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Admin
547 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2002 : 21:18:16
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| What as a group do you feel we can do to improve future of the Catastrophe Adjuster? Anything? There has been a lot of talk about our future over the last few years but no one has came forward with a plan. We can use this area for brainstorming. |
Roy Cupps -
CatAdjuster.org :: Contact\Feedback :: Adjuster Roster :: Current Forum |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2002 : 22:21:11
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As insurers literally RUN from risks and re-invent worn-out theories of expense control by using questionably trained and motivated "adjuster/contractors", we should see a rapid and wholesale change for the worse due to losses. This instability could make the situation WORSE before it gets better but it should also HASTEN the inevitable return to practicing good business sense.
With G-L policies now containing 1/4 inch thick sections of exclusions, demand for REAL adjusters and REAL roofers can only be a matter of time.
I am working to make sure I let legislators and regulators know that licensing and other roofing industry qualifications need to be made more stringent. Quality adjusters should do the same and encourage friends with horror stories to become outraged at some of the things going on.
If change doesn't come soon enough, there will be a plethora of even worse construction than we have now. As G-L policies dry up, change and become more exclusive, consumers will hopefully demand accountability. They are probably not going to sit still for water leaks and the like. With most preferred provider programs concerning roofing, I have NEVER seen enough expertise among those "low-priced darlings" to really keep insurers "out of the soup" for very long. I have been asked on many occasions, to come in a re-do a poorly done job after a "preferred contractor" is booted from the program.
As more and more subrogation occurs and fewer qualified contractors are willing to do work at low prices and depend on volume to stay successful, many will simply disappear. Some will run from lawsuits and subrogation brought on by reducing the quality to remain profitable. As the programs lose their preferred providers, believe me when I say insurers will be seeking relief in a big way! Consumers will no-doubt be damaged by contractors that have exclusions in their G-L policies. Their attempts to try to do cheap, volume work will have consumers retaining attorneys to pursue the insurers who recommended them since there will be little relief available to them from G-L policies or contractor assets. Then, the house of cards will fall.
I would not blame some of you for crossing over to become public adjusters as carriers dictate unfair compensation for settling claims. At the present time, there is almost NO market for a knowledgeable roofer OR cat adjuster. Our prices, while justified, are deemed by bean counters, to be "too high". When you put 10 hours in on a complicated loss with a difficult insured, you should be paid for it. Likewise, when I see comapnies paying low prices and getting price surveys that include prices from corner-cutting roofers who don't even think it is necessary to change felt, then I know those prices are skewed.
As with all cyclical things, they will soon realize that paying BOTTOM DOLLAR on a LOT of claims is much worse than paying SOMEWHAT MORE or JUST A LITTLE on FEWER claims. Totalling roofs by zip code has never been a smart move. The longer it takes them to realize it, the more I hope they have to spend. If that takes a few of you fighting FOR the insured to prove a point, so be it. When I see a wronged underdog, it is a great feeling to make them whole. In this battle, I take no sides for I see what is happening to the best of the best adjusters is the exact same thing that is happening to the best of the best contractors. There is always somebody who will do not "THE" job but "A" job for less. I'll bet a few more Bill Cook's in the right places and it wouldn't take long to realize they needed to hire you guys back just to keep you from body-slamming several telephone adjusters and contractor/adjusters to the ground every day. Can you imagine the tag-team match a Jim Flynt, Ghost, Alan Jackson and Bill Cook could give a carrier. Oh be quiet, Lon, but if it comes to pay-per-view, call me, I'll buy a ticket! I'm sure it would have to have a STRONG PG rating, eh?
Later |
Lon |
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ChuckDeaton
USA
373 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 09:51:53
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The future of the Cat Adjuster depends on our ability to adapt, anticipate changes in the flow and move and keep anticpating and moving.
The business keeps changing and so must we.
We have to have multiple income streams, as Ghost puts it, driving the septic truck and mowing yards. We have to have equipment and education. We have to pay attention. We have to keep one another informed. We have to try new technology, 802.11b wireless, pen tablets, Distos and the like.
The strong adaptable ones will survive and the rest will go back to roofing and tending desk at a motel. |
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ALANJ
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 10:03:21
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| Crown Weather shows something big for next week. If it hits will the offer be 31k or 25k? Do you want to super size that? Sorry, the adjuster will say, last week I was working at McDonalds. Now I'm a prof. insurance adjuster. I'm sorry to cut this appointment short, I have to be back before 5:00. The Sheriff is kinda tough on us work release adjusters. ( The sound of things to come.) |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 10:13:23
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All you teachers, mentors and pros, I for one and many, many more stand up for what you do or say, To say we are falling apart would be wishful thinking on the part of our common enemy.
I know they would like to divide and have us endentured into their scheme. This is wishful thinking on the part of a few who have sold their deceite to the carriers. Ultmately the carriers are responsible. The powers of some are blinded with low ball bids and the promise of money saved. In a desperate attempt for one upmanship. A vendor who low balls a bid will have to bite the bullet later on. When the trail lawyers, PAs and expert witnesses are through, it will be a wasteland. Some heads will roll, all will wonder happened, where did we go wrong, we only tried to save money. That is what happens to the know nots and know not that they know not have sold theirselves as the salvation of the ins.ind.
LOW BALL BID+LOW BALL WORK= Disaster for Greedy People.
There is very few road signs in insurance and around evey curve there may be a 600 ft drop off.
You pros know the road and I for one will follow your lead and I am sure we got a convoy rolling.
Although not a qualified aduster it is my intention, therefore I have a profound loyalty to those more senior in experience and trying to nurture my education. We may just as brothers do have our spats but I advise, when you come up againt one in this group. Bring along some bandaids and about five gallons of methiolate. I think Crawford has chosen to do this, by the notion that they can insult the intellegence of more than 1500 adjusters here on CADO.
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 10:38:51
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| Sometimes I get on a subject and I am not sure I get the point over. The point I am trying to make , if you feel the way I do stand up, be counted and join ranks, follow those more knowlegable. We have the upper hand our enemy has not chosen to do this. People who are not paid a living wage are not loyal, hate their boss, devise ways to cheat the company and would rat on him in a New York minute. The pendilum is swinging. The next cat will bring on a whole new chapter to this reality series. |
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Lon Sterling
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 10:53:07
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Jim,
Sitting at the table when deals are made won't happen until there is a union. Our state roofing association has tried unsuccessfully to meet with company representatives on many occasions. State Farm had even agreed to take part in a panel discussion at our annual trade show meeting/convention and backed out less than 36 hours before the event, citing legal ramifications. It is amazing how you can always have underwriting, safety and sales reps climbing all over those offers to appear but the guys who decide what to pay you won't come.
Unionization is an EXCELLENT way to combat the upper hand carriers and some vendors hold but it is hard to accomplish. Recent history has not smiled favorably on start-up unions.
Now back when Jimmy Hoffa would have your elbows cracked for breaking ranks or crossing a picket line, they were able to form new chapters well. While Texas has almost no union roofers, I jave heard of other states where non-union roofer disappeared from several story buildings only to be found taking a permanent break on the sidewalk below.
Insurers and vendors know they can find "warm bodies" to come forward even when the best might boycott.
The only thing that might work to a certain extent along those lines would be a work slowdown where the "oncall" adjusters actually show up, get the files, work a few of them and then stop on the same day and refuse ro go back until a bargaining session was completed.
If that were to happen, then each adjuster should have well-documented records of past billing discrepancies and letters from vendors and carriers that unfairly chopped their actual fees or hours.
Judging from some of the Crawford hires I've run across, many can't tell modified bitumen from 90 pound rolled roofing. Bending back one corner can make that determination in a heartbeat. One of my dearest friends has worked staff for Crawford for 12 years. When he left property to do B.I., the quality of a roof claim's scope fell through the floor. I still actually see dimensional shingles written up as three tabs to this day. |
Lon |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 11:18:23
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...And now for a musical interlude...
Let's all sing along!
'Birds do it. Bees do it. Even little bitty fleas do it. Let's do it. Let's organize!
Doctors do it. Lawyers do it. The plumbers and police do it. Let's do it. Let's organize!
Don't let them ever get you dowwwn, let's show them we're the force in towwwn. Let's do it. Let's organize!'
Wasn't that fun, boys and girls?
Really tho, I'd imagine the ones really mad are the other 4 vendors that have had the rug pulled out from under them. If their people don't work, they make no money either. They are thrust into the same cheap leaky boat with the tarbaby from Atlanta. Just because they have less pressure on their overhead expenses than the Crawford bunch doesn't mean they should be penalized for it. This is a desperation move to keep cash flow going into Georgia. I applaud and commend those folks in Louisiana, Alabama, and Colorado that held to their principles and the original contract. And, let's not kid ourselves, in spite of investment flucuations, given the dearth of storms the carriers are suffering from hemaroids from sitting on those overstuffed bankrolls.
...Now for our next number, please join in for the working mans anthem.
'Solidarity forever! Solidarity forever! Solidarity forever, it's time to organize right now!' |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 12:40:36
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| Ok Ghost start the drum roll lets get it done. As I say they do it to one they done to all and as far as I am concerned they done it the other day to you . Your post was humorous and at the same time refleced a lot of serious problems we face. One consulation , ours is not as serious as theirs. The drums are beating and us natives are restless, What ever the plan this rookie is with you guys for what ever action you decide. I think some brows are already wrinkled on the other side and they should be . They have a lot of people PdO and that don't mean paid off. I for one will not work for any one who tries to stiff my friends. My dole checks will keep me in beans and it is a hell of lot more than they pay. They can be smug and not see any thing wrong, all I can say when you go down we'll step over you then we'll throw a party in celebration of your demise. A heck of a way to go.SOLIDARITY!!!!!!!!!!!! A LINE IS DRAWN |
Edited by - Newt on 09/14/2002 12:56:56 |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 14:48:30
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| Well said Jim, and work smarter not harder. |
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Russ
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2002 : 14:55:07
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| The only way we can survive is to be flexible enough to weather the lean times and to understand that we are service providers. Vendors provide us to the Carrier for a cut of the fee. When a Vendor calls and wants us to work nothing, all we can do is say no way! The trouble lies in the fact that they WILL find warm bodies to do these claims. There are a lot of Vendors and all of them have Good Fee Schedules and not so good Fee Schedules. There are a lot of Vendors that have Adjusters making a day rate of $300.00. Its a choice every Adjuster needs to make. We do have a choice in who we work for. Sometimes we dont have a choice when the cupboards bare and the kids need shoes. I have really enjoyed the site the last few weeks. A wealth of good information and training. I think thats our real strength(knowledge). The only way to survive is to do a better job than the staff adjusters, Phone claims adjusters, Preferred Contractors. The technology thats helps us also hurts us. We need Vendors, Theres a lot of good ones and few not so good ones. In the end the Insureds happiness will dictate the course of our Industry. My two cents. Contrary to what some believe, Roy started this site for Cat Adjusters and has always strived to give us a voice and a forum to share information. Who Roy choses to work for is irrelevant to this site and he has never ever used this site to promote any one vendor. Without this site a lot of us wouldnt enjoy the success we have had. Thanks Roy!!! |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2002 : 15:33:38
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Keeping with Roy's theme at the opening of this thread, ".... what is the future of the catastrophe adjuster .... use this area for brainstorming ...."; there was an article in the 09/25 edition of the online Insurance Journal news that may be worthy for study.
To determine a future, a direction, a niche, a value added role; I think you have to examine the past and the present, in an analytical comparative basis. Most "groups", "organizations", entities, and in fact people look at the growth or development of their business or life as they have progressed over the years, and at several "stepping stones" make the necessary changes to adapt and continue to grow.
Well, I am not telling you anything new by saying the "stormtrooper" has lost ground, lost value; from their former stature 3 or 5 and certainly 7 or more years.
Instead of being negative about the current status and all the components that make up that status; why don't you examine "events", and without bias or malice to any of the participants (adjusters, vendors and carriers) try and determine your penetration as a group, and then consider who and why filled the void that you previously held with respect.
Take last weeks Indiana tornados. It is reported that there was over $230M in damage (exclusive of any personal items or commercial inventory), and in Marion County alone there was $29.8M in damage from 282 damaged residential and commercial structures.
Take this event and try as accurately as possible to determine how many "cat adjusters" were deployed and how many claims they were assigned. Then when a fair guess of the balance is determined, try and figure out what "type of claims resources" were utilized to handle that figure.
Excercises like that, if done constructively, may help you as a "group" to determine the "type" of future that exists for the "cat adjuster" and what direction and niche should be pursued. |
Edited by - CCarr on 09/25/2002 15:36:56 |
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TomToll
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2002 : 00:23:05
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Looking back, it's hard to believe that we have lived as long as we have.
As children we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.
Our baby cribs were painted with bright colored lead based paint.
We often chewed on the crib, ingesting the paint. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors, or cabinets, and when we rode our bikes we had no helmets.
We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. We would
spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times we learned to solve the problem. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. We played dodgeball and sometimes the ball would really hurt. We ate
cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar soda, but we were never over weight; we were always outside playing.
Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Some students weren't as smart as others so they failed a grade and were held back to repeat the same grade.
That generation produced some of the greatest risk-takers and problem
solvers. We had the freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.
Perhaps we should visit that person inside us that was able to accomplish so much, without stress nor judgement. Do you think we have gotten to damn smart by becoming adults, after all, some of us are lawyers and politicians.
Some of us lived without air conditioning, inside toilets, and many of our everyday luxuries of today. We lived with mold, open sewage, and DDT. Really, how did we do it. We were kids. Maybe we should go back and visit that little person we were and possibly solve some of our NOW problems. |
Tom Toll |
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wraydecker
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2002 : 15:16:44
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| Gun slingers like us could never unite in a union, but we all could join CADO and encourage our co-workers to do the same. I'm not very "clubby" and I have given Roy hell a couple of times, but this organization is the single best thing I see to improve our lot. |
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AWalker
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 20:58:34
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I have just found this website today, and have found it to be a mixture of feelings for me. I am excited to find such a support group for adjusters and at the same time sobered by the remarks made by so many of the "hard times" we are all facing right now. I have been a claim rep for a few insurance companys, an independant adjuster, and worked in body shops for ten years now. The only thing I know is how to adjust and negotiate and I am not quitting this business. It seems now that the kids have left home, the final frontier in estimating for me is the Cat team. I always looked at them with such awe and respect, but never thought the timing was right. I understand the timing is probably not right for "making a lot of money" but I agree with what a lot of folks were saying in the previous topics like, We need to adapt to change, stay proffesional, and get organized. No I have never been on a Cat team yet but I have survived the resizing of three insurance companies and have managed to keep a steady pay check going in adjusting for ten years and I dont want to stop now. I hope to get some feed back on starting this Cat journey. This sounds like the group I want to be involved with.
Regards and respect,
AWalker |
Amy Walker |
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Ghostbuster
476 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 22:47:55
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| Here's a hint, don't give up your steady paycheck anytime soon. |
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