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ShermaninCO
USA
40 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2003 : 17:14:58
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Maybe the glut of newbie adjusters is due to over inflated $ expectations. I am a newbie but have no illusions about a 'get rich quick' profession. I went out last year, not adjusting, just doing PDR estimates for Allstate, Nationwide and others. I was hooked on the lifestyle, the spontaneity, the travel and the insureds(nice people most) . Since then I have been doing work for a vendor that does nothing but hail and wind losses to fleets, dealerships etc. I started gathering certifications and training as much and as fast as finances allow. I am committed to this profession and do other things to pay for my training. But, I have heard the stories of pretty damn good money being made in a relatively short time frame. Others that hear these stories may not have the experience to differentiate between gross income as a small business owner and a paycheck. Or, that while there are times when the income can be good there is a lot of time sitting around watching the weather channel. I believe these folks are under some pretty unrealistic monetary expectations.
Some realistic numbers so far as days/weeks worked vs. down time, hours per day while working, expenses while deployed, on going business expenses while sitting at home, training cost and income would probably dissuade a lot people that are under misconceptions. I know that income is a touchy subject to discuss, but maybe there is a way that these numbers could be posted anonymously. I’m not sure being new to posting on the forums rather than just lurking.
But with the number of new members and the few that are posting I have to believe there are a lot of newbies out there that might not stay if they knew the truth. I also believe that a lot of the unrealistic numbers that I have heard may be coming from the slash-n-burn adjusters that are giving the IA's a bad name.
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Bill Sherman
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2003 : 18:10:04
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I hear all the "big money" stories too Sherm. I have friends that just jumped the staffer fence and are headed for the pot of gold this year. Right now they are sitting at home sweating, waiting for the call and I'm working.
I know there are a few "top hands" with every vendor that make big bucks and do it every year but its because they are in that "inner circle" and get sent first every time and to every storm they want to work. Being the popular kid on the block has everything to do with how much you bill for the vendor. Lets dont pretend its anything else. Its not cuz you're handsome, not cuz you're friendly, not cuz you write neatly in the log. Vendors are in it for the money, just like adjusters and they send out the good producers, and then only the good producers they like.
If you are a newbie, thats the reality of it. If the money was growing on trees and it was easy to get to, everyone would do this. Good luck to everybody. |
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ShermaninCO
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2003 : 19:16:13
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I to know adjusters that have jumped that fence, and some that have jumped back. I just think that there are a lot of people out there that really bevieve what they are hearing.
I am in a kind of unique situation with the vendor that I have been working with since last July. All my expenses are paid (except beer) and I only work a few days at a site. See my profile for more on this unique situation.
Anyway I just got my 1099's in and made about 10K and worked about 34 days. I spent at about the same number of days in classes and at least twice that amount for training, and I'm still not ready to be handed a claim file. I don't think that people out there trying to get into this realize what it takes. I fortunately do other things to make a living, but this is in my blood. |
Bill Sherman
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rugg
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2003 : 19:20:58
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I concur the money can be very good, however it is a ton of hard work and a lot of slow times. If you are just starting out you better have a strong bank account or be able to support yourself in other ways!
Good Luck |
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CCarr
Canada
1200 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2003 : 19:28:25
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Bill, I think you 'pegged' a big piece of this issue, regarding the apparent rapid influx of new people with no insurance or claims experience to the 'cat world'.
Anyone who has not been in business for themselves, at least for 2 years, nor owned / operated a company as an independent contractor, regardless of profession; will get the wrong impression when they hear someone say they 'made $80K last year'. Yes, the effective tax rate per 1,000 of net income is much lower than a salaried person, however; $80K in gross receipts is no big deal at all, by the time all expenses are taken from that to create a net.
This 'false impression' by people on the sidelines looking to get into this game, is also created when they hear someone coming off an assignment after 4 or 6 weeks, say they 'made $15 or $20K on that gig'. It may well be that after that remark was ingested by the person on the sideline, that that gig was the only one for that adjuster that year, or 1 of only 3 such deployments. At that rate, $60K in gross receipts, would likely produce a net at poverty levels on an annual basis.
The numbers being 'heard', as you say, will be unrealistic, unless they are taken into the proper context on an annual gross basis, subject to a pile of expenses; the majority of which are continuing expenses.
The 'slash-n-burn person' you speak of, is not an adjuster, in my opinion; and when you see and hear one you will recognize that. Their days are numbered, for many reasons, maybe not measured in 1 or 2 months; but they have no longevity. Exposed to this type of person, you will recognize, that they have nothing of value to give to the industry as a whole; and hence, the industry in turn will not favor them in the long run. |
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2003 : 22:07:25
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I believe if you enter this field with your eyes open you can certainly make a good living for you and your family.
In a perfect world we would all get 10 files a week. Average $200 per file. The math is simple 500 claims a year at $200 per file - $100K. That is the goal and attainable, sometimes. Start removing your taxes, all FICA and expenses and you can easily cut that in half. Still not a bad living. We don't often talk about the pay divided by the hours. Still not a bad living, but it can be hard living. Hard on your body, emotions and spiritual life. I LOVE ADJUSTING! But I become more realistic every day. I choose to work near home (regionally). If I can work 30-40 claims a month near home, I'm there.
The best training is your life. Honesty and hard work are the most important.
Everyone always wants to know what classes or test they can take. Here's my 2 cents.
50% of our job is people skills (conflict resolution). 40% reading skills (comprehension and deductive reasoning). Finally, 10% contracting or training. Too many new folks entering this field concentrating on the smallest piece of the pie. Although really the only area you can gauge yourself (tests, etc...) It is the easiest to teach. The people skills and reading skills..... either you have them or you don't. They can be learned but more slowly... These are the reasons, I believe, many attempt to enter our profession but few last.
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Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 06:48:10
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Dadx9 - You said it all in your last paragraph. There are alot of smart people that know the policy and have Norms knowledge of construction and estimatics, but dont have the personality to order lunch without coming across the wrong way.
New folks should look at the last section real hard. Those percentages are right on. We are not building rockets out here. Estimating is the easy part. You have to win the policyholders and service providers confidence to be successful. There's another thread open concerning reopens. People skills play a major roll in that area also.
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Dadx9
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 11:00:04
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Thanks, CD. Although we could discuss the percentages, I believe the basic truth is the 'training' portion is the easiest to learn.
I wrote this response for the many times someone has requested 'the best way' to become an adjuster.
I have taken three of my sons on the road with me, over the years. Usually when they are between 14 & 16. They always help me with the estimating portion without a problem. The teachng of assessing the damage and the handling of people takes more 'hand on'. |
Don
"To be held in the heart of a friend is to be a king."
Bruce Cockburn |
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mshort68
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 11:00:09
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Being one of the Newbies as you call it, I jumped from a staffer to IA for personal reasons. Left the vendor on a good note and I have alot of Cat experience. Haven't worked earthquake, but that is it. I have done my networking and have a good rep. in the Cat arena. If somone is coming off the street, good luck because I just worked with a guy that has been working Cat for three years and the most he has made is 40k and that was last year. When I left, I understood that I may not go out until March or April, but I will go out and make at least twice what I was making and I have no doubts about that. You can say what you want, but I have spoken with many IA's before I made my decision and I can only see positive things ahead.
Remember if you are GOOD and they know it, they would be foolish not to send you out as much as possible. It's all about who you know and how many you can knock out in a day. If you can only do 5 a day this is not the place for you. In my honest opinion. |
The grass is always greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed! |
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Justin
USA
137 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 11:22:58
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mshort68, I disagree with your assessment of "if you can only do 5 a day this is not the place for you." On the average of 5 a day this comes to 150 a month. Anything over this approaches the turn and burn category which may only get you called back to two (2) vendors that I know of. If you are answering all the claiments questions and handling the claim properly then five a day is a proper number. It is almost impossible to maintain over 5 a day for any extended period of time unless of course you are doing all no-claims.
As an admitted newbie you may want to consider changing your expectations on daily volume if you expect to excell in the cat business.
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mshort68
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 11:41:27
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| As someone who has done on a straight down hail storm over a period of 6 months, 9 to 10 a day as a staffer, I know what I can do. Working ice claims all over the south, I have averaged 8 to 9. It's all about being coordination and having a set routine. That's just the way it is. Now I understand that you get into 40k claims and that slows you down, but the average claims I'm talking about were 2 to 3k. I'm only a newbie in the since that I just became an IA. |
The grass is always greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed! |
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Newt
USA
657 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 13:14:29
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"Expect Nothing and Ye Shall Not Be Dissapointed" I'm kidding of course. I have scratched my head and wondered why I am trying so hard to get into this adjusting business. For one thing , I may loose money after taxes.
If I make 30k a year I will be penalized over 10k off the top.
My only way out is a plan to work for expenses. Sort of puts a kink in the idea of getting rich. My motive is being productive at something I like, working with people, helping where I can. I like travel and adventure, and adjusting is an adventure, I hope.
As far as five a day, I think that would be possible on PDR, and even more. HO claims, I can't imagine over five claims, even small ones.
I have practiced doing imaginary clams at this desk and believe me, I am slow. Thats ideal conditions, not dealing with the customer, no travel and not having to dig for info or lugging equipment around. Up front I would have to tell the vendor, I cant turn them out fast, but they will be right and well documented. Productivity comes with experience and I don't have that yet, so If they don't give me as many claims, that will be fine with me. I gotta learn to walk before I can fly. |
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KileAnderson
USA
875 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 16:44:20
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| mshort, what are you doing when you do 9-10 a day. Do you scope, write the estimate, issue the draft and close the claim on the first visit on all 9 or 10. Because to me it seems a bit impossible to do all of that on each claim in less than an hour per claim. That doesn't include drive time, bathroom break, time for returning phone calls and making appointments for the following day. I have had days when I have done 8 or 9 inspections in a day. But there is now way that I could do that every day for a week much less 6 months as you said. And I really don't see how you could average 9 a day on ice claims because most of those have interior damage and you have to actually have an insured home to get inside and there is no way that I could ever answer all questions and explain all coverages to an insured and do the scoping and estimating in less than an hour. And I consider myself to be pretty fast. |
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CatDaddy
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 17:27:28
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Kile, I have worked many cats with mshort. Hes fast. Now certainly his numbers vary for the types of losses and extent of damage. When hes doing 10 a day, its straight down hail with no interior, but he is certainly a producer. Top five at every cat he goes to. People who are out there doing 5 to 6 a day are certainly doing well. That's better than average but I have to tell you, and I do not want to offend anyone, I am just telling you what I know for a fact, there are people who do that in a staight down hail storm before 11am every day. I can name 10 I know. And please dont start with the "turn and burn" stuff cause the people I know who turn those types of numbers have great files. IAs and the staffers. Not to say they are perfect all the time but neither is the persons files who dones 5 or 6 a day. It is ALL about planning your work. I dont know how many times I have to say it but thats it.
The turn and burners are the ones who turn the numbers given to then as quickly as possible and try to get paid and exit the cat site before the reopens start coming in and management starts seeing what a crappy job they did. I say shoot those folks in the head. They hurt everybody.
Now I am not trying to start a war about speed and its relationship to quality closed files. I know for some it is hard to swallow but Im hear to tell ya people like that are out there. You dont have to be one to be successful but its just something else people are up against. |
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mshort68
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 17:28:28
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| All about planning and time efficiency. Answer calls at night and billing at night. Out of the 9 to 10. 80% first contact settled and closed the same day. Not impossible when you are prepared and have all the confidence. If you first contact, the phone calls are few and far between. On straight down hail, you shouldn't be there anymore than 40 minutes with a check in hand to the PH. Ice claim no more than 1 hour. |
The grass is always greener on the other side, but it still has to be mowed! |
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JimF
USA
1014 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2003 : 20:45:46
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CatDaddy, you mentioned that you could name 10 adjusters who can 'do' (I assume you also mean 'close') 10 straight down hail claims per day before 11 AM and do it consistently day after day. You also suggested these 10 are not among nor known as turn and burn adjusters.
We as cat adjusters all operate in a fairly small fraternity, so pursuant to your offer, please name your 10 adjusters and let's see if anyone around here knows or has run into them.
Thanks for your offer. I accept on behalf of the many others here who would like to know as well. |
Edited by - JimF on 02/11/2003 21:27:12 |
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Is the glut of newbies due high$ expectations?
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