go over it with the installer because if the installer didn't know how I was laying it out he might come up short.

You would be surprised how often the waste would be zero or just a few square feet.

I would do a similar thing with tile to sometimes just order barely enough, and not have a left over box. Three percent waste on tile was not unusual. With certain major hardware stores I wouldn't worry about calculating carefully, because if we bought there we could return any extra boxes. (But the prices were higher)

To put this carpeting in Xactimate you would specify the dimensions of the cuts for each room; ie. 10' from a 12' roll; 15' from a 12' roll, etc. You can also specify the waste generated ie. waste piece 3' x 12'. And THEN you can do an upstairs closet and enter the install material quantity as "0" and specify in your note that the carpet is coming from the waste piece in the downstairs living room.

For such a closet you would need 3 line items:

removal only at actual sq footage
material only at zero sq footage
labor only at actual sq footage

You can't go as crazy with different orientations of the carpet if there is an obvious pattern to the weave of the carpet- turning things 90 degrees works fine on a shag carpet, impossible with a patterned berber.

Also, like big red taught me, the insured might deserve to get new carpet that runs the same direction as before, to minimize the appearance of the seams.

If you ever see a patterned berber in a big room like a bank lobby the seams will be very obvious. We used to make the customer sign a waiver if they insisted on patterned berber with seams.

As you can see, it is a little time consuming to calculate drop and roll, and that's a big reason people don't do it. I don't do it much anymore, and nobody expects me to either.

But you should think twice about allowing 10% waste on a room that is 12' wide.

Posted By Jay R on 13 Apr 2010 03:01 AM

The site visit will not only ascertain damage, but will also address all the other things that need to be looked at, layers, type of shingle, drip edge or siders' edge, code compliance issues ( spaced decking, chimney crickets, ice and water, etc.) collateral damage, and let's not forget interacting with the homeowner.

Good points Jay and I hope carriers will begin to shift in your favor back against the inevitable trend towards relying on very limited inspections in the wake of supplemental technology.  Mostly, it is the smaller carriers that chose the purist and old fashioned way of doing things.  I seek vendors who seek this business and continue to be safe for now.

It's great to surround yourself with words you want to hear, but as the events unfold, I am forced to improve upon my game or face the inevitable.  On my recent cat trip, I met a couple of carpenters that were assigned to inspect the roof and provide the information you mentioned above.  They did not have to secure dimensions.  The dimensions and diagrams were all secured by satellite.

 

As for home visits, I am a likeable guy when it comes to dealing with the homeowner, but let's face it- the general public thinks insurance adjusters are scum.  Therefore, if the major insurance carrier can present a reasonable offer without putting the homeowner through the concern of who their adjuster may be, then they've won.

 

For the thousands upon thousands of catastrophe claims that can be resolved from a desktop, a business decision comes into play and absolves the need and cost for an onsite visit.  Unfortunately, your credible points only work for the small percentage of claims that end up in the hands of the few and the proud adjusters who are experienced and/or are on top of their game.  Sadly, though, these adjusters will be working harder per claim because of this aspect.  Hopefully, these carriers will readily concede to allow TE billing when needed- many are becoming more averse to this.

 

I suspect that it is those claims that can't be resolved from a desktop are the ones that either have a tree blocking it or those with insureds who are considered morale (not necessarily moral) hazards- like those in their respective state's 'fair plan'.  As you know, weather prone is not the only thing that makes insured's a risky and/or expensive prospect, but that's another subject.

PDB is correct when he says if it cannot be quantified, measured, bar graphed, or power pointed then it is an item that does not exist or is considered a cost they cannot recover through premium increases and must be eliminated.

I would guess that this is at least the 5th time in my career that the carriers have gone from using independents and a lot of staff to more desk adjusting types. Today though with the incresed technology, massive reliance on computer generated estimates and so much of the management who have spent either limited time or no time in the field, the return of using either staff or ia will be slow in returning for field work. It takes major disasters where the number of qualified people were in short supply along with some very sharp insurance comissioners grilling the carriers as to why did they not physically inspect the losses for what repairs were needed since they are now asking for heafty rate increases.

There will be a need for field inspections as PDB agrees with. The only thing I wonder is if the fee bill will be reduced as the carrier will already have the measurements, cost of materials and labor and they will only need a yes or no to the question as to the disputed damages.